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	<title>Comments on: Xenophobia – Alexandra, a tale of two in one city</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael Trapido</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-35247</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Trapido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-35247</guid>
		<description>Barry I am not a dismissive person so in the interest of clarity :

Xenophobia is unreservedly condemned.

Any person who takes the law into their own hands as a solution to whatever problem has to be dealt with in accordance with the law.

Those committing violence relating to xenophobia must be denied bail.

Where people have grievances they must address them to the correct forums and parties - no matter how legitimate. Selh help is totally rejected.

People from other countries whatever their identity must be treated with dignity and kindness.

Finally I did this not to be sarcastic in any way but if Barry is right - and he may be - then this must be clarified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry I am not a dismissive person so in the interest of clarity :</p>
<p>Xenophobia is unreservedly condemned.</p>
<p>Any person who takes the law into their own hands as a solution to whatever problem has to be dealt with in accordance with the law.</p>
<p>Those committing violence relating to xenophobia must be denied bail.</p>
<p>Where people have grievances they must address them to the correct forums and parties &#8211; no matter how legitimate. Selh help is totally rejected.</p>
<p>People from other countries whatever their identity must be treated with dignity and kindness.</p>
<p>Finally I did this not to be sarcastic in any way but if Barry is right &#8211; and he may be &#8211; then this must be clarified.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-35135</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 12:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-35135</guid>
		<description>Jose

Before migrant labour was allowed in SA the mines and the farms had to compete for labour - which was therefore well paid.

If we stopped migrant labour - SA&#039;s unemployment would halve.

And why is black migrant labour allowed but not white or brown? A friend and her husband retired here with their British and French pensions and their life savings. He still works in a skilled job at 76 yrs old. When she went to Home Affairs in George she was told outright that white immigration was not allowed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jose</p>
<p>Before migrant labour was allowed in SA the mines and the farms had to compete for labour &#8211; which was therefore well paid.</p>
<p>If we stopped migrant labour &#8211; SA&#8217;s unemployment would halve.</p>
<p>And why is black migrant labour allowed but not white or brown? A friend and her husband retired here with their British and French pensions and their life savings. He still works in a skilled job at 76 yrs old. When she went to Home Affairs in George she was told outright that white immigration was not allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Louw</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-35132</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Louw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 12:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-35132</guid>
		<description>When you write that &quot;We’ve all agreed that xenophobia is a non–starter to be dealt with by the police and courts with a strong hand. Now let’s all get past that and start dealing with the main issues..... you betray the weakest link in your thinking in this and similar articles.

Fact. We all do not agree that xenophobia is a non-starter. It may interest you to listen to radio talk shows and hear the amount of hate that is still being spewed out at non-South Africans. Some that I interact with are not as bold to voice their true xenophobic feelings, so they keep quiet. I promise you, there is a huge conspiracy of silence in South Africa today. I am even bold enough to say that if an opinion poll was taken today, majority would favour getting rid of the foreigners. That is how polarized this has become.

So, my point is, it is well and good to look at the underlying reasons, which in your zeal to espouse, you come dangerously close to excusing the violence. Your words condemn the violence, but your sentiment embraces the perpetrators. Think about that.

I say, just as a paramedic first battles to keep his trauma victims alive, then transfers them to hospital for more in-depth investigations and treatment, the priority now in this climate is to stop the violence at all costs. If it requires the army, or state of emergency, so be it. When things  have been contained, we will then investigate and find solutions.

All your analysis and &#039;balanced views&#039; did precious little for the poor fellow burnt to death this morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you write that &#8220;We’ve all agreed that xenophobia is a non–starter to be dealt with by the police and courts with a strong hand. Now let’s all get past that and start dealing with the main issues&#8230;.. you betray the weakest link in your thinking in this and similar articles.</p>
<p>Fact. We all do not agree that xenophobia is a non-starter. It may interest you to listen to radio talk shows and hear the amount of hate that is still being spewed out at non-South Africans. Some that I interact with are not as bold to voice their true xenophobic feelings, so they keep quiet. I promise you, there is a huge conspiracy of silence in South Africa today. I am even bold enough to say that if an opinion poll was taken today, majority would favour getting rid of the foreigners. That is how polarized this has become.</p>
<p>So, my point is, it is well and good to look at the underlying reasons, which in your zeal to espouse, you come dangerously close to excusing the violence. Your words condemn the violence, but your sentiment embraces the perpetrators. Think about that.</p>
<p>I say, just as a paramedic first battles to keep his trauma victims alive, then transfers them to hospital for more in-depth investigations and treatment, the priority now in this climate is to stop the violence at all costs. If it requires the army, or state of emergency, so be it. When things  have been contained, we will then investigate and find solutions.</p>
<p>All your analysis and &#8216;balanced views&#8217; did precious little for the poor fellow burnt to death this morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Talking Points for 19 May &#171; BBC World Have Your Say</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-35082</link>
		<dc:creator>Talking Points for 19 May &#171; BBC World Have Your Say</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 09:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-35082</guid>
		<description>[...] who writes for Thought Leader in South Africa got in touch with WHYS- he&#8217;s been spekaing to people in the area about it. I went out onto [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who writes for Thought Leader in South Africa got in touch with WHYS- he&#8217;s been spekaing to people in the area about it. I went out onto [...]</p>
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		<title>By: grant montgomery</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34947</link>
		<dc:creator>grant montgomery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 13:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34947</guid>
		<description>The ANC government has denied that we have a refugee crisis.UN funded camps should have provided for the estimated 3 million.
Why? I believe one reason is to not embarress Mugabe.

If South africa was prospering, we would welcome workers as countries such as the USA, Europe, UAR etc do.
The whole scenario has the all too familiar stink of &#039;corruption&#039; about it.Why aren&#039;t the police, immigration officials and councils upholding the law?

After 14 years of black rule, the people realize they&#039;re worse off and so a scapegoat has been found!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ANC government has denied that we have a refugee crisis.UN funded camps should have provided for the estimated 3 million.<br />
Why? I believe one reason is to not embarress Mugabe.</p>
<p>If South africa was prospering, we would welcome workers as countries such as the USA, Europe, UAR etc do.<br />
The whole scenario has the all too familiar stink of &#8216;corruption&#8217; about it.Why aren&#8217;t the police, immigration officials and councils upholding the law?</p>
<p>After 14 years of black rule, the people realize they&#8217;re worse off and so a scapegoat has been found!</p>
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		<title>By: Chinese pre-imperial foreign policy &#171; de(e)pre(ce)ssion</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34933</link>
		<dc:creator>Chinese pre-imperial foreign policy &#171; de(e)pre(ce)ssion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 11:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34933</guid>
		<description>[...] that would be killed on the border, had they to return home). An empathic and rigorous analysis, field interviews in Alexandra&#8217;s township: in the M&amp;G&#8217;s op-eds by  Michael [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that would be killed on the border, had they to return home). An empathic and rigorous analysis, field interviews in Alexandra&#8217;s township: in the M&amp;G&#8217;s op-eds by  Michael [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jose barreira</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34888</link>
		<dc:creator>jose barreira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 21:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34888</guid>
		<description>@Lyndall
ANC doesn&#039;t have to stop migrant labour. It should&#039;t (mind, migrant labour also includes british immigrants). It&#039;s not correct, and in many cases it&#039;s even usefull. It just should put out the rules and stick to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lyndall<br />
ANC doesn&#8217;t have to stop migrant labour. It should&#8217;t (mind, migrant labour also includes british immigrants). It&#8217;s not correct, and in many cases it&#8217;s even usefull. It just should put out the rules and stick to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34823</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 12:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34823</guid>
		<description>Traps

GREAT investigative journalism. Thank you. I have so badly missed the investigative journalists of the 70s and 80s - like Helen Zille.

Mandrake

Zuma is CHANCELLOR of the University of Zululand? Dear God in Heaven! I thought he only learned to read and write on Robben Island - and reached the level of about standard 4 ? It should have been Buthelezi - he does have the educational qualifications.

Kalahari

What a beautiful description of the multi-cultural &quot;city that never sleeps&quot;.

Jose

The ANC in exile promised for years to stop migrant labour - as being unfair to South Africans, and exploitation by the mines. They didn&#039;t did they? Just climbed on the gravy train themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traps</p>
<p>GREAT investigative journalism. Thank you. I have so badly missed the investigative journalists of the 70s and 80s &#8211; like Helen Zille.</p>
<p>Mandrake</p>
<p>Zuma is CHANCELLOR of the University of Zululand? Dear God in Heaven! I thought he only learned to read and write on Robben Island &#8211; and reached the level of about standard 4 ? It should have been Buthelezi &#8211; he does have the educational qualifications.</p>
<p>Kalahari</p>
<p>What a beautiful description of the multi-cultural &#8220;city that never sleeps&#8221;.</p>
<p>Jose</p>
<p>The ANC in exile promised for years to stop migrant labour &#8211; as being unfair to South Africans, and exploitation by the mines. They didn&#8217;t did they? Just climbed on the gravy train themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Costa Gazi</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34811</link>
		<dc:creator>Costa Gazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 10:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34811</guid>
		<description>Mike Trapido has written a thoughtful article but has omitted a couple of things.

All African state boundaries were drawn up in Europe to allow the various colonisers to exploit the natives and not fight among themselves too much.
Africa is one - and if migrants are coming here from other parts of Africa, they should be welcomed. &quot;Xenophopbia&quot; is a nice intricate word that is as meaningless as the phrase &quot;informal settlements&quot; or &quot;black empowerment&quot;. Africans cannot be strangers in Africa. People move to seek a better life  -  but in the process they sacrifice roots which they should be preserving. 

So it is our government that is responsible for the anger of Alex residents. The truth is that such attitudes as blaming Zimbabweans and even Uncle Bob are useful ways of deflecting criticism from the lack of political will in government to solve the problems of poverty, shack-dwelling, crime and joblessness. 

The mounting inequalities in our democracy (a hollow one, since almost half the electorate do not vote any more) show no sign of reversing because the ANC has fully embraced the global nightmare of the US-dominated commercial world.

The last point is to remind Trapido - and others - that there was very little outcry made about the Somalis who have been murdered in large numbers over the past 3 years. No prosecution for any of those crimes has ever been made. Are the Somalis lesser Africans, or are we in tune with the cEthiopian invasion of Somalia (with US approval) and their killing of thousands of civilians and destruction of Mogadishu? Is it because they are Moslems or because they have proved to be good businessmen in their spaza shops? Had they become the Jews of the townships?

Yes, that persecution should have been nipped in the bud and it seems it was not in order to protect the interests of our emerging business class. We now reap the fruit of that insidious view which overlays the lack of political will to serve the poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Trapido has written a thoughtful article but has omitted a couple of things.</p>
<p>All African state boundaries were drawn up in Europe to allow the various colonisers to exploit the natives and not fight among themselves too much.<br />
Africa is one &#8211; and if migrants are coming here from other parts of Africa, they should be welcomed. &#8220;Xenophopbia&#8221; is a nice intricate word that is as meaningless as the phrase &#8220;informal settlements&#8221; or &#8220;black empowerment&#8221;. Africans cannot be strangers in Africa. People move to seek a better life  &#8211;  but in the process they sacrifice roots which they should be preserving. </p>
<p>So it is our government that is responsible for the anger of Alex residents. The truth is that such attitudes as blaming Zimbabweans and even Uncle Bob are useful ways of deflecting criticism from the lack of political will in government to solve the problems of poverty, shack-dwelling, crime and joblessness. </p>
<p>The mounting inequalities in our democracy (a hollow one, since almost half the electorate do not vote any more) show no sign of reversing because the ANC has fully embraced the global nightmare of the US-dominated commercial world.</p>
<p>The last point is to remind Trapido &#8211; and others &#8211; that there was very little outcry made about the Somalis who have been murdered in large numbers over the past 3 years. No prosecution for any of those crimes has ever been made. Are the Somalis lesser Africans, or are we in tune with the cEthiopian invasion of Somalia (with US approval) and their killing of thousands of civilians and destruction of Mogadishu? Is it because they are Moslems or because they have proved to be good businessmen in their spaza shops? Had they become the Jews of the townships?</p>
<p>Yes, that persecution should have been nipped in the bud and it seems it was not in order to protect the interests of our emerging business class. We now reap the fruit of that insidious view which overlays the lack of political will to serve the poor.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/comment-page-1/#comment-34808</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 09:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/#comment-34808</guid>
		<description>Good article Mike. But lets face it, there is no gameplan in place to address this. Most of what our government does is reactive (with the exception of planning cigarette smoking laws etc) and therefore subject to panic management. The result of this makes the problem disappear for a while but it will re-emerge again later and guess what, there will be no gameplan then either.
This has been coming for some time, you just have to listen the the conversations on the factory shop floors or talk to the lady who cleans your house to get an understanding of the feelings that many South Africans have regarding the influx if illegals living in their community. People will defend what they see as their own no matter what name we give it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article Mike. But lets face it, there is no gameplan in place to address this. Most of what our government does is reactive (with the exception of planning cigarette smoking laws etc) and therefore subject to panic management. The result of this makes the problem disappear for a while but it will re-emerge again later and guess what, there will be no gameplan then either.<br />
This has been coming for some time, you just have to listen the the conversations on the factory shop floors or talk to the lady who cleans your house to get an understanding of the feelings that many South Africans have regarding the influx if illegals living in their community. People will defend what they see as their own no matter what name we give it</p>
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