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	<title>Comments on: How long will SA Inc hold on to Reaganomics?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/</link>
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		<title>By: MrK</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-89135</link>
		<dc:creator>MrK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It is sad that the ANC fell for the neoliberal movement (the MDC is neoliberal too), instead of holding true to the principles of the Freedom Charter. 

With so many people living in poverty, they should be pursuing economic policies that raise incomes, not raise exports and &#039;investor confidence&#039; at all costs. Job creation and raising incomes - through investment in agriculture and infrastructure, protecting manufacturing, and guaranteeing a minimum wage. 

The way to do that is to treat the extractive industries as the special economic sector that it is, and which should be heavily taxed if it is in private hands and if not, nationalized outright. 

Many of the successful Asian economies have most of their economy run by parastatals, so it can be done (although I am not even suggesting going that far, for South Africa). The difference in development is because they never allowed their economies to be run by the IMF and World Bank. 

So I say - heavliy tax the mines or nationalize them, and use money from that sector to invest in infrastructure, agriculture and manufacturing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is sad that the ANC fell for the neoliberal movement (the MDC is neoliberal too), instead of holding true to the principles of the Freedom Charter. </p>
<p>With so many people living in poverty, they should be pursuing economic policies that raise incomes, not raise exports and &#8216;investor confidence&#8217; at all costs. Job creation and raising incomes &#8211; through investment in agriculture and infrastructure, protecting manufacturing, and guaranteeing a minimum wage. </p>
<p>The way to do that is to treat the extractive industries as the special economic sector that it is, and which should be heavily taxed if it is in private hands and if not, nationalized outright. </p>
<p>Many of the successful Asian economies have most of their economy run by parastatals, so it can be done (although I am not even suggesting going that far, for South Africa). The difference in development is because they never allowed their economies to be run by the IMF and World Bank. </p>
<p>So I say &#8211; heavliy tax the mines or nationalize them, and use money from that sector to invest in infrastructure, agriculture and manufacturing.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolaas Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84952</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolaas Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84952</guid>
		<description>The average inflation rate during the last 13 years of apartheid rule was 12.5% pa. The average inflation rate during ANC rule (the last 11 years with Mboweni at the SARB) is 6.7% pa. Congratulations Tito Mboweni! That is the good news. The bad news is that 61.8% of the real value of Retained Earnings in all companies and 61.8% of the real value of Shareholders´ Equity in all companies with no variable real value non-monetary items to revalue since April 1994 have unknowingly been destroyed by SA accountants implementing the very destructive stable measuring unit assumption as part of the real vlaue destroying traditional Historical Cost Accounting model. When our accountants choose, in terms of the IASB´s Framework, Par. 104 (a), to measure financial capital maintenance in units of constant purchasing power, which is compliant with IFRS, they will maintain instead of unknowingly destroy about R200 billion in real value in the SA real economy annually for an unlimited period of time - ceteris paribus. The lower Mboweni can bring inflation the less real value our accountants will unknowingly destroy while they still implement the very destructive stable measuring unit assumption whereunder they assume there is no such thing as inflation as far as the valuation of constant items is concerned. http://realvalueaccounting.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The average inflation rate during the last 13 years of apartheid rule was 12.5% pa. The average inflation rate during ANC rule (the last 11 years with Mboweni at the SARB) is 6.7% pa. Congratulations Tito Mboweni! That is the good news. The bad news is that 61.8% of the real value of Retained Earnings in all companies and 61.8% of the real value of Shareholders´ Equity in all companies with no variable real value non-monetary items to revalue since April 1994 have unknowingly been destroyed by SA accountants implementing the very destructive stable measuring unit assumption as part of the real vlaue destroying traditional Historical Cost Accounting model. When our accountants choose, in terms of the IASB´s Framework, Par. 104 (a), to measure financial capital maintenance in units of constant purchasing power, which is compliant with IFRS, they will maintain instead of unknowingly destroy about R200 billion in real value in the SA real economy annually for an unlimited period of time &#8211; ceteris paribus. The lower Mboweni can bring inflation the less real value our accountants will unknowingly destroy while they still implement the very destructive stable measuring unit assumption whereunder they assume there is no such thing as inflation as far as the valuation of constant items is concerned. <a href="http://realvalueaccounting.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://realvalueaccounting.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Felas</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84715</link>
		<dc:creator>Felas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84715</guid>
		<description>Workers need a living wage. Given our history flexible labour laws could mean exploitation. Unfortunately with the advent of globalisation businesses have becom less loyal and less patriotic, what guarantees do we have that they will invest the profits they make out of cheap labour into our economy and create more jobs. In a country where the costs of the main cost drivers of the budgets of the poor such as food, transport are astronomical and actually the main drivers of inflation we cannot talk about lowering of wages. Let us work on lowering the cost of living for the working poor, I am sure the Far Eastern model also ensured that cost of living was low and that quality education and health was made available for free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Workers need a living wage. Given our history flexible labour laws could mean exploitation. Unfortunately with the advent of globalisation businesses have becom less loyal and less patriotic, what guarantees do we have that they will invest the profits they make out of cheap labour into our economy and create more jobs. In a country where the costs of the main cost drivers of the budgets of the poor such as food, transport are astronomical and actually the main drivers of inflation we cannot talk about lowering of wages. Let us work on lowering the cost of living for the working poor, I am sure the Far Eastern model also ensured that cost of living was low and that quality education and health was made available for free.</p>
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		<title>By: The Creator</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84625</link>
		<dc:creator>The Creator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84625</guid>
		<description>Look, it&#039;s a moot point. The West is not producing 1930s economics -- it&#039;s stealing from the poor and giving to the rich (note how unemployment is soaring over there while the stock market is rising and the fat-cats in banks and big factories are doing very nicely). That&#039;s definitely not what South Africa needs.

The problem is that a massive expansion in labour-intensive public works, along the lines of the CCC in the New Deal, would be extremely expensive. It could probably be organised by raising taxes, but that would entail changing the whole government model -- they&#039;d have to reintroduce exchange controls to prevent capital flight. That might easily lead to a withdrawal of foreign investment, which could cause huge problems for the current acount deficit which is funded by foreign investment.

We&#039;re in something of a cleft stick, I fear, unless we take really dramatic measures which I&#039;m sure Zuma is unprepared to take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, it&#8217;s a moot point. The West is not producing 1930s economics &#8212; it&#8217;s stealing from the poor and giving to the rich (note how unemployment is soaring over there while the stock market is rising and the fat-cats in banks and big factories are doing very nicely). That&#8217;s definitely not what South Africa needs.</p>
<p>The problem is that a massive expansion in labour-intensive public works, along the lines of the CCC in the New Deal, would be extremely expensive. It could probably be organised by raising taxes, but that would entail changing the whole government model &#8212; they&#8217;d have to reintroduce exchange controls to prevent capital flight. That might easily lead to a withdrawal of foreign investment, which could cause huge problems for the current acount deficit which is funded by foreign investment.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re in something of a cleft stick, I fear, unless we take really dramatic measures which I&#8217;m sure Zuma is unprepared to take.</p>
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		<title>By: Havelock Vetinari</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84620</link>
		<dc:creator>Havelock Vetinari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84620</guid>
		<description>By the way, Mr. Robbins, it surprises me that you haven&#039;t adopted a nom de plume, given that there is another, highly successful (and successfully high), writer by that name...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Mr. Robbins, it surprises me that you haven&#8217;t adopted a nom de plume, given that there is another, highly successful (and successfully high), writer by that name&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Havelock Vetinari</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84618</link>
		<dc:creator>Havelock Vetinari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84618</guid>
		<description>Two vital things the author seems to have missed:

The Eastern growth was based ENTIRELY on cheap labour, something which South Africa can not stomach.  Note: the oversupply of unemployed people willing to provide labour for what little money they could get in an unregulated labour market led to low production costs and the potential to milk export markets, which in turn grew the economy and provided the cheap labourers with better opportunities.

In other words, with South Africa&#039;s labour laws we will never be in a position to produce significantly cheaper products than elsewhere, so we will have limited export opportunities.  Currency fluctuations only help in the very short term, since forex valuation of a currency will be reflected shortly in the domestic valuation - ie inflation and higher production costs.

Secondly, an export economy requires buyers.  China had the benefit of a robust US market, with americans spending far beyond their means.  In the current global economy, everyone is being very careful with their money, and will continue to do so for several years still.  It would not surprise me to see global economic stagnation for the next four to five years.

Devaluing the currency is equivalent to putting lipstick on a corpse - it may look nice for a while, but it&#039;s just as dead and will start stinking in short order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two vital things the author seems to have missed:</p>
<p>The Eastern growth was based ENTIRELY on cheap labour, something which South Africa can not stomach.  Note: the oversupply of unemployed people willing to provide labour for what little money they could get in an unregulated labour market led to low production costs and the potential to milk export markets, which in turn grew the economy and provided the cheap labourers with better opportunities.</p>
<p>In other words, with South Africa&#8217;s labour laws we will never be in a position to produce significantly cheaper products than elsewhere, so we will have limited export opportunities.  Currency fluctuations only help in the very short term, since forex valuation of a currency will be reflected shortly in the domestic valuation &#8211; ie inflation and higher production costs.</p>
<p>Secondly, an export economy requires buyers.  China had the benefit of a robust US market, with americans spending far beyond their means.  In the current global economy, everyone is being very careful with their money, and will continue to do so for several years still.  It would not surprise me to see global economic stagnation for the next four to five years.</p>
<p>Devaluing the currency is equivalent to putting lipstick on a corpse &#8211; it may look nice for a while, but it&#8217;s just as dead and will start stinking in short order.</p>
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		<title>By: john Bond</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84612</link>
		<dc:creator>john Bond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84612</guid>
		<description>@ Old, female, paleface

Do you know what the trouble is with you…   (and me!)

The problem is, you (and I) keep saying “déjà vu” and “I’ve seen it before” and “remember Mozambique/Argentina/Zimbabwe (delete those not applicable)” .

We suffer from an ailment called by many names like reactionary, or conservative, or old fashioned. The real dilemma is when things do not work, we ask why and then try to remember the lesson.

South Africans don’t want to hear criticism, regardless of how misguided their ideas may be. It&#039;s much more fun being creative and to hell with the outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Old, female, paleface</p>
<p>Do you know what the trouble is with you…   (and me!)</p>
<p>The problem is, you (and I) keep saying “déjà vu” and “I’ve seen it before” and “remember Mozambique/Argentina/Zimbabwe (delete those not applicable)” .</p>
<p>We suffer from an ailment called by many names like reactionary, or conservative, or old fashioned. The real dilemma is when things do not work, we ask why and then try to remember the lesson.</p>
<p>South Africans don’t want to hear criticism, regardless of how misguided their ideas may be. It&#8217;s much more fun being creative and to hell with the outcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84571</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/#comment-84571</guid>
		<description>I agree. Lets take the the rand, a single rand (R1). If the rate of circulation of R1 is 14 times per annum, then the government has through VAT taken R2 out of the economy.
For every R1 that the government takes out, a conservative 10c is put back into the economy. The other R1.90 is wasted, that is spent, and there is nothing of value shown for it.
Not only must interest rates be dropped, but also uneconomic taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Lets take the the rand, a single rand (R1). If the rate of circulation of R1 is 14 times per annum, then the government has through VAT taken R2 out of the economy.<br />
For every R1 that the government takes out, a conservative 10c is put back into the economy. The other R1.90 is wasted, that is spent, and there is nothing of value shown for it.<br />
Not only must interest rates be dropped, but also uneconomic taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: mundundu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84534</link>
		<dc:creator>mundundu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>god, i&#039;m agreeing with jon &quot;darkies are always wrong&quot; low. clearly there is a major disturbance in the force. 

to piggyback from what jon said -- you&#039;re not entirely right or wrong. as the original poster mentioned, cosatu are actually right about a few things, but they&#039;re right for the wrong reasons. they&#039;re right about the effects of higher interest rates on the workers, but real problem with the high interest rates is that it stifles entrepreneurship [i know about this bit, personally] and makes large-scale employers more indebted -- many of the world cup stadia cost overruns are *directly* related to interest rate hikes. 

[the government should have issued guaranteed bonds to pay for the stadia to be protected against this rather than pay for them out of their general budget. it would have saved a ton of money.]

yaj: peak oil is less of an issue regarding south african inflation than the wto -- imports and domestically produced goods must be competitively priced. this includes food, and that&#039;s where south africans [hell, almost all africans] are being soaked. if zimbabwe worked and angola and mozambique weren&#039;t riddled with land mines, south africa would actually be able to stop importing as much food as it does from &quot;overseas&quot;. food prices would fall like a stone as a result. however, the reality being what it is, south africans get to suffer. 

it&#039;s far easier to blame oil prices when the case is really something less tangible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god, i&#8217;m agreeing with jon &#8220;darkies are always wrong&#8221; low. clearly there is a major disturbance in the force. </p>
<p>to piggyback from what jon said &#8212; you&#8217;re not entirely right or wrong. as the original poster mentioned, cosatu are actually right about a few things, but they&#8217;re right for the wrong reasons. they&#8217;re right about the effects of higher interest rates on the workers, but real problem with the high interest rates is that it stifles entrepreneurship [i know about this bit, personally] and makes large-scale employers more indebted &#8212; many of the world cup stadia cost overruns are *directly* related to interest rate hikes. </p>
<p>[the government should have issued guaranteed bonds to pay for the stadia to be protected against this rather than pay for them out of their general budget. it would have saved a ton of money.]</p>
<p>yaj: peak oil is less of an issue regarding south african inflation than the wto &#8212; imports and domestically produced goods must be competitively priced. this includes food, and that&#8217;s where south africans [hell, almost all africans] are being soaked. if zimbabwe worked and angola and mozambique weren&#8217;t riddled with land mines, south africa would actually be able to stop importing as much food as it does from &#8220;overseas&#8221;. food prices would fall like a stone as a result. however, the reality being what it is, south africans get to suffer. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s far easier to blame oil prices when the case is really something less tangible.</p>
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		<title>By: mundundu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/tomrobbins/2009/06/05/how-long-will-sa-inc-hold-on-to-reaganomics/comment-page-1/#comment-84532</link>
		<dc:creator>mundundu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>yeah, i&#039;m completely not understanding why manuel et cie want to hold to 1980s fiscal policies when 1930s policies are more in order [and remember, the new deal almost failed because roosevelt wanted to balance the budget in 1935/6]. 

and, for dave harris/phillipa lipinsky -- it&#039;s 15 years since &quot;democracy&quot; and you are saying that there is no qualified black person for finance minister? 

[and to be honest, someone should *really* point this out to those raking zille over the coals. zille would do right to point this out herself; it&#039;s a shame that the da are collectively too polite to go for the jugular in the way that the anc&#039;s lackeys are.]

reaganomics didn&#039;t entirely work, actually. it wiped out union protections -- american workers, it must be said get zero guaranteed leave in a calendar year -- and in most service jobs, it&#039;s not even offered in the first year. this is bad, from a quality of life point of view. a domestic worker in south africa gets more leave than nearly 40 percent of americans in the work force. lolwut?

most union protections are good -- but it&#039;s the bad ones which get all the press. union protections are why europeans work less hours but are &quot;more/almost as productive&quot; than americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, i&#8217;m completely not understanding why manuel et cie want to hold to 1980s fiscal policies when 1930s policies are more in order [and remember, the new deal almost failed because roosevelt wanted to balance the budget in 1935/6]. </p>
<p>and, for dave harris/phillipa lipinsky &#8212; it&#8217;s 15 years since &#8220;democracy&#8221; and you are saying that there is no qualified black person for finance minister? </p>
<p>[and to be honest, someone should *really* point this out to those raking zille over the coals. zille would do right to point this out herself; it's a shame that the da are collectively too polite to go for the jugular in the way that the anc's lackeys are.]</p>
<p>reaganomics didn&#8217;t entirely work, actually. it wiped out union protections &#8212; american workers, it must be said get zero guaranteed leave in a calendar year &#8212; and in most service jobs, it&#8217;s not even offered in the first year. this is bad, from a quality of life point of view. a domestic worker in south africa gets more leave than nearly 40 percent of americans in the work force. lolwut?</p>
<p>most union protections are good &#8212; but it&#8217;s the bad ones which get all the press. union protections are why europeans work less hours but are &#8220;more/almost as productive&#8221; than americans.</p>
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