<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Obama chimpanzee cartoon is clearly racist</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-72525</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-72525</guid>
		<description>I will admit, when I first saw the article, I thought it implied that a monkey had written the &quot;stimulus&quot; bill, and did not think about Obama at all, only after seeing a couple sites exploding over it, which if Obama did write the bill, I can see. However, Bush was so often made to look like, and called a monkey. It just isn&#039;t a fair standard...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will admit, when I first saw the article, I thought it implied that a monkey had written the &#8220;stimulus&#8221; bill, and did not think about Obama at all, only after seeing a couple sites exploding over it, which if Obama did write the bill, I can see. However, Bush was so often made to look like, and called a monkey. It just isn&#8217;t a fair standard&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-72428</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-72428</guid>
		<description>Apparently there is a similar fuss going aon about the latest UCT Sax Appeal magazine being &quot;blasphemous&quot;.

Anyone know what that is about? All news reports are too vaque to make any sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently there is a similar fuss going aon about the latest UCT Sax Appeal magazine being &#8220;blasphemous&#8221;.</p>
<p>Anyone know what that is about? All news reports are too vaque to make any sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oldfox</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-72102</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-72102</guid>
		<description>Mandela did not appear upset about the morph clip.
(I did not expect him to make a fuss about it either)

The clip was discovered on a computer at police headquarters in Pretoria this week.
Asked for his reaction, Mandela quipped to journalists: &quot;I think gorillas would like to have my face.
www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&amp;click_id=13&amp;art_id=qw96885954085B255</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandela did not appear upset about the morph clip.<br />
(I did not expect him to make a fuss about it either)</p>
<p>The clip was discovered on a computer at police headquarters in Pretoria this week.<br />
Asked for his reaction, Mandela quipped to journalists: &#8220;I think gorillas would like to have my face.<br />
<a href="http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=qw96885954085B255" rel="nofollow">http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=qw96885954085B255</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Siobhan</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71945</link>
		<dc:creator>Siobhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71945</guid>
		<description>Traps:   &quot;Guys just a point on Bush. Being compared to a primate is not stereotypical racism in the case of whites.&quot;

I must admit to bafflement on this one. I do not recall any references to black people as &#039;apes&#039; or &#039;monkeys&#039; when I growing up in the 50s and 60s.  To establish the legitimacy of the claim that these comparisons are more commonly applied to black people, I would have to do substantial research on the historicity of racial insults by means of comparison with animals. 

I am, however, quite familiar with the use of ape-human cartoons dating from the mid-19th century and focusing on Darwin&#039;s &quot;Origin of Species&quot;.   The vast library of cartoons from that era portray Darwin as one or another form of ape.  Likewise, those who supported Darwin in the century and more of debate ever since were liable to such protrayals.

Almost every politician I can think of in both US and UK history has been portrayed as an ape when critics derided their tactics or policies .  &quot;Punch&quot; is replete with such portrayals.  Blatant racism marked the era of Benjamin Disraeli, for example, who was subjected to every possible insult during his long career.  Clarence Darrow, the brilliant attorney who defended the biology teacher in the famous &#039;Scopes Monkey Trial&#039; in the US in the 1920s was viciously attacked in the tabloids of the day and portrayed as an ape almost every time they printed a story or a cartoon featuring Darrow.

I&#039;m old enough to remember the fracas surrounding Louis and Mary Leakey in the early 50s when her discovery in the Olduvai Gorge in Kenya of the oldest anthropoid remains confirmed the theory that the species Homo-erectus/ Homo-sapiens arose in Africa and all humans are descended from that common ancestor.  

As a child I had no idea what all the fuss was about. It was just interesting and exciting that a scientist had made such a huge discovery.  (Of course, it would be a decade before I learned that her husband got the credit for it despite the fact that it was Mary Leakey who discovered the remains).

Obviously, there was another issue in this mix of science and history of which I was ignorant--the apparent use of primate imagery to disparage people of African descent in particular.  It still makes no sense to me given that we are all descended from a common African ancestor.  As such, imagery of humans as apes is either equally insulting to all races or fails as an insult because we all share the same genetic history.

There is an alternate theory of evolution that posits--quite convincingly--that humans are in fact descended from sea mammals. If we were portrayed as Orcas, or baracudas or sharks--and humans frequently are so portrayed--would we be making a racial issue of it?  

But all of this begs the question.  Why is it that black people are more offended by imagery comparing them to apes than whites are?   Apes have no more control over their colour than humans do and we are all capable of acting with less than &#039;human&#039; dignity at times--as Mr. Malema has demonstrated repeatedly.  He also used the chimpanzee comparison in trying to insult other black people.  If anything, he was advertising his lack of originality and wit by choosing such an apparently cliched insult.

As for the NY Post cartoon. I found it off-point to an amazingly stupid degree. A bit like adolescent humour at its crudist.  I guess I find stupidity as offensive as racism: the two do seem to be inseparably linked...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traps:   &#8220;Guys just a point on Bush. Being compared to a primate is not stereotypical racism in the case of whites.&#8221;</p>
<p>I must admit to bafflement on this one. I do not recall any references to black people as &#8216;apes&#8217; or &#8216;monkeys&#8217; when I growing up in the 50s and 60s.  To establish the legitimacy of the claim that these comparisons are more commonly applied to black people, I would have to do substantial research on the historicity of racial insults by means of comparison with animals. </p>
<p>I am, however, quite familiar with the use of ape-human cartoons dating from the mid-19th century and focusing on Darwin&#8217;s &#8220;Origin of Species&#8221;.   The vast library of cartoons from that era portray Darwin as one or another form of ape.  Likewise, those who supported Darwin in the century and more of debate ever since were liable to such protrayals.</p>
<p>Almost every politician I can think of in both US and UK history has been portrayed as an ape when critics derided their tactics or policies .  &#8220;Punch&#8221; is replete with such portrayals.  Blatant racism marked the era of Benjamin Disraeli, for example, who was subjected to every possible insult during his long career.  Clarence Darrow, the brilliant attorney who defended the biology teacher in the famous &#8216;Scopes Monkey Trial&#8217; in the US in the 1920s was viciously attacked in the tabloids of the day and portrayed as an ape almost every time they printed a story or a cartoon featuring Darrow.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m old enough to remember the fracas surrounding Louis and Mary Leakey in the early 50s when her discovery in the Olduvai Gorge in Kenya of the oldest anthropoid remains confirmed the theory that the species Homo-erectus/ Homo-sapiens arose in Africa and all humans are descended from that common ancestor.  </p>
<p>As a child I had no idea what all the fuss was about. It was just interesting and exciting that a scientist had made such a huge discovery.  (Of course, it would be a decade before I learned that her husband got the credit for it despite the fact that it was Mary Leakey who discovered the remains).</p>
<p>Obviously, there was another issue in this mix of science and history of which I was ignorant&#8211;the apparent use of primate imagery to disparage people of African descent in particular.  It still makes no sense to me given that we are all descended from a common African ancestor.  As such, imagery of humans as apes is either equally insulting to all races or fails as an insult because we all share the same genetic history.</p>
<p>There is an alternate theory of evolution that posits&#8211;quite convincingly&#8211;that humans are in fact descended from sea mammals. If we were portrayed as Orcas, or baracudas or sharks&#8211;and humans frequently are so portrayed&#8211;would we be making a racial issue of it?  </p>
<p>But all of this begs the question.  Why is it that black people are more offended by imagery comparing them to apes than whites are?   Apes have no more control over their colour than humans do and we are all capable of acting with less than &#8216;human&#8217; dignity at times&#8211;as Mr. Malema has demonstrated repeatedly.  He also used the chimpanzee comparison in trying to insult other black people.  If anything, he was advertising his lack of originality and wit by choosing such an apparently cliched insult.</p>
<p>As for the NY Post cartoon. I found it off-point to an amazingly stupid degree. A bit like adolescent humour at its crudist.  I guess I find stupidity as offensive as racism: the two do seem to be inseparably linked&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71940</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71940</guid>
		<description>I think its much ado about nothing, really, and this is just endemic of the entire world’s attitude of “lets not offend, anyone, ever” and are so scared something may be seen as offensive, we all climb on the overly-politically-correct band wagon  (With warning labels, safety belts and mandatory insurance).

To me, the cartoon says that the bailout plan/stimulus bill is so idiotic, it could have been written by a monkey.  (As a reborn capitalist, I agree).  It insults the bill, and poked fun at that, the fact that Obama is black, is co-incidental, and the joke would have been the same had it been Dubbya or John McCain.  Its got nothing to do with a racial overtone, but with the stupidity of bailing out failing companies – a debate on its own.  But we’re so bloody conditioned to see offence in everything, the 12st thing we see is “racist” when I don’t believe that was the point at all!

PS – I don’t expect my opinion to be popular or garner support!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its much ado about nothing, really, and this is just endemic of the entire world’s attitude of “lets not offend, anyone, ever” and are so scared something may be seen as offensive, we all climb on the overly-politically-correct band wagon  (With warning labels, safety belts and mandatory insurance).</p>
<p>To me, the cartoon says that the bailout plan/stimulus bill is so idiotic, it could have been written by a monkey.  (As a reborn capitalist, I agree).  It insults the bill, and poked fun at that, the fact that Obama is black, is co-incidental, and the joke would have been the same had it been Dubbya or John McCain.  Its got nothing to do with a racial overtone, but with the stupidity of bailing out failing companies – a debate on its own.  But we’re so bloody conditioned to see offence in everything, the 12st thing we see is “racist” when I don’t believe that was the point at all!</p>
<p>PS – I don’t expect my opinion to be popular or garner support!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71856</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71856</guid>
		<description>Benzol

So that is where Mugabe got the idea from - morphing Morgan from Bush and Blair on TV?

Blacklisted Dictator

&quot;The Pope had been unaware of Bishop Williamson&#039;s views and ordered him to recant&quot;
Don&#039;t I keep saying that &quot;the infallibility of the Pope&quot; is false doctrine?

Kit

At least Zapiro&#039;s &quot;Justice&quot; cartoon was well drawn!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benzol</p>
<p>So that is where Mugabe got the idea from &#8211; morphing Morgan from Bush and Blair on TV?</p>
<p>Blacklisted Dictator</p>
<p>&#8220;The Pope had been unaware of Bishop Williamson&#8217;s views and ordered him to recant&#8221;<br />
Don&#8217;t I keep saying that &#8220;the infallibility of the Pope&#8221; is false doctrine?</p>
<p>Kit</p>
<p>At least Zapiro&#8217;s &#8220;Justice&#8221; cartoon was well drawn!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71852</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71852</guid>
		<description>Of course this cartoon is blatantly racist and it exposes a possibly deeper unrest and divide in America, one where such blatant racism is allowed for starters.  I wonder though if this means civil war in America? First denial then anger then aggression, this carton seems to have it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course this cartoon is blatantly racist and it exposes a possibly deeper unrest and divide in America, one where such blatant racism is allowed for starters.  I wonder though if this means civil war in America? First denial then anger then aggression, this carton seems to have it all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah Britten</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71842</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Britten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71842</guid>
		<description>This cartoon is appalling. Not just because of the obvious racial angle (given a long history of racist characterisation of blacks as apes or less evolved, to suggest that it isn&#039;t racist is to be utterly disingenuous) also but because of the violence it depicts. We all know why security around Obama is incredibly tight.

This cartoon is unbelievably tasteless. It&#039;s not even funny. It&#039;s just ...crass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This cartoon is appalling. Not just because of the obvious racial angle (given a long history of racist characterisation of blacks as apes or less evolved, to suggest that it isn&#8217;t racist is to be utterly disingenuous) also but because of the violence it depicts. We all know why security around Obama is incredibly tight.</p>
<p>This cartoon is unbelievably tasteless. It&#8217;s not even funny. It&#8217;s just &#8230;crass.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Trapido</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71828</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Trapido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71828</guid>
		<description>Madoda you raise a good point - where do we draw the line? I can&#039;t give you a definitive answer.

I guess different things offend different people.

Guys just a point on Bush. Being compared to a primate is not stereotypical racism in the case of whites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Madoda you raise a good point &#8211; where do we draw the line? I can&#8217;t give you a definitive answer.</p>
<p>I guess different things offend different people.</p>
<p>Guys just a point on Bush. Being compared to a primate is not stereotypical racism in the case of whites.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sm</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/comment-page-1/#comment-71812</link>
		<dc:creator>sm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/02/19/new-york-posts-obama-chimpanzee-cartoon-is-clearly-racist/#comment-71812</guid>
		<description>do you not remember bush being portrayed as a chimp?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>do you not remember bush being portrayed as a chimp?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

