Comments on: Bashir indicted for war crimes, what about Bush, Blair?

By: Lyndall Beddy

Lyndall Beddy — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:00:10 +0000

Jeff,

It looks like only you and I; the rest have left – even Mustafa.

I suggest we say thanks to Traps for the use of his space, and move this to my blog. Once you comment there, I have your e-mail address, and we can communicate direct (without moderation).

To get to my blog, you click on my name(in red) below this comment. Scroll down till you find my post “Faith-to Faith: Homosexuality”, which relates to what we are discussing here.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:21:56 +0000

@Lyndall
Islamic scholars are there basically as apologists and marketers of islam. Just as biblical scholars promote Judeo/Christianity. They are studying fairy tales. As Richard Dawkins as been at pains to explain, theology as the study of god and god’s so-called word is not any subject at all. One might as well be a scholar in fairy tales as an islamic scholar.
I don’t get your point about the celibacy and birth control bits being, or not being, in the bible. There’s nothing about rock music in the bible either to the best of my knowledge, but some christians see it as satanic (whatever that may mean).
I happen to think people should make up their own minds about birth-control based on their own cicumastances. That is if all women/men are given a fair choice.
As for celibacy that should also be one’s own choice. Not a way I’d go myself. Then I’ve always mistrusted the words of religious spokesmen.
Incidentally I have almost as much disrespect for roman catholicism as I do for islam. They are also a bunch of fascists in my view.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:08:12 +0000

Lyndall,
My point exactly. People will take the bits of the holy scriptures that suit them and say this is the one true way. These scriptures are all full if contradictions that can be exploited by power-hungry people. It is often easy then to convince enoug of your co-religionist to go along with your version.
I had a conversation with a Tunisian muslim recently where he denied that there was any violence in the koran. I showed him some violent verses and he still denied it. This man, like so many religious people, has been brainwashed from birth. The first words spoken to a muslim child when it is born are: There is no god but allah, into one ear; and Mohammed is his prophet into the other. From that moment he is brought up in his home, mosque and madrassah to believe this. His whole cultural environment militates against him questioning this. He would be ostracised by his family, friends and community for questioning it.
So as the Jesuits knew: Give me a child until he is seven and he is mine for life.
There is no chance of a reformation in islam.

By: Lyndall Beddy

Lyndall Beddy — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:48:26 +0000

Jeff

The older I get, and the more I read and try to learn, the simpler and less complicated my beliefs.

When I look at The Empire State Building or London Bridge, I don’t think they built themselves. When I read Shakespeare I don’t think the book wrote itself.

When I look at a flower, or a tree, or a cheetah, or the stars – I think the same.

I do believe in a Creator God – and think His/Her wisdom can be found in many places.

The verse from the Quraan that I quoted above is one of those insights.

God did not want one people, one nation, or one religion. One religious system would be too small and restrictive. And the religion of the atheists is one of those religions as well. Some of the major scientific breakthroughs could only have been made by atheists.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:30:58 +0000

Hi Lyndall,
If there is a god, then I really can’t see it being this almighty, good, all-seeing, thing that listens to and answers prayers. There are of course other versions of god, all of its followers having the one true god. Take your pick.
Maybe the god of the old testament; the jealous, “vengence is mine” one is a lot more accurate notion than the all-loving, all-caring one. It certainly seems that way to me.
If that’s the case I wouldn’t waste my time believing. I don’t understand why you look at the world and think there is a god at all, let alone one worth worshipping. The place seems a pretty random mess to me.

By: Lyndall Beddy

Lyndall Beddy — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:45:07 +0000

Jeff

The Neo-Jihardists are like the Inquisition – only their interpretation of their religion is allowed. They are fanatics who twist the words of the Holy Books to suit their own ambitions.

Like The Reformation stopped the Catholic Church (who had to change itself to keep any congregants); so only Islamic scholars and moderate Muslims can stop the Jihad.

To get off Islam for a little. Want to explain to me where in the Bible, expecially in The New Testament, it says that birth control is prohibited, or priests/rabbis must be celibate?

By: Jeff

Jeff — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:46:07 +0000

@Lyndall,
The point I am trying to make, is that muslims today use some verses in the koran and sayings in the hadith to justify killing “infidels”. The slightest “insult” is justifying ridiculous over-reaction from muslims worldwide.
There is plenty of violence in the bible. However I don’t see christians using such verses to justify killing those who are not christians.
One could argue about whether god gave Israel to the Jews till the cows come home. Personally I feel that Israeli’s are merely protecting themselves from attempted anihilation muslims in the middle east, with the support of muslims world wide. This support is merely because they are all part of the ummah and islam declares this.

By: Lyndall Beddy

Lyndall Beddy — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:56:34 +0000

Jeff

You look at the world and think “How can there be a God?”

I look at the world and think “How can there not be a God?”

Once we are dead, if I am right, I will come looking for you to say “I told you so!”.

If you are right, tough luck, you won’t be able to do the same!

By: Jeff

Jeff — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:32:31 +0000

Lyndall,
As explained previously:
There are verses in the koran that preach religious tolerance. These are in the “Mecca verses” when Mohammed and his religion were still rather weak an sought tolerance from other, more established religions. Later on as islam gained ascendency after the flight to Medina(on his “winged white horse?) so the verses the “Medina verses” became highly intolerant of other religions i.e. infidels. The spread of islam became the objective and it was carried out in a violent manner. It cared nothing for other people and their religion, either they converted or they were killed, or they payed the jizya and agreed to be second class citizens subservient to islam and its adherents(muslims)

By: Lyndall Beddy

Lyndall Beddy — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:52:41 +0000

Rev John Olivier, Chairman of the Cape Town Interfaith Initiative, quoted the following verse from the Quraan in a letter to the Cape Times on 24 February:

“If Allah so willed, He would have made you one believing community, (but He has not), as a test to uou in what He has given you, so strive with each other in good actions”

(Surah 5: Verse 48 )