Comments on: Profiling in the name of identity http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/ Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sbu http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-100820 Sbu Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:48:11 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-100820 I would like to believe that the need for one to identify oneself is there and exists for purposes as diverse as the languages of the world. Profiling, on the hand, does not revolve around an individual but the group, and if conducted for suspect reasons the outcome will always be unsavoury, like Kizito has relayed. Take the South African case where we have a past that blocked a certain part of the population from economic participation, and in our efforts to create equal opportunity, we opted to pass laws that will ensure that the previously excluded are now included. How then do we track progress? This would then highlight that it is too early (in SA) “too look at the next person as a human being...” if we are to achieve equality, does this not necessitate profiling? The story of the people of Israel and it’s unfortunate idea that God is ok with (slavery, etc) certain people being superior to others feeds rather disgustingly into these “ineluctable manifestations of the appalling human relations” as these relationships were largely influenced by the Good Book. God chose the Israelites as the rightful beneficiaries of Canaan, the Zulu would tell other tribes that about KZN, South Africans the same to “Amakwerekwere” (Apologies), etc and so forth. I would like to believe that the need for one to identify oneself is there and exists for purposes as diverse as the languages of the world. Profiling, on the hand, does not revolve around an individual but the group, and if conducted for suspect reasons the outcome will always be unsavoury, like Kizito has relayed.

Take the South African case where we have a past that blocked a certain part of the population from economic participation, and in our efforts to create equal opportunity, we opted to pass laws that will ensure that the previously excluded are now included. How then do we track progress? This would then highlight that it is too early (in SA) “too look at the next person as a human being…” if we are to achieve equality, does this not necessitate profiling?

The story of the people of Israel and it’s unfortunate idea that God is ok with (slavery, etc) certain people being superior to others feeds rather disgustingly into these “ineluctable manifestations of the appalling human relations” as these relationships were largely influenced by the Good Book. God chose the Israelites as the rightful beneficiaries of Canaan, the Zulu would tell other tribes that about KZN, South Africans the same to “Amakwerekwere” (Apologies), etc and so forth.

]]> By: Kizito Okechukwu http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-100003 Kizito Okechukwu Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:12:44 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-100003 Stepping my foot on South African soil on February 2006, I headed to commence my educational carrier in KZN precisely Merrivale. Few weeks in School, i found myself wanting in denying my identity as a Nigerian simply because I was detained unreasonably for 5hours at the airport and the prejudice that filled my institution about nigerians left me no choice so i claimed to be American or Ghanian in different circumstances. After one month, I retraced my stand and prouded myself as a nigerian engaging few mates on dialogues and dangers of generalisation. Glancing through the Page 12 of the November 1,2009 Sunday times, i read how John Dludlu experienced unpleasant task of proving to the Department of Home Affairs that he is South African by birth after an anonymous allegation was made that he fraudulently obtained a South African identity. Page 4 of the November 3, 2009 capetimes news also proved how a South African teenager committed suicide after a fruitless job hunt after a long wait for his identity document at the home affairs. The Cape provincial speaker-Shahid Esau made matters worse by threatening to replace the "too many black women" staffers at the legislature with "boere"-white men. Of course, he did apologise but this reveals how we've been buried in our hostility and prejudice Good work Doc, thanks for the remarkable difference by elaborating and creating awareness on these issues. Stepping my foot on South African soil on February 2006, I headed to commence my educational carrier in KZN precisely Merrivale. Few weeks in School, i found myself wanting in denying my identity as a Nigerian simply because I was detained unreasonably for 5hours at the airport and the prejudice that filled my institution about nigerians left me no choice so i claimed to be American or Ghanian in different circumstances. After one month, I retraced my stand and prouded myself as a nigerian engaging few mates on dialogues and dangers of generalisation.
Glancing through the Page 12 of the November 1,2009 Sunday times, i read how John Dludlu experienced unpleasant task of proving to the Department of Home Affairs that he is South African by birth after an anonymous allegation was made that he fraudulently obtained a South African identity.
Page 4 of the November 3, 2009 capetimes news also proved how a South African teenager committed suicide after a fruitless job hunt after a long wait for his identity document at the home affairs.
The Cape provincial speaker-Shahid Esau made matters worse by threatening to replace the “too many black women” staffers at the legislature with “boere”-white men. Of course, he did apologise but this reveals how we’ve been buried in our hostility and prejudice
Good work Doc, thanks for the remarkable difference by elaborating and creating awareness on these issues.

]]> By: Sarah Henkeman http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99676 Sarah Henkeman Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:14:40 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99676 Well Dr Gumede, you definitely set the example w.r.t. treating others as human. You are very inclusive and friendly to commentators of all descriptions (when you still had time to comment on comments). Anything that has been constructed, can be undone and reconstructed. Identity is a social and political construction. It can be undone. It can be replaced with a focus on common humanity - for the common good. I choose to believe that. Well Dr Gumede, you definitely set the example w.r.t. treating others as human. You are very inclusive and friendly to commentators of all descriptions (when you still had time to comment on comments).

Anything that has been constructed, can be undone and reconstructed. Identity is a social and political construction. It can be undone. It can be replaced with a focus on common humanity – for the common good. I choose to believe that.

]]> By: Gcino http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99587 Gcino Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:04:01 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99587 Thoughts often lead to action or words. Words can also lead into action. If we think we'll never overcome racism, then we probably won't but if we think we can, we'll talk the talk and eventually walk the talk. In the case of SA many people just need healing, serious healing and an end to the intergenerational transfer of racism! And xenophobia! It's all ignorance really! All great challenges need a little bit of faith and positive action. When it comes to the US/UK vs Arab/ Muslim issue I think it's not even about racism, it's just a sad fight betweeen the East/West over who gets to control the wolrd's oil and water. Thoughts often lead to action or words. Words can also lead into action. If we think we’ll never overcome racism, then we probably won’t but if we think we can, we’ll talk the talk and eventually walk the talk. In the case of SA many people just need healing, serious healing and an end to the intergenerational transfer of racism! And xenophobia! It’s all ignorance really! All great challenges need a little bit of faith and positive action. When it comes to the US/UK vs Arab/ Muslim issue I think it’s not even about racism, it’s just a sad fight betweeen the East/West over who gets to control the wolrd’s oil and water.

]]> By: Paul Hoffman http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99585 Paul Hoffman Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:54:57 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99585 Hi Vusi, If globalization leads to all of us in this small corner of the earth regarding ourselves as human beings first, Africans second, South Africans third and so on, then some progress towards breaking the vicious cycle of profiling may be made. Our Bill of Rights lists "human dignity" right after the right to life in the line up of guaranteed rights. Through education, education and more education we may some day learn that according human dignity to all - "do as you would be done by" - is the way toward that non-racial non-sexist nirvana of which our Constitution speaks so bravely and so boldly. It is certainly worth striving for, especially as the alternatives are all so exceedingly unpalatable. Paul Hoffman www.ifaisa.org. Hi Vusi,

If globalization leads to all of us in this small corner of the earth regarding ourselves as human beings first, Africans second, South Africans third and so on, then some progress towards breaking the vicious cycle of profiling may be made. Our Bill of Rights lists “human dignity” right after the right to life in the line up of guaranteed rights. Through education, education and more education we may some day learn that according human dignity to all – “do as you would be done by” – is the way toward that non-racial non-sexist nirvana of which our Constitution speaks so bravely and so boldly. It is certainly worth striving for, especially as the alternatives are all so exceedingly unpalatable.
Paul Hoffman
http://www.ifaisa.org.

]]> By: Martin http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99582 Martin Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:33:02 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99582 I found your article articulate and interesting but I was hoping you would address the phenomena of black South Africans hating black foreigners (Makwerekwere). Or don't you regard this as racist profiling? By only giving examples of white originated racism without counterbalancing your article with other "profiling" is in itself an example of profiling. Unfortunately the profile created is one of continuing as a "Victim" which I don't think you are. I found your article articulate and interesting but
I was hoping you would address the phenomena of black South Africans hating black foreigners (Makwerekwere).
Or don’t you regard this as racist profiling?
By only giving examples of white originated racism without counterbalancing your article with other “profiling” is in itself an example of profiling.
Unfortunately the profile created is one of continuing as a “Victim” which I don’t think you are.

]]> By: Justin http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99489 Justin Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:44:53 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99489 Excellent article, Vusi. I think that most liberal whites in SA don't have empathy for those black fellow citizens living in poverty, merely sympathy. It is important for those better off to understand that adolescents of poor families have the same dreams, desires,love of family, fears and hopes as theirs. It is somehow the harnessing and fulfilling of these dreams rather than the dashing that will change society (both the rich and poor) into being more tolerant and crime fee Excellent article, Vusi.
I think that most liberal whites in SA don’t have empathy for those black fellow citizens living in poverty, merely sympathy. It is important for those better off to understand that adolescents of poor families have the same dreams, desires,love of family, fears and hopes as theirs. It is somehow the harnessing and fulfilling of these dreams rather than the dashing that will change society (both the rich and poor) into being more tolerant and crime fee

]]> By: Mzi Ndelemane http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99485 Mzi Ndelemane Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:15:18 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99485 Racism is an old things dates back in the Old Testament in the Bible in the book of Genesis when Moses married an African woman and has gone through out the ages even shows up in the Shakespearean era( The Moroccan prince/king in the merchant of venice).Racism and tribalism is a human trait that will never be wiped and all we can do try to be diplomatic about it.Everything bad is always associated with black ,we are called black people,we have black sheep,the black market you name it its associated with black and white doves are associated with peace and on the contrary black people have always complained about being called names in the new South Africa,question has anyone ever asked a white man how he feels like when he's called umlungu or an indian man when he's called ikula or ugobongwane .Black men moans and complains everyday of the racial prejudice shown towards but has he ever thought of how the other people feel when he calls them all sorts names. Racism is an old things dates back in the Old Testament in the Bible in the book of Genesis when Moses married an African woman and has gone through out the ages even shows up in the Shakespearean era( The Moroccan prince/king in the merchant of venice).Racism and tribalism is a human trait that will never be wiped and all we can do try to be diplomatic about it.Everything bad is always associated with black ,we are called black people,we have black sheep,the black market you name it its associated with black and white doves are associated with peace and on the contrary black people have always complained about being called names in the new South Africa,question has anyone ever asked a white man how he feels like when he’s called umlungu or an indian man when he’s called ikula or ugobongwane .Black men moans and complains everyday of the racial prejudice shown towards but has he ever thought of how the other people feel when he calls them all sorts names.

]]> By: Hugh http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99478 Hugh Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:12:26 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99478 Small start - when you start talking about a person (or persons) avoid mentioning their ethnics, often irrelevant any way. You will find yourself seeing them as just people instead of "them" Small start – when you start talking about a person (or persons) avoid mentioning their ethnics, often irrelevant any way.
You will find yourself seeing them as just people instead of “them”

]]> By: Cornwell http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-99473 Cornwell Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:11:58 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/vusigumede/2009/10/30/profiling-in-the-name-of-identity/#comment-99473 "...8 years experience in blah..blah..blah..". When is this pathetic racist propaganda going to end in the seemingly 'new' S.A. I am begining to think the labour ministry, whichever dept this concerns is failing in observing the essence of BEE and supporting the aspirations of potential black professionals. The unreasonble demand for so much years of experience has ensured aspiring black professionals like us, of have spent the last decade permeating into the extremely restritive pro-apartheid career stratum, have now to spend another decade looking for( or struggling to) a decent job “…8 years experience in blah..blah..blah..”. When is this pathetic racist propaganda going to end in the seemingly ‘new’ S.A. I am begining to think the labour ministry, whichever dept this concerns is failing in observing the essence of BEE and supporting the aspirations of potential black professionals. The unreasonble demand for so much years of experience has ensured aspiring black professionals like us, of have spent the last decade permeating into the extremely restritive pro-apartheid career stratum, have now to spend another decade looking for( or struggling to) a decent job

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