This week’s Talkback question on the Mail & Guardian Online:
Was UFS vice-chancellor Jonathan Jansen right to drop charges against the Reitz Four?
Read more
This week’s Talkback question on the Mail & Guardian Online:
Was UFS vice-chancellor Jonathan Jansen right to drop charges against the Reitz Four?
Read more
Yes. Jansen was right.
No, he was dead WRONG–
he is behaving like a spineless puppet.
No – he was wrong – especially as it has now come to light that he didn’t even do the proper consultations with the people affected by the perpetrators’ barbarism!!
Reconciliation doesn’t mean we can’t punish people – what kind of country is this going to turn out into if we excuse people’s crimes only ‘for the sake of reconciliation’ each time these crimes are committed??!
We’re taking reconciliation, which was a noble concept that helped us usher in a new South Africa, and turning it into an absurd principle that let’s people off scot-free.
I can assure you that reconciliation isn’t a synonym for tolerating activities such as those committed by the so-called Reitz-four.
people must remember that this Jensen is an Afrikaans speaking person and so are the accused racist hooligans. the questions is if the victims coloured people what would have jensen done. lets also remember that this saga is reponsible for jensen position at the University, that he was appoited after this saga to try cool the tempers. now the very same person is boiling the tempers.
the problem is coloured people because they speak Afrikaans they think they are WHITE.
Reconciliation at whose expense? This is a racial matter!! Blacks were and continue to get the rough end of the stick.
It is also a moral issue.
On both stances, the honourable Mr Jansen has failed. He failed himself as a black person, he failed the entire black community and he failed South Africa. History will live to tell the tale.
People must not speak nonsense about a prank, we know what a prank is. That was disrispectfull.
How about we consider the crime that is visited upon the whites especially a “prank” hum?
Jansen has been exposed as liar. How can he claimed that he consulted all stakeholders, when he did not even have the common decency to ask the opinion of the victims. As brilliant as he is, this Prof. lacks leadership skills.
I was under the impression that he allowed them to complete their studies. He did not drop charges, in the sense that they are still to be tried in court.
I do not believe that they are likely to repeat their actions.
I do not believe that others are likely to repeat them either.
On those two grounds, punishment seems futile.
Perhaps you believe that punishment will quench people’s thirst for revenge. People who want revenge are to be pitied. They will not be satiated by revenge in this or that instance. They will hang on to their feelings of hurt for as long as they possibly can. They will always find yet another example of how this or that whitey hurt or insulted them. Their hurt can only be dealt with by their own internal processes, not by punishing others. That is why Tutu so rightly points out that forgiveness is not for sissies.
I believe that Jansen himself has moved passed his own hurts and fears, and is trying to create a climate and culture where others do the same. Listen carefully to his reasoning. To do this is hard work. It requires a lot of self-introspection.
Punishing others is not going to make you feel better, even though you might initially think so.
My worry is that sometimes politicians take poor people for a ride when they canvas them to go and match against the Professor’s strategic move. Will they make noise if these boys get away with a light sentense or even community service sentence. It is about time we engage issues with the required level of matured thinking mand take emotions out of it, the prof. will always enjoy the support of silent majority.
The Nutty Professor is clearly wrong.
Stop setting these issues up as ‘either or’ thereby setting us all up as ‘for or against’ each other and reconciliation. There is a world inbetween. Have the balls to educate us so that we UNDERSTAND stop priming us for kneejerk responses.
Reconciliation is not about personalities and icons, its about all of us starting to think as ‘we’ and about ‘our’ society. Maybe you can start framing issues in that way too – who knows, the media effect might just move us in the right direction.
Replace the adversarial frame with a more positive frame please.
Everyone here is so racially polarized that they can’t deal with this issue in a rational way. What if the perpetrators had done something sexist, or homophobic or xenophobic? Would there still be this pressure to have them kicked out of the university? Sure they should be punished, but because of the history of this country, many people want a punishment that is not equal to the crime. They are young and need to learn the error of their ways. Kicking them out won’t change their attitudes.
Jansen was 100% right and those old ladies are only being such crybabies now because they think they can make some money out of it. Shame on them!
the continued attack of black people by some racist punks will not go unnotice for long, since apartheid till now blacks are attacked and we never retaliated it may not go for long.
Jansen decision was hypocritical, callous and simply panders to his white masters who installed him in that position for good reason.
Leniency towards the perpetrators instead of compassion to the victims is an outrage! Their racist video depicts these white-AA students pissing on the integration efforts of UFS and portrays blacks as bumbling idiots. The video is forever preserved on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8N-h8anSuE&feature=fvw for the world to see the creations of apartheid.
By dropping the charges against these racist students, Jansen sends a clear message that he is only paying lip service to transformation. Jansen’s mentality is the most destructive to our transformation and healing as a society and he should step aside asap in order for UFS to become an institution of learning for all races.
These students need to be proscuted to the FULL extent of the law in order to:
1. Send a clear message to other would be perpetrators that this despicable behavior will not be tolerated.
2. Demonstrate to the victims and the black community that justice has been served at last and not the urine they tasted.
It is unfair to portray Prof Jansen as a stooge of racists, pissing on the dignity of the victims, while leaving the perpretators with the smirk of racist chauvinism on their faces (as Zapiro’s cartoon portrays it). The way I understand his strategy, he has embarked on radically transforming the underlying culture of the UFS that has produced such despicable events – rather than dealing with symptoms. We may debate the strategy, but why crucify a highly committed and courageous person? I wish Prof Jansen all the best in the extremely difficult task of tackling the rot at its root.
Nyawuza, your threats are hollow and scare no-one. And, Harris, the “full extent of the law” is a toothless threat too — the charge is only “crimen injuria” — hurting of feelings — a mere joke of a charge which exists only in SA and nowhere else on earth. The penalty is a small fine. Big deal!
Jansen needs to be made aware that when the incident occured like the rest of us he was informed of this awful incident through media, His rectorship at the institution does not provide him with authority to forgive the perpetrators. In fact he should be reminded that he has no moral authority to forgive those thugs and to reverse the advance that has been made in ensuring that justice is served. On the other hand, it is true that Jansen is not aware of how deep this matter cuts especially to people who are affected. In any case it would be absurd for us to think that an Afrikaans speaking Jansen has the interest of transforming Afrikaans identity of UFS for better. His attitude of making national reconciliation a personal crusade, treating criminals with more leniency than necessary speaks volume of mindset.
People like Blip, seems to be deriving much unpleseant pleasure at the sxpense of pain of others, it is unfortunate that New South Africa still houses people with such irritating thinking. Your thoughts reflect someone who is suffering from the apartheid nostalgic syndrome. A pain of a black person excites you, it is a source of joy to you. In your argument it is not even about the interest of nation-building or consensus on what constitutes reconciliation, how we should approach grey areas in consensus seeking in order to achieve reconciliation. You are unaware that it is not up to the university to forgive those students without the inclusion of the victims. If anyone who claims to be acting in national-interest, he knows that he could have held a public debate on the matter, invited opinions from different and varied sources and public commentators which he failed to do. Unfortunately he is forcing his own definition of reconciliation to South Africans. I also don’t believe in his capacity to bring about transformation in that intitution. The rector himself has a history of creating comfort within traditional white institutions and his employment at UFS is nothing else but what Dr. Vincent Maphai calls a peacock approach. The UFS council employed him just to get the colours better not for transformation sake. Mind you he is an Afrikaans speaker.
Jansen is wrong in allowing students back unto the campus. Yes university is a learning school and a student’s age should be taken into consideration when punishment is dealt. However, some acts should get you removed permanently, like those in questions.
Bur is goes deeper. How does Jansen’s pardon encourage transformation. It seems that Jansen believes most white students associate with the 4 perpetrators. And if this is the case we have a serious problem. Can all white student’s really be grouped into one basket and black students into another. Those this act not create an even further divide?
It’s truly sick and sad when xenophobia, rape and murder only generate a drop of the outrage that this fiasco has brewed. Not to mention students trashing university property. I say let the law take its course, forgive and move on. Google Amy Biehl. As Prof Jansen has found out (again) it’s not easy to do the right thing and take the first step. There are plenty of unreconstructed racists on both sides who want the sores to fester forever.
Whether right or wrong I take my hat of to Jansen for having the guts to make a decision without pandering to the whims ,wants or wishes of the allmighty ANC .It is courage like his that will make this country reach its true potential.
Kgotso,
What exactly do you mean when you say “Mind you he is an Afrikaans speaker”. Lyk my jou rasistiese onderrok hang bietjie te ver uit of hoe ?
There are idiots on both sides of this coin.
The Reitz four are idiots and so are the cleaning staff who allowed themselves to be part of the intiation. I say “allowed” because there is no indication whatsoever that they were forced into the initiation and could have called it quits at any time.
Was this a standard initiation practice at the Reitz residence? If so, surely the cleaners would have seen it happening year after year and would have known what was going to happen? And if it is a standard practice then were the students not treating the cleaners like they would one of their own? In which case, where is the racism?
It would be racist if the Reitz 4 forced the cleaners into the ritual against their will and conducted a ritual that they would never had contemplated conducting on a white person. Not one of these issues is answered in any of the reporting!
On the reported facts I feel nothing for the Reitz 4 as they are fools, but equally I feel nothing for the cleaners because they are equally foolish.
Jansen may be going in the right direction: instead of punishing and promoting hatred (like the ANCYL), rather bring people out into the open where they can express whatever attitudes they may have towards another group without fear of reprisal.
Maybe, just maybe, Jansen is on the right track by getting people to talk to each other and, hopefully, understand each other.
I have read the 6 page Speech that Prof Jansen made. Please read it !!, then comment. The institution have been complicit in allowing a culture of racism to foster to prevail on its campus and specifically in its hostels. The criminal charge has NOT been withdrawn !!
The “criminal” charge is crimen injuria — a “crime” only in SA and nowhere else. It’s a petty offence carrying a paltry sanction. Quite fitting. It’s pretty much a waste of court-room time.
In this country, no one wants reconciliation-People want their garden boys and kitchen meisies back (Seen http://fto.co.za/who-cares-about-2010-soccer-world-cup) lately!