<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Zimbabwe cholera: Mugabe will decimate South Africa as well as Zimbabwe</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-68986</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-68986</guid>
		<description>I find it disturbing that not one post in this long conversation has commented on this paragraph in Michael&#039;s article:

&#039;During xenophobia I went into the townships of South Africa and I spoke to residents ad nauseum. Their grievances were real - Millions of refugees, unregulated, pouring into their communities, bribing housing officials so they could get houses before locals, erecting shacks outside their homes overnight, desperados increasing violent crime exponentially, taking their jobs and on and on&#039;

Of course people living in the informal settlements and townships have real grievances: corruption in housing allocation, violent crime, unemployment... but to say that it is &#039;millions of refugees&#039; causing these things is simply not true. It is a strong perception, yes, but not based on fact at all. There have been audits of RDP houses and there are very few non-citizens living in them - those that are are renting from citizens (which is legal) or are living there with their partners who are citizens. The isolated cases of actual corruption in the housing system should surely be blamed on the corrupt officials, not the poor people looking for housing - and if you want to blame the corruptor, what about the many South Africans who are jumping the cue by buying their way into the system? Concerning crime, again, blaming the rise in crime on foreigners is simply factually wrong. Crime rates are not higher in places with more foreigners than in similarly poor and informal places with fewer foreigners. The police do not arrest many foreigners for crime (that is, apart from not having documentation - remember what it was like for the police to ask people on the street to see their documents and then arresting them for it?) and the prisons have very few non-citizens in them. This is not because foreign criminals don&#039;t have IDs - who ever heard of a policeman letting a suspected criminal go just because they don&#039;t have an ID? The criminal justice system doesn&#039;t work like that. Finally, jobs - which jobs are these &#039;refugees&#039; supposed to be taking? Spaza shop owner or street trader? That&#039;s basic entrepreurship - it is not as if that job is &#039;there&#039; before it is created, so it can&#039;t be stolen. Temporary construction worker? Sort out the subcontractors who don&#039;t respect labour law so everyone competed for the same level of wages, don&#039;t blame people for trying to earn a living. Formal jobs as teachers, secretaries, bus drivers, bank managers, what-have-you? Many of the people complaining about losing jobs (and hitting people over the head with pangas because of it) are not qualified for formal jobs (which is often not their own fault, but the fault of the education system), and if they are qualified they have a much much much higher likelihood of getting those jobs if they apply for them than any non-citizen. The law says that employers can only hire non-citizens if they can prove that there is no citizen who can do the job. The citizen doesn&#039;t even have to be better qualified for the job than the non-citizen - they just have to be able to do the job. 

Please, Michael. Think carefully before repeating unfounded accusations about migrants and refugees. Yes, the grievances of the poor in South Africa are real and I agree fully that they need to be listened to and addressed. But by blaming the wrong people and the wrong causes for the poverty, we not only unfairly accuse people, but we also make it impossible to solve the real problems and the real reasons people are still poor and marginalised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it disturbing that not one post in this long conversation has commented on this paragraph in Michael&#8217;s article:</p>
<p>&#8216;During xenophobia I went into the townships of South Africa and I spoke to residents ad nauseum. Their grievances were real &#8211; Millions of refugees, unregulated, pouring into their communities, bribing housing officials so they could get houses before locals, erecting shacks outside their homes overnight, desperados increasing violent crime exponentially, taking their jobs and on and on&#8217;</p>
<p>Of course people living in the informal settlements and townships have real grievances: corruption in housing allocation, violent crime, unemployment&#8230; but to say that it is &#8216;millions of refugees&#8217; causing these things is simply not true. It is a strong perception, yes, but not based on fact at all. There have been audits of RDP houses and there are very few non-citizens living in them &#8211; those that are are renting from citizens (which is legal) or are living there with their partners who are citizens. The isolated cases of actual corruption in the housing system should surely be blamed on the corrupt officials, not the poor people looking for housing &#8211; and if you want to blame the corruptor, what about the many South Africans who are jumping the cue by buying their way into the system? Concerning crime, again, blaming the rise in crime on foreigners is simply factually wrong. Crime rates are not higher in places with more foreigners than in similarly poor and informal places with fewer foreigners. The police do not arrest many foreigners for crime (that is, apart from not having documentation &#8211; remember what it was like for the police to ask people on the street to see their documents and then arresting them for it?) and the prisons have very few non-citizens in them. This is not because foreign criminals don&#8217;t have IDs &#8211; who ever heard of a policeman letting a suspected criminal go just because they don&#8217;t have an ID? The criminal justice system doesn&#8217;t work like that. Finally, jobs &#8211; which jobs are these &#8216;refugees&#8217; supposed to be taking? Spaza shop owner or street trader? That&#8217;s basic entrepreurship &#8211; it is not as if that job is &#8216;there&#8217; before it is created, so it can&#8217;t be stolen. Temporary construction worker? Sort out the subcontractors who don&#8217;t respect labour law so everyone competed for the same level of wages, don&#8217;t blame people for trying to earn a living. Formal jobs as teachers, secretaries, bus drivers, bank managers, what-have-you? Many of the people complaining about losing jobs (and hitting people over the head with pangas because of it) are not qualified for formal jobs (which is often not their own fault, but the fault of the education system), and if they are qualified they have a much much much higher likelihood of getting those jobs if they apply for them than any non-citizen. The law says that employers can only hire non-citizens if they can prove that there is no citizen who can do the job. The citizen doesn&#8217;t even have to be better qualified for the job than the non-citizen &#8211; they just have to be able to do the job. </p>
<p>Please, Michael. Think carefully before repeating unfounded accusations about migrants and refugees. Yes, the grievances of the poor in South Africa are real and I agree fully that they need to be listened to and addressed. But by blaming the wrong people and the wrong causes for the poverty, we not only unfairly accuse people, but we also make it impossible to solve the real problems and the real reasons people are still poor and marginalised.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lorretta</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-64385</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorretta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-64385</guid>
		<description>“Our central hospitals are literally not functioning. Our staff is demotivated and we need your support to ensure that they start coming to work and our health system is revived,” 

I thought, for a moment, you were quoting some honest soul from the KZN Health Department!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Our central hospitals are literally not functioning. Our staff is demotivated and we need your support to ensure that they start coming to work and our health system is revived,” </p>
<p>I thought, for a moment, you were quoting some honest soul from the KZN Health Department!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63476</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63476</guid>
		<description>Traps

AHA! At last! I knew it! You totally misinterprete ANC spoken alleged policies, and ANC peformance of such policy(which is mostly the opposite of what they say).

You are ANC only out of sentiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traps</p>
<p>AHA! At last! I knew it! You totally misinterprete ANC spoken alleged policies, and ANC peformance of such policy(which is mostly the opposite of what they say).</p>
<p>You are ANC only out of sentiment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Trapido</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63436</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Trapido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63436</guid>
		<description>GS - sorry before I forget (was thinking about this the other day)- why is it that people who support our parties think they cannot take issue with them?

In the USA Republican journos think nothing about hammering on about those who support America First as opposed to say Intervention in other countries. Both sides Republican. Or when McCain supported the bail out - the lashing he got from the GOP journos who opposed it was staggering. Neocons are often blamed for everything by Republican journos.

The same applies to Tories, Labour, Democrats etc.

Locally journos duck the issue of who they support (unlike many overseas) and those that do come out feel they have to pay lip service to the party line.

Bullshit!

I&#039;m ANC but I let them know when I think they&#039;re wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GS &#8211; sorry before I forget (was thinking about this the other day)- why is it that people who support our parties think they cannot take issue with them?</p>
<p>In the USA Republican journos think nothing about hammering on about those who support America First as opposed to say Intervention in other countries. Both sides Republican. Or when McCain supported the bail out &#8211; the lashing he got from the GOP journos who opposed it was staggering. Neocons are often blamed for everything by Republican journos.</p>
<p>The same applies to Tories, Labour, Democrats etc.</p>
<p>Locally journos duck the issue of who they support (unlike many overseas) and those that do come out feel they have to pay lip service to the party line.</p>
<p>Bullshit!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m ANC but I let them know when I think they&#8217;re wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Trapido</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63433</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Trapido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63433</guid>
		<description>GS - I&#039;m glad you asked me that.

I&#039;m a supporter not a member precisely for that reason. As a member I would have to toe the party line.

Briefly (scroll back for detail) I believe that the ANCs policies, primarily those aimed at uplifting our previously disadvantaged communities represent this country&#039;s best hope of achieving a strong and prosperous country.

I am in favour of affirmative action, BEE suitably amended and land redistribution (urgently). I disagree with the SADC decision but if it assists the process by ensuring compensation (which means more sellers will be amenable) I&#039;ll live with it. (Lyndall I will give you your post)

I believe that the alliance partners drive towards added socialism is in our best interests. I don&#039;t believe they should be given quotas of seats.

I don&#039;t believe that Cope, which is the progeny of the Mbeki faction, is the answer because it is from them that our disgusting foreign and health policies arose. They also have an elitist stigma to overcome (as far as I&#039;m concerned anyway) 

The Democratic Alliance are a great bunch of guys and gals but their overall ideology (as you can see above) differs slightly from mine. I&#039;m mad about Helen Zille but that doesn&#039;t make me DA.

I am an ANC supporter but I will continue to let them have it where I think they go wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GS &#8211; I&#8217;m glad you asked me that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a supporter not a member precisely for that reason. As a member I would have to toe the party line.</p>
<p>Briefly (scroll back for detail) I believe that the ANCs policies, primarily those aimed at uplifting our previously disadvantaged communities represent this country&#8217;s best hope of achieving a strong and prosperous country.</p>
<p>I am in favour of affirmative action, BEE suitably amended and land redistribution (urgently). I disagree with the SADC decision but if it assists the process by ensuring compensation (which means more sellers will be amenable) I&#8217;ll live with it. (Lyndall I will give you your post)</p>
<p>I believe that the alliance partners drive towards added socialism is in our best interests. I don&#8217;t believe they should be given quotas of seats.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that Cope, which is the progeny of the Mbeki faction, is the answer because it is from them that our disgusting foreign and health policies arose. They also have an elitist stigma to overcome (as far as I&#8217;m concerned anyway) </p>
<p>The Democratic Alliance are a great bunch of guys and gals but their overall ideology (as you can see above) differs slightly from mine. I&#8217;m mad about Helen Zille but that doesn&#8217;t make me DA.</p>
<p>I am an ANC supporter but I will continue to let them have it where I think they go wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GS van Zyl</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63429</link>
		<dc:creator>GS van Zyl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63429</guid>
		<description>Michael...

I have enormous respect for you as a writer and think you are mostly spot on with your articles.

But - South Africa aided Mugabe in his destruction of Zimbabwe by doing nothing. Even now the most powerful government in the SADC seems to be doing nothing. That government is controlled by the ANC.

You say that you are an ANC supporter. How can you write an article like this and be an ANC supporter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael&#8230;</p>
<p>I have enormous respect for you as a writer and think you are mostly spot on with your articles.</p>
<p>But &#8211; South Africa aided Mugabe in his destruction of Zimbabwe by doing nothing. Even now the most powerful government in the SADC seems to be doing nothing. That government is controlled by the ANC.</p>
<p>You say that you are an ANC supporter. How can you write an article like this and be an ANC supporter?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Belle</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63425</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63425</guid>
		<description>Zimbabwe&#039;s devastation is Reality TV at its best. Its rather like watching a gigantic snuff movie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimbabwe&#8217;s devastation is Reality TV at its best. Its rather like watching a gigantic snuff movie.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63411</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63411</guid>
		<description>All SADC, SA, AU, NGOs, EU and everyone else has to do is get food, seeds,medicines, water purification etc sorted out by DIRECT means - no more money given to Mugabe or his illegal government.

Unpaid soldiers and police will return to the villages - provided the villages have food. It has happened before in Africa (The Congo).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All SADC, SA, AU, NGOs, EU and everyone else has to do is get food, seeds,medicines, water purification etc sorted out by DIRECT means &#8211; no more money given to Mugabe or his illegal government.</p>
<p>Unpaid soldiers and police will return to the villages &#8211; provided the villages have food. It has happened before in Africa (The Congo).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63410</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63410</guid>
		<description>Reinhart

There are rumours that the success of treasury is a result of the admin systems installed by Maria Ramos as DG. This, if true, is proof of The Peter Principle (revised version).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reinhart</p>
<p>There are rumours that the success of treasury is a result of the admin systems installed by Maria Ramos as DG. This, if true, is proof of The Peter Principle (revised version).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/comment-page-1/#comment-63408</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/12/04/zimbabwe-cholera-mugabe-will-decimate-south-africa-as-well-as-zimbabwe/#comment-63408</guid>
		<description>Reinhart

The Dilbert Principle relates to the Peter Principle - that corporations (and ,it would appear, political parties) promote everyone to one level ABOVE their level of competancey.

What is much less known is that the author of The Peter Principle, many years later, wrote that the principle did not apply to women - and that they actually usually worked one level below their competancy level, and were often the ones actually doing their boss&#039;s job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reinhart</p>
<p>The Dilbert Principle relates to the Peter Principle &#8211; that corporations (and ,it would appear, political parties) promote everyone to one level ABOVE their level of competancey.</p>
<p>What is much less known is that the author of The Peter Principle, many years later, wrote that the principle did not apply to women &#8211; and that they actually usually worked one level below their competancy level, and were often the ones actually doing their boss&#8217;s job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

