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	<title>Comments on: JZ must take hard line against Malema</title>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-104116</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-104116</guid>
		<description>Fellowfighter if incitement to violence, squandering of public money, insulting the elders of your party and slandering other politicians is your idea of the kind of behaviour future leaders should exhibit then I regard you with the same contempt I regard JM. He has not said one intelligent thing in his life, his followers giggle at his boorish rantings like the children that they are. JM Does not play the ball. Fellowfighter don&#039;t be a hypocrite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellowfighter if incitement to violence, squandering of public money, insulting the elders of your party and slandering other politicians is your idea of the kind of behaviour future leaders should exhibit then I regard you with the same contempt I regard JM. He has not said one intelligent thing in his life, his followers giggle at his boorish rantings like the children that they are. JM Does not play the ball. Fellowfighter don&#8217;t be a hypocrite.</p>
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		<title>By: fellowfighter</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-104006</link>
		<dc:creator>fellowfighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-104006</guid>
		<description>Play the ball not the man. Issues raised by JM during the past weeks is trying to bring this country into academic jimnastic. Fellow South African, it is time to free yourself from mental imprisonment by doing self introspection. 

The author and commentators above are waisting  time insulting each other, beacuse of other peoples opinion.Business school has tought me never to argue with peoples opinion because you can never change it, even though they influence are day 2 day life.

I would like to invite you to our branch meeting for orientantion on the character and culture of this great movement the ANC.It is not our norm to be passive and take what ever we receive as correct, but we are trained to be assertive, inovative get involves with the day 2 day  community issues. 

Issues raised by JM are collectively owned by the leadership of the youth movement.As madelakhufa of the ANC,we will continue to build the organisation in all corners of the country and defend the gains achieved. JM and the leadership of the Youth League are indeed role models for the SA. 

Other organisation even want to contribute in the nationalisation document to be presented to NEC of the ANC.

Don&#039;t count JM and his leadership out of SA&#039;s democratic debates.ANCYL is part of the force for change in SA.This is not theory,because I&#039;m walking the talk as former student leadership at CPUT.Aluta!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Play the ball not the man. Issues raised by JM during the past weeks is trying to bring this country into academic jimnastic. Fellow South African, it is time to free yourself from mental imprisonment by doing self introspection. </p>
<p>The author and commentators above are waisting  time insulting each other, beacuse of other peoples opinion.Business school has tought me never to argue with peoples opinion because you can never change it, even though they influence are day 2 day life.</p>
<p>I would like to invite you to our branch meeting for orientantion on the character and culture of this great movement the ANC.It is not our norm to be passive and take what ever we receive as correct, but we are trained to be assertive, inovative get involves with the day 2 day  community issues. </p>
<p>Issues raised by JM are collectively owned by the leadership of the youth movement.As madelakhufa of the ANC,we will continue to build the organisation in all corners of the country and defend the gains achieved. JM and the leadership of the Youth League are indeed role models for the SA. </p>
<p>Other organisation even want to contribute in the nationalisation document to be presented to NEC of the ANC.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t count JM and his leadership out of SA&#8217;s democratic debates.ANCYL is part of the force for change in SA.This is not theory,because I&#8217;m walking the talk as former student leadership at CPUT.Aluta!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sipho M</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102719</link>
		<dc:creator>Sipho M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102719</guid>
		<description>it a pity that when you you read a comment before you can see the name you already know the colour of the commentator. I believe South Africa needs to unite and stop  playing kids game and try to focus on what we have rather than fighting each other. I don&#039;t believe that we cannot live well life without whites, whereas I don&#039;t believe that whites stand in our way for our future.

It a fact that Europeans are racist. Look at Africa, China, America and Austria you will get what I&#039;m talking about. Look at the history and you will see that they run for resources and go back to their countries. 

Due to the fact that we have a this history which I believe hinders the good communication pattern let our leaders as Mandela and De-Clark does called the free South African without race because we are preparing our future and our generations.

SiphoM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it a pity that when you you read a comment before you can see the name you already know the colour of the commentator. I believe South Africa needs to unite and stop  playing kids game and try to focus on what we have rather than fighting each other. I don&#8217;t believe that we cannot live well life without whites, whereas I don&#8217;t believe that whites stand in our way for our future.</p>
<p>It a fact that Europeans are racist. Look at Africa, China, America and Austria you will get what I&#8217;m talking about. Look at the history and you will see that they run for resources and go back to their countries. </p>
<p>Due to the fact that we have a this history which I believe hinders the good communication pattern let our leaders as Mandela and De-Clark does called the free South African without race because we are preparing our future and our generations.</p>
<p>SiphoM</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102672</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102672</guid>
		<description>Jody you can&#039;t be serious in saying Zim would not be a bad way to go? Don&#039;t you think a structured plan to transfer land and skills to black farmers would have been the right thing to do and would have made Zim a better place for everyone? Mugabe didn&#039;t do that. He took out his blunt instruments to beat out the white farmer and now they can&#039;t produce enough to feed themselves or their foreign exchange reserves, and 3 mil zimbabweans are now living a precarious existence in SA to escape the troubles at home. 

Now wouldn&#039;t it have been better to say hey, we need each other lets respect each other and work together to make this country work, not &quot;screw you we don&#039;t need you now piss off to Australia&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jody you can&#8217;t be serious in saying Zim would not be a bad way to go? Don&#8217;t you think a structured plan to transfer land and skills to black farmers would have been the right thing to do and would have made Zim a better place for everyone? Mugabe didn&#8217;t do that. He took out his blunt instruments to beat out the white farmer and now they can&#8217;t produce enough to feed themselves or their foreign exchange reserves, and 3 mil zimbabweans are now living a precarious existence in SA to escape the troubles at home. </p>
<p>Now wouldn&#8217;t it have been better to say hey, we need each other lets respect each other and work together to make this country work, not &#8220;screw you we don&#8217;t need you now piss off to Australia&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102668</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102668</guid>
		<description>@ mike 

agreed, this goverment is indeed corrupt, ineffectual in reducing poverty and has practically made no dent in INEQUALITY in this country...

They are trying hard to de-racialize the bourgeoisie so that capitalism can in fact be legitimized ..which of course is silly, the black bourgeoisie act no different from their white counterparts...In my opinion Malema is calling for nationalization to legitimize capitalism even more, not for the people &quot;to share is wealth of the country&quot;...He wants reform, not real change and is playing oN racial feelings and racial identification to spur things up a bit..

All agreed, please dont keep quite for the fear that you might be called a racist..

However the paradigm through which you view and criticize the issue is problematic:

1)Racism is a system of oppression (based on race)...In order to oppress you must have the power to oppress and to materialize your sentiments!There might be a black government, however when i walk around in my (former, but still) white suburb, from time to time the patrolling police/ADT gurads ask me &#039;where do you live, the address please&#039;...if a wallet goes missing at a house party, chances are the black dude would be suspected first..thats racism mike, no ugly name calling, just structural and institutional frameworks that OPPRESS! 

2)Indicating White folk reaction to the issue will be to leave(with their skills)/separate is basically a (white) threat, thats why we wonder, what informs your thinkingmike?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ mike </p>
<p>agreed, this goverment is indeed corrupt, ineffectual in reducing poverty and has practically made no dent in INEQUALITY in this country&#8230;</p>
<p>They are trying hard to de-racialize the bourgeoisie so that capitalism can in fact be legitimized ..which of course is silly, the black bourgeoisie act no different from their white counterparts&#8230;In my opinion Malema is calling for nationalization to legitimize capitalism even more, not for the people &#8220;to share is wealth of the country&#8221;&#8230;He wants reform, not real change and is playing oN racial feelings and racial identification to spur things up a bit..</p>
<p>All agreed, please dont keep quite for the fear that you might be called a racist..</p>
<p>However the paradigm through which you view and criticize the issue is problematic:</p>
<p>1)Racism is a system of oppression (based on race)&#8230;In order to oppress you must have the power to oppress and to materialize your sentiments!There might be a black government, however when i walk around in my (former, but still) white suburb, from time to time the patrolling police/ADT gurads ask me &#8216;where do you live, the address please&#8217;&#8230;if a wallet goes missing at a house party, chances are the black dude would be suspected first..thats racism mike, no ugly name calling, just structural and institutional frameworks that OPPRESS! </p>
<p>2)Indicating White folk reaction to the issue will be to leave(with their skills)/separate is basically a (white) threat, thats why we wonder, what informs your thinkingmike?</p>
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		<title>By: Tebza</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102624</link>
		<dc:creator>Tebza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102624</guid>
		<description>Genuine concerns regarding racist tendencies from some of our white counterparts always seem to elicit the same worn and weary threat: &quot;We will leave with our civilization, skills, expertise and whatever else we, the white folks, believe we have brought this dark continent, and you folks (read africans) will be left to rape, pillage, and hopefully eventually starve to death or decimate each other for you know no better. That Bullard fellow spewed the same bile and soon had to find his UIF card. Methinks that this is typical of bullies. It is either their way of the highway. Well, you know what; time has come for us to call your bluff. Leave if you so wish. We are no longer going to be cowed into submission through hollow threats. Besides, as one of the commentators to the above article has already pointed out; white people are not a homogenious species. Some will choose to stay whilst we welcome new white folks to come in and and unite with us in building this beautiful country of ours.

The sad part is that those unreformed souls simply take their prejudices to countries such as Nigeria, Malawi, DRC etc under a misguided belief that they are indespensible, and the authorities in those countries will overlook how they illtreat locals in the quest to keep their so-called skills. I have news for anyone harbouring any such naive ideas: YOU ARE TOLD TO EITHER REFORM OR BE DEPORTED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Genuine concerns regarding racist tendencies from some of our white counterparts always seem to elicit the same worn and weary threat: &#8220;We will leave with our civilization, skills, expertise and whatever else we, the white folks, believe we have brought this dark continent, and you folks (read africans) will be left to rape, pillage, and hopefully eventually starve to death or decimate each other for you know no better. That Bullard fellow spewed the same bile and soon had to find his UIF card. Methinks that this is typical of bullies. It is either their way of the highway. Well, you know what; time has come for us to call your bluff. Leave if you so wish. We are no longer going to be cowed into submission through hollow threats. Besides, as one of the commentators to the above article has already pointed out; white people are not a homogenious species. Some will choose to stay whilst we welcome new white folks to come in and and unite with us in building this beautiful country of ours.</p>
<p>The sad part is that those unreformed souls simply take their prejudices to countries such as Nigeria, Malawi, DRC etc under a misguided belief that they are indespensible, and the authorities in those countries will overlook how they illtreat locals in the quest to keep their so-called skills. I have news for anyone harbouring any such naive ideas: YOU ARE TOLD TO EITHER REFORM OR BE DEPORTED.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Trapido</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102614</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Trapido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102614</guid>
		<description>Jody you make some valid points.

In terms of the imbalance and as part of my pre-election comment I said &quot;vote ANC&#039;&#039; and retain BEE and affirmative action.

They are necessary to address the very imbalances you talk about.

While the ANC has many problems - which I point out daily - they are a black government who will look after the masses before a white government as history has shown.

However where certain elite get all the plum positions and corruption reduces the effect of the above (in the tens of billions) then people have to speak up.

All of the above is on record just scroll back.

Quite a point of departure for a supremacist, racist.

That said I see white professors, doctors, sportsmen, businessmen, engineers and the like earning kudos for their new countries.

As such I am making the point that I do not want to add to that number.

I accept that I&#039;m a populist - I support Mbeki in the Zuma era, Affirmative Action and BEE PLUS accelerated land redistribution which are very popular among whites.

But let me do one piece standing up for the whites and I&#039;m a racist.

If I&#039;m a racist God help us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jody you make some valid points.</p>
<p>In terms of the imbalance and as part of my pre-election comment I said &#8220;vote ANC&#8221; and retain BEE and affirmative action.</p>
<p>They are necessary to address the very imbalances you talk about.</p>
<p>While the ANC has many problems &#8211; which I point out daily &#8211; they are a black government who will look after the masses before a white government as history has shown.</p>
<p>However where certain elite get all the plum positions and corruption reduces the effect of the above (in the tens of billions) then people have to speak up.</p>
<p>All of the above is on record just scroll back.</p>
<p>Quite a point of departure for a supremacist, racist.</p>
<p>That said I see white professors, doctors, sportsmen, businessmen, engineers and the like earning kudos for their new countries.</p>
<p>As such I am making the point that I do not want to add to that number.</p>
<p>I accept that I&#8217;m a populist &#8211; I support Mbeki in the Zuma era, Affirmative Action and BEE PLUS accelerated land redistribution which are very popular among whites.</p>
<p>But let me do one piece standing up for the whites and I&#8217;m a racist.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m a racist God help us.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102611</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102611</guid>
		<description>I interpret the recent statements of Mr Malema rather more subtly as an attempt to (1) provide an Africanist counterweight to the rising power of the left and the unions in the new ANC and (2) to capitalise on the vacuum left by the disappearance of the Mbeki Africanist clique (Mr Roberts, Ms Qunta). It&#039;s part of the ongoing battle for the heart and soul of the movement, and a shrewd testing of the waters. However I agree that Mr Zuma needs to show thought leadership from the front and set hos own agenda rather than being dictated to by whichever of the above groups has the most influence at a point in time. The social democratic centre would provide a good place to return to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I interpret the recent statements of Mr Malema rather more subtly as an attempt to (1) provide an Africanist counterweight to the rising power of the left and the unions in the new ANC and (2) to capitalise on the vacuum left by the disappearance of the Mbeki Africanist clique (Mr Roberts, Ms Qunta). It&#8217;s part of the ongoing battle for the heart and soul of the movement, and a shrewd testing of the waters. However I agree that Mr Zuma needs to show thought leadership from the front and set hos own agenda rather than being dictated to by whichever of the above groups has the most influence at a point in time. The social democratic centre would provide a good place to return to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102607</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102607</guid>
		<description>First of all, apartheid didn&#039;t end because white folk woke up one day and realized the depth of their destructive way.There was no conscious raising on their part, it ended simply because apartheid became socially and economically &quot;unsustainable&quot;, so excuse us blacks for harboring  racial feelings...

The people who hold political power are overwhelmingly black, however the people who hold economical power are overwhelmingly white..If we agree that economic power pulls the most weight throughout/in the world today, it naturally follows that whites hold the larger portion of power in this country...As is simply illustrated by the fact that approx 80% of the land in country is in white hands..

So Mike, you rightly indicate that the white folk have the economic power, but that&#039;s exactly why us black folk stand firm in our contempt of white privilege and abundance..thats exactly why whites leaving is kind of not that bad you know - I&#039;d like the power in the country of my ancestors thank you very much!

Now, a white exodus is something white folk fear for obvious reasons, seriously where will you go? you have other home. Stop projecting that fear onto us!!We dont fear that Mike, seriously we dont..even Zim. will improve in 10 years time, countries rise and fall and it wouldn&#039;t be any different, If all those (monopolizing)white capitalists&amp; white supremacists left it would actually be exciting to start an inclusive country afresh, dont you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, apartheid didn&#8217;t end because white folk woke up one day and realized the depth of their destructive way.There was no conscious raising on their part, it ended simply because apartheid became socially and economically &#8220;unsustainable&#8221;, so excuse us blacks for harboring  racial feelings&#8230;</p>
<p>The people who hold political power are overwhelmingly black, however the people who hold economical power are overwhelmingly white..If we agree that economic power pulls the most weight throughout/in the world today, it naturally follows that whites hold the larger portion of power in this country&#8230;As is simply illustrated by the fact that approx 80% of the land in country is in white hands..</p>
<p>So Mike, you rightly indicate that the white folk have the economic power, but that&#8217;s exactly why us black folk stand firm in our contempt of white privilege and abundance..thats exactly why whites leaving is kind of not that bad you know &#8211; I&#8217;d like the power in the country of my ancestors thank you very much!</p>
<p>Now, a white exodus is something white folk fear for obvious reasons, seriously where will you go? you have other home. Stop projecting that fear onto us!!We dont fear that Mike, seriously we dont..even Zim. will improve in 10 years time, countries rise and fall and it wouldn&#8217;t be any different, If all those (monopolizing)white capitalists&amp; white supremacists left it would actually be exciting to start an inclusive country afresh, dont you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Johan Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-102590</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/11/22/yclsa-ancyl-dispute-highlights-racism/#comment-102590</guid>
		<description>@Spoiler
Perhaps among the young, who grew up after much of the infrastructure was left to rot, e.g. due to lack of funding, wars, etc. or the ventures simply went bankrupt, e.g. the textile industries that collapsed with the likes of Salvation Army flooding west-African markets with used clothes, and among the Northerners, where there never was much industry or infrastructure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Spoiler<br />
Perhaps among the young, who grew up after much of the infrastructure was left to rot, e.g. due to lack of funding, wars, etc. or the ventures simply went bankrupt, e.g. the textile industries that collapsed with the likes of Salvation Army flooding west-African markets with used clothes, and among the Northerners, where there never was much industry or infrastructure.</p>
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