Zapiro’s cartoon in the Sunday Times, depicting a woman symbolising the justice system being held down by the ANC, SACP, ANCYL and Cosatu, with Julius Malema telling Jacob Zuma, who is unbuttoning his pants, to “go for it”, may well have crossed the line of what constitutes fair comment.
The cartoon seems to suggest that the ANC president is about to rape the criminal justice system with the parties set out above assisting him by holding “her” down.
While Zapiro is entitled to use the metaphor of rape to highlight local misgivings concerning the attack on the criminal justice system, it is in light of JZ’s acquittal for rape tantamount to a rejection of the findings of a judge operating within the system he seeks to protect.
Moreover, it shows a total lack of sensitivity to the aggressive nature of current South African discourse. I feel that Zapiro, as someone who does the most amazing work generally, has let himself down on this one.
His decision to withhold an apology is unfortunate.
Of course with all of the proverbial shit hitting the fan, one wonders whether the Sunday Times will do a David Bullard on Zapiro. If that were to be the case, it would be most unfortunate.
Regardless of whether or not you believe that the cartoon crosses the line, South Africa needs editors to be courageous right now.
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128 Responses to “Will Mondli fire Zapiro?”
yesterday’s cartoon is, at the moment, metaphorically correct.
if there is a “political solution” to the current zuma “situation”, it becomes factually correct as well.
what, exactly, is the problem, mike? “be nice to the people in power who have no self-control when it comes to dealing with issues or people they don’t like or else?” is that what you’re saying? because that’s what it seems to me.
The fact that we have the highest rape figures in the world might be what makes it even more biting but let’s face it, it’s not exactly glorifying rape, is it?
I think it’s tasteless. But I also think it’s uncovering truths about people that they resent being forced to look at; perhaps people depicted in the cartoon but more specifically the rest of us.
Sanction for this? If you say so.
But then let’s also apply proper sanction to rapists, proper sanction to racists, proper sanctions to people who threaten to kill others, proper sanctions against instigators and perpetrators of murder, rape and robbery. Amazing that we can call for the head of a person who draws a picture but don’t apply the same fighting spirit to people who really commit real-life crime.
Why don’t we make sure Fidentia Brown, alleged financial rapist of widows and orphans, gets any necessary comeuppance instead of mucking around debating whether he gets to go to private hospital? Why don’t we take down those xenocidal people in charge of so-called business federations who threaten harm to refugees?
Why not? Well, because we can all get amnesty. It’s an intensely catholic viewpoint. This is why I bring my children up atheist. I will not have them believing that they can be thieves, rapists and murderers but it’s all okay as long as they’re sorry before they die. Too fucking late. That’s where your amnesty jabber is taking us.
One for Zuma and one for everyone else who comes after him. Once it’s done, rape victims will be left being raped again and again because why can their rapists too not be spared a trial because of their importance? There is one law and it applies to all of us. If you’re going to claim otherwise, you might as well give up now. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t recall electing the Omnipotent One into government nor even his nemesis; I recall electing people like you and me.
I do not think it is insensitive to portray rape as a terrible thing, which is how Zapiro has portrayed it. Just because it is a cartoon, does not mean that he is making light of the issue.
You make a fair point but Zuma is a politician and should take the flak. He has not been forced to seek public office. He has chosen to do so and in a
society with as free press, he must take the consequences.
Moreover, I can’t believe that Mondli would sack Zap as they are bum-chums when they cum to denigrating Israel.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 8th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Is it not the editor that holds responsibility for what is published? Zapiro may have been wrong but so was the editor. The editor should either do nothing, resign or fire Zapiro as a last act before he resigns. To fire Zapiro without taking any of the responsibility would not be right.
siyabonga ntshingila on September 8th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Trapido,
Let me, for once, concur with the notoriously complaisant Mn***undu on this one; the caricature aptly captured the atmosphere that currently prevails in South Africa’s political landscape – particularly the concerted efforts to subvert the principles of the rule of law (solely for the benefit of a promiscuous buffoon with an insatiable thirst for ascendancy to higher office). What a powerful imagery by Zapiro!
Firing Jonathan Shapiro (on the basis of the caricature) – or retaining him with a reassuring pat on his back – should be left to “editor” or his (the ‘editor’s’) handlers. One thing for sure is that the ascendancy of diatribe from the very ANC-SACP-COSATU lunatics in response to an (inevitably) impending trial of their buffoonery idol, was at some point surely going to elicit acutely pronounced counter-assault from those charged with printing, providing analyses, and commenting on matters of interest to the public. Zapiro’s caricature – no matter how distasteful it may appear to some of us – is just one prime example of how others are “prepared to kill” in defence of democracy. The list of those who have spoken out regarding what seems to be an orchestrated “rape” of the justice system is commendably increasing, with Njabulo Ndebele, Kader Asmal, Judge Vuka Tshabalala, and many more having expressed misgivings regarding the ANC’s (and its partners’) subversion of the justice system.
It gets even more interesting by the day………
had JZ *not* been subject to a rape trial and been acquitted — and it is not lost on me that you used “acquitted” and not “found innocent” like many other people up and down the internet and on television — it would have been inappropriate.
[put another way, if he could have kept his willy in his pants, i wouldn’t be supporting zapiro’s right to have made this particular drawing. but it’s also quite likely he wouldn’t have done it in the first place.]
i know you’ve had a listen to or a peek at the transcript of judge vd merwe’s ruling. he does the lambada around saying that the victim was non compos mentis — had he actually said it, then the prosecution could have appealed. in some places this is possible; not sure about south africa. the way that the judge tiptoed and danced, however, leads me to believe that it could have been possible. of course, that would not have been politically “acceptable”, but whose fault is that?
so, judge vd merwe does everything but call the victim NCM, and NCM people can’t consent to sex…
so instead he lets zuma have it for having sex with a woman who is not his wife, erm, wives. [in re: zuma’s wives — dignity must be a real cheap commodity in this country to have sex with a troll like zuma in exchange for access to power. but that’s not what this is about.]
insensitive, perhaps. however, insensitivity and veracity are not mutually exclusive. sometimes the truth just happens to be very, very ugly. you know, that’s probably why the saying “the truth hurts” exists in the first place.
“Moreover, it shows a total lack of sensitivity to the aggressive nature of current South African discourse.”
That line sounds like a classick. Why you, all of a sudden, writing all high falutin about “discourse”? Of course, you should diss “discourse” !
But do you agree with Jess Duarte ?…
“ANC spokesperson Jesse Duarte said on Monday morning that the cartoon is “vile, crude and disgusting” while the party’s secretary general Gwede Mantashe said it was racist.
Duarte said on Monday morning that the cartoon is not funny.
Duarte said Zapiro (whose real name is Jonathan Shapiro) has lost his capacity to draw funny and clever cartoons.”
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I agree with Trapido on this one. While I have little truck with Zuma’s dodging the case (and the transparently opportunistic responses of his chorus), I feel Zapiro has exceeded his right to freedom of expression. Zuma’s silence on the crassness of his chorus make make him complicit in the rubbishing of the justice system, but that doesn’t justify the equally crass depiction presented by Zapiro. Being a political satirist raises you no further above the constraints of the Constitution than does being a politician: indeed it may place you Janus-like at the same level.
MICHAEL, MICHAEL, MICHAEL,… the truth has proven to be unpallatable; but it nevertheless requires of us to devour it in whatever shape or form.
Zapiro has done nothing wrong; it is a fact that Zuma attempts to “rape” the justice system. The metaphor has got nothing to do with his rape acquittal nor is it intended to undermine the serious of the crime that rape is. Zapiro’s message is very clear. The public is shocked and disgusted that Zuma, the ANC, Cosatu, SACP and ANCYL are determined undermine the judiciary and subvert justice.
I find quite rich and hypocritical of the ANC and Cosatu to come out and say the cartoon was,”vile, crude and disgusting” and “tasteless”; when they didn’t find Malema and Vavi’s threats to “kill”, “vile, crude, disgusting and tasteless”. The ANC is quick to point out that they have been misquoted or misinterpreted; and they have done exactly the same here - misinterpreting the cartoon “out of context”!
I disagree Traps. Zapiro’s cartoon depicits exactly what Zuma and Co are busy doing. Just think “Kill for Zuma”; “Judges are counter-revolutionary”; “Zuma’s trial will take the country to teh brink”; i can go on and on.
I myself could not have had a better way of putting it, and i am a proud black man to those who are quick to cry racism. The ANC is brutally raping our justice system.
There is absolutely wrong with Zapiro’s article, the message to the alliance partners who are trying to force for a ‘political solution’ is that the truth hurts, and what Zapiro the truth of the matter in that a ‘political solution!!?!?!” is nothing but a gross rape of the justice system! Well done Zapiro…
One of these days, Zapiro will put shit on the newspaper (don’t ask me how). All we will do is accidentally touch it, wash our hands and start the debate on whether it should have been there or not.
(Shit here refers to human excreted material, the one that smells.)
In the light of the threats of violence, both tacit and overt, that are being continually spewed forth from ANC leaders these days, this cartoon hit the bulls eye.
Sensitive, no it wasn’t. Ugly and revolting - yes, but no more so than the ongoing assault by the ANC on the constitution of this sad, sad country.
The nihilistic threats being issued by Mantashe, Vavi etc. lead one to conclude that the ANC seem set to bring down this whole country in defence of Zuma, who, if he really was innocent as claimed, should have nothing to fear by going to court.
That same man sits quietly on the sidelines while his henchpeople do the dirty work. Not even an iota of condemnation… God help us all.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 8th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Mundundu and Zapiro has it spot on, are the journalists at Mail and Guardian scared of being fired? Does the ANC controll you, because it really seems like it. Lots of people have been under the impression that this country is being raped for the pleasure of the ANC. Here is a blog that is quite old already :http://www.mydigitallife.co.za/index.php?option=com_mycontent&task=view&id=1039443&Itemid=101
The irony is that David Bullard offered an apology to Zuma after being fired by Mondli. Bullard had also written in an unflattering fashion in his column about Zuma - (though he was not fired for this). Zuma accepted his apology and dropped the lawsuit. David later expressed “remorse” of how being publicly perceived as a “racist” had secondary negative effects to his family and children. This made him understand how his column’s caricature of Zuma also had negative effects to Zuma’s family and children.
I wonder if the vivid illustration potrayed by Zapiro about Zuma and his supporters being gang rapists of lady justice will follow the same conclusion?
I suppose the cartoon may be viewed a satire. However, it may also be perceived as offensive. Graphical display of rape violence especially after Zuma had been found acquited of rape charges, touches on very sensitive and explosive spot.
I agree with Sentletse and do not see a link between Zuma’s aquittal for rape (and i accept the verdict without reservation), and the fact that he, and the very accomplices Zapiro has drawn him with, are indeed set on f*cking the justice system.
To continue the metaphor, Zuma is not only going to rape the justice system, he’s going to give it AIDS too. That’s to say, its already fragile immunity to political coercion will be destroyed.
Duarte and co, like members of the previous Government, don’t understand irony. It’s not supposed to be funny. There’s nothing funny about Jacob and his cronies trying to hijack our country and run roughshod over our constitution and legal system. There is nothing funny about rape either.It has become our national sport. We are a sick country. This discourse is important. The cartoon stimulates debate. It is brilliant. We need this. It takes courage to speak out. Zapiro and Mondli have great courage. I wish there were more like them
Zapiro thinks that he’s invincible… he’s been scattering ‘a lot of diarrhoea’, and some people persist to lick his toes. He’s just another Circus in town.
The likes of Mondlis & Feriels are just cheerful with the bottom line, while this buffoonery continues to obliterate people’s images.
Siphiwo Qangani with kangaroos on September 8th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I agree the cartoon is shocking. However, just like David Bullard, Zapiro has a brief given to him by the Sunday Times. If the editor didn’t like the cartoon why did he let it be printed? Zapiro is, like David Bullard was, earning a living by following his brief. Get off his back and fire the editor.
I did not really think back to the rape trial when I saw the cartoon. Without that reference, I feel that the cartoon is fair comment. It would be offside to imply that Zuma was in “normal” life a rapist.
Combined statement issued by the three organisations September 8 2008
ANC, SACP and Youth League Statement on the Sunday Times
Press freedom - as enshrined in our Constitution - is one of the cornerstones of any democracy and South Africa is no exception. It is for this reason why we deplore the abuse of press freedom as done by the Sunday Times yesterday by publishing a disgusting cartoon.
Not only is the cartoon depiction by the newspaper of African National Congress (ANC) President Jacob Zuma as a rapist, it is distasteful and borders on defamation of character. It further insults the integrity of the General Secretary of the SACP, Comrade Blade Nzimande and Alliance leaders.
Freedom of expression and the press is not one-sided but the inalienable right of every South African.
The ANC, SACP and the ANC YL strongly condemn this abuse, disguised as “press freedom”. We further view this as a direct assault on the ANC and Alliance membership and its leadership. The cartoon rubbishes the collective integrity of the Alliance and constitutes yet another continued violation of the rights and dignity of the ANC President.
We have repeatedly stated our commitment to uphold and defend the Constitution, and the rule of law. We have never attacked the judiciary but criticised unfair treatment of our President. This, we did in a normal public discourse of a democratic society. There can, therefore, be no justification for such unwarranted insult on our leadership by the Sunday Times.
By his own admission, Sunday Times editor Mondli Makhanya, says: “We are not angels and - idealistic as we are - we have never purported to be on a higher plane than the rest of human society. Just as others make mistakes, so will we.” The cartoon depiction of our collective leadership and a string of errors the newspaper continues to make in its reporting, calls into question the integrity and credibility of Makhanya as editor.
Similarly, the cartoonist Zapiro has gone off the mark and he needs to be reminded of the basic tenets of press freedom for which insult and defamation are not counted amongst them. He has also been consistent in these un-warranted attacks on the movement and its leadership. In a country where we have a serious scourge of fighting violence against women and in particular rape, we need to be very careful how we use the notion and the concept of rape loosely to demonstrate any form of perceived abuse.
No amount of half-truths published by the Sunday Times, will sway the hard earned good public perception of the ANC and the Alliance. We can only hope that the newspaper will find a suitable leadership other than the ranting dictator who finds joy in manipulating the truth. The ANC is keen that the public should get Makhanya to answer for abuse of press freedom by the Sunday Times.
Statement issued by the African National Congress, SA Communist Party, and ANC Youth League.
I am a great believer in the maxim…..”Least said, soonest mended” and this is a classic example.
Until the ANC and its supporters started making a fuss about the cartoon I was unaware of its existence. Needless to say I have since googled the cartoon just like millions of other South Africans.
For months we have been regaled by endless comment about the new ANCs attack on the judiciary. In fact it has become a bit stale and largely ineffective in the face of official disdain.
Zapiro has produced a hard hitting cartoon which has provoked the type of ANC reaction that the media, the opposition and civil society has failed to achieve.
The question to be answered is, does the cartoon exemplify reality as seen by many concerned South Africans of all races.
anton kleinschmidt on September 8th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Mundundu
She would have won a civil case against Zuma - the onus of proof is different (eg O J Simpson), and the judge was VERY scathing about Zuma’s conduct. In fact the judge gave her all the ammunition for a civil case, had she wanted it.
Traps
You are wrong on this one. It is the JOB of a political satirist to shock if that is the only way to bring home the message. Pretty mild stuff against “kill for Zuma” and “counter-revolutionary judges” and marching on police stations.
And Zapiro does cartoons for many newspapers, not just the Sunday Times. They need him more than he needs them. David Bullard ONLY used to write for the Sunday Times - not the same situation at all.
I found the “monkey” cartoon, depicting the devolution of the ANC youth league, far more controversial than this in light of ancient racism. The rape one is at least metaphorically absolutely correct.
I hope Zapiro gets to read this one - He certainly does have the overwhelming support of you lot.
He certainly was brave sending this one out but as I say I still consider it OTT.
Not reason to go spare but definitely over the top. As Zapiro himself says when the women he showed it to were first given sight of it they were shocked.
Then it sunk in and they appreciated where he was going with it.
Wonder what our senior editor thinks of it?
I hold her opinion in the highest regard and would love to hear her opinion on this one.
Michael Trapido on September 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Well done Zapiro - you have been very brave to make such a bold statement about what is going on right under our noses - many others have taken the easier route of “not rocking the boat”. Dont ever apologize.
Some good points Traps. Zapiro gets my vote though. I think the cartoon captures the common South African’s sense of appalled disgust at Zuma in terms of trying to defeat the justice system. That said, I think Mbeki is possibly worse.
Remember when he came out of the first meeting with Mugabe and Morgan, and he said something like, “We’re agreed on everything, except one simple matter.” That simple matter proved to be the power sharing, and it seems Mbeki endorses Mugabe’s ploy to hold onto power. At a guess Mbeki has been holding Bob’s hand whilst encouraging Morgan to take it or leave it.
If I was Zapiro I’d draw a gay marriage scenario with Bob and Mbeki, and have Morgan as the best man, with the subtext: You’re not the man for me, Morgan. Bob is, now give me the rings.
A question of “taste” all of this! But I believe its best left to readers and to let it go any which way in the interests of freedom of the press and the free formation of opinion. I thought the Cartoon of Zuma as an idol figure being worshipped by an obedient entourage of the “alliance”prior to this one was a better quality cartoon. Michael Trapido might be right about it being OTT- may Yaweh be the judge though rather than any of us. I just keep thinking about whats coming up on Friday and frankly pray( not something I do often as an agnostic) for the beloved country- the society is hurting all round and lets not take the picadors of the press and political parties too seriously- much is at stake in South Africa yet again- too soon and with not a great deal of civil resilience left to cope as it faces a very substantial economic and political period of difficulty. I think a great deal about Chris Nicholson and the two assessors who determine so much on Friday.I frankly do not have nor, does any one else have, the full facts at my disposal. May justice prevail. Remember its the people in the streets that pay the big price of conflict in South Africa we must be respectful of this if we are privileged enough to indulge in provocation. David Brown
I’m keen in reading your response(s) to Blaclisted Dictator’s questions as posed hereabove.
I would hope you are not attempting to equivocate, but are putting your responses together for a warranted reply.
What’s your reaction or reply to the questions asked?
When I first saw this cartoon I winced. It’s horrible. But then it’s not Zapiro’s job to make us feel comfortable, is it? What if he’d portrayed someone like Eugene Terre’Blanche and the right wing instead of Zuma and his cronies? How would we feel then?
I wonder how Zuma himself will respond. If I were him, I would maintain a dignified silence and look like a noble martyr. The irony is that by attacking Zuma in this way, Zapiro may well prompt sympathy for the man from people who are not in his core support base.
Ain’t nothing OTT about the cartoon.
Fact: Zuma is doing whatever he can to screw the justice system over to avoid his day in court!
Fact: Those 4 cronies are behind him all the way.
The ANC may have inadvertently given this cartoon much more publicity than it would have had. Thank goodness for that.
Over the top, my a%&s on September 9th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Over the top
I agree - I am delighted that the ANC have been so foolish as to give this cartoon so much publicity - even on SABC and SAFM! They really have NO business sense!
I have just listened to Zapiro on SAFM. He spoke very well - and he said the responsibility is his, not Mondli’s. The ANC is trying to use the cartoon to attack the Sunday Times because of other problems that they have with the Sunday Times. Zapiro still firmly stands by his cartoon.
Who spoke after Zapiro - our very own Pierre De Vos. He was slightly more rational than normal, I must admit! Still trying to whitewash Zuma though!
BL + NZS - I think that Zuma being prosecuted without the rest of the parties linked to the arms deal was politically motivated. That does not give him or anyone else the right to trample all over the criminal justice system.
I would not die for Zuma or anyone else for that matter.
I probably would have published the cartoon if I was the editor because I would not have realized the backlash it was going yo occasion.
If I knew I probably would still have gone with it but confirmed, as I am doing now, that I personally feel its OTT.
anton kleinschmidt on September 9th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Trapzuman,
Thanks for your candid response.
However, I am a bit perturbed that you would not die for Zuma. Are you thinking of leaving the country when he takes over?
Trapzuman,
The problem in South Africa is that few people can put Zapiro’s work in any world-wide “cartooning” context. You have admitted that you are ignorant of the sometimes obscene political cartoons emanating from the pens of Scarfe and Steadman. I have to conclude that you do not really know what sort of cartoons are out there and as a result you are unqualified, like most South africans, to pontificate about Zapiro. To put it bluntly, you are out of your depth.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Trapzuman,
You haven’t replied to whether you think that the Zuman are trying to rape South Africa’s justice system. What about the ANCYL demonstrating outside the court? What about ” I would kill for Zuma” What about Mshini Wami sung by Zuma outside the court-house? ??
Are the Zumen, in your book, intimidating the justice system.If they are, then isn’t Zap’s rape analogy fair comment?
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 8:35 am
The ANC and alliance partners started the whole kak about the judiciary being counter revolutionary and the like. Now that we have seen through their smokescreen, the cry racism when Zapiro does what he know best.
As far as I can recall, Zapiro was Mantashe’s comrade in the 80’s and 90’s. When did he become racist? Was it when he stopped drawing PW Botha and Magnus Malan?
The huge debate by all sides surrounding this cartoon have done more to justify its’ printing than anything else.
SIMPLY FANTASTIC
Anton K is as usual right, the huge dedate has also made millions who missed it go and look it up
EVEN BETTER
Finally, those who live by the sword….. Those depicted in the cartoon have been saying anything they like, with the smug expectation of total impunity, and now they are hurt because they have had but a little taste of their own rather bitter medicine
Absolutely brilliant. Incisive, accurate, unflinching, uncompromising and unapologetic.
In fact everything that an investigative journalist would wish to achieve in a piece that would reveal the character of the subjects of a story and all this done with a picture.
OTT I don’t think so Michael, more a distillation of the current situation presented in such a way as to provoke the hypocrites for Zuma into a public display of their hypocrisy.
Political cartoons can be funny but are not in the first instance designed to amuse. I have long admired the succinct and penetrating political critique that ANDY and ZAPIRO have provided over the years.
Thanks to ZAPIRO and his editor for the courage to confront us with the starkness of the situation.
Mary
I was on a blog yesterday and some contributors said they thought the cartoon was hard for them to view but they thought it was good and fair. They supported Zapiro’s depiction - and they were victims of gang rape.
I think they should decide whether its OTT or not…?
Personally I think Zapiro was spot on.
Zuma and co must answer for their behaviour which justifies a cartoon like this - not Zapiro for drawing it. Point you pen in the right direction
Thing is, I don’t buy newspapers regularly anymore as I get enough depressing news on 702, so I heard about the brouhaha before I saw the actual cartoon.
All I can say is that I’m a bit disappointed in Zapiro. In fact, I heard his interview on 702 before I saw the cartoon where he described how it was a difficult decision for him. He didn’t sound 100% confident and I picked it up again in his cartoon. I imagined a larger, more menacing Zuma looming over a woman with outstretched legs and at least a glimpse of his half-open zipper! In stead, an insignificant, creepy looking Zuma is pictured from a bird’s eye view (a far more sympathetic angle)and the lady in question has her legs to one side. A most sympathetic rape scene in my mind!
So, OK, he is merely suggesting the probable rape of the woman but this and the responses to the author of this article’s whimpish disgust is more a sign of a guttless fear of free speech in my opinion. The truth is, we still aren’t free to make our own minds up in this country. We have to wait for the big dogs to tell us what to think. The same happened to David Bullard, which is probably why I stopped buying the Sunday paper ever since. I thought THAT was a storm in a teacup as well!
Of course the Zuma supporters are going to be annoyed when a satirist challenges their outrageous behaviour, and don’t let us for one minute assume that Zuma has a spotless reputation either. He was pronounced “not guilty” by the court which should not be confused with absolute innocence either. It is the spineless reaction from the peanut gallery that disappoints me more than a buffoon running for president, and by the way, I think he is our best option at this juncture in history. Any change in the current regime will be good for the country in my opinion. Methinks the whispers about arms deal information for amnesty is causing a LOT of angst in high places presently!
The standard of discourse in South Africa has become boring and dare I say predictable! We NEED a satirist with balls to counteract political nonsense in a public domain! THAT’s free speech.
Well done Zapiro and Mondli………reality as observed by us.
As for “rubbishing the Justice Sytem” can anyone do it better than themselves? Get real Pierre de Vos…I challenge you. I’ve been attending the Regional Court now for the last 8 years as a witness in an ongoing neverending trial…and my opinion…our courts are a joke! Get off your pedestal….and stop hanging onto your delusions of grandeur!
Give us more Zapiro!
Michael Trapido on September 9th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Mr Trapido I would like to address some points that were raised.
Firstly as a woman I am in no way affronted by the cartoon. I feel that rape is quite an apt metaphor for the sense of entitlement and “might is right” that Zuma and his supporters have been displaying.
Secondly, his continual attempts at getting out of prosecution and his supporters’ bully tactics (”kill for Zuma”, “take to the streets” etc) are nothing short of a violation of due legal process, and this violation is portrayed as something very grave, something South Africans are only too familiar with - rape. Why on earth should Mr Zuma not be prosecuted? Are all men (and women) not equal before the law?
Whether it is “OTT” or not, I think Zapiro has hit the mark, and I hope he has at least made the Zuma camp think twice about their actions. That is probably too much to ask for though.
Burger says cartoonists are always controversial
September 09, 2008, 09:30 (SABC)
The Head of Rhodes University School of Journalism, Guy Berger, says even though Jonathan Shapiro’s controversial cartoon of ANC president Jacob Zuma is a very extreme comment on the African National Congress (ANC) and its alliance, South African citizens need to realise that cartoonists are there to challenge us and to stop us in our tracks.
“Many people may have been struck by its strong message, but we need to realise that cartoonists are always controversial and are there to make us think,” says Berger who is a co-founder of Highway Africa.
He made the comment today at the 12th Highway Africa conference- the world’s biggest gathering for African journalists - which is taking place in Grahamstown, in the Eastern Cape.
The cartoon, published in the Sunday Times over the weekend under Shapiro’s pen-name Zapiro, shows a blindfolded female figure labelled “justice system”, being pinned down by Zuma’s political allies. The ANC president is depicted in the cartoon unzipping his pants, while the ANC secretary- general says to him “Go for it, Boss!”
Shapiro may have gone too far
However, Law expert Pierre de Vos says Shapiro might have gone too far by depicting rape in the cartoon. “I would just think that one should think very carefully before one uses rape as a metaphor in cartoons, because I think in the end it could possibly lead to the cheapening of the whole experience of rape and maybe some women will agree with the cartoon but I think there might be other women who won’t agree with it.”
Yesterday, the ANC and its tripartite alliance partners condemned the cartoon as disgusting, while Mantashe labelled it racist. Shapiro defended the cartoon and refuted the racism charge, saying that his record in the struggle spoke for itself. Speaking on SAfm this morning, Zapiro says the ANC has a vendetta against the Sunday Times and its editor Mondli Makhanya. He says the ANC should not blame Makhanya for publishing his cartoon. - edited by Thuthuka Maseko
Michael Trapido on September 9th, 2008 at 11:25 am
BL - I’ll tell you one thing I’ve noticed bud.
On every single issue - from free speech to Zuma you adopt the herd view and never anything against that view.
The fact that when you are asked to define your own view you go all blurry is also interesting.
For example free speech - Lest we forget you were the person who jumped up and down about free speech until I asked you to define yours.
Your answer was (as always) the British system which makes South Africa seem like the Reneissance.
Muslims in South Africa can’t be detained without charge and our parliament does not try introduce legislation to extend periods for picking up people whose only crime is to promote Muslim ideals.
In addition our police are not prte-occupied with the racist profiling of the glorious “free system” you espouse.
In fact when it comes to free speech why not get onto those British people who slaughter the concept and try and harass them like you do our guys
Or would that be the first time you’ve ever gone against the herd?
Michael Trapido on September 9th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Sowetan
FURORE: Zapiro’s cartoon that was published on Sunday.
The ANC and its allies – the ANC Youth League, the SACP and Cosatu – has slammed a cartoon published in the Sunday Times, describing it as an abuse of media freedom.
In a joint statement yesterday, the ANC, ANCYL and SACP said the cartoon was distasteful and bordered on defamation of character because it depicted ANC president Jacob Zuma as a rapist – despite having been found not guilty on such a charge.
Cosatu spokesman Patrick Craven said the cartoon was in extremely bad taste and was way beyond the limits of acceptability.
He said the use of a women who was about to be raped to represent the justice system was grossly insensitive “in the context of a crisis of rape and violence against women”.
The general secretary of South African Council of Churches, Abbey Makoe, said the cartoon amounted to promoting hate speech.
The Sunday Times cartoon by Zapiro shows Zuma pulling down his pants while ANC, Cosatu, SACP and the ANCYL leaders hold down a woman depicting the justice system.
UDM leader Bantu Holomisa said the cartoon was in bad taste and unethical.
ACDP deputy president Joanne Downs said the cartoon “has gone too far”.
Jane Duncan of the Freedom of Expression Institute said: “ There is no incitement in this case. It is inferential rather than direct. This may protect Zapiro’s right to freedom of expression rather than Zuma’s right to dignity.”
Michael Trapido on September 9th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
No, don’t prevaricate, Mr Trapido.
You still have not answered the other question(s) from Blacklisted Dictator.
I must say that I like your professional fence-sitting gesture (which masquerades as insightful analysis) - claiming that you are simply throwing up the idea for others to discuss, but this time around you are caught off guard.
Just answer the questions posed to you, Sir!
Or, do you need me (as a self-appointed referee in this boxing match ‘twixt ye and your nemesis) to cite the questions to make things easier for you?
Ecvery so often you start throwing your AK 47s out of your cot !!
This is the umpteenth time you’ve done it. How many AK47s did mummy buy you??
Re your comment about UK inroducing “legislation to extend periods for picking up people whose only crime is to promote “Muslim ideals”.”
Are you seriously hoping to take over from Aziz Pahad or Ronno Einstein (Minister of intelligence) in the next Zuma administration?
Interesting to note that when the judiciary is under threat, you go running with the ANCYL herd. Bud-But you are wasting your time. You are still in your cot!
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
While we’re all fully focused on the justice system and nobody seems to give a toss about BBA3 (shame on all of you) may I remind you that my Fox-Terrier was run over last week. (I was shattered).
Does anyone know someone with a puppy (Jack Russel is also good) to sell.
No, he won’t. The Sunday Times has a double agenda on Zuma; while it wants him to become President, it wants to smear him as much as possible in order to weaken the ANC. Hence the cartoon.
Otherwise nothing surprising here. It’s a propaganda race to the bottom; if Mr. Shapiro is worse than a Zuma supporter here, I’m sure the Zuma supporters will come up with something even worse later.
Sorry BL - In your effort to duck the real question on what constitutes free speech you missed the answer - “That does not give him or anyone else the right to trample over the criminal justice system.” Yes he and his followers are trashing the cjs which I’ve also said in other articles.
Because Zuma is doing that does that mean you can say, write or draw anything about him?
Now back to your question - As a person of British extraction who has only lived in this country for 11 years (ie missed the whole of apartheid) and who attacks the South African system on free speech, which is a million miles freer than the British one which you endorse, why is it that you hammer the local reps on free speech relentlessly while promoting the Draconian British system?
Please read the comment above as well relating to Muslims, detention without charge and racial profiling.
Michael Trapido on September 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
“Without doubt the government and then in reprisal, a faction within the ANC party and its allies, have used and then threatened respectively these organs of state in order to gain political advantage.
The one faction allegedly seeking to use the system to rid itself of a political rival, who in his turn together with his allies, attacked the various organs of state in trying to extricate himself from the same.
In order to bring about the pressure required to achieve this result the Zuma faction have allowed almost unlimited verbal attacks on the judiciary, NPA and other independent state bodies. The government in its turn has been lukewarm in defending them and ensuring that their independence is respected.”
My only criticism of the cartoon would be the scales of justice lying on the ground. It should rather have been a feather wafting in the wind.
When last have you seen the punishment meted out by our “justice” system being equal in balance to the crime ?
Also the woman being raped, should rather have been the citizens of South African, while the politicians with the power to stop the rape, stand around watching it, with their arms folded !
If the president of the ruling part can be depicted as a rapist (cjs or otherwise) and that is in order, (UTT according to you) why is it that Muslims can’t even attend sermons by radical preachers in thee UK without putting themselves at serious risk of detention.
And despite all the bumpf and miscontruing you still haven’t answered the question.
Problem is that you always leave your view out and head off at a tangent.
Tell us all why Britain is the champion of free speech?
Are you implying that I have attacked South Africa’s freedom of speech laws?? I believe that they should be upheld and should not be tampered with by The ANC. I have criticized Jess Duarte, previously on your blog. I noticed that you did not. Your silence was deafening.
Zuma might not like the cartoon. He might hate it. But in this country, as the law stand, it can be published as long as it is not hate speech.
Yes, I have been in SA for a shorter time than you. Bud-But, if you as a long standing resident( who I wouldn’t sell my dog to), think it is OTT, then why don’t you pack your bags and head for Zim? I am sure that Mugabe would agree that Zap’s depiction of a future African President is OTT… and more!
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Why the outrage by the ANC and its parasitical comrades. They release statement after statement condemning a cartoon. Why not condemn actual reality with the same vigour? Or are cartoons worse than reality? There were 56 actual rapes yesterday, did anyone hear anything out of the drunken bunch?
For the record, here is my comment, previously posted on your blog, responding to Jesse Duarte. Of course, you remained silent!…
Trapz,
You correctly write;
“In order for that Constitution to fulfil its functions in respect of corruption and accountability, which are after all in the interests of all South Africans, it needs an independent judiciary and organs of state which operate without fear of reprisals from the government or ruling party.”
I think that you would agree that a free press is also crucial. However, The ANC seem to be running scared…
The following Jesse Duarte quotes are taken from the above.
“When asked what the agenda of these media could be Jesse Duarte (heads up communications and is the spokesperson for the ANC) replies that she cannot speak on behalf of the likes of The Saturday Star, Business Day, Citizen or Sunday Times. Adds Duarte: “What we all don’t want is for the media to influence the agenda of the ANC and this is a very real concern. We do believe that they do at times try to do this, particularly when it comes to the issue of media stories written citing unnamed sources.”
However why shouldn’t the media influence the agenda of The ANC?
In democracies, papers of different political persuasions try to influence government agenda. Why is The ANC so scared? They are, moreover, a ruling party who has already secured victory at the next election. Seems like they want MORE than their cake and just eating it.
Duarte also says: “We believe that there are journalists who are exceptionally hostile to the ANC and there are those who are objective and do their job. Our analysis shows that those who are not objective are the most hostile towards the ANC.”
Surely it is reasonable that there are journalists “who are exceptionally hostile to the ANC”. Isn’t that at the core of a free press? Do journalists have to be”objective” when they criticize the govt?
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/Anthony Posner on September 4th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I agree with you that editors need to be courageous. They need to remember that freedom of speech truly is way more important than the heat of the moment.
I disagree with your reading of the cartoon. The four people (”parties”, rather) who are about to rape the justice system are being legitimately lampooned. A very accurate floodlight is being shone on their disgusting behaviour, which threatens the rule of law for their narrow and short-term gain.
That one of them happens to have been accused of rape in the past IS INCIDENTAL to the storyline here.
Having once been found not guilty of something does NOT mean you are now royal game. Normal political discourse continues.
By trying to link Zuma’s past real rape case to his symbolic rape of the justice system, his defenders are avoiding the real point of the cartoon.
Which is an important one, and Zapiro was courageous to not self-censor (as he must have been tempted to do).
Far easier for him to join the likes of us cowards than to do the right thing. He did the right thing against apartheid’s thugs, he’s doing the right thing now.
How many of us hollow shouters can say that?
Johannesburg - Cartoonist Zapiro’s depiction of the “rape of justice” by ANC president Jacob Zuma continued to draw a mixed reaction on Tuesday while both the Sunday Times and Zapiro said they would not apologise.
An editorial in The Times - the daily version of the Sunday Times - said it was a “shallow interpretation” of the cartoon to accuse cartoonist Jonathan Shapiro of depicting Zuma as a rapist.
“Shapiro has encapsulated in one drawing the biggest threat to South Africa’s future - that our justice system will be the sacrificial lamb offered up on the altar of ‘our saviour’, Zuma,” the editorial read.
“The alliance has openly attacked the judiciary, including our highest court, and has announced national strikes and other protests should Zuma’s corruption trial proceed.
“They have called for a political solution to the criminal case against Zuma.
“Their willingness to ‘kill for Zuma’, the strike for Zuma and to mortgage our democracy for Zuma is frightening.”
It concluded with “Zuma might be a bit of a joke, but what’s being done in his name is definitely not funny.”
The Press Ombudsman’s Khanye Mndaweni said that although the office had received two calls about the matter on Monday, no formal complaint has been laid yet.
Disrespectful, insulting
Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union spokesperson Benzi Ka-Soko said that while he believed Zapiro was the most brilliant cartoonist South Africa had produced, depicting Zuma as a rapist was disrespectful, as well as insulting to the alliance.
“Bluntly put, the cartoon says Zuma and the Alliance are bad for South Africa because they are rapists. In a more graphic way, the cartoon depicts Zuma and his comrades as beasts who think through their penises and that women are never safe near these ‘animals’.”
He challenged Zapiro to draw something centring on whites’ hold over most of the land in South Africa, and judges handing down racist judgments.
“Zapiro Zapped”, said The Citizen’s front page headline and Sowetan wrote “Readers zap Zuma cartoon”.
Readers’ opinion varied between feeling that the cartoon undermined Zuma’s role as a father to saying that it was “well thought out and to the point”.
The Democratic Alliance said the cartoon may just shock South Africa’ leaders “to their senses”.
“A metaphorical depiction that tells the truth and provokes argument may be just what South Africa needs at this critical juncture. It may also be what is needed to shock the country’s leaders into their senses,” said Dene Smuts.
Internet debate
The debate on the cartoon spilled onto the internet with the Friends of Jacob Zuma website also taking different positions.
“I think the cartoon by Zapiro in the Sunday Times, though a tad tacky and tasteless, raises some legitimate fears and concerns that we as a nation have regarding the recent attacks on the judiciary by Zuma’s cheerleaders,” wrote Koos van den Heever of Bloemfontein.
“This Zapiro character is irritating to say the least,” wrote Thabo of Sekhukhunye, discussing plans for the region to attend Zuma’s Pietermaritzburg High Court judgment on Friday.
“Charles” wrote: “I suggest we stand up and applaud Jonathan Shapiro for his accurate depiction of the current state of affairs.”
On Facebook, two sites supporting Zapiro have been created.
Meanwhile, 80% of respondents to a vote on News24 think Zapiro’s cartoon was “spot on”, while 13% felt it “is just a cartoon” and only six percent felt it “went too far”.
The ANC and its alliance partners the Congress of SA Trade Unions and the SACP were dismayed by the cartoon, but a spokesperson for the ANC was not immediately available on Tuesday for an update on how the party intended to proceed with the matter.
Go Zapiro!
Lets pray that JZ and his supporters don’t get any unwarranted support because of this cartoon. They will try to look like injured angels and will seek the sympathetic vote in their attempt to turn this thing on it’s head.
Alan in Botswana on September 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
David Bullard was probably threatened with his or his familys life thus the apology !!!
Zapiro you rock !
Keep up the good work !
Zapiro for president ! (at least then our country might be run fairly and with justice! )
Non-racist fellow artist.
[…] read a very interesting story on Thought Leader saying Zapiro went too far with a cartoon in the Sunday Times showing Zuma supporters holding down […]
I’m saying that you have repeatedly attacked everyone whom you consider to have fallen short in terms of upholding your strict interpretation of South African freedom of speech laws (Jane Duncan etc), all the while ignoring, justifying and condoning glaring infringements in British Law (which despite what you may think is the worst case of selective morality).
Then you make allowances for acts carried out in the name of curbing terrorism in Britain but make no allowance in the name of curbing the highly aggressive nature and high violent crime rate of South African society. In our case there is nothing that cannot be published in the name of free speech, the harsher the better according to you. Would you allow Abu Hamza or other radicals to say what they like in Britain?
If the answer is yes, could you tell us where you have launched into attacks on those who detain and deport Muslim clerics. If the answer is no could you explain why no matter how harsh the comment or cartoon, it’s okay in South Africa but not in Britain?
Why even now in Britain, after a trial by jury where 5 out of 8 Muslims were acquitted the CPS of GB is looking at retrying them. How disgusting is that? Can you imagine being acquited by a jury of your peers only to find that because the British police believe you are guilty they’ll keep trying you until they get it right.
So not only are their freedom of speech laws based upon selective morality and are carried out in a manner best suited to the Spanish Inquisition but their criminal justice system needs another blindfold on Lady Justice. Yet not a word from you against that system.
I have demonstrably (see above and back through the posts) set out that Zuma is undermining our criminal justice system. You somehow seem to be unable to remember it from post to post.
If we were to follow the British system that you justify, then the current South African government would be able to clamp down on anyone they consider subversive, detain them in the name of security and charge them after an inordinately long period has passed.
If you think so little of this country why do you put up with it?
Great Britain home of the free Whites (everybody else subject to profile).
For weeks Ive been listening to public discussion, on radio, in print, where the word “RAPE” has been prolifically used to describe JZ&Co’s attacks on our justice system.
No outcries.
However, put the word into picture format and suddenly we have OUTRAGE! … perhaps it simply demonstrates our high levels of illiteracy? … words don’t penetrate as effectively as pictures? …. we need comic books to get the message. LOL!
‘Zapiro se Zuma-prentjie lasterlik’
Sep 08 2008 09:15:23:277PM - (SA)
Carien du Plessis
Die ANC en sy alliansievennote het gister in sterk bewoorde verklarings die jongste Zapiro-spotprent oor mnr. Jacob Zuma, ANC-leier, as “lasterlik” en ’n “misbruik van mediavryheid” beskryf.
Zapiro (Jonathan Shapiro) se spotprent in die Sunday Times vandeesweek beeld Zuma uit waar hy sy broek losmaak om ’n vrou wat geregtigheid uitbeeld, te verkrag. Mnre. Julius Malema, ANC-jeugliga-leier, Zwelinzima Vavi, Cosatu-leier, Gwede Mantashe, ANC-sekretaris-generaal en dr. Blade Nzimande, SAKP-sekretaris-generaal, pen haar op die grond vas terwyl hulle Zuma aanmoedig.
Die ANC, SAKP en jeugliga het in ’n gesamentlike verklaring gesê hulle keur die spotprent sterk af. Dit beeld Zuma nie net as ’n verkragter uit nie, maar dit is ook smaakloos en “grens aan laster”.
Hulle het ook gesê dit is ’n belediging vir die integriteit van die ander leiers in die prentjie.
Cosatu het in sy verklaring gesê die spotprent is onsensitief in ’n land waar verkragting en geweld teen vroue hoogty vier, en wil hê die Sunday Times moet om verskoning vra.
Zapiro het aan Talk Radio 702 gesê die leiers in die prentjie is die ouens wat om verskoning moet vra vir wat hulle besig is om te doen.
Me. Jane Duncan van die Freedom of Expression Institute het gesê die spotprent roep wel die beelde van Zuma se verkragtingsaak waarin hy onskuldig bevind is, op, maar daar is nie genoeg gronde om so ’n spotprent nié te publiseer nie.
Sy het gesê deur humor te gebruik, het Zapiro die baie ernstige boodskap oorgedra dat die alliansievennote besig is om inbreuk te maak op die regspraak. “Dit bring die boodskap net nog sterker tuis gegewe ons hoë vlakke van verkragting.”
Prof. Pierre de Vos, grondwetkenner aan die Universiteit van Wes-Kaapland, het gister in sy blog gesê die spotprent kan problematies wees, want dit kan dalk die boodskap na sommige mans uitstuur dat verkragting nie so ’n slegte ding is nie.
Zuma het Zapiro twee jaar gelede vir R15 miljoen gedagvaar oor beweerde laster ná spotprente oor sy verkragtingsaak. Dié bedrag is later tot R10 miljoen verminder.
Mondli Makhanya, Sunday Times-redakteur, het gesê die koerant wil nie in ’n openbare debat oor die saak betrokke raak nie en het besluit om geen kommentaar te lewer nie.
(Last paragraph says Mondli says the paper does not want to get involved in a public debate and declined to comment)
I didn’t write that you MUST go to Zim! You misquoted me. As usual!
Of course, I look forward to sitting in the same room as you but I am under no obligation whatsoever to sell you my fabulous Jack Russell puppies. They really are the best. Both parents won Best Dog at Crufts. Sorry Bud-But these pups won’t run with a Zuman. I’m looking for the sort of home in which Jesse Duarte’s attack on freedom of expression is trounced. I don’t want any of these JRs to grow up with the wrong ideas.
Re freedom of expression in The UK… why don’t you blog it separately and I will discuss my views at length? I don’t think that it should supercede an important discussion about freedom of expression in South Africa. AND, you haven’t yet explained why you have failed to confront Jesse Duarte’s appalling recent statements. Perhaps you agree with them??
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Bravo Zapiro. Bang on the nail. All the squealing and the whining surrounding this cartoon means that it has achieved exactly what it set out to do - create debate. It is also interesting to see how quickly a response was forthcoming from the “alliance”. “Methinks the lady doth protest too much”?
Whatever is happening in Britain is irrelevant to this post, likewise any other argument you may have with BD. Please drop it and get off the fence.
What would you term what JZ and his acolytes are doing to the Justice system? If it was Selebi, would he have been depicted in a pin stripe suit with a tommy gun? No - when you f**k something over, you rape it, a very apt description. Similarly everyday is depicting Justice as a blindfolded woman with scales.
You are reading the cartoon at the same level that the ANC kindergarten etc. are, a childish understanding that would embarrass anyone who passed std 6. (No that’s not a dig at JZ)
Meneer Trapido,seeing that your an expert on metaphores,what do you think of the “kill” metaphor used by Malema and Vavi?Are you saying is killing better than rape?
Do you not think you are slightly overstating the situation in the Uk because you have again be drawn into another silly spat with BL? (Why does he always pull your chain?)
“Great Britain home of the free Whites (everybody else subject to profile).”
That statement would take some justifying, and bears no resemblence to the UK in which i spent 35 years. The UK is not perfect, but most Britains, of all races, would suggest that the rights of the minorities have been too generous, no too strict.
Abu hamza, who you mentioned stood on a street corner in London for 2 years preaching death to Britain and openly inciting muslims to murder westerners. Eventually he was silenced.
Go stand at speakers corners and advocate Christians to murder Muslims, or whites to murder blacks.He managed 2 years before censureship, you, as a white male, wouldn’t manage 2 minutes.
Can you please get it into your head that Zuma’s prosecution is NOT about the arms deal, but about corruption in state tenders given to the Shaik companies! The arms deal is a very minor part of it! STOP clouding the issues !
people, open your eyes! why asking such question whether Zapiro will be fired? he is going no where! we all have freedom of speech . Then GO FOR IT ZAPIRO WE WILL SUPPORT YU AS MONDLI DID!!!!
You mean besides assisting in and participating in rendition, detention without charge and all the rest? Not really.
My point is that in certain instances you have to limit freedom of speech and as in the case below freedoms.
BL believes in total freedom of speech and mercilessly as it applies it in the case of SA.
In Britain - draconian by our standards not a word.
That IS RELEVANT because you can’t condemn SA while allowing Britain (your yardstick)to walk water for the exact opposite. If BL believes in freedom of speech it must be universal. If he believes in limits he must say so
(Times of London)
Police in crisis after jury rejects £10m terror case
Sean O’Neill, Security Editor
Police and prosecutors were locked in crisis meetings last night after what they believed to be the strongest terrorism case ever presented to a court was rejected by a jury.
At the end of a £10 million investigation and trial lasting more than two years, jurors were unable to decide whether or not a group of British Muslims were part of a plot to blow transatlantic airliners out of the sky.
The outcome of the case - which featured al-Qaeda-style martyrdom videos made by six defendants - will be seen as a severe blow to Britain’s anti-terrorist effort.
Three men were convicted of conspiracy to murder, but the jury was deadlocked on the central allegation, that terrorists planned to use liquid bombs to destroy aircraft en route from Heathrow to cities in the United States and Canada.
The jury’s indecision in the face of a detailed Crown case raises questions about the public perception of the terror threat that could undermine government attempts to introduce further security legislation.
The Crown Prosecution Service indicated that it was likely to seek the retrial of seven men in an attempt to prove that there was a plan to attack aircraft and kill thousands of people.
The discovery of the plot, in August 2006, led to a global security clamp-down at airports that paralysed international travel.The alert resulted in restrictions on carrying liquids in cabin baggage that remain in force and are unlikely to be relaxed.
Retrials are being sought even though the jury at Woolwich Crown Court convicted three of the eight defendants of conspiracy to murder.
Prosecutors met to discuss their options amid concern that the jury could not decide on a separate charge specifying that airliners had been the targets of that conspiracy.
The jurors also failed to reach verdicts on serious terrorist charges against four other men, who had recorded al-Qaeda-style suicide videos and admitted charges of conspiring to cause a public nuisance.
Another defendant, described in court as a shadowy figure with terrorist connections, was acquitted of all charges and cannot be retried.
The jurors deliberated for 52 hours, but their discussions were disrupted by a two-week holiday, frequent sickness breaks and other commitments.
Scotland Yard refrained from comment last night, but the senior officers of their disappointment over the outcome of the case.
Andy Hayman, former assistant commissioner for special operations, said: “This was one of our strongest cases – there will have to be an intensive debrief. But now is not the time for that, now is the time to prepare for retrials.”
A CPS spokesman said: “The jury found there was a conspiracy to murder involving at least three men but failed to reach a verdict on whether the ambit of the conspiracy to murder included the allegation that they intended to detonate IEDs (improvised explosive devices) on transatlantic airliners in relation to seven of the men. It is therefore incorrect to say that the jury rejected the airline bomb plot.”
The men convicted of conspiracy to murder were Ahmed Abdulla Ali and Tanvir Hussain, both 27 and from Walthamstow, northeast London, and Assad Sarwar, 28, of High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. The four men on whom the jury failed to reach verdicts were Ibrahim Savant, 27, Arafat Waheed Khan, 27, Waheed Zaman, 24, and Umar Islam, 30.
Mohammed Gulzar, 27, from Birmingham, was acquitted on charges of conspiracy to murder and conspiring to murder by blowing up aircraft. He had vigorously denied any involvement. The Crown had alleged that Mr Gulzar, who arrived in Britain using a false name during July 2006, was a key figure in the alleged airline plot but the jury rejected that case.
Home Office sources said that Mr Gulzar would be the subject of a control order and it is expected that he will be questioned by police in connection with a serious criminal offence committed in Birmingham in 2002. Another key figure in the plot, Rashid Rauf, is on the run in Pakistan after escaping from custody.
BL -”Bud-But, if you as a long standing resident( who I wouldn’t sell my dog to), think it is OTT, then why don’t you pack your bags and head for Zim? I am sure that Mugabe would agree that Zap’s depiction of a future African President is OTT… and more!” (BL)
What part of that doesn’t say that if I think it is OTT I should head for Zimbabwe?
Misquoted you as USUAL is your standard garbage - do you ever read your comments or do you just fill up space with words?
Because you mentioned the name Jesse Duarte does everyone have to write a post on it or do they back Duarte? So you back everyone who you haven’t written a comment on?
Why would I blog the UK seperately? It’s raised now. It’s your yardstick on the way a system should operate in terms of civil liberties. If that is the case you are a hypocrite because SA is a million miles freer than the UK.
Unfortunately I don’t feel like rehashing the whole thing all over again every post. Every time your arguments get slaughterd you then move on to the next post and (Alzheimers?) you forget the whole post.
Now lets have your answer to the question. You went to great lengths to keep asking me about Zuma now Britain versus SA on freedom of speech :
I’m waiting.
BTW - you believe in freedom of speech like I believe in Martians. When I said above that that’s my opinion respect mine like I respect yours you could not stop yoursel. The abusive follow the herd mentality manifested.
You believe in freedom of speech for those who agree with you.
If they don’t you’ll just keep on and on and on - until they “Blacklist” you.
I believe in freedom of speech that’s why I allow everyone to have their say regardless. If their views differ, unlike you I respect that.
Where have I stated that The UK is a yardstick for civil liberties? Please supply me with the relevant quote from your blog or from anything else that I have written.
I believe that the South African Constitution has sensible regulations with regard to freedom of expression. I am trying to defend it from ANC attacks.
I believe that the attack on Zapiro is a dangerous move and the underlying context is Jesse Duarte’s recent statement. That is why it is relevant. The Zumen/ANC want to bring in legislation to curb the press. Don’t you understand? And you are giving them extra ammo when you state that Zapiro’s cartoon was OTT. If you are not careful, freedom of speech will be sold down The Limpopo.
And anyway, why am I obliged to sell you my dog? If you believe in freedom of speech, surely I am free to say that I don’t want to sell him to you?
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
BL - You mean like this?
Times of London (today)
Met racism accuser Tarique Ghaffur relieved of his duties
(Chris Young/PA)
Tarique Ghaffur: has been forced to take leave
Philippe Naughton
The top London police officer who accused Sir Ian Blair of a racist campaign of victimisation has been stripped of his responsibilities and put on gardening leave.
The action against Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur, the country’s most senior ethnic minority officer, was announced today in a message to staff by Sir Ian, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
Sir Ian’s decision was immediately condemned by the Black Police Association, which said that Mr Ghaffur was being “victimised”. But Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, supported the move, which he said was necessary to restore confidence in the Met’s operational efficiency.
Mr Ghaffur will retain his rank of Assistant Commissioner - and a salary of around £180,000 a year - but has been “temporarily relieved of his duties” including his oversight of security for the London
Sir Ian insisted that the move had nothing to do with Mr Ghaffur’s decision to take him to an employment tribunal, but was instead because of the highly public manner in which he did so and because of the “media campaign” he allegedly conducted. Two weeks ago, Mr Ghaffur, in full uniform, held a press conference to confirm reports that he had taken his case to an employment tribunal after what he said was a longstanding campaign by Sir Ian to hold back his career.
In his statement to staff, Sir Ian wrote: “I have reflected whether operational effectiveness, leadership and confidence in the MPS as an organisation and the security and safety concerns of Londoners are being affected. It is also clear this is having a negative impact on the London 2012 Olympic Security programme and risks undermining confidence in it.
“Certainly, it is the case that the interests of Londoners are not being well served by this current situation. Accordingly, I have decided that, for the time being, AC Tarique Ghaffur be temporarily relieved of his responsibilities although he will remain an assistant commissioner in the Metropolitan Police Service.
“With immediate effect, I have invited DAC Chris Allison to take over temporarily the command of Central Operations, including the contribution to Olympic security.
“For the avoidance of doubt, the decision has nothing to do with his actions in filing the ET application or the fact that he has made the allegations which are the subject matter of the ET claim. Rather, my decision results from the way in which he has chosen to conduct himself, for example by the manner in which statements were made in his press conference, and in conducting a media campaign, both personally and through the advisors and organisations supporting him.
“It is a matter of regret that I have had to take this action but I want to make it clear that we still want to find a way to resolve his issues through a mediated process.
“For the time being, AC Ghaffur is on authorised leave of absence.”
Mr Ghaffur, 53, arrived in Britain as a refugee from Uganda and joined the police force in 1974. The tipping point in his long-running row with Sir Ian appears to have been his decision to hold the press conference in a West End hotel to detail his grievances against Sir Ian. He has since complained about receiving death threats.
Alfred John, chairman of the Met branch of the BPA, said that the Commmissioner’s reasons for the suspension were “utter nonsense”.
He said: “The Met BPA is extremely disappointed that Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur has been victimised in this manner by Sir Ian Blair.
“The message that this sends to black and minority ethnic officers and staff is clear - ’Exercise your right to challenge unfairness and discrimination at your own peril. You will not be listened to and you and your supporters are likely to be victimised’.”
Mr John attacked Sir Ian’s suggestion that his decision was made because of Mr Ghaffur’s conduct. “We think that is complete and utter nonsense,” he said. “It is unprecedented - look at how many tribunals are brought against the Met and no-one is ever told to go on gardening leave.
“This move was something we expected, because that is the way minorities are treated in the Met. And that is a sad statement to have to make.”
Every time we have a post I have BL conducting a running battle normally
without any relevance to the topic of that article.
Comment after comment which ignores issues long forgotten and
very often with a very selective memory about how the debate went.
When I ignore the crap, the guys say pwease Twaps you must
answer (mostly abusive off the topic comments) BL’s “vital”
question (probably asked 70 times before and regardless
of the answer - asked again and the answer ignored)
So answering might as well be a lecture on the Smurfs.
If after 15 comments of abuse (read through them) I eventually
get the zig and say let’s hear your views genius, I get told
I’m picking on the poor thing.
I shouldn’t let him yank my chain?
You’re right - those who feel I have to answer questions
that are covered by articles please understand that
henceforth they are covered by articles on this site.
Those who feel I am picking on poor old BL - ignoring
all the irrelevant and abusive crap I have to put up
with, please feel free to raise this issue.
Then all I am asking of you is should I be consistent
with all of those who have had the same type of
ongoing comments (mostly off topic)
sent to them? Do what the rest of them did?
Or allow him to comment freely like everyone else
and answer only what is relevant?
As I am not like those that blacklist people I will allow
BL like everyone else to comment at his leisure BUT
if I am ignoring him please understand that it
is far fairer than most do.
I really can’t understand why you are bringing the UK into this discussion.
Is it bcause you have dug yourself into a massive hole and are desperately using diversionary tactics to dig yourself out? If so, your readers won’t fall for it. They are too damn smart. (”Absolem” and “amused reader” have, for the record, already told you that it is irrelevant)
Must I now defend The UK because I hail from the UK? Am I now victim to some sort of South African blog xenophobia?
Are you now going to ask “Alan in Botswana” to defend the laws relating to freedom of expression in Botswana because he does not concur with your OTT views about Zapiro?
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
As I have been answering all day I’ll answer BL in the morning.
Perhaps you might all want to start by reading the post on the Preacher who attacked Islam and BL’s quote from Jane Duncan and his queery about how she could be a member of the FXI after her take on the British system.
This one will need a proper answer and I am not carrying this garbage forward to another post.
The state must balance the rights of an individual (to freedom of speech) with the rights of the majority. If one man (Hamza) choses to use that right to exalt listeners to murder others on the basis of their religion or culture, the state is entirely correct (and in fact was very belated) to decide that Hamza’s freedom of speech was not more important than the fact that he was inciting racial hatred and violence, which is a criminal offence in Britain.
YOU brought up Hamza, not me.
In contrats Zapiro is not inciting anyone to anything, he is reflecting upon the unconstitutional actions of our leaders, and trying to bring about discussions that will benefit the majority.
I simply do not see how you can compare the two.
On a different note i am suprised that you have got so upset with the answer / don’t answer debate.
I, like most other readers, really enjoy your blogs, and do not expect an answer to everything i write. You usually are very calm and considered, and respond to the posts that interest you or that you feel add to the debate, a course of action that makes reading your blogs even more enjoyable.
For some reason, BLD, and BLD alone really pushes your buttons and you seem to lose your sense of calm and perspective. He makes the odd good point, but for the most part he is just plain annoying, immature and childish (like the pathetic i wouldn’t sell you a dog thing - honestly!). He was almost certainly spoilt by his mother. People read your blogs for your opinion not his, so why descend to his level at every tiny provocation.
Ignore him, don’t retaliate by saying you wouldn’t sell your dog to him either, it demeans you. Rather focus on more of your excellent and thought provoking blogs.
I think Mondli should fall on his sword, not for the cartoon. When he fired Bullard, he apologised telling us that his editorial systems had failed. Then he has to retract 2 front page articles in one month. The second one he had defended in his column.
Maybe he should also go for the readers he is going to lose from publishing the cartoon.
Traps,
I never thought I’d see the day when I totally disagree with you.
Zapiro needs a huge pat in the back by Mondli (and democracy loving South Africans). Put in words what Zapiro put in picture would not have captured the dangers we face as South Africans by people (especially political leaders and future President of the country) who abuse the Justice for their own political gains.
That cartoon was right on and the reaction is testament to its impact.
We have no sacred cows especially public figures who abuse the political and justice system for nefarious purposes.
As far as I’m concerned, no apology is necessary from Zapiro. He deserves that ol’ pat in the back.
Ngiyamuthanda uZapiro on September 9th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Trapzuman,
I should draw your attention to the fact that Abu Hamza would have also contravened South Africa’s hate speech laws. He incited murder. Jane Duncan (FXI), of course, doesn’t think it was a problem because she has a wider agenda that supports Islamic fundamentalism in its war against The West.
But you should note that Jane Duncan is not attacking the hate speech clauses in South africa’s constitution relating to freedom of expression.
So Duncan has appalling double standards. Hate speech in the UK is fine but in South Africa it isn’t.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 9th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Trapido,
Sorry dude.
You started this with a clear condemnation, and ran into a well-reasoned wall of counter-argument that seems to have driven you to personal and irrelevant attacks. Concede or dispute, but don’t capitulate or divert the argument.
As Zapiro said, it is unfortunate for Zuma that his sexual history adds another level to this cartoon, pointed out by the ANC alliance, but that is not the point here at all.
It does not render the cartoon “OTT’.
The fact of the matter is that our justice system is under intense attack and in danger of being subverted for the sake of one man who refuses to answer a very strong case against him.
Zuma’s case is not only an ‘arms deal case’. That is only one element of dozens of charges. But if Mbeki or others are guilty as well, how will we ever find out other than by the presentation of evidence, in court? We need Zuma to go to trial, and implicate all others, ‘taking them down with’ him, or fall on his own.
Either way, your promotion of a political amnesty is also a capitulation, and would qualify you to be alongside the others holding Lady Justice down, had your blog been influential enough.
The reason why I said BL said “Britain”, can be seen if you go to the post marked “Reason for Scorpions closure”
He had previously told me that the British system was his model. If you go to the post concerned (see below) you will see that nowhere does he deny
that he said Britian. He even clarifies that he has no problem with the SA system and, more importantly, why he believes incarcerating Hamza was justified.
Part of my comment plus the time inserted :
“In terms of Freedom of Speech he ranted and raved about the need for total freedom and South Africa needing to fight for it. If you go to his definition of the limitations on free speech in the thread designed for it, you’ll find his idea is for a system which in reality is far more draconian than the “freedom of speech system he condemns” A system (Britain) in which Muslim clerics are deported, detained without charge and wire tapping phones of politicians has become so bad it’s best to visit your mate and hope they
aren’t using long distance mikes.”
Michael Trapido on August 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm edit
Part of his comment and the time :
“Q2. Please explain why the draconian system you are suggesting for free speech is far better than the a system which is streets ahead of it when it
comes to freedom of speech?
A: For the record, I think that the constitutional limitations on free speech in South Africa are reasonable. I also believe that, in the light of
the serious terrorist threat in The UK, it was reasonable to imprison Abu Hamza for his inflamarory words.”
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR on August 15th, 2008 at 8:24 am edit
In addition look at this post’s comments and see how I keep asking him to answer on SA versus Britain. As always insted of answering he waits for any gap. Only after other guys ask what has Britain got to do with this, does he
suddenly say he never said Britain. Please check times on the comments. You will see that he does answer without denying that he had said Britain before he saw the gap.
I was going to invite you to look at his take on the “preacher” who had a go at Islam post but I think it best you read BL’s own blog first (Thereafter feel free) :
While reading it try and find any criticizm on his part against Britain, America, the West or Israel. Compare it then to his response to anyone who says anything against them. Compare it then to his contempt for anyone who uses the term patriot. In his case patriot is a bit tepid, zealot is your best possible description.
Have a look at his attacks on people (many scholars included). Note a question followed by his interpretation of any answer or no response - then quoting his interpretation as if it is fact. Then he adds to it.
I trust you won’t miss his repeated lambasting of Zapiro because he only does cartoons of Israel never the other side. (Nothing to do with fair
comment - just because he doesn’t do the other side) I also want you to look at the people he is lambasting and casting aspersions against simply because they hold a different view or just can’t
be bothered to answer any more. And this list is not exhaustive.
Now read my article on a “Compromise candidate” : You will note BL is one of those who comments repeatedly. Yet he asks questions here about whether I believe Zuma has compromised the criminal justice system. So I have to quote
and quote from that article, which he knows like the back of his hand, and yet the further down we go the more distorted the picture. Note regardless
of any answers how he still carries on as if you don’t answer and repeats his own views as if you had said them.
Note also what he believes that my answer (that I thought Zapiro was OTT) plus his interpretation of whatever, would result in for this country.
BL here is my answer - if I get time bud I’ll answer you in future. If I don’t you write whatever you want. You will not be censored but I’ll be joining the rest who don’t have to waste hours explaining things over and over to other people who visit the site and can’t be bothered to wade through every post full of this crap and who don’t know your style.
Michael Trapido on September 10th, 2008 at 6:53 am
The thing that struck me about all of this, was not so much the distasteful nature of the cartoon, but the fact that it brough home so forcefully the fact that while Zuma’s supporters continually lambaste Mbeki for being out of touch with the people, Zuma and his followers are equally so. Ordinary people in the street are deeply concerned about the state of the law and justice in our country - rightfully so - yet is seems that in their scrambling for power and position, and in their pursuit of their own agendas, neither Mbeki nor Zuma give a damn about the concerns of ordinary tax paying citizens. Zapiro’s cartoon, in my opinion, has voiced that concern more loudly than all of the signatures on the petitions against the banning of the scorpions could ever do, and for that I am grateful. If the leaders of our country had any concern at all about the people of South Africa, they would take the sentiments expressed in the cartoon very seriously. South Africans are deeply concerned about the erosion and flouting of justice in South Africa, which is openly led by politicians. Maybe its time for a reality check.
Since when should an artist apologise for reflecting the thoughts of a nation? Mr.Zapiro most certainly has NOT let himself down and regardless of the use of rape as a metaphor for Zuma’s current behaviour we must remember that at the end of the day, it is a CARTOON. I commend the man and his genius, I spit on Zuma’s arrogant misuse of power. Zapiro’s pen is most certainly more powerful than Zuma’s big stick.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 10th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Dear Traps
I think that you could just be right… it did go a little bit to far.
I have no sympathy for the ANC, SACP, ANCYL and Cosatu representatives in the cartoon. They are currently on a campaign to scare South Africa in to giving in to some extra-judicial deal with Zuma. Shame on them, they got what they deserved.
As for Zuma himself, it would have been more appropriate to show him contemplating on whether he should “go for it” as his masses of supporters wants and begs him to do, or maybe doing something totally different. Certainly it was unfair portraying him unbuttoning his pants.
I am no Zuma fan, but the cartoon is a prejudiced and not constructive.
The real question is not whether or not the S Times will keep Zapiro but why the Maul & Godiron keeps an @rsewhole ANC apologist like Trapido on its books, er pages.
Must be something about freedom of speech, I guess.
The drawing is better described as a caricature than a cartoon. Caricatures generally are OTT, unrealistic but often more on the mark than than other text or pictures. Often politicians are drawn as animals members of the other sex, etc. Even countries get the same treatment. They normally included exageration, hyperbole and distortion in order to get to the “truth”. Traps, you should inform yourself before you write for others.
is it zuma and the hooligans who surrond him you are concerned about or the rest of us. rape is disgusting and so is threatening our livelihood and mortaging our future. as die groot krokodil liked to say total onslaought need total strategy. the zunami declare war and i think theyshould be paid in kind.we will meet in the trenches!!!!!!
I have read through the comments and have found them both interesting & amusing.
In my opinion Zapiro’s cartoon highlights something that is becoming worryingly apparent - that SA is descending from a “democracy”(?)into a “kakistocracy”: Rule by the worst (Greek word but the first 3 letters are readily understandable in Afrikaans).
I agree with the many comments that Zapiro has hit the nail on the head and should certainly not be “punished” for his work.
Verbsap Sapienti on September 10th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
@moderatemajority: “The fact of the matter is that our justice system is under intense attack and in danger of being subverted for the sake of one man who refuses to answer a very strong case against him.”
How is our justice system under attack?
And your statement that Zuma refuses to answer a “very strong case” against him is pure bollocks.
He is answering it, very definitely. You just don’t like the fact that he isn’t pleading guilty and proceeding directly to jail. But if it were you facing a charge in criminal court, you would no doubt be trying all you could to avoid being found guilty too, if you felt there was a loophole to exploit.
Zuma has a perfect right to employ every legal stratagem to secure his acquittal.
“But if Mbeki or others are guilty as well, how will we ever find out other than by the presentation of evidence, in court? We need Zuma to go to trial, and implicate all others, ‘taking them down with’ him, or fall on his own.”
What you need and what you’re going to get are two different things.
Can you both stop your stupid squabblings about irrelevancies. We don’t give a damn about Britain at the moment. You both did the same about whether Russia was in Europe or not. It is bloody childish!
This is how the French Revolution started.
This is how the Russian Revolution started.
This is how the Chinese Revolution started.
In all cases intellectuals gave in and appeased a mob, mob rule took over and millions died!
THIS time we must learn from history and NOT appease the mob!
@Lyndall Beddy: There is a reason why revolutions took place in those countries and deposed the monarchies.
Wherever a monarchy has abused their subjects, eventually they have revolted.
Britain had its monarchy briefly deposed by Oliver Cromwell, but his rule was even worse than the Kingdom he overthrew and Britain reverted.
To prevent rebellions we need to look at the root causes of them and find ways to address issues before people take up arms to gain the freedom they seek.
South Africa avoided going down that path by negotiating with the ANC in the early 90s.
I can put your mind at rest. I have stopped our “stupid squabblings about irrelevancies” and will no longer comment on this blog.
I hope that readers of this blog can now concentrate on the wisdom, insights, wit, historical knowledge, relevant comments etc that are integral to your comments.
BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT on September 10th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Trapido,
Enough now with your directionless equivocation on the central questions (posed by Blacklisted Dictator). Why don’t you start attempting to answer these questions, especially that they go to the heart of the caricature itself?
Sorry - what you have been taught about those revolutions is propaganda not history. In none of the cases did “the people” revolt against monarchies or anything else. That is school book revisionary history. In all cases a middle class developed, went after power, and got overtaken by mob rule.
Being accused of rape by a woman and not being found guilty does not exempt one from any future criticism that uses a “rape” metaphor. Imagine Zapiro thinking, “Wow, what a perfect metaphor - the rape of the justice system! It’s exactly what can happen now to our country if we don’t look out! Oh, wait. He’s been accused of rape before so I can’t use that. And he’s black. We are not allowed to depict black men as rapists - only racists allow for the possibility that black men can be rapists. I will have to use it on someone who has never been accused of rape. Preferably a white guy. Bummer.” Yes, that is exactly how we want our independent thinkers and watchdogs to think like in a truly free and open society! Perhaps they need to write to the ruling party and request permission to criticize them, too.
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yesterday’s cartoon is, at the moment, metaphorically correct.
if there is a “political solution” to the current zuma “situation”, it becomes factually correct as well.
what, exactly, is the problem, mike? “be nice to the people in power who have no self-control when it comes to dealing with issues or people they don’t like or else?” is that what you’re saying? because that’s what it seems to me.
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