My regulars know that I’m a fan of former president Thabo Mbeki and as such I thought it best that I give the rest of you the heads-up before starting this discussion. Of course that does not mean I am unaware of his faults, the worst of which was his administration’s approach to the question of HIV/Aids.
The fact that it was his administration and not just Mbeki alone which brought about the result is a feature of this issue that is far too often overlooked by those looking for a scapegoat. While he might be aloof (or dignified as I see it) he still acted very much within the restraints that the party, government and laws of the country placed upon him.
Accordingly he was no more able to set policy on his own than any other member of the ANC or government.
The route that they chose to go — outlined in this well thought out article by Frans Cronje — was an absolute shocker, the results of which are still being felt by the HIV/Aids community.
As Cronje points out, in terms of a recent extensive medical report on the topic, South Africa had 0.7% of the world’s population but 17% of people infected with HIV and Aids.
A staggering statistic when one has regard to the information age within which we live and the primitive approach that was adopted to meeting this terrible illness.
Moreover few of us who followed the progress on this issue will ever forget the government’s steadfast refusal to accept the weight of medical information that was piling up against their chosen policies.
Having said that, we live in a (supposedly) accountable society and someone or a number of individuals need to answer for that debacle. Cronje’s submission appears to be reasonable and will avoid the hysteria that answering questions seems to generate in South Africa :
“There is however another option open to the victims of the ANC’s HIV/Aids policies. That is to pursue class action-style civil claims against the government and the ANC for loss of breadwinner support and the like that resulted from deaths of their family members.” (Cronje)
In addition it does not seek to make Mbeki the sole scapegoat for every problem this country has.
Of course the Young Communist League has gone much further in calling for Mbeki and his health minister to be charged with genocide.
“Genocide” noun : the murder of a whole group of people, especially a whole nation, race or religious group. (Cambridge dictionary)
“Genocide”: 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”.
While the approach of the government to HIV/Aids may have been negligent, stubborn and even bloody-minded it was never their intention to harm the people of this country or any group hereof.
It is inconceivable that any judge will believe that the former administration deliberately set out to harm the sufferers. No doubt one might find that their refusal to listen to the leading experts on retroviruses or use the medicines recommended by doctors around the world makes them liable.
The key word is “might” and affords them the opportunity of setting out their thinking — lest we all judge too quickly.
As Cope president Mosiuoa Lekota has said, those suggesting Mbeki and his administration be charged with genocide are being irresponsible and distorting the history of our country.
Whichever way it goes it would be in all of our interests to stop using emotive words like genocide when dealing with this issue.
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44 Responses to “Mbeki not a candidate for genocide charges”
[…] Thought Leader » Michael Trapido » Mbeki not a candidate for genocide charges www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/23/mbeki-is-not-a-candidate-for-genocide-charges – view page – cached My regulars know that I’m a fan of former president Thabo Mbeki and as such I thought it best that I give the rest of you the heads-up before starting this discussion. Of course that does not mean… Read moreMy regulars know that I’m a fan of former president Thabo Mbeki and as such I thought it best that I give the rest of you the heads-up before starting this discussion. Of course that does not mean I am unaware of his faults, the worst of which was his administration’s approach to the question of Read less […]
My distinct impression (and one or two doctors that I knew who commented upon it) regarding the suppression and/or neglect of simple techniques like prenatal vaginal douching and improvised breastmilk pasteurisation to prevent mother to child transmission was that The State didn’t simply didn’t want to be lumped with AIDS orphans. AIDS babies, naturally, being a far shorter-term problem.
We were informed in the late 90s that at least 20% of our population is HIV positive and would die within 5 to 10 years. Why is our population not 20% less than in the 80s or at least 10% less than in the 90s (taking into account population growth)?
Nkadimeng Moroana on November 24th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
When Mbeki left, all the moderates went with him. Now we have radical militants and the media is largely to blame for having catapulted them from relative obscurity (or insignificance) to the highest echelons of the country’s rulership.
And yes, the worst thing that Mbeki did was approach AIDS in the manner that he did. But even Nadine Gordimer said he was the most principled leader in Africa; “He has moral fibre”. But the most popuar sport in the SA media has always been ‘mindless/incessant Mbeki-bashing’.
The word genocide is problematic but the damage inflicted by that administration in the area of HIV/AIDS is not only immeasurable but also leads one to ask the simple question: What should one call it? Criminal? Negligent? Moronic? Over-judged sense of intelligence?
What’s to be done with a criminal, Traps? There is one up north of SA…..shall we just leave him be? Or maybe we allow ourselves a symbolic trip through the courts a la Magnus Malan to at least register the fact in our eyes we see a criminal??
This issue is very emotional for a lot of people. That’s why people want to see some sort of justice done. Whether this would be the right sort of justice or not is debatable but Thabo Mbeki and his health minister were criminally incorrect in sending those people to their deaths while a stupid argument whether giving treatment, which in some instances was available for FREE, was the right cause of action or not.
This treatment was not even experimental at that stage but was mainstream and accepted by sane scientists everywhere.
Did the party fail to reign in a rogue president? YES on more than one occasion.
But to say that Thabo Mbeki should be lumped together with the party and cabinet would be to show a lack of understanding of how power works. For better or for worse, SA was very briefly in a dictatorship!! We better not forget that.
It is clear to me that purpose of this conversation, on whether to charge Mbeki with genocide or not, is designed to confirm that Mbeki was, indeed, wrong in the way he handled the HIV and ARV’s issue. What is peculiar though, is that the South Africa’s mortality rate (according to the health minister) is far worse now that ARV’s are in circulation than before and AIDS is blamed for the increase of the mortality rate. Can someone please explain why this would be the case?
Can someone with access to the health minister ask him - of the people who started treatment, how many are still alive? Because if we do not know the answer to this question, how can we not say that the extra deaths are made up of people who started the ARV program at some point?
No, he is NOT a candidate for genocide. It was an error of judgment, but not a wilful massacre of innocent people, women and children or ethnic cleansing, and such. It is a cheap shot to label Mbeki a killer/murderer of multitudes…he is no Miloslav, nor Hitler, just a modern day Nero who fiddled while his people and his country was getting wiped out by a (not-so)silent killer.
All it is is a tragic error of a misplaced emotions, politics and judgment, which by the way was completely and adamantly shared with almost 80 % of everyone who was an ANC and tripartite alliance member up to 2008.
They just want to make Mbeki a lone scapegoat, when he actually interpreted and championed his party’s philosophy and conspiracy theories to the bitter and tragic end. They’d all be claiming common purpose if it turned out that Mbeki was right. We are lucky enough to not have to wait a half-century to establish that Mbeki’s leadership was a tragic failure on HIV/AIDS. However, he is not to blame all by himself.
Kholekile Tshunungwa on November 24th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Absolutely! An inflammatory, ill advised call! The Mbeki Cabinet/ANC were bloody minded in this regard - this is the one deadly serious blight on Mbeki’s ten (make that fifteen) year presidency. A class action is a reasonable option. That said it is mind blowing that thirty years into the age of HIV AIDS, indulgence in sex without condoms is the “norm” and utterly baffling promiscuous behaviour continues unabated. Wanton consumption of alcohol and an horrific increase in recreational drug abuse are well documented – a recipe for disaster when HIV AIDS lurks, ready to pounce when self control and inhibitions depart. Men and women are regularly date raped; hundreds of young children are molested, raped and murdered daily, often because they are not properly minded because parents are out of control, and thousands of young girls fall pregnant, some not knowing who the father is. Whilst fully acknowledging the role played by the Mbeki Cabinet at the outset, this reckless behaviour by South Africans leads me to ask when at least some responsibility for our dire HIV AIDS stats is going to be put at the door of reckless people who are unmoved despite the MASSIVE, ONGOING, HUGELY COSTLY drive by government / agencies / AIDS councils to adjust dangerous behaviors through education and information. Whist the providing of ARVS is morally and ethically right, millions and millions is spent that is so desperately needed for education, housing, general health……….When will we ever learn?
As for “ardent” supporter of the ANC let’s rather use the word “troubled”.
On many levels.
In terms of the value of the white community I stand firm on my submission that they are a major asset to the country.
Of course the fact that I must have written 50 - 60% of my columns in defence of the interests of the masses of this country is conveniently missed by you.
We’ve come a long road so I won’t patronise you.
I believe Mbeki’s legacy can only be protected if people stand up for him. Yes he made mistakes but he was one of - if not - the best president of South Africa.
I take huge flack for that view so whether you believe that my “hue” is the issue….tough.
On the ANC my support has earned flack from the whites and major sceptism from the blacks.
Yet I’ve never once asked for anything in return - Nothing, nil, zero.
Mr Trapido,Ive noticed that you didnt use that well travelled word “DENIALISM” in this article which is a favourate of “lazy and ideological” Journalists/Columnists who relish tarnishing people’s names with their lies.Luckly you have a Law degree to fall back on cos i have a feeling that you are about to find out(sooner or later) what the Mainstream media owners(with backing from their pharmaceutical friends) really think about your article.
In coming to judment whether genocide is the correct charge to levy, it is necessary to observe what actions were taken to prevent the deaths.
The link between hiv and aids was denied. The statistics were purposefully ‘doctored’ in-so-far as a death caused by TB was compelled to be recorded as a TB death, even though the cause was aids, this is the same as saying that a person who was shot, died because of blood loss and not because of the shooting. There was a recognition of a problem, aids medicine was classified as the ‘western nations’ trying to poison/kill the people of this country. Onions, garlic, potatoes, and high doses of vitamins, the vitamins promoted by a ‘charlaton’, in which the minister had a financial interest, were set forward as the way to go. This without any evidence. One is not required to comply with the majority of world opinion, see also Mugabe, however if you do so, you need to have cogent reasons to not follow the counsel given, and impeccable evidence or in this case trials before you do not implement was has already been proved to be effective. Was his the decision to deny treatment, to ignore the advice, to dabble in ‘charlatan’ medicine. Yes it was. Did this cause the deaths of countless citizens, yes it did.
It is just as if you pulled the trigger of the gun and you excuse yourself by sayiang the bullet killed, not me. Genocide.
“While the approach of the government to HIV/Aids may have been negligent, stubborn and even bloody-minded it was never their intention to harm the people of this country or any group hereof.”
i would have loved to see mbeki and manto defend themselves in court.perhaps this would send a clear message to present and future leaders that politicians should respect proffessional opinions.otherwise we may soon have school failures like malema going against opinions of economists and taking a lead in running our economy.the harm done to the country would be immeasurable.just look up north and see what mr’KNOW IT ALL’has done to his once prosperous country.
A few points to ponder and help lead you on a trail to do your own research:
A meeting was held in the West African city of Bangui in 1985 it was agreed to give black Africa it’s own unique definition of AIDS. They could not use the major indicator diseases of AIDS in the West, as these were mostly absent in Africa. They listed the symptoms of diseases then common in Africa and called them the diagnostic African AIDS indicator diseases.
There is not, nor ever has been, a test for AIDS.
There has never been a successful test for HIV (the virus that has never been proven to cause AIDS. The ELISA and Western Blot tests allegedly identify HIV antibodies that have been created by a person’s immune system in response to a HIV invasion. The test does not detect a virus, but only detect a lower or higher amount of antibodies. Never before was the presence of antibodies taken to be a prognostic of a future disease. (The truth about HIV, Steven Ransom)
The HIV tests attempt to identify an antibody response specific to HIV, but all the test kits disclaim their use as a sole diagnostic test for HIV. The Abbott Labs test kit includes the following disclaimer: “There is no recognized standard for establishing the presence or absence of HIV antibodies in human blood.”
Christine Johnson of Project Heal in Los Angeles has referenced sixty different conditions, which can cause a false HIV positive
Points to ponder continued:
This include flue, flue vaccinations, hepatitis, alcoholic liver disease, herpes etc.creating false positives. (Johnson, Christine: Continuum Sept 1996)
Research from Harvard University shows that diseases, common to the poorer communities, are known to cause false HIV positives. For example tuberculosis, parasitic infestations, malaria, hepatitis, leprosy etc
ARV’s are exceptionally toxic drugs, with debilitating side affects, attacking all replicating cells. They are not lifesaving, but in reality therapeutically useless, dangerously toxic and frequently lethal. (The Perth Group)
The Professor of Medicine at San Francisco General Hospital, Dr Donald Abrams reported: “I have a large population of “HIV positive” people, who have decided not to take any ARV’s. They have watched all their friends go on the ARV bandwagon and die.”
The reason why people feel initially better when they use the ARV’s:
Since ARV’s work by blocking the synthesis of DNA, the first cells that are eliminated are those that reproduce most often, such as bacteria. Therefore the drugs may seem initially beneficial, as they clear up many opportunistic infections. It is what happens after the so-called short-lived improvement that a question mark is placed.
If you read some of the side affects of ARV’s, it actually list one of side affects to be “AIDS related symptoms” – so chances are if you did not really have AIDS to start off with, you probably will have it really soon after ingesting ARV’s
(Excerpts from Biophile was used for the above)
Traps since when does the buck stops with everyone else in the government not the head of state? I wish you could engage in a principled debate rather than saying things because you can. You’re not doing justice to Mbeki by shifting the blame to others, there must be a better way of intervening on Mbeki’s behalf.
On of the interesting omissions on the ‘debate’ whether the former President and his administration should be indicted for genocide is the silence of the SACP. Are we to deduce from this silence that the Part support the YCL on this matter. Noting that when ANCYL President responded to the Deputy Secretary of SACP all formations of the Party commented - why is the Part silent on the genocide allegations.
on behalf of every hiv positive person who was denied free antiretorvirals at any time at any public clinic or hospital, i charge you as an accessory-after-the-fact to the commission of the crime of genocide, by virtue of your public justification of the attempt to justify the Mbeki administration’s position that…
1. there apparently was no evidence to suggest that a virus causes a syndrome
2. there apparently was no evidence to suggest that antiertrovirals were of any use in combating HIV or AIDS
3. there apparently was sufficient evidence to suggest that antiretorvirals were poisonous and deleterious to the welfare of the patient
and given that HIV-positivity defines a bio-chemical profile within the human being that distinguishes that person’s biology from that of a HIV-negative person, that in fact the wilful abrogation of the responsibility to ensure the welfare and health of the people of south africa was in fact focused solely on those people who fit into the “biologically defined” group of hiv-positive people, and just as there are biological differences between caucasian and african (altho marginal), such discrimination against hiv-positive people is genocide - whether the harm was caused intentionally or unintentionally.
>>> but you’re obviously just acting in the interests of your client - so why dont you tell the Ndebele people (who btw are also children of IsiZulu) that Bob Mugabe is not responsible for the genocide in Matabeleland in the early 1980’s
AIDS is money spinner, it was created to make profit. so mbeki was disturbing the production and sales of ARV’s by rejecting them to SA. the AID’s creators are inderectly pushing genocide charges to sunction the person who was on their way or disturbing income from ARV’s. it is very much important to understand how cruel is money made.
I’m thoroughly convinced that Aids is a mental desease/psycological warfare weapon. But what has been really bothering my mind was how is it that most people of the world believe in its ligimacy as a genuine desease caused by a virus. I’ve come to a certain conclusion that, in fact amongst the ignorant bunch there are those who know the real deal about aids and are just on quest for ethnic cleansing. For instance, its either you are very ignorant or a very bad person who is going streight to hell -metaphorically- to actually be still preaching the existance of Aids. I mean after all the abondance of evidence that aids was proposed a decade earlier before it even existed and that initially respetable people are being blacklisted for actually just questioning the legitimacy of this HIV/Aids. See Kary Banks Mullis and Wangari Muta Maathai.
Mullis wrote in an introduction to Duesberg’s Inventing the Aids Virus (1997), “No one has ever proven that HIV causes AIDS. We have not been able to discover any good reasons why most of the people on earth believe that AIDS is a disease caused by a virus called HIV.”[12] Mullis has stated that AIDS is an arbitrary diagnosis in which common medical conditions are mislabeled as AIDS when antibodies to HIV are found in a patient.[13] Medical and scientific consensus rejects such statements as disproven.
Of course AIDS is emotive, as is hunger in Kenya, Zimbabwe and a host of other African countries. Don’t see anyone there talking genocide, although they have better reason.
Mbeki, despite a very advantaged education, still got it horribly wrong, which gives every South African a huge voting responsibility. It’s time we all thought for ourselves, rather than rely on the word of often Godless gods.
Another thing that I believe no one has really got through to the voting public, despite all the AIDS campaigns, is that the reason we are told not to have more than one partner is because varied strains of the disease can make its ravages far worse. In fact, you can catch the virus at your first encounter; any further encounters increase the amounts of virus in your system and make recovery (even with ARVs) far less possible. So, like taking poison: take a small amount, you’ll get sick. Take more, you get sicker and take even more, you will surely die!
It’s a bit like adding ordinary flu and then swine flu to a common cold; sooner or later, pneumonia is inevitable and that’s what’ll kill you.
ARVs are also not a cure and if your health is already chronic, they don’t get time to help. They should be taken when a CD count hits 350, not when it is already at 200, the figure the government uses.
Good stuff Traps, although I don’t share your admiration for Mbkeki. I also do not admire the ANC nor any of its current, former or deceased members.
But I agree that however stupid or dof the actions of Mbkeki and his cabinet with regard to HIV/Aids and many other issues were, they should not be charged with genocide. But there must be some accountability for acting in a way that flies in the face of reasonability - perhaps there was an ulterior motive.
A class action suit against the government AND the ANC as suggested by you could work for me. Whatever happens, as a taxpayer I am still liable to pay for the ANC’s exercises in futility or the cost of these.
Controversy arose after the announcement of the Nobel award, when it was reported by The Standard that Maathai had claimed HIV/AIDS was “deliberately created by Western scientists to decimate the African population.”[60] Maathai denied making the allegations, but The Standard has stood by its reports.[60]
In a 2004 interview with Time Magazine, in response to questions concerning that report, Maathai replied, “I have no idea who created AIDS and whether it is a biological agent or not. But I do know things like that don’t come from the moon. I have always thought that it is important to tell people the truth, but I guess there is some truth that must not be too exposed,” and when asked what she meant, she continued, “I’m referring to AIDS. I am sure people know where it came from. And I’m quite sure it did not come from the monkeys.”[61]
In response she issued the following statement:
“ I have warned people against false beliefs and misinformation such as attributing this disease to a curse from God or believing that sleeping with a virgin cures the infection. These prevalent beliefs in my region have led to an upsurge in rape and violence against children. It is within this context, also complicated by the cultural and religious perspective, that I often speak. I have therefore been shocked by the ongoing debate generated by what I am purported to have said. It is therefore critical for me to state that
This culture of shifting blame never ceases to amaze me.
So now because Mbeki questioned the HIV/AIDS link, we want to blame the poor guy for all the people that supposedly died of AIDS.
Maybe those people should learn to take responsibility for their own actions. If someone has been reckless and contracted the dread desease, they should accept their part in it and do whatever it takes to try to survive. If the govement can help, its a bonus, and if not, then life must still go on, or maybe end - thats just the way it is.
In any case, it has not been conclusively proved that things could have gone the other way had Mbeki’s position been different.
Instead of wasting our energies trying pile the blame on Tboss, we should be focusing all our reasources on creating a much more sustainable system for future management of epidermics of this nature.
MLH, How did you come to the conclusion that when “you can catch the virus at your first encounter; any further encounters increase the amounts of virus in your system and make recovery (even with ARVs) far less possible”? What method did you use to actually study that? Because to me you don’t make any sense. I can’t even dispute such nonsense.
When this whole debate started many years ago, I was also one of the many people that believed that President Mbeki’s and the government’s take on AIDS was totally ludicrous. Today however, I truly belief today that Mbeki and his administration had the people South Africa’s best interests at heart when they stood in the way of ARV’s.
Don’t accept what the mainstream media is feeding you. The mainstream media are serving the interests of the super rich of the world – the controllers of the banks, the pharmaceutical industries etc. The pharmaceutical companies are in business to make money and serve the hidden agendas of the previously mentioned power grid. If you do your research you will find that they certainly do not have your health or well being at heart. To the contrary, the more people that die from AIDS and ARV’s, the closer they come to their objective of an 80% population reduction for the world (this goal of the 80% population reduction is well documented.
There is so much information about the AIDS/HIV scandal and how life threatening ARV’s are, that I am very grateful towards the previous administration. I believe it would have been irresponsible and immensely cruel to make drugs available to the ignorant masses that could kill them, while these poor people are indoctrinated that these drugs is their only chance on survival.
Candy Rover - is it possible for you to disclose your involvement with HIV AIDS and / or your qualification / work. You seem to speak with great authority on the subject and have such contrary views to the mainstream it would be good to know from whence you come in terms of expertise. I’m always a bit weary of conspiracy theories and honestly feel ashamed as a South African of our initial take on HIV AIDS but you sound so convincing I’m interested to know where you are coming from. At this stage you are certainly on the fringe..
Let go of past affections and return to the satirical. Thabo who? He and Manto did more than the French physicians who went to jail in France for not using correct procedures which led to haemophiliacs being infected in Europe and elsewhere. The head of the transfusion service did serious time. So we do have lower standards of justice for the politicals here. I must go there’s a chopper chasing Hijackers over my house and interrupting my thoughts…….. anyone have an of those these days I mean thoughts? Sweet thoughts …. David
Rose Morrow, shouldn’t you ask each and everyone here who are on both sides of the debate about their expertise and where they come from? You seem to be threatened by the exposure of the Aids fraud with your biased inquisition
Not at all Lesego! This is a genuine inquiry. (I am firmly in the Mbeki camp and secretly it would please me if he were ultimately proved right! but you would know of my stance on Mbeki having read many of the other posts I have submitted on Michael’s blog). Currently I hold an opinion about HIV AIDS that falls in with mainstream scientists but that in no way makes me an expert on the subject. I am not a scientist or HIV AIDS specialist. I base my opinion on what I read - I have not studied HIV AIDS professionally so I cannot speak assertively no proper in depth knowledge. From various publications and interviews I read/hear that HIV leads to AIDS and that ARVs are the way to go. Very occasionally I read or hear something from the opposite camp. I would like to know whether Candy Rover is speaking from a similar perspective - i.e. she reads and gleans what she can - or is she working in the field as an AIDS specialist/scientific researcher. If it is the latter then I need to interrogate my currently held opinion - she seems so completely sure which conveys to me at least that she works in the field. I am always open to interrogation of and adjustment to my opinion on this topic provided the shift is based on hard and fast scientifically held facts.
Suppose contributory manslaughter is the better term here legally and I like the idea of breadwinner compensation where refusal to treat is proven. Just seems fair problem is timing makes it difficult should be launched on behalf of children dependents really. Must be still quite a few of those fairly young enough to be deserving and benefit in some way. Probably best launched against current state too rather than individuals as there is a total spread of compromise in the refusal to treat down to doctors instrucd not to and not supplied with the drugs etc. But crazy ideas need to be dealt with when they impact on peoples lives. What crazy ideas are awaiting SA’s people in the future. Thabo doesn’t have to be made into the Tokoloshe but a judicial commission of inquiry will set the record straight on the realtionship of medical science to society. We could get a lot of direction out of clear reflection. Blame –its very late in the day and the government and we were all responsible for our fellow citizens and fellow humanity. In the French case of the haemophiliacs the responsibility crossed borders and to those hapless victims beyond borders because of negligent plasma processing and exports. I think compensation there was important too. Where real need has arisen as a result of a contributory negligence on the part of bad governance compensation should be granted. Basic delictual law. We vote in bad governance wepay tax. David. think next time.
Thank you for your comments. I personally do not have the credentials that you mentioned that you needed, before you could “interrogate your currently held opinion” as you put it.
However, there are hundreds of well-credentialed scientists that have competently scientifically criticized the HIV/AIDS hypothesis. The last time that I read about the subject, it was said that more than 2300 people, mostly scientists and doctors, including Nobel Laureates in Chemistry and Medicine, have signed a petition of the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS hypothesis.
If you are prepared to disclose a postal address, I would very much like to send you a DVD (free of charge off course), in which eminent scientists are being interviewed with regards to the HIV/AIDS issue. After you have had the opportunity to listen to the scientific facts from the scientists themselves, you just might decide it warrants further investigation on your part.
Rose Morrow, don’t you assume an Aids specialist to be someone believing in the existance of Aids? I mean you wouldn’t expect someone who studies UFO to be a UFO denialist. Peter Duesberg,who claims that HIV is harmless and not the cause of AIDS is a professor of molecular and cell biology, best known for identifying and mapping the src gene.
Thank you Lesego. The pharmaceutical companies will have the most te lose if these facts were allowed to circulate the mainstream media and the AIDS specialists will be unemployed, is it not?
If anybody are interested in the DVD about the HIV/AIDS issue, mentioned in my post to Rose Morrow, you can send a postal address to candyrover@ymail.com
I am no fan of the Mbeki eras disgusting approach to such a human issue, but there would be no point in this genocide matter. What would it solve? Nothing. Besides why Mbeki and not Manto? She is the most culpable surely?
Rather as suggested elsewhere above, all the families who lost breadwinners etc should make a joint civil claim agains the government for recompense. It wont bring anyone back, but it may improve their present circumstances. The government failed them in the worst way possible.
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By trade a criminal attorney he is now a politcal commentator and journalist full time.
"Traps Report" on the Richmark Sentinel is probably the largest news aggregator in the world. That includes Google, Huffington Post and Drudge.
If you click on the links of the Traps Report you should be up to date on all the latest news worldwide as well as local.
He is a director of the firm Turnbull and Associates.
He was born in Johannesburg and attended HA Jack and Highlands North High Schools. He married Robyn in 1984 (Mrs Traps, aka "the government") and has three sons (who all look suspiciously like her ex-boss).
He was a counsellor on the JCCI for a year around 1992.
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[…] Thought Leader » Michael Trapido » Mbeki not a candidate for genocide charges www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/23/mbeki-is-not-a-candidate-for-genocide-charges – view page – cached My regulars know that I’m a fan of former president Thabo Mbeki and as such I thought it best that I give the rest of you the heads-up before starting this discussion. Of course that does not mean… Read moreMy regulars know that I’m a fan of former president Thabo Mbeki and as such I thought it best that I give the rest of you the heads-up before starting this discussion. Of course that does not mean I am unaware of his faults, the worst of which was his administration’s approach to the question of Read less […]
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