Comments on: ‘Soweto drag race was murder’

By: tzME

tzME — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:14:58 +0000

Michael.. the anger expressed by all sectors of our community…(such a pity that such HORROR should bring people together)….makes your legal assessment of the ‘murder charge’ somewhat reassuring to those seeking the most severe punishment……HOWEVER…. Where does one draw the line?…Do I demand an attempted murder charge for a bumper bashing? OR I have a blown headlight bulb…or a slightly worn tyre that seems acceptable to the driver cos he did not measure the millimetres of tread he had left and knowingly put the car on the road…the involuntary reaction to avoid a dog that crossed the road that led to an argument with a light pole that killed his own in the passenger seat?
My concern is that they may get away with it on a technicality. Is it not possible for the bench, on a charge of Culpable homicide, to assess the degree of “dont care’ recklessness, blatant disregard for the law, and awareness of the possible dire consequences to sentence those responsible on a case to case basis and sentence appropriately, even to ‘life inprisonment’? Or is there a limit to a sentence for Culpable Homicide…OR has it become ‘habit’ to pass a sentence as light as has been ‘traditionally’ perceived?… Has the law become too reliant on ‘precedence”. We know no Judge likes to lose on appeal (ego?) but should someone not set the precedence of a truly trend setting culpable homicide sentencing?

tzME

By: Michael Trapido

Michael Trapido — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:40:06 +0000

Kit the time has come for those who kill people while driving under the influence to be charged with murder as a matter of course.

The fact that this prosecutor has elected to go with it demonstrates that it is competent BUT unusual.

I believe that if a conviction is obtained and an appeal entered then it will focus the minds of our courts on finally dealing with the morons who kill people on our roads while drunk.

EVERYONE knows that if you drive drunk you could land up in an accident and kill people. Yet despite the terrible statistics they keep on doing it.

If Jub Jub is convicted of murder you’ll be amazed how that focuses people’s minds.

The law does not operate in a vacuum it draws from the society it seeks to regulate.

Our society desperately needs to clamp down on road fatalities many of which are down to drunk drivers.

By: Kit

Kit — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:53:02 +0000

‘Prosecutor’: whilst ordinarily being high on drugs would seem to preclude intention, there is plenty of case law to show that taking drugs before doing something (e.g. to loosen inhibition or having put oneself in a position whilst not under the influence to know that you are going to inevitably commit a crime) does not preclude intention – just that the intention is at an earlier phase of the process, thus even at a stretch leading to a premeditated action.

I’m interested in the idea of a murder charge in a road accident case at all – Michael, is there precedent for it where the case involves an accident rather than deliberate and clear intention to drive over someone?

‘Prosecutor”s second point refers directly to this: if a murder conviction is secured, in theory one could start extending it to other forms of accident, e.g. where a hypothetical person (there are thousands of them out drinking right now) go out to drink, alone in the car or for example to a braai with the kids, knowing that their only mode of transportation home is their own car, driven by themselves. Premeditated murder would be an interesting charge to apply to such.

It’s not a remote chance that you’re going to kill someone when driving drunk. It’s a clear and obvious possibility and one to which our thousand friends already reconciled themselves earlier this evening.

By: Panchetta

Panchetta — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:23:59 +0000

Sorry Traps – The prosecution will have great difficulty in proving INTENTION to murder. Will not happen, and if you suppress the emotion of anger for a moment, you will come to realise this.

You are an attorney and I am not, but I will confidently bet real money on this.

By: Michael Trapido

Michael Trapido — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:27:31 +0000

Just a few points :

1. Dolus Eventualis is INTENTION not Negligence. Please read the article in full.

2. Culp is a competent verdict on a Murder charge so nobody is getting off simply because you can’t prove murder.

3. In terms of those who kill people while drunk I would defintely charge them with murder. If you can’t foresee that people may die because you are driving drunk you shouldn’t have a license.

4. To the guy who says that in trying to get out of the path of the oncoming vehicle the mini crashed into the other Mini so it must be an accident you obviously have not thought about it.

Dolus Eventualis says if while carrying out this act (a drag race) you foresee (as any sane human would)that someone could get killed and carry on regardless then that is considered intent not negligence when the result occurs.

The fact that you could not have foreseen the exact way that it would play out is irrelevant.

5. The reason we highlight murders or some murders is to call attention to it so others will think twice before doing the same thing.

In this case reckless driving in South Africa cannot be highlighted enough our death toll is disgusting.

By: Prosecutor

Prosecutor — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:52:50 +0000

Traps, one problem with the murder charge in this case is the fact that the perps were both apparently high on drugs at the time. Whilst this is clearly no excuse, it may well be sufficient to provide reasonable doubt as to their subjective intention at the time of the “accident”.

It could of course be argued that taking drugs when knowing you are going to drive is in itself, at least ppotentially, an act of murder, but in reality the foreseeability of this result is probably too remote.

Perhaps the anwer to our abysmal road safety record in not so much to change the offence, but rather to not shy away from giving custodial sentences for vehicular culp. That responsibility lies largely in the hands of the courts.

Secondly, the cops need to act more decisively in combatting ALL forms of reckless driving, rather than squatting in the buses with their radar guns. That way, perhaps the potential offenders might actually learn their lesson BEFORE they kill someone!

By: Panchetta

Panchetta — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:09:54 +0000

Kit has got it right. It also occurred to me that a murder charge may eventuate in a favorable ending for the accused.

By: Marz

Marz — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:49:56 +0000

It is just strange how this has become a big story only because it ended up in the media. 100′s of murders happen in SA everyday, What I find most strange is that how people make big stories out of surten murders, Murder is murder

By: Tlanch Tau

Tlanch Tau — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:33:49 +0000

I disagree with all that says that these guys should be charged with murder. None of them planned this and it was a “freak accident”, that’s all. Can any of us prove that they were actually racing? They might have been drunk and intoxicated, but does that meant they were racing?

Yes this is painfull as innocent lives were lost, but in reality this is just culpable homicide and in most cases people don’t get arrested for that. And also what is the use in having an up and coming star behind bars?

By: Kit

Kit — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:07:48 +0000

Dolus eventualis applied to a road accident death? Is this somehow legally worse than your usual suspect who goes out in his car for the night, knowing he’s going to get cold drunk, but fails to make any arrangement to get home because he knows he’s going to drive anyway and won’t care?

I don’t see this murder charge standing up personally and think that this is the cunning eye of the needle through which they will be acquitted.

Culpable homicide would have put them both away straight up. Couple with permanent suspension of licences and fair restitution through the civil courts (bearing in mind that these are late teenagers with school records who would likely support families, etc.). That should safely reduce the pair of them to size when they emerge.

No matter what the charge, these kids won’t be brought back, but justice must be done – a murder charge looks good until it fails.