Comments on: How serious is the ANC on crime?

By: Peter Win

Peter Win — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:24:58 +0000

Sarah,
Actually I know a lot about Australia and New Zealand. I have a lot of relatives there and have spent a lot of time there myself. This causes me to seriously question the website on equality you posted. NZ is probably one of the most socialist, equitable environments (except perhaps Sweden and Denmark) that I have ever come across.

Huge differences too in comparison with SA. In NZ no-one starves: everyone has access to health and a social-net. Crime is low, Police (by comparison) are well paid, incorruptible and efficient. Hospital services run well.

Sure the rich are “implicated” – especially if they support corruption. NZ has a democracy that is accountable. In SA, we haven’t had an accountable democracy for 50 years…

If we need to start somewhere, it’s here: accountability and jobs.

Forget De Kock: start with Zuma. Is he going to be incorruptible or not ? Will he drive out a culture of accountability ? This will shape our culture in moving forward.

By: James Tobias

James Tobias — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:56:37 +0000

Crime is everyone’s business much less the “experts”.
My concern is the silence this topic has induced from the usual vociferous cross-section of the M&G community.

By: Sarah Henkeman

Sarah Henkeman — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:13:13 +0000

@James – unfortunately M&G don’t offer the option to be notified of activity on an old blog. Hope you eardrums recover soon.

You clearly have a perspective – why don’t you weigh in – or don’t you agree that crime is everybody’s business? Still trusting the ‘experts’ only and the convenience of dealing with symptoms?

By: Sarah Henkeman

Sarah Henkeman — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:43:53 +0000

Sorry for my convoluted sentence above. Its clearer to say: ‘poverty is not the only symptom of inequality’… I clarify my thinking as I go along (-_-)

By: James Tobias

James Tobias — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:42:56 +0000

…..the deafening silence?

By: Sarah Henkeman

Sarah Henkeman — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:35:51 +0000

@Peter Win – great irony whether its intended or not. There’s no argument against dealing with symptoms – its only a problem if the causes, correlates and facilitators of crime are ignored. Anyway, to bolster my argument w.r.t. inequality, here’s a website showing evidence of 30 years of research http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why

… so yes, it is much simpler if we deal with complexity without tripping over semantics. Inequality has more symptoms than poverty and sometimes a combination of the symptoms interact to carve a pathway into crime. That’s why the rich are also implicated.

By: Peter Win

Peter Win — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:47:30 +0000

Sarah,
Surely it’s simple ? Crime because of poverty and poor policing and no social net and corrupt officials…

Solution: a strong, self-policing independant judiciary, a strong incorruptible police-force (with lots of man-power)and jobs.

Start a minimum wage job regime like during the great depression… Build infrastructure… And start with ensuring corrupt politicians receive 10 years hard labour and are banned from any managerial position ever again.

Take a look at Zim, our mirror. It’s too late when the corrupt politicians start talking in terms of racial targets to divert attention… SA’s problem is not one of race or relative wealth: it’s about jobs and building wealth for all.

By: Sarah Henkeman

Sarah Henkeman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:54:39 +0000

By the way Grant, I am far more tentative in my approach – it is a function of uncertainty befitting the subject matter. Experts have misled us so spectacularly in the past – because of that thing called ‘certainty’ and the ability to speak with confidence.

I envy the certainty of your position and the confidence with which you express it. In addition, the unquestioning assumption that everyone has a panic button to press in your ‘simple’ example for my benefit, reveals more about you than it does about my intellectual ability.

By: Sarah Henkeman

Sarah Henkeman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:36:47 +0000

@Grant Walliser. There’s a world of difference between ‘prevention’, ‘management’, and ‘control’ of crime, and all these are hotly contested. The peacebuilding notion of conflict transformation on the other hand, suggests that we need to give more attention to trying to understand and dealing with root & proximate causes of crime. Failing which, we will always need to ‘manage & control’. The latter remains within the domain of the expert/specialist and the former makes it everybody’s business.

So don’t you think we should be spending more time and money on eradicating inequality? It will definitely not eradicate crime, i don’t know if anything will; but it will certainly drastically reduce violent crime (if the literature is to be believed) and therefore the need for armed protection.

By: Grant Walliser

Grant Walliser — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:34:43 +0000

White refugee – semantics. Either nobody in charge has a clue or they have no will or both. End result is the same.

What city? 77% of what crime. Why did it drop? If you think that crime is not related to poverty juxtaposed with pockets of extreme wealth catalised by the Apartheid system to stir up the resentment then you must have one hell of a new theory and I would love to hear it.