Comments on: Is religion the new social evil? Pope on the slippery slope?

By: Nick F

Nick F — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:14:45 +0000

@Paddy II
Interestingly though, I think all this talk of “poetic language, “metaphors” & “metaphysical questions” is just an excuse to shield theists from the very physical answers they propose. Because when it comes down to the social applications & policy, we have seen how some of these religious oerate (including the disgusting bits their texts advocate).

When it comes to matters of law, relationships,etc people dont go “oh well what do you mean by “bed” “A bed just contains atoms which themselves consist of large spaces between them so your claim that I shared a ‘bed’ with your best friend last night is totally unsophisticated & bizarre”.

Metaphors indeed.

By: Nick F

Nick F — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:08:26 +0000

@Paddy II

“Once we appreciate the thorough contingency of our language (that it aims not at truth, but at convenience) and the arbitrariness of our concepts, we realise that If any ultimate reality is to be imagined, it is WHOLLY BEYOND all of our concepts. So getting worked up about God’s existence is utterly futile. The faithful (who would hold steadfastly that “God exists”) and the atheists (”God does not exist”) are equally guilty of this futility.”

I am an atheist & I do not believe in your strawman ie “God does not exist”. There is no evidence yet, evidence that would suffice in any other field – medicine, law , science, even relationships – that suffices as evidence for this deity that people claim exists. Thus i do not have a belief in a deity the same I would for unicorns, hobgoblins etc.

I agree that language is a tool to describe reality but the atheists that I know, & myself included, criticise exactly the “language” that theists use to describe this deity & implement “his” will.

If these theists would not use this “poetic language & metaphor” to try & strengthen & enforce their claims (homosexuality, death for muslim apostates, stem cell research, abortion, condom use, threat of hellfire etc etc) on the rest of society there would be no need for atheists to question this “language we use to ask metaphysical questions”.

By: Rick Baker

Rick Baker — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:40:59 +0000

Thanks for a thought provoking article.
When the pope says condoms should be banned and do not help against Aids it puts him in the same category as jehova’s witnesses who are prepared to let their childrin die because their FAITH won’t allow blood transfusions. This faith is based entirely on imagination with no factual evidence whatsoever …..its no wonder that intelligent people are questioning it and the number of non believers is growing exponentially. I’m one of them. (I understand that in Sweden more than 80% of the population is classed as non believer’)

By: mike

mike — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:37:47 +0000

when all things around us are amazing and unexplainable, like they are to very young children people were very superstitious. all things around us had a spirit, big things like the sun and moon had or were gods. some bright sparks around the world found that it was easy to govern people through superstition, then became easier to cahrge taxes. we have government now and no longer need the church to impose laws or to uphold them or to punish us. most holy books are written on a similar theme, dont nick stuff, dont screw around, be nice to people etc and for that the mainstream religions did a fair job but now we have laws.
religions have done a lot to form and bind communities but then so have wars. this lack of regular church attendance and the lack of a home front war are part of why we need something new. hopefully not another religion that relies on blind faith, and certainly not a home front war.

By: MidaFo

MidaFo — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:10:10 +0000

With respect Paris ‘Justice does not reside within the Catholic Church but rather within the secular world’ is lazy thinking. As is pointed out by bloggers above and elsewhere, the structure of a society is founded on its language, which in turn rests on a perspective of belief forged in reality; in short, our history. The monotheist perspective underpins not only the secular but even the atheist in the culture of the West.
The absurdity of the monotheist religions is one side of the coin expressing the value of the socio-economic reality that has been built up around it, meaning that Current affairs in the West are not disconnected from this matter of religion. George W Bush (a pitiful Captain Hook) and his fellow pirates/pushers are not an accident: they are the best we have. (Read the American news about the primaries–Bugs Bunny in reality. Listen to Western politicians pretending that what is going on in America is valid.)

Once upon a time the West was the best we had, and thanks to it, but its time has come and it has to be dispensed with. The authority it abrogates is no longer of value. GWB and the Americans have done us a service by effectively ridiculing Western ideas of democracy, justice, value and the very concept of the nation state.
I repeat it is not the Western and middle eastern monotheist religions that are solely to blame.
Watch the West continue to steal and kill in the name of Jesus/Justice/Democracy/’God’/Profit/McDonalds/Other Flavours Of The Day, because ‘I’m worth it’ as it has for hundreds of years. Watch them do it until its back is broken.

It would be better if we in the West were to wipe the egg off our face as Ivan so gently suggests. We have to learn to accept and respect other cultural insights as equal and often superior to our own.
We must realise (understand and ensure the acceptance) that all conceptions of the ultimate (God if you like—I don’t) are regional to the extreme of the individual concerned and that this is a factor of disunity only for the lazy thinker.

This is ‘the way’ in Taoism.

The astonishing childishness of the West has to stop.

By: Ivan

Ivan — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:56:33 +0000

Thank you for your article, it depicts, sadly, the nowadays situation in the world with its prejudices, exclusive truth and even political intricacies of “religions”.

One of the emerging religions is the baha’i faith, second most wide spread religion in the world, that promotes the unity of God, the unity of the religions and the unity of mankind with teachings like equality between men and women, the elimination of prejudices of all race, color, creed, etc., the essential harmony between science and religion and spiritual solutions to economical problems among its basic principles.

Though it is a religion with laws and teachings, it doesn’t have any clergy. Though baha’is share their teachings, it is forbidden for them to proselytize and they also have the clear teaching of “it is better to be killed than to kill” that cannot possibly be interpreted in a different opposite way.

I wish you would have presented this new religion in your article as it can kind of give a balance in our world that is so disturbed nowadays…

Thank you also everyone for your comments on the topic, it is very insightful!

By: Paris

Paris — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:52:21 +0000

Benedict XVI is not at all an image of God nor does he resemble Christ one iota. Did Christ speak Latin? So how can the Vicar of Christ make Latin the “official language” of the Mystical Body of Christ? When did Christ ever wear red expensive shoes, don on ornate ceremonial albs, be surrounded and protected by a private army, be a political head of state, write Ph.D books no one can understand except himself and by a few men, oppress those who work with and for the poor like Jon Sobrino in El Salvador? If Christ were to visit Rome today, what would he say about the worse sins of pedophile priests seething beneath the Vatican archives (Crimen Sollicitationis)- tolerated and covered-up by Benedict for 27 years – which are worse than the sins at the Temple of Solomon? http://pope-ratz.blogspot.com/2008/04/opus-dei-pope-2-benedict-xvi-red-shoes.html Benedict XVI -Ratzinger: God’s Rottweiler

Would Christ recognize the Peter-the-Rock clones residing at the grand palace of the Vatican rivaling the palace of the Ceasars of Rome? Christ would gag at his ostentious “Vicar of Christ” when they meet for the first time, they’d be like the Prince and the Pauper, the Pope being (and dressed as) the Prince! http://pope-ratz.blogspot.com/ Benedict XVI -Ratzinger: God’s Rottweiler

Justice does not reside within the Catholic Church but rather within the secular world (which Benedict keeps preaching against). It was secular lawyers that got some justice for the countless American victims of clergy sexual abuse. It was always Benedict XVI then Cardinal Ratzinger and John Paul II and the Opus Dei (controls papacy) who for more than 27 years covered-up this most heinous crime against American children in the 20th century. http://pope-ratz.blogspot.com/ Benedict XVI -Ratzinger: God’s Rottweiler

Victims – Attackers – Responsible Leaders

Pearl Harbor – 3,000 victims – 170 planes – Admiral Yamamoto

WTC & 9/11 attacks – 5,000 victims – 19 Muslims – Osama bin Laden

USA Priest Pedophilia – 12,000 victims – 5,448 pedophile priests – John Paul II + Benedict XVI + Opus Dei
http://pope-ratz.blogspot.com/ Benedict XVI -Ratzinger: God’s Rottweiler

By: Clive A

Clive A — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:19:34 +0000

I don’t think that religion is a new social evil – it is a very old social evil. If you need any convincing you could read a book which I have recently read about the Catholic Church (Double Cross: The Code of the Ctaholic Church by David Ranan.) It is very well researched and extremely well written.

By: MidaFo

MidaFo — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:52:36 +0000

PS; Traps you are way off the mark with regard to China.

By: MidaFo

MidaFo — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:51:38 +0000

As a contribution to what is ultimately the most important debate of all (despite Paddy 11′s good post to the contrary) we have the language to deal with this seemingly intractable argument.

There are many ways of understanding God, namely deism, pantheism, monotheism and theism.

In deism God wound up the universe/world and left it to its own devices: in a way He is (just)the Big Bang.

Pantheism presumes there is no distinction between God and the universe: in a way He is the Big Whimper.

Monotheism asserts there is only one caring/just God (often the Father)who is greater than the Universe and He is Mine: in a way He is Us meaning in the end He is Me for I am the one who thinks of Him (and what else can be in my mind but me?).

Theists (which Paddy 11 seems to misunderstand) recognise that this infinitely great God of all appears to mankind in as many ways as there are minds to think of Him and that this resultant collective is the source of time and the Universe. I think Traps is indicating this.

If you think about it it can be clear that all the others are selective aberrations of theism.

Monotheism is the Great Criminal here. In truth the Universe is intimate to us and any man who claims it is more intimate to himself than others is a pervert, with Jews Christians and Islamic peoples being clearly excessively guilty of this perversion. Between them they have dedicated their time to killing God for centuries: refer to the wars amongst the plethora of other things. Perhaps the crassly stupid greed of such as America and Israel now will be seen as the absurdity it is to shame all monotheists into confessing and recanting, but I doubt it, after all those who believed in Apartheid, which is from the same source, have by and large not recanted: they are just quiet.