Comments on: Why Simelane for the NPA? http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/ Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:50:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Paddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-104589 Paddy Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:48:18 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-104589 Stephen Grootes on 702 this morning said that Simelani is too scared to so a live interview on radio. This about the guy who is meant to "prosecute without fear or favor" being scared of radio journalists. If it wasn't so scary it would be really really funny. ha ha ha Stephen Grootes on 702 this morning said that Simelani is too scared to so a live interview on radio.

This about the guy who is meant to “prosecute without fear or favor” being scared of radio journalists.

If it wasn’t so scary it would be really really funny.

ha ha ha

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]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103850 Sipho Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:30:26 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103850 @ Rose Morrow - most black people believe that Dr Wouter Basson was as guilty as charged. People know their comrades who were injected with black mamba vernom and yet the court declared that there was no evidence. Zuma was cleared by another arm of the judiciary and to insist on the clearance by the courts creates an impression that something was amiss in the courts. Zuma has consistently said he believe his duck was already cooked, especialy at the Supreme Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court. Surely there were reasons that made him suspicious. For example the Chief Justice of the CC was given a national award by a sitting president, who had material interest in some cases the CC was to adjudicate on. A Deputy Chief Justice socialised with Zuma's nemesis and even assure his guests he was "gonna do the thing" irrepective the new ANC said. I personal become suspicious when former President De Klerk went around the world assuring his audience that Zuma would never become a president. How could he be so sure, especially after his private meetings with former President Mbeki. Even Mbeki actively assisted the prosecutors by following Zuma to Mauritius to ensure that the government hand over documents to the NPA. The whole succession episode has been very muddy, to therefore rely on "respected legal minds" to tell the truth is a bit overly trusting. @ Rose Morrow - most black people believe that Dr Wouter Basson was as guilty as charged. People know their comrades who were injected with black mamba vernom and yet the court declared that there was no evidence.
Zuma was cleared by another arm of the judiciary and to insist on the clearance by the courts creates an impression that something was amiss in the courts. Zuma has consistently said he believe his duck was already cooked, especialy at the Supreme Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court. Surely there were reasons that made him suspicious. For example the Chief Justice of the CC was given a national award by a sitting president, who had material interest in some cases the CC was to adjudicate on. A Deputy Chief Justice socialised with Zuma’s nemesis and even assure his guests he was “gonna do the thing” irrepective the new ANC said. I personal become suspicious when former President De Klerk went around the world assuring his audience that Zuma would never become a president. How could he be so sure, especially after his private meetings with former President Mbeki. Even Mbeki actively assisted the prosecutors by following Zuma to Mauritius to ensure that the government hand over documents to the NPA. The whole succession episode has been very muddy, to therefore rely on “respected legal minds” to tell the truth is a bit overly trusting.

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]]> By: Rose Morrow http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103780 Rose Morrow Fri, 04 Dec 2009 07:24:29 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103780 Sipho - Thanks for your thoughtful response and I especially like your advice in the last paragraph: "...I would suggest you refrain from casting aspersion on others without concrete evidence." That is good advice for everyone of us to follow, even on the blog. That said, in a court of law guilty findings are made based on circumstantial evidence and there is quite a lot of that around JZ in regard to the corruption charges - many respected 0legal minds and rated commentators hold that opinion. As for concrete evidence in the form of a Court finding, for the moment that is not available because JZ has fought a long, hard and extremely costly battle to avoid facing the corruption charges in a Court of Law. That situation is not of our making. Taking the above into account, the appointments around the justice and security cluster are of great concern. Simelane has already said Mbeki (or the presidency...) made him do it....... and that in itself is problematic in terms of what he is prepared to do to please his current "master". Sipho - Thanks for your thoughtful response and I especially like your advice in the last paragraph: “…I would suggest you refrain from casting aspersion on others without concrete evidence.” That is good advice for everyone of us to follow, even on the blog. That said, in a court of law guilty findings are made based on circumstantial evidence and there is quite a lot of that around JZ in regard to the corruption charges - many respected 0legal minds and rated commentators hold that opinion. As for concrete evidence in the form of a Court finding, for the moment that is not available because JZ has fought a long, hard and extremely costly battle to avoid facing the corruption charges in a Court of Law. That situation is not of our making. Taking the above into account, the appointments around the justice and security cluster are of great concern. Simelane has already said Mbeki (or the presidency…) made him do it……. and that in itself is problematic in terms of what he is prepared to do to please his current “master”.

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]]> By: Scarface http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103686 Scarface Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:30:03 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103686 I have been out of SA for over a year now and follow events closely. I often want to comment on TL and as I type, I realise that it's a lost case. What is happening is a joke, but it's not funny. I feel so sorry for the good people in the country - at least 43990000 innocent bystanders in SA who will suffer. But in the end, Africa is about going through cycles. I have been out of SA for over a year now and follow events closely. I often want to comment on TL and as I type, I realise that it’s a lost case.

What is happening is a joke, but it’s not funny. I feel so sorry for the good people in the country - at least 43990000 innocent bystanders in SA who will suffer.

But in the end, Africa is about going through cycles.

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]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103589 Sipho Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:46:26 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103589 @Rose Morrow - Words carry the burden of social meaning. We use them to express our world views based on our personal experience and interests. There are words that are reserved for those we consider to be our enemies and those reserved for our friends. Words are never neutral.We never see any positives in our perceived enemies and we never see any negatives in our friends. You've already concluded that Zuma's only motivation is corruption. And this is entirely based on dinner table conversations and what is gleaned from your prefered media. You probably don't read anything that negates your beliefs. If you sincerely want to build the nation (I honestly believe your are) I would suggest you refrain from casting aspersion on others without concrete evidence. @Rose Morrow - Words carry the burden of social meaning. We use them to express our world views based on our personal experience and interests. There are words that are reserved for those we consider to be our enemies and those reserved for our friends. Words are never neutral.We never see any positives in our perceived enemies and we never see any negatives in our friends.

You’ve already concluded that Zuma’s only motivation is corruption. And this is entirely based on dinner table conversations and what is gleaned from your prefered media. You probably don’t read anything that negates your beliefs.

If you sincerely want to build the nation (I honestly believe your are) I would suggest you refrain from casting aspersion on others without concrete evidence.

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]]> By: Rose Morrow http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103462 Rose Morrow Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:17:27 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103462 Sipho - "integrity, decency and independence" -means just that and nothing more - for me anyway. That would be pretty normal for someone taking up that position don't you think? You may have hidden agendas and skewed motivations when you write on the blog - I don't - and many others who contribute here are genuine in their desire to be useful citizens making a constructive contribution to SA, contributing positively through caring about all her people. We grow in that direction through vibrant discussion around informed opinions and by having open minds which can be changed by valid arguments couched in decency and respect. "You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it with a ten pound hammer." This is a conversation, not a battle field. Surely we are not here to score points and prove how very clever and witty we are or make unfounded claims of bias and racism in everyone but ourselves. If you want someone to walk with you to your world, enter theirs, convince them of your integrity and then take their hand and lead them to a better place. Sipho - “integrity, decency and independence” -means just that and nothing more - for me anyway. That would be pretty normal for someone taking up that position don’t you think? You may have hidden agendas and skewed motivations when you write on the blog - I don’t - and many others who contribute here are genuine in their desire to be useful citizens making a constructive contribution to SA, contributing positively through caring about all her people. We grow in that direction through vibrant discussion around informed opinions and by having open minds which can be changed by valid arguments couched in decency and respect. “You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it with a ten pound hammer.” This is a conversation, not a battle field. Surely we are not here to score points and prove how very clever and witty we are or make unfounded claims of bias and racism in everyone but ourselves. If you want someone to walk with you to your world, enter theirs, convince them of your integrity and then take their hand and lead them to a better place.

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]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103399 Sipho Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:05:45 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103399 @ Rose Morrow "Ja, it’s the brazenness with which JZ goes about appointing controversial figures to positions that in essence require people of integrity, decency and independence that is terribly frightening" I suppose integrity, decency and independence means preferably being white with an anti ANC agenda or to a lesser extent being African with pathological hatred for Zuma. @ Rose Morrow
“Ja, it’s the brazenness with which JZ goes about appointing controversial figures to positions that in essence require people of integrity, decency and independence that is terribly frightening”
I suppose integrity, decency and independence means preferably being white with an anti ANC agenda or to a lesser extent being African with pathological hatred for Zuma.

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]]> By: Michael Trapido http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103264 Michael Trapido Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:17:58 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103264 LubabaloN - Where have I pronounced him guilty? I said give him a job of equal status in a position where controversy won't dog him. Pat - No BTW we are carrying two pro-Zuma stories today : http://www.therichmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3385&pcurr=1 http://www.therichmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3384&pcurr=1 When I gave my assessment of Zuma's first 100 days I said I thought he was doing a good job. Where I think he is right I will back him where I think he is wrong I will give him the basis for my dissent. At his inuaguration speech the president himseld said the NC must learn to take criticism. Unfortunatel while you accept the good some of you think that anyone who raises issues must be a colonist or an imperialist. Even in the case of Malema whenever I think he has a point I will support him. That said you can call me a racist until you're blue in the face that won't change my approach of putting forwar what I believe is best. Nobody says I'm right - that's why you have a comments section - to disagree or agree. LubabaloN - Where have I pronounced him guilty?

I said give him a job of equal status in a position where controversy won’t dog him.

Pat - No

BTW we are carrying two pro-Zuma stories today :

http://www.therichmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3385&pcurr=1

http://www.therichmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3384&pcurr=1

When I gave my assessment of Zuma’s first 100 days I said I thought he was doing a good job.

Where I think he is right I will back him where I think he is wrong I will give him the basis for my dissent.

At his inuaguration speech the president himseld said the NC must learn to take criticism.

Unfortunatel while you accept the good some of you think that anyone who raises issues must be a colonist or an imperialist.

Even in the case of Malema whenever I think he has a point I will support him.

That said you can call me a racist until you’re blue in the face that won’t change my approach of putting forwar what I believe is best.

Nobody says I’m right - that’s why you have a comments section - to disagree or agree.

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]]> By: Rose Morrow http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103257 Rose Morrow Tue, 01 Dec 2009 08:48:29 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103257 Ja, it's the brazenness with which JZ goes about appointing controversial figures to positions that in essence require people of integrity, decency and independence that is terribly frightening. Obviously he considers himself invincible and untouchable - he's over confident and shameless in his endeavours to ensure his corruption charges will never again see the light of day. Let's hope the old adage of "pride comes before the fall" or "over confidence is a recipe for disaster" applies to him just as it has to many other leaders in the past who thought wrongly that they could do as they pleased no matter the consequences for millions of people looking to them for protection and security. The wheels of justice to turn eventually. And really, that racist card is so inappropriately over used on this blog at times. These dubious appointments should be concerning for anyone who deeply cares about South Africa and her people. The ANC leadership has done fabulous stuff in the past, it is just not doing so at this time in relation to this and related matters... anyone who cannot see what JZ's plans are in relation to the Justice and Security cluster is just blind or ill informed or both. And as one of the bloggers said, millions whites were stupid enough to vote in the apartheid government and believe they could maintain the status quo - you know the story about history repeating itself? And that's the sad thing about history. Ja, it’s the brazenness with which JZ goes about appointing controversial figures to positions that in essence require people of integrity, decency and independence that is terribly frightening. Obviously he considers himself invincible and untouchable - he’s over confident and shameless in his endeavours to ensure his corruption charges will never again see the light of day. Let’s hope the old adage of “pride comes before the fall” or “over confidence is a recipe for disaster” applies to him just as it has to many other leaders in the past who thought wrongly that they could do as they pleased no matter the consequences for millions of people looking to them for protection and security. The wheels of justice to turn eventually. And really, that racist card is so inappropriately over used on this blog at times. These dubious appointments should be concerning for anyone who deeply cares about South Africa and her people. The ANC leadership has done fabulous stuff in the past, it is just not doing so at this time in relation to this and related matters… anyone who cannot see what JZ’s plans are in relation to the Justice and Security cluster is just blind or ill informed or both. And as one of the bloggers said, millions whites were stupid enough to vote in the apartheid government and believe they could maintain the status quo - you know the story about history repeating itself? And that’s the sad thing about history.

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]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103254 Sipho Tue, 01 Dec 2009 08:28:08 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/27/why-simelane-for-the-npa/#comment-103254 Spoiler writes "show me a white appointee that is deserving of this kind of criticism" Pierre de Vos is one such individual who abuses his public platform as a university "professor" to advance partisan interests.Judge Harmse is another one who ruthlessly attack lower court decision knowing very well that those courts have no right to reply. Some Supreme Court of appeal judges who attribute newspaper phrases to a lower court judge. Constitutional court judges who rush to the media before they've heard the other side of the story. As far as Pierre de Vos no one can get it wrong when it comes to Zuma or his perceived associates. Spoiler writes “show me a white appointee that is deserving of this kind of criticism”
Pierre de Vos is one such individual who abuses his public platform as a university “professor” to advance partisan interests.Judge Harmse is another one who ruthlessly attack lower court decision knowing very well that those courts have no right to reply. Some Supreme Court of appeal judges who attribute newspaper phrases to a lower court judge. Constitutional court judges who rush to the media before they’ve heard the other side of the story. As far as Pierre de Vos no one can get it wrong when it comes to Zuma or his perceived associates.

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