One of the sources of great pride to most South Africans is the presence among us of the Zulu nation. At once loyal and courageous this band of brothers took on the might of the British Empire during the 19th century with primitive weaponry and never gave ground.
As such their prowess as a great warrior nation has earned world renown.
From the great Shaka kaSenzangakhona to our current King Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu they have been respected by the British, the apartheid regime and the ANC even when the Zulus were not in effective control of the highest offices in the land.
No matter who it was that held power at the time, they always sought to obtain the blessing of the Zulu kings and their followers in order to facilitate an easier passage. As South Africans we may well remember the time that Jeppe Hostel and others became the focal point of hostilities because the Zulus believed that they were being shafted. Just as the British at the time of Shaka and many after them, the people of Gauteng found out that vastly outnumbering the Zulus doesn’t mean that victory is yours — not by any means.
Theirs is a wonderful culture which marries traditional beliefs regarding their ancestors and Christianity. Everything from clothing to the wedding ceremony marks them out as an individual group which proudly hands down its ways from generation to generation.
Numbering 11 million plus — the bulk of whom (about 8 million) are located in KwaZulu-Natal — the Zulus are very much at the centre of power in South Africa today. Though Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi was appointed as minister of home affairs in the post-apartheid government it was only upon the inauguration of Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma (born April 12 1942) as the president of South Africa, that the Zulu nation could finally claim that they had finally occupied the most powerful office in the land.
Accordingly the Zulu nation as part of South Africa and indeed the world community enjoys a respect far beyond their numbers.
It is well-deserved.
Unfortunately there are times when their culture and those of others are going to clash. Yesterday was one such occasion when the annual umkhosi wokweshwama ceremony raised the hackles of animal-rights groups who believe that the method of killing the bull constitutes animal cruelty.
As most are aware this issue landed up before the Pietermaritzburg High Court, which ordered that the ritual be allowed to proceed.
The king was outraged and told those present yesterday that it was “despicable” to suggest that Zulus had no respect for animal rights and a “wonderful” ritual would not be spoiled by people who “claim to know our culture more than we do”.
According to a report by Nathi Olifant on IOL 30 warriors caught the raging bull as it ran around the Enyokeni royal palace. Barehanded, the warriors wrestled the bull to the ground and smothered the bellowing creature. It took about 20 minutes for the bull to die.
Unfortunately that has to constitute animal cruelty of the worst kind and as much as I respect Zulu culture it can never be condoned. An animal being chased by 30 men who kill it in what must have been an agonising 20 minutes of horrendous proportions, is so horrific that it almost defies description.
I accept that there are thousands of examples of animal cruelty in other cultures ranging from battery hens and clubbing seals to whaling and shooting wild animals for sport.
They receive the same rebuke as this does and lend no support to the Zulu argument I’m afraid.
Thought the king might believe that opposition to the ritual it is a slight on Zulu culture, it is not. Yes people do not know the culture as well as the practitioners thereof but that is not necessary to understand when an act of cruelty — which this clearly is — has occurred.
As stated above, Zulu culture and traditions are held in high esteem the world over but like every culture there are parts which other cultures find difficult to accept and this is definitely one of them.
As always a form of compromise can be found without anyone being offended.
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78 Responses to “As much as I respect Zulu culture, ukweshwama can never be condoned”
[…] Thought Leader » Michael Trapido » As much as I respect Zulu culture, ukweshwama can never be cond… www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/12/06/no-bull-at-zulu-ritual – view page – cached One of the sources of great pride to most South Africans is the presence among us of the Zulu nation. At once loyal and courageous this band of brothers took on the might of the British Empire during… Read moreOne of the sources of great pride to most South Africans is the presence among us of the Zulu nation. At once loyal and courageous this band of brothers took on the might of the British Empire during the 19th century with primitive weaponry and never gave ground. View page […]
Traps, you sound like a traditional praise singer before you get to the actual point. It gives you just some idea of how we have to circle around the truth over and over again, before we’re prepared to plunge the spear in. Many are so tired of doing this.
On the farm we used to slaughter a bull every year. Not sure why this one took 20 minutes. Ours used to be over in seconds. We had one guy who used to somehow knock the bull out. Then the other guys would slit the throat and capture the blood in gerry cans.
After that guy left my dad was asked to shoot the bull, despite it all being a big zulu function with dancing and drums etc. So 40 years ago it was acceptable to shoot the bull.
Our bulls were never raging bulls either. Quite docile. They just stood there, probably because no one made them angry.
Spain - Pamplona bull run
New Zealand - Throwing dead rabbits
China - Cooking fish alive amongst other things
Canada - Clubbing baby seals
Japan - killing whales
Europe - Dumping toxic waste on the coast of Africa + depleting fish off the african coast.
I could go on Mr. Trapido. There are more important things to highlight than attack this deeply sensitive issue. I think there are more pertinent issues at play in modern South Africa that a man of your talents could help illuminate. As an African this sort of discussion wears thin, especially with the major powers failing to come to agreement on saving the Earth itself. Meanwhile you want to browbeat Zulus over the death of a single cow. You could learn to pick your fights.
Warriors? Respect for animals?
These are naive fools who are being taught how to be violent. How not care to about causing pain and terror to others.
And that violence goes far beyond the innocent animals. It explodes into violence against women and children. Informal settlements and leafy suburbs alike.
I wonder if the weakest bull was chosen for this occasion lest one of the so-called “warriors” be injured or killed?
There is something inaccurate about the statement below:
‘Just as the British at the time of Shaka and many after them, the people of Gauteng found out that vastly outnumbering the Zulus doesn’t mean that victory is yours — not by any means.’
Natal only became a British Colony post the Shakan era. In 1846 to be precise. This was more than a decade since the assassination of Shaka in 1828.
Our courts have now held that the “cultural” practice of traditional circumcisio cannot be forced upon an unwilling participant.
Culture is one thing, but there are certain standards and values that rise above individual cultures.
this should be an objective question concerning the level of cruelty involved.
I agree, this is not an attack on Zulu culture - it is an attack on cruelty. If the act is found to be unreasonably cruel, then the Zulu culture proponents should amend the practice, or openly defend cruelty. Don’t fudge it.
When weighing the killing of the bull as part of a
cultural tradition,one cannot escape the question why that particular tradition has not changed/transformed with time.We South Africans live,trade and play sport in the 21st century and are,whether we like it or not,very much in the spotlight in this southern corner of the global village.
When culture is universally recognised and respected as the primary driver of the code of ethics that determine the morals of a people,the killing of a bull barehandedly,can so easily be perceived as a barbaric act(in 21st century context)committed by people whose culture has stagnated to remain classified as primitive by every enlightened human being(regardless of race).
This perception cannot be divorced from the fact that South Africa is governed by defenders of this cultural practice.
In NZ the thrown rabbit is already shot dead. Rabbits are a verminous pest there, remember — like rats. And the competitors in the rabbit-throwing sport pitch these dead bunnies into a rubbish skip for transport to a safe disposal site. After all, a dead rabbit can’t hop into a rubbish skip all by itself. The bunny-toss organisers turn work into happy play.
Traps we will not bow down to your idealogies,I await a column on why white people fish,hunt trophies,leash their pets,boil living crayfish,schulk and swallow oysters for fun and why this animal rights group pays no attention to these matters.
I would be quite happy to see Goodwill running around for his life while 30 bulls jump on him - I’m sure the reciprocation would be considered slightly more cruel. Tradition is 1 thing but moronic following of custom is quite another. If Indians for example hadn’t evolved to stop the tradition that wives should throw themselves on their husband’s funeral pyres, their country and culture would be in a quite different place. Tradition is NOT something static unless that culture is dead.
@Mmpofini - you just dont get it do you !!! He said all over the world animal rights groups try to end animal abuse and this one is just another one of those that needs to be stopped. It is violent and ghastly and what does this instil in young boys - the raging violence we have in the country
The herd mentality of writers on thought leadership in choosing topics and viewpoints that are irrelevant knows no bounds. Traps, this topic and your viewpoint was covered by your colleague SD.
Both of you profess to respect cultural rights but inject your cultural imperialism by equating this ritual with animal cruelty. Your styles are the same. First, appear well informed and nuanced, then conclude with the opposite viewpoint that you introduced the topic with.
I am not sure if that practice of writing is an attempt to appear objective and balanced to you possible audience? But it fails miserably because the introduction contradicts the conclusion. It is trying to please everybody. What it does positively achieve is a controversial debate that leads to more reads and commentary by your audience. Making you popular bloggers without good substance in your arguments.
To be original, why has anyone in Thought Leader not tackled the story last week about the station commissioner at the Ga-Rankuwa police station who opened a case of crimen injuria against her neighbour and his son after they pointed a gun at her in a dispute over a rugby ball that landed in her yard.
A neighbour pointing a gun to another neighbour is more inhumane than a bull being killed barehanded. Through you selection of topics you display that you value animal rights more importantly than human rights, respect and good neighbourliness.
Lets look at potential solutions rather than stirring the pot in an easily polarised country like South Africa.
Cultural anthopologist Michael Francis on Thought Leader - “A stab in the jugular with an assegai works quickly and is respectful to the ancestors and to custom. I have done this myself with Zulu friends and it ends in seconds. It is very similar to halal or kosher butchering practices.”
Court cases devide people, no wonder the King is angry. Animal Rights Africa need make amends for that poor judgement and find a way to speak to the King through intermediataries if necessary.
South Africans have in the past shown a great spirit for compromise and solutions. Lets pull another rabbit out of the bag.
I can’t agree with you Trapps, I think that the Zulu nation will deal with the modernization of their own cultures and beliefs just as any culture does. I think we need to think very carefully about how we approach these issues. Besides I think Rapp (crapp) music is worse and that it definitely should be banned.
Trap, you are trying to create a perception that Zulus are a dominant ethnic group in SA and you are using the apartheid tactics to divide people and cause tribal disharmony. We need to be condemned in strongest term.
To you killing a bull bare handed for 20min is cruel fine, but to others is not and the court of law is supporting them. Now are you trying to challenge the court ruling?
It is important that we treat every life form with utmost respect, decency and consideration. Many architects today will try every which way to avoid chopping down a tree unnecessarily when designing a dwelling and how right they are. From what has happened to the environment through our neglect and gross misuse of it, we should all be tuned in to how important every living thing is. Gratuitous cruelty or violence inflicted on animals does not amount to respect and it is to be condemned in the strongest possible terms - whether fish, birds, rabbits or mammals of any kind… even culling or ridding the environment of harmful vermin must be undertaken with sensitivity and the least possible pain to the animal. It is unnecessary and detrimental to our psyche to engage in violent, cruel activities of any kind (including wrestling and boxing where the object of the ‘sport’ is to inflict pain and harm) - we need to lean towards activities that promote decency, respect and peace because sooner or later the opposite translate into violence against innocent fellow earth dwellers and travelers.
Apologists for ukweshwama consistently avoid addressing what Traps has actually said here, by using the ‘not as bad as Canadians clubbing baby seals’ argument.
Well, Canadians could quite easily point to ukweshwama as their excuse not to stop clubbing baby seals. Would you rather talk about how bad it is that Canadians club baby seals, or talk about a similar problem happening in our own back yard, which we have the opportunity to fix?
It takes time to look squarely at an uncomfortable topic. But this is about ukweshwama. It may be uncomfortable, but it is here. Can we look squarely at it, address it for what it is, and talk about it clearly?
—
@ Madoda, who said:
> A neighbour pointing a gun to another neighbour
> is more inhumane than a bull being killed
How many fingers am I holding up? Can you walk in a straight line? Would you consent to being breathalysed?
Just because there are 30 testosterone fueled maniacs who CAN torture and butcher an innocent creature to death, does NOT mean they should be allowed to do so!! I think in this case the word savage can be used quite appropriately! This of course applies to ALL forms of animal abuse in the modern world - those people in the world with some sense of compassion and morality SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TELL THE ZULU CULTURE that this behaviour is inappropriate and unacceptable - there is enough violence, cruelty and disregard for human and animal life in the world already. Nobody is attacking you because you’re Zulu, they are frustrated because the pain you are inflicting is unnecessary and irresponsible!
Why are people who tolerate extreme cruelty to animals on a daily basis are so worried about one bull? Millions of battery chickens are raised in appalling circumstances, and while their deaths are quick, their lives are miserable. If we’re this worried about the suffering of animals, the meat industry is a better target than Zulu culture.
Traps, I think you have done a really good job of offering the Zulu nation the respect it has earned but unfortunately, judging by the comments, it has fallen on deafened ears. Sadly the fact is that next year another bull will be tortured to death in this same manner and still no good would have come from it, for bulls or for Zulu culture. The bull cannot change this status quo but the Zulu king certainly could, so will the king demonstrate that he is strong and merciful or stubborn and selfish?
Madoda I have never had a neighbour who has pointed a gun at myself or any of my family. However some of my family have had a gun held to their head by a thug, whilst robbing them. I suppose this is also a cultural thing.
I love my fishing and hunting.
Iapprove of seals and dolphins being culled if they deplete fish stocks.
I’m undecided about bullfighting. But to chase a bull and take 20 minutes to kill it is nothing short of barbaric.
countries outlawed things like dog fighting, cock fighting and bull baiting centuries ago.
Sadly, SA still has a long way to go.
Had these so-called animal rights activists succeeded then every slaughter would have been subjected to vexatious litigation. It’s good that the judge was sober enough to see through this charade!
Can’t wait for more December slaughtering - who do these people think they are? Telling others to modernise their cultures - they revealed their true intentions and we’ll remember that in future. Since when does the right of a bull trump that of a people’s divine duty to practice their religion, culture and appease their ancestors?
Traps, you are bluffing, raving and ranting once again. Who are you to tell the Zulus what they can preserve or not preserve about their culture? Stop being hipocritical here and focus on more serious issues that affect ordinary South Africans on daily basis.I don’t think you and your ilk fathom what animal cruelty means. You’re lost in translation. As long as you’re a carnivore, if one has to follow your line of thinking, automatically you are also consciously and unconsciously supporting animal cruelty. If you are indeed serious about convincing the Zulus to discard their cultural practice of Ukweshwama as you unashamedly allege that the world see is as something primitive, irrelevant and barbaric, the first step for you is to start convincing people not to slaughter animals nor matter how they do it including your majesty sir.
Moodiela, in war people get killed in battle on both sides - but they are not allowed to be tortured, whether to death or otherwise – thus we have war criminals incarcerated for life after being found guilty of cruelty, torture and war crimes. Hitler’s cronies were hunted down and tried and punished for the inhumane manner in which they treated their prisoners of war and the mass killings after torturing and humiliating them. Some countries allow people to be executed for certain crimes, which, in my opinion is an aberration, but I doubt any country in the world would openly allow a murderer/rapist to be willfully tortured to death no matter how heinous his crime. If my child went missing (God forbid) and was killed, I would pray the manner of the killing was swift and sure – not a dragged out session of cruelty and horrific degradation. If an animal is killed whether for cultural reasons, sacrifice as an offering to God, for food or in a cull, cruelty cannot be condoned. In every circumstance, the killing must be quick, humane and as painless as possible. Anything else is a shocking reflection on humanity. And on this blogg almost every serious issue under the sun is discussed so I am not sure what your point is in that regard.
Problem is: the Zulus think it’s about the Zulus, when it’s actually about the bull and what it has to endure.
Animal rights activists fight against animal abuse wherever it occurs in the world and against whoever partakes of such practices.
So maybe the Zulus should just rein in their egos and accept, that cultural, traditional or religious, by modern standards it will be judged as barbarous cruelty to an animal.
@Traps - ukweshwama should not be canceled if you are against the bull-killing. The sacrifice is only part of a greater ceremony and not the entire event. I can see why Zulus get angry people against the ritual killing method condemn the entire event.
If you wish to call for an end of ‘-nikela’ (inkunzi isinikela in this case) is something different. [sorry if I mangled the Zulu language here, ngiyafunda isizulu, kodwa…]
I know what animal a bunch of hysterical animal rights activists do, and I know what vegans do.
ARA cocked up by going to court. They did not pursue other avenues persistently enough and have hardened the Zulu monarch’s stance. And yes, some animal rights activists do circulate emails accusing people practicing their traditions as being “savages”. Those activists are deprived individuals themselves.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Culture can be modified, maybe not enough to suit the vegans and the “savage” hollerers, but sufficiently to make the ritual no different to halal or kosher butchering, or the way hundreds of animals are slaughtered everyday in rural areas.
While I respect vegan ethics and animal rights, I despise fundamentalists, which is the way you guys carry on. Holier than though pompous so and so’s.
Show tolerance and you will get some real respect.
While I do not condone animal cruelty, the sentiment of the article, and many of the comments, smacks of the conquistadors arriving in South America and Missionaries arriving everywhere else and basically annihilating culture because they were seen to be Satan worshippers and savages.
Being an anthropologist the debate of cultural relativism versus human (in this case animal) rights is commonplace. I am a fan of the former.
It would be just as easy to turn around and say that driving SUVs (a common SA cultural trait) is culturally offensive because it puts my life in danger by not allowing me to see what’s in front of the penis enlarging automobile, thus decreasing my reaction time should I need to avoid an oncoming car or take the gap while crossing the road.
I am definitely not a fan of cultural homogenisation, as in the case of MacDonald’s taking over the world. It is cultural imperialism. In addition to this, ‘development’ and ‘modernisation’, both in academic discourse and in practice, are closely linked with the ideas of the first world.
Be careful when you dismiss other cultures, it is often the numbers that inform what culture will dominate and many of you are outnumbered here.
What I am saying here is there needs to be an element of accommodation of other cultures. Inability to accommodate is more akin to savagery than killing a bull, and an inability to reflect on the ills and cruelty of one’s own culture.
“All the animals, birds, and fish will live in fear of you. They are all placed under your power. Now you can eat them, as well as green plants” Genesis 9:2-4.
I am not a practicing Christian, Jew or Muslim, but I respect different religions and cultures.
Other people and cultures have different values to yourselves. Get a life, you actually piss people off with your pious preaching on vegan ethics. You are starting to pop up like some religious fundamentalists who come knocking on my door. Learn to compromise, better the bull killed quickly next year (stab to the jugular) than upset the King and have the same senario again, just because you won’t compromise on your vegan ethics.
” ARA cocked up by going to court. They did not pursue other avenues persistently enough and have hardened the Zulu monarch’s stance. ”
ARA cocked up? How about paid servants of the South African public refusing to meet with members of the public? You dont see that as a cock up? And Goodwill IS a servant of the public.
If he had met them then he could have maybe convinced them with the strength of his argument? Shown them how it would be of any benefit to anyone other than securing his own fat paycheck?
PS Trying showing some comapssion and reason and maybe you will get some tolerance.
@ Get Real
Actually, Im trying to get people to find things out before jumping to conclusions. You know, understanding that things can exist or happen with out their knowing about it?
If people understood what Animals Rights was about and WHY then maybe they would think twice about their actions or at least think twice about screaming intolerance.
Genesis 3:16 “But the LORD told him, “You may eat fruit from any tree in the garden, ”
Genesis 4:18 “Your food will be plants, but the ground will produce thorns and thistles. ”
Your point? Have a look at the ARA website re religion and animal rights.
” Learn to compromise, better the bull killed quickly next year (stab to the jugular) ”
Funny you mention that. That, as far as I understand, was what ARA asked for. A less cruel killing. So who are the fundementalists here? the ones that refuse dialogue and compromise I imagine.
” What I am saying here is there needs to be an element of accommodation of other cultures. Inability to accommodate is more akin to savagery than killing a bull, and an inability to reflect on the ills and cruelty of one’s own culture. ”
And I ask once again, who is not being accomodating? the ones that ask for or those that refuse dialogue and compromise?
I live in KwaZulu-Natal, don’t know where you live?
I regard the King as the cultural leader of the traditional Zulu, not just everybodies paid civil servant to listen to lectures by vegans on animal rights because they feel superior to others with their ethics and animal rights charter.
That superior arrogant ‘white man’ attitude takes me back to the history books I read on colonial Natal around about 1879 when the British army invaded Zululand and destroyed the Zulu kingdom, ‘bringing civilization to the barbarians, poligamists and heathen’.
If I had an issue to take up with the King I would speak to traditional Zulus and find out how to go about it. I respect the King for who he is and his position in his society. I accept his culture is different to mine. There are aspects of his culture that I strongly dissagree with, but there are probably many aspects of my culture that he finds distasteful.
I think Animal Rights Africa owe the Zulu people and the King an apology for going to court. Why not try and find out how Zulus resolve issues instead of the haughty frigging white man’s “take you to court hey” attitude.
Zululand was invaded by the British roughly 130 years ago and the kingdom destroyed. Zulu culture has been under threat ever since and the King is understandably angry with new threats to Zulu culture and traditions. On the other extreme are people like you waving documents like “Vegan Ethics and the Philosophy of Animal Rights” around condemning King Zwelitini for not meeting them, after all he is “just a paid public servant”.
You are trying to impose your “Vegan Ethics and the Philosophy of Animal Rights” on the monarch of a nation white colonists destroyed.
If anybody does not understand the concept of compromise its you guys. Give me one good reason why King Zwelitini should meet people whose countrymen have consistently undermined and destoyed the Zulu nation for 130 years?
Animal Rights Africa should apologise to the Zulu people and the King for taking them to court, and try and find out how traditional Zulus resolve customary issues so that common sense can prevail and a compromise reached.
Firstly, what you consider him to be, as opposed to being a paid servant of the state, is entirely irrelevant. He gets paid from SA taxpayers money. He has no legal authority over any of his supposed subjects and certainly none over anyone else.
Secondly, you confuse aniaml rights with “white man”. Animal rights is a global movement encomapssing all races. But it is so much easier to scream imperialism and intolerance isnt it. Lazy. Very lazy.
Thirdly, once again, perhaps he should have welcomed the attmpt at dialogue rather than declining with ignorant statements about fishing?
Fourthly, noone feels superior to anyone here. If you have a problem with animal rights or vegan ethics, I will happily debate the subject. I have yet to see a compelling argument against either. I have also yet to see any argument, none, supporting why tradition and culture trumps Universal rights. “Because the king says so” or “because we have always done it that way” does not cut it. Im sure you recognise that many things can be done in the name of some king/leader/fuhrer can be wrong. Im sure you recognise that tradtition, also, can be wrong. So in order for tradtion to trump ethics (or anything else) there has to be an argument beyond the argument from tradition. In this case, what is the argument for a slow death vs a quick death?
Are you surprised the Zulu monarch does not want to meet ARA? He sees it as a repeat of whats been going on for a century and a half. Meetings, manipulation, deception, and if he does not go down on his knees and listen the Bwana he ends up in court in Pietermaritzburg, its all happened many times before. Why not just banish King Zwelitini to the Castle in Cape Town like his forebear King Cetewayo in 1880? I mean your attitude towards the Zulu is no different from those days anyway; they must meet you and listen to you. Oh yes, yes!!!! they must!!! You have superior ethics, you are from a superior civilisation, oh yes, yes!!
I am not sure whether the Zulu King is a Christian but if he is he will subscribe to what the King of Kings said “I come to serve, not to be served” and he washed the feet of his apostles to demonstrate and affirm the point. The greatest calling of any man or woman is to be given the opportunity to serve his fellow man whether Christian or not. I am sure the King himself would be happy to be called a servant to his people. Mothers and Fathers serve and care for their children - children serve and care for their parents and grandparents. Nothing wrong with serving mankind with dignity. It is what we are all meant to do - with dignity, decency and respect - as we sow we reap so good things come to those who serve.
On the other extreme are people like you waving documents like “Vegan Ethics and the Philosophy of Animal Rights”
There is no such document. You obviously have not read the ARA website and are, therefore, arguing against something from…what?…assumptions?
” around condemning King Zwelitini for not meeting them, after all he is “just a paid public servant””
Not condemning, correcting. If you are going to insist that ARA should have tried other means first, best you check to see whether they did or not. Now you switch to protocol. If it were a matter of protocol then they should have said so rather than questioning what ARA does about fishing. Goodwill is subject to SA law (and SA does have anti cruelty laws) as much as any citizen. This is not a customary matter but a matter of law.
” If anybody does not understand the concept of compromise its you guys. Give me one good reason why King Zwelitini should meet people whose countrymen have consistently undermined and destoyed the Zulu nation for 130 years? ”
He doesnt have to. He can do whatever he chooses. Dont try and scream compromise in his defence when he refuses. No engagement, no possible compromise.
Animal Rights Africa should apologise to the Zulu people and the King for taking them to court, and try and find out how traditional Zulus resolve customary issues so that common sense can prevail and a compromise reached.
Correction of last post - last paragraph should be deleted. I didnt delete what I had copied from Wise Old Joe’s post
@ Get Real
” he ends up in court in Pietermaritzburg, ”
That is what courts are for. To determine matters of law.
” I mean your attitude towards the Zulu is no different from those days anyway; they must meet you and listen to you.”
As I said previously, they do not have to. Just like ARA or any other person does not have to bow and scrape to him. If he refuses, there is no basis for a demand for an apology. If there was some issue re protocol, then it is a small matter easily corected. This was outright refusal.
” You have superior ethics “.
You would never know until you, at least, checked, right? Their response re fish shows that did not even do that. And if you have a problem with vegan ethics, please feel free to put tell me why.
I think you lot need to actually read the law regarding traditoinal leaders and their obligations to SA.
The Zulu kingdom was invaded and destroyed and now you rub it in that the king is irrelevant, has no authority, paid for by tax payers money, no wonder the man does not want to meet animal rights activists.
I’m not confusing animal rights with ‘white man’, but what perception does the king have of these Bwana’s that he has to listen to because they are taxpayers but know zilch about his culture?
I don’t have a problem with animal rights or vegan ethics, I probably know more about them than you give me credit for, but I do have a problem with the historical context the king finds himself in and people ignoring his cultural mores and ethics and taking him to court.
Nothings changed, white man riding roughshod over the Zulu once more because they ‘represent a world wide movement’ British empire was also a worldwide movement.
I think if ARA can come to terms with the fact that they are going into his territory, to ask him to change his cultural ways, then they must do it on his terms, showing respect for him and his culture, traditions, mores and the historical context he find himself in.
The agressors who destroyed Zululand with horrendous sophisticated weapons by comparison to Zulu weapons were adherents of the ‘King of Kings’ religion. They then proceeded to devastate the country with divide and rule which resulted in terrible famine and civil war. Please read up on some Zulu history. I don’t know how enamoured the Zulu King would be with following that religion?
I am sure the Zulu King serves his people, but do you think a bunch of Bwana’s who espouse beliefs very foreign to him, do not talk his language, probably don’t know very much about his culture or history, are the people he is obliged to listen to and serve?
I love how this has been turned from an animal cruelty issue into a cultural issue. No-one wanted the festival to be stopped, and no-one expected that a bull would not be killed. We “hysterical” animal rightists were just hoping the animal wouldn’t be subjected to protracted agony.
ARA asked for discussion, the Zulu “king” flat-out refused to talk to them. Surely a spirit of tolerance or just plain politeness would have prompted him to at least hear their concerns. And everyone jumped on the “ARA = bad” bandwagon without having a clue what they’re about, and without bothering to find out.
What’s worse is that we’ve been told that ARA doesn’t in fact really have facts about the killing of the bull, and they are prevented from filming it to gather more facts. Why?
May I remind the readers that South Africa is a signatory to international anti-cruelty legislation.
I would have imagined that people whose rights were stepped on so much in the past would have some compassion. And in fact the Zulu people I know personally are all warm, compassionate people who actually do care about animals. So does the “king” really represent the wishes of the Zulu people?
At any rate, I wish people would consider the fact that this is not about disrespecting culture. It is about respecting life.
I back the King ,his Majesty for not bordering exchanging the words with all the whingers in this blogging who think there know everything and deserve right to challenge anyone.
Back to his Majesty, what is hiden here to be declared,in this ceremony? As King offers the bull to warriors and warriors displays their energy and pride to their king, by undergoing an exercise which takes the bull strenght to convince the king that the warriors he commands are healthy,energetic and well disciplined as soldiers.
The bull has to provide a braai at the end ,which is not an issue.
There is a culture in sports ,inclu.boxing,Ruby and Resling, these sports are dangerous ,practiced global and millions of foxes paying to watch them with human casualities, but none of these whingers has ever raise any complain or comment about ignorence to those organising or partaking in such, but to those you look down upon you think you have to hail insult and make an unholding point as if you know better with risk and abuses than anyone else.
Just back off, this a culture for the Zulus with a full meaning to the Zulus ,than none Zulus and Zulus dont have to bulge to yo ignorence.
To be simple and clear from afrocentric percpetive with regard to this culture, if you shoot,stab or poison to kill the bull using those methods of killing as convinient to the eyes of the ARA and likes ,that procedure wont meet the creteria and standard of UKWESHWAMA CULTURE as the king is not a commander of the cowards, lazy , frail and eldery who have sit there being lazy and wait for meat consumption as you buy it ready from a butcher.
Here you talk about the zulu culture which is perculiar to other ethnic cultures, which is chareterised by ,braveness,muscles, energy and a disciplined command that Zulus beleive in as inherited from generations to generations of our warriors who were practical,physical and hands on action to be simple and clear to foreign cultures that confuses their assumptions with times we live on to our aged culture.
Why does the Zulu King have to have a legal funtion?
Do all monarch’s serve only a legal purpose?
“As the custodian of Zulu traditions and customs, His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu has revived cultural functions such as the umhlanga, the colourful and symbolic reed dance ceremony which, amongst other things, promotes moral awareness and AIDS education among Zulu women, and the Ukweshwama the first fruits ceremony, which is a traditional function involving certain traditional rituals.
He has also traveled abroad extensively to promote tourism and trade for KwaZulu-Natal, and to fundraise for Zulu-supported charities.”
Copyright 2009 Royal Zulu Monarch. All Rights Reserved.Site by Growgraphics http://www.zulumonarch.co.za/
I hate it when people see issues in isolation just because it suits them. If you are interfering with a persons culture of course its as much a cultural issue as an animal rights issue.
And yes animal rights activists can get very hit up and hysterical, ask anyone of them to interpret the PMB judgement that exonerated the King then ask a lawyer to interpret it for you, different planets.
And it appears vegans are haughty and anti-social, don’t like them, even though I admire their vegan ethics.
Its time to see things in a more wholistic perspective, not just legal, or cultural, or historical, all that and much more makes us human in the world we interact in.
If ARA want to improve their image its up to them and not everyone else to find out. People are getting things wrong its because ARA are not communicating their message properly.
The ARA need to learn that perceptions count as much or even more than the truth. They should have known taking the Zulu King to court would polarise South Africa.
I mean how naive can you be?
But being naval gazers they were so sure only animal rights matter; stuff historical context, stuff culture, stuff race relations, stuff past politics. Now lets see them sort it out.
Suits me sir so stuff you on December 11th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
@Suits me sir,well said Brother!These people came here univited,destroyed one of the promising cultures with lies & more lies. Do you guys really think that us ordinary folks give a damn about what you have to say.
Settlers make the same mistake the world over.They don’t take time to learn more about customes & practices of the natives of the country they settles in.Instead they try to impose their own values on every one els.
perception? Nuff said. He was not accommodating due to perception.
“I probably know more about them than you give me credit for, ”
I make no judgement about you and vegan ethics.
” but I do have a problem with the historical context the king finds himself in and people ignoring his cultural mores and ethics and taking him to court. ”
So because of the action of some people centuries ago, you think goodwill is above the law? Did he not ignore them by refusing to speak to them?
“white man riding roughshod over the Zulu once more because they ‘represent a world wide movement’”
You forgot to include the ‘and encomapsses all races’. You’re getting dishonest in your arguments now.
@ Andy
“Why does the Zulu King have to have a legal funtion?
Do all monarch’s serve only a legal purpose?”
Because it is the law that has he has a legal function. Thats why he gets to spend ridiculous amounts of money and complain that his people are hungry.
@ crackpot
” I don’t see anyone tacking you to court for being a vegan?? ”
As far as I know eating vegetables is still legal. If anyone feels like it, they are welcome to try.
@ Wise Old Joe
“Ahem, I was only quoting you further up:”
In amongst that section you quoted you will see the words “read about” as opposed to “read”. Try reading it again.
Its so easy to glibbly dismiss everything everyone says and not come up with a compromise or solution either, except insist you are right i.e. the Zulu King should have listened to the Bwana’s from Animal Rights Africa.
Animal rights activists and vegans have gone down in my estimation, though I support the principles.
Go ahead, take the King to court again and again and again and impose an international animal rights law that he does not understand on him if that is all your narrow mind can concieve of.
I believe there are better solutions but I am not prepared to discuss them in a forum with a one track minded individual.
“And it appears vegans are haughty and anti-social, don’t like them, even though I admire their vegan ethics.”
What do you base that on? The fact that an animal rights organisation will resort to the courts if the people they wanted to engage in discussion do not have the courtesy to do so?
@ Wise Old Joe
“I believe there are better solutions but I am not prepared to discuss them in a forum with a one track minded individual.”
Like what exactly? That the matter be discussed between interested parties? That’s exactly what ARA wanted.
@ sgubhusenkwishi
First off sports like rugby tend to be played by informed and consenting adults, rather unlike the bull in the Ukweshwama ritual. Secondly, are you saying that the cruelty is an essential part of the ritual?
“ Its so easy to glibbly dismiss everything everyone says and not come up with a compromise or solution either, except insist you are right “
Perhaps it is worth taking a step back here and remember that you said that “Animal Rights Africa need … find a way to speak to the King through intermediataries if necessary.”
In case you missed my point, If you are going to insist that ARA should’ve done whatever, please ensure that you are correct.
ARA approached the royal household and then tried intermdiaries. It was only after this failed that they went to court for an interdict.
Get a life. The King refused to talk. I support the stance he took after how racist colonists and paranoid control freaks have destroyed Zulu culture in the past.
Who says he won’t talk through intermediataries at a later date?
You cannot change the past. The future is full of possibilities. But if you can see no further than vegan ethics or that the king gave ARA the middle finger a few weeks ago fine. Wallow in your narrow as razor blade mind set.
What I’ve come to learn is that companies that want to global send people to those countries to learn about the cultures, the people and the like to avoid offending the host countries and their people. That tends to pay for itself in many ways but most importantly, for me at least, saves these companies millions in unnecessary litigation costs such as the one ARA had to foot, if they did.
Besides, ARA should not expect support from ordinary SA citizens. Animal rights come last to someone who is hungry, unemployed and feels animal rights come before theirs.
Stop imposing yourselves on people because you feel like it. You may think your morals and ethics are the best but in reality, people have their own interpretations.
ARA should learn from the DA/COPE’s inability to gain any meaningful support from ordinary and especially black people. You don’t talk at someone but to them. How can you expect to win people over when you tell them that their differing from you is because they’re savages, barbaric and backwards.
In my opinion until Animal Rights Africa can be certain that they will be able to push through an agenda of animal life equal to human life they do not want to meet King Goodwill.
@Crackpot
Killing a bull may be legal, however, the manner in which it is killed may be illegal.
Unfortunately many things involving cruelty are “embraced” by some among us, that doesn’t make it right.
In Britain the Royal Society for the Protection of Animals existed for some time before the formation of the National Society for the Protection of Children. In fact the latter took their cue from the RSPCA and used them as an example as to how to go about preventing cruelty to children. It is a fact that people who are cruel to animals are likely to develop into people who are cruel to humans.
If one’s “pride” and culture rely on being cruel to animals then your culture is a sad case indeed.
That is the biggest misconception about animal rights and why I have been assking people to read up about it. The underlying thinking of animal rights is not ‘animals or humans’ it is ‘animals and humans’.
I have a life, thanks. One filled with compassionate people, living animals and tasty vegetables. Neither I nor the bull had any part in what racist colonists did to Zulu culture.
How many more animals must die a slow, painful death before the king will deign to talk through intermediaries?
As for vegan ethics, once you read up on it you may find it’s not that narrow. Every animal rightist I know is also a passionate supporter of human rights. Usually their compassion for animals flowed from their initial recognition of universal, inalienable rights. My position is that cultural rights do not necessarily trump the rights to life or bodily integrity of humans or animals. We can all imagine what sort of inhuman practices can and have been perpetrated under the banner of “culture”. Killing a bull is not illegal. Torturing an animal is. Are we saying blind acceptance of culture is more important than law?
The point I was trying to make is that all these groups that are pushing ideals like ARA need to wake up to this simple fact: desist from engaging people like you know it all.
For instance, the king maybe upset about being dragged to court and being told that if he wants to stick to culture then he must also go back to living in a mud hut but his subjects are livid, me included. Read posts of a group called uMzulu on facebook.
Be modern, be educated and all things that your culture affords but be weary of dancing on the heads of those you feel need to be on a par with you in terms of modernity, morals and ethics for they might feel the need to shake you off.
And, I would tell you the reason why the bull needs to bellow before it dies but you would tell me in your enlightened attitude that ancestral involvement in this is mambo jumbo.
” The point I was trying to make is that all these groups that are pushing ideals like ARA need to wake up to this simple fact: desist from engaging people like you know it all. ”
I do not believe they have. They approached the king and were met with refusal to talk. In approaching the king, I believe, they showed some cultural sensitivity and willingness to engage in a manner that is appropriate. One thing you must remember though, is they feel as strongly as you about this. So perhaps their intitial spirit of respect should have been reciprocated.
“if he wants to stick to culture then he must also go back to living in a mud hut but his subjects are livid, me included. ”
I cannot imagine that any representative of ARA would say that. Is it not other poeple that are saying that? I have seen it all over the place. My issue here is people making assumptions about what organisations do or do not do.
” And, I would tell you the reason why the bull needs to bellow before it dies but you would tell me in your enlightened attitude that ancestral involvement in this is mambo jumbo.”
I do not have the same beliefs, certainly, but would be intersted to hear it.
“How many more animals must die a slow, painful death before the king will deign to talk through intermediaries?”
- that depends on the outspoken white man who represents ARA. When he decides to get off his pedistal and acknowledge the Zulu monarch as king of the Zulu instead of a mere civil servant and is prepared to publically state he respects the Zulu, culture even if he does not agree with it, maybe, just maybe, the Zulu monarch will forgive ARA for their high handed indiscretions and talk to them.
My final take on this debate is neither the Zulu nor the vegans want to negotiate. The vegans may have deep pockets (overseas funding for animal rights), so they will continue to find excuses to take the Zulu Monarch to court until they can either get animal rights to life = human rights to life included in the law in this country and all South Africans become vegans by law, or they exhaust all legal options and be forced to negotiate with the Zulu for a compromise.
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[…] Thought Leader » Michael Trapido » As much as I respect Zulu culture, ukweshwama can never be cond… www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/12/06/no-bull-at-zulu-ritual – view page – cached One of the sources of great pride to most South Africans is the presence among us of the Zulu nation. At once loyal and courageous this band of brothers took on the might of the British Empire during… Read moreOne of the sources of great pride to most South Africans is the presence among us of the Zulu nation. At once loyal and courageous this band of brothers took on the might of the British Empire during the 19th century with primitive weaponry and never gave ground. View page […]
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