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59 Responses to “The rise of xenophobia: Is the govt supporting foreigners at the expense of locals?”
I know that South Africa already has its own share of poor and unemployed to worry about, but I can’t help feeling like we would be a lesser nation if we turned people away at the door who desperately need our help. After all, wouldn’t we want them to do the same for us?
The government supports nobody but its own family and cronies.
Having listened to many people reporting their experiences from within Alex it seems that the attacks are being committed by a bunch of unemployed youth who live in hostels. And its not about jobs or resources: These youngsters, according to many callers to radio stations, could not compete in the job market with all the foreign artisans, nurses, entrepeneurs they attack, because the youth are illiterate and unskilled (thanks to 14 years of zero education)
For 14 years we have neglected the children in this country. Hundreds of thousands of feral children have now grown up. We are now reaping the whirlwind of 14 years of National Child Neglect. Instead of welcoming fresh generations of engineers and nurses and teachers and carpenters we are on the brink of being swamped by a generation of Feral Adults.
I believe this violence will spread beyond foreigners. Gone are the days when your car is hijacked by 2-3 feral youth, or your home invaded by a handful of illiterate criminals. Imagine being hijacked by an army of 40 savage youths? … or being ransacked in your home by such a feral army? Welcome to the new age of Total Onslaught by millions of previously disadvantaged children who have now come of age with a total absence of moral or value for life.
The sick irony is, these children grew up in the New South Africa. Mandela’s Children, they are called.
No, its just in psychological denial that Black people can be racist, since that means that they cant blame White people anymore. And have to start addressing the issues of poverty and crime.
Notice how everybody is refusing to use the word “Racism” and is playing word games rather than address the problem.
Which is inter ethnic (different black tribes) and any excuse will do for a fight, example in the uk being:
Try joining the rest of us in an interracial society and find out what its like when you finally stop blaming white people and refusing to use the word “Racism” by Black people and start admitting how different colours can get on against the Govt:
The question is a sick attempt to justify the actions of South Africans.
No further debate is needed. The racist, xenophobic nature of our “holier than though” black population is now out of the closet.
All the previous, isolated events of racism - which drew such protestation from our hand wringing black population, pale in comparison to the atrocities we have just witnessed.
Pakistani, Zimbabwean, Zulu where not spared in this racist outburst — and it was not missed that the perpetrators danced in the streets to the theme song of our soon to be president.
I wonder if he is surprised, he spent months calling the troops to arms with his inflammatory song, so fired up where the troops, they only needed to find an enemy.
South Africans attack refugee Zimbabweans, who have fled atrocities. The same country harbored, rallied and supported these people in their time of need. Almost the entire world made sacrifices to help SA during Apartheid, and harbored it’s refugees.
Where are the voices now — those who had their hands up in the air, screaming shock and surprise at recent acts of Racism by a few white people….where is the condemnation, the shock, the surprise…….??
I have a dream. My dream is to see a truly non-racist South Africa. I once was told that I will witness a true religious revival in my lifetime, and this is becoming a reality. All people of all races collectively worshipping together. The downside is Xenophobia, which is the result of political leaders who do not speak out against all forms of racism. I lay this at the door of all the political leaders since 1910-2008,and they will have to answer for their approval of racism. Because when you do not speak and act out against the wrongs in life you actually give your concent. Somebody must tell the Mbeki’s of this life that the silent approach is the same as giving your approval. The current government has been appointed as custodians and they will have to give account of their racist legislation and attitude, which light the fires of racism. What will stop these senseless barbarians that act out the beliefs of their political leaders? only those that motivated them in the first instance. By leading by example in word and deed, and by telling these barbarians that racism in any form on any level is not accepted. By not doing this, we will ALL reap the whirlwind that will follow this irresponsible actions of the political leaders.
just because the SOUTH AFRICAN gvt has at last said no refugees should be killed,it doesnt mean that it now favors foreign nationals over its own people.this is in deed a silly thought leader.theres no gvt that will forget its own people in favour of refugees.
just like any other gvt in the world, South Africa can accept refugees and treat them in accordance with universal law on the treatment of refugees.
during the apartheid,we had a lot of south africans living all over the world in exile and it should not then come as a surprise that they can have Sudanese,Zimbabwean,Ethopian,Somalian,Palestinian or any other refugees ,hibernating in SA.
Even after the defeat of apartheid,with the new,MANDELA led government in place ,there were still a lot of South Africans scartterd all over the diaspora as remnants.some came back to SA 5 or 10 years later,some are still to come back.and at the moment we have south africans going out to work and live in other countries,eg, NEW Zealand,Australia,UK,USA ETC.its no surprise.do they deserve better treatment than locals in those countries? silly question ,isnt it? these countries actually thrive on foreign Human resourses,a management skill which we are still to learn in the developing world.
i still think this is indeed a silly ,uninformed probably a malicious violence-inciting thought leader.
BY THE WAY ,ANY ONE WHO SPEAKS A BANTU LANGUAGE IS A KWEREKWERE OR MAKWEREKWERE.
Many of the foreigners are, in any case, in the country illegally and remain vulnerable because they have no recourse to the government and law enforcement agencies. The majority of the illegal foreigners survive in the informal sectors. We hero-worship celebrities and sports stars from across our borders — and still sing struggle songs about African stalwarts who fought off colonialism, such as Julius Nyerere, Samora Machel and Augustinho Neto. Yet we do not want their descendants in our backyard. Clearly much public awareness and education still has to happen.The authorities should also deprive these anarchists of their gains. They should broker a solution that will allow the displaced foreigners back to their homes — in Alex or Diepsloot or Atteridgeville — and provide them with protection. To allow South Africans to occupy the homes of the displaced refugees would be to reward the violence
I can just see the English ASBO (Anti-Social Behaviour Order) crowd in Manchester, Birmingham and Newcastle and other low income, low-cost housing and high unemployment areas, thinking: ” well, maybe we should get rid of all the ‘Safricans’ who are taking our jobs and houses here and send them “back home”.
The phenomenon that “they are taking our women” however remains a South African exclusive. A nation that professes this belief so openly or with greater abandon, I have yet to meet.
Do South African men need group couselling to work on their confidence and dating courses on how to be better lovers to their women???
Whilst I agree that violence directed against individuals, based on bigotry and prejudice is deplorable, this talkback is fundamentally off track.
‘The Government’ is not supposed to be supporting anyone, local or foreign.
The function of a government does not include the economic support of its citizens, that’s their job.
If government officials permit ‘persons’ prepared to pay a bribe to jump the queue in the allocation of state benefits, (such as housing) or secure other preferential treatment, that is corruption, not xenophobia.
The aggrieved persons are just as much deprived of their rights whether the queue jumper is another local, a Zimbabwean, or comes from Mars.
This is the irrational basis of prejudice and the tragedy for its victims.
A stitch in time saves nine. Mbeki did not uphold the principle of the democratic vote in Zimbabwe. The result is the collapse of Zimbabwes’ economy thus forcing her peoples into exile. He, being so well educated and enlightened, should have known better and indeed he probably did. The beginning of the result is what you are witnessing now. Just translate what the words ZANU pf and ANC mean and you will find it difficult to separate it from the same meaning as NAZI.Radical nationalism and Xenophobia cannot be separated.
It is a strange coincidence that the violence erupting in Alexandra happens just after Mbeki and Mugabe met up with each other. Could there be a political tactic involved here?
Despite all the public condemnation and outrage, what is happening in South Africa is not a suprise to many of “black foreigners” leaving in this country. Both Mandela and Mbeki governments through their policies have not helped black foreigners be integrated in the south African societies. And this despite the self gratification and lip service of African renaissance proned by Mbeki outside of South Africa.
Just check how long it take a black foreigner to get a work permit, permanent residency or even a refugee status from Home affairs. How many Indians or Caucasians have waited for 5-10 years just to get a permit? Blacks children born in South Africa, from black foreigners are not allowed to have the South African birth certificate. Ask your leaders who lived in Europe or USA about the status of their children born in those countries.As long as the government does not see the needs to integrate law abiding and legal black foreigners into the overall system , I am afraid that anyone will used them as scapegoats for the many of South Africa social ills. Some politicians are saying that it is not “South African to attack black foreigners”. Well, the reality is that along the years, the same politicians have been quiet in condemning policies deemed unfair to black foreigners and this despite condemnations by UN and other Human Rights bodies in the country.
Belle
Good Comment - we are reaping what they have sowed.
Wonder
There were a few thousand, at the most, South Africans in the frontline states in exile - most of them in training CAMPS, not competing for jobs with the locals.We have millions of refugees, which the government pretends are migrant workers, competing with our own people for very scare resources.
New Zealand, Australia, UK, USA take our SKILLIED workers, not our unemployed.
Russ
“Group Counselling” and “Dating Courses” for SA men?
You really made me laugh - what a great idea.
Alex, Diepsloot
Viva! Keep it up. Make our blind, deaf and dumb government LISTEN to the people. But take it out on the government - not the innocent.
Good comment- Wonder, Our country need skilled workers not the foreign immigrants to compete with our unemployed citizens. Our people are the priority to us, we cannt entertain theories that are not helping cutting down on crimes, unemployment, epidemics, corruption,etc.
its a very slippery slope that the people of alexandra and gauteng have embarked on this appetite for violence must be squashed and the excuses for murder and mayhem must never be entertained because today its the foreigners tommorrow its another race or tribe who are supposedly stealing jobs or our women
Alisdair Budd.
Any form of racism is unacceptable and should be dealt with severely. As Brandon pointed out this unfortunately is not the case. Racism is a one way street and can only be inflicted by white on black. But it is not just here, try shouting racism anywhere in the world when the perpetrator is black and the victim is white and see how far you get. Justice may be applied for the particular incident but I doubt if it will be given a racist tag.
I think those people in Alexandra have no brains. How can they kill African living in Africa, this is their home to. The fact that they say these peoples are stilling their job is dumb, when most of them are hired by Europeans (outsiders that are also stealing peoples job).
This explosion of violence is yet another demonstration of the ANC’s failure to govern. Like our lame-duck president, the government departments are virtually non-functional and despite many warnings these departments have not delt with the problem of refugees. We are seeing the logical conclusion of this failure.
As much as we acknowlegde the assistance that our neighbouring countries have lent us, it must be noted that our situations are different. We were not fleeing in search of greener pastures but to draw attention to our plight so we may be able to emancipate ourselves.
This influx of foreigners does nothign to shift the mind sets of employees who seek to transgress the labour legislation by employing those individuals who cannot speak out when their right are violated. As a result our brothers and sisters will continue to suffer as employers opt for cheaper labour.
I am a Zimbabwean living in this country as a legal tax paying citizen. (Not that Alex mobs would care !!)
Even if foreigners were guilty of what they are accused of, South Africans have no right to brutalize fellow human beings.
I believe that the root cause of these riots desperation and poverty and the huge disparity between the rich and the poor. The perpetrators of these acts are ordinary citizens who see no way out of their present demise hence are beginning to lash out at anything.
These acts will not stop even if every person with Zimbabwe ancestry were to leave South Africa.
Non-Black South Africans should look carefully at what is happening and should become part of the solution. The rising wave of desent will not spare them for they are next in line
Jesus once said:
“For behold, the days are coming in which…….. they will begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. ”
If you are a highly qualified professional living in London and you would like to settle and work in South Africa you are faced with a debilitating process to gain residence and work permits. Some would argue that from a global perspective this is pretty standard immigration procedure.
If you are a penniless labourer living in Harare all you need do is cross the border and choose a spot to build a shack. Immigration South African style
In this context Government “support” is the ultimate oxymoron because they have absolutely no idea how to deal with the question of foreigners wishing to live and work in this country. If there is a policy nobody really understands it.
Home Affairs is undoubtedly the worst of a pretty miserable bunch and this is central to answering your question.
“saba” wrote: “Non-Black South Africans should look carefully at what is happening… The rising wave of desent will not spare them for they are next in line.” We are… we are… We are indeed noting very well what is happening. Of course, when the mobs (individuals and gangs have been doing it for years) turn on whites it cannot be called “racism”. “Xenophobia” is also inappropriate. Perhaps “balunguphobia” is the appropriate word. In the case of xenophopia, of course, xenophobic rhetoric is actively discouraged with exclamations of shock and horror. In the media, government, churches and almost everywhere else, in contrast, balunguphobic rhetoric has been the widely applauded norm for years. We should not be surprised that since 1994 more whites have been killed by so-called “criminals” (read: balunguphobic marauders) than in the Anglo-Boer war. Whatever is coming to “non-Black South Africans” has been building up for years, whith the silent or active consent of almost all insitutions in society.
I think that this is the most unfortunate incident today to take place in this country. however, i must say that it has long been coming:
1. the very concept that has mushroomed and has never been countered of calling people “makwerekwere”;
2. the so-called aliens investigations unit and other police outfits that have inordinately targeted people a shde or two darker than Thabo Mbeki/Tito Mboweni (get my drift);
3. the manner that we managed the political votes drumming process through claiming that government “will do this and that for you” instead of teaching “my compatriots that all that we will ever have, we should labour for it”
therefore, for me this is a reflection of the victory of Apartheid. we so hate ourselves, that at the outset of little discomfort we do not target the real causes of our discomfort - markets and the manner that international political-economy is structured. we fail to accept that these foreigners were not given the businesses they are running so succesfully by government, and these are fruits of their own labour.
we are generally lazy, and think that the world wes us something and we therefore must perpetually project ourselves as victims. i am also surprised that these “drivers of foreigners out” are not targeting also the eastern europeans, chinese etc. note that i do not support targeting of any foreign national, but if there was any principle, there should be some clear method.
so now i say Suzan Shabangu should now tell her cops to shoot these xenophobic “bastards”
The government is not supporting foreigners at all, not when Firoz Cachalia joined in singing “Mshini wam” after his address in Alex Sankopano and was also joined by the whole leadeship of the ANC - ruling party. The hooligans who were uncontrollable in that meeting started singing the “famous song” and they joined them. you ask yourself what message are they sending out there/
This is not xenophobia.My undestanding is anything ending with ‘phobia’ is a fear.What South Africans are ‘practising’is called RASCISM since they are attacking along tribal lines too.I am really ashamed and the whole nation should know that if a dozen has one rotten egg they are all rotten.To those who are helping out keep up the good work.We used to point fingers at whites saying they are rascist but burning a man to death is worse than when whites refused to share their toilets with us.SHAME ON YOU.If SA is to ever need HELP please expect HELL.AN EYE FOR AN EYE.
Knowledge is still light, most still need to be enlightened in this ignorant generation. No one is a FOREIGNER, and no one will ever be a FOREIGNER. If ever there is a foreigner then we are all foreigners. Only ignorant and foolish people call ‘others’ foregners. We are all citizens in this world no matter where one is born. We do not choose to be born, neither do we choose to be born in a particular place or family. Therefore, those who THINK they are South Africans and other’s are not, need to be Educated.It is a political statement to call yourself a South African, and no one is born a politician, one choose to be politically correct.Let us teach them…”South African”
i feel that no amount of support is being given to the foreigners at all. this violence that is erupting is the climax of a condition that has brewing for years. South african live like africa (the continent) is separated from South Africa by a great big river. we have this mentality that we as a black people are better than them as a black people. i dont feel that the govt is doing anything really to support foreign africans.
i agree with thte notion that this time should be treated as a state of emergency. as it is now, the violence is spreading across townships, across provinces… what is to be done to stop this? how is it going to be stopped. these could be the very beginning of war-torn south africa. this could be the spark that lights up the fears of civil war. this is all but a revelation of the dark times to come. what happened to ubuntu?
they are these notions of african foreigners taking job and livelihoods from south africans but in all honesty, we are nation of lazy buggers. from congo, nigeria,ghana, liberia and zimbabwe tour fellow africans come here to seek a better life. when they get here it is not all roses but the thorns are better than nothing so, they will take ANY job, they will do ANYTHING. and if they are not offered employement, they will create it. how many talented youths sit around the township drinking beer, smoking zol and doing jack.how many able-bodied strong south african men, do we see doing nothing? have you ever seen a african foreigner begging?
i wish the govt would do something.someone would say something to put sense and logic into our heads. these are our brothers, not our enemies.
The SA government actually caused this whole thing to happen by putting their heads in the sand and saying economic refugees are here to stay and the civilians themselves will have to sort it out (or the famous Mbeki words ‘we have to live with it’ (the problem)). So now the public is sorting out the government’s mess and all of a sudden they are called anarchists?
But of course, the government is always right and the public is always to blame, pity they don’t have model citizens to rule over.
many people are accusing the perpetrators of this phenomenon but i have not read about one who is directly pointing a finger where it is supposed to be pointed.
the issue of foreign nationals and those that are here illegally has long been ignored by the ruling party as they put it lower in their list of national priorities. it was obvious that the issue was slowly brewing into a crisis of epic proportions but the priority was to hold on to power or remove someone from power, which had little impact in terms of National security and foreign investor confidence, not to mention 2010.
what efforts did the government take to control the inflow? nothing. the man on the street is expressing his or her lost confidence in the State and decided to do it the old fashioned way. there are calls now to stop these but rest assured that those calls are going to fuel the situation even worse. there are silent communities with large numbers of these foreigners and they were waiting for something like this. God help our country as it will be engulfed in this vicious circle of violence.
my point is, the government is to blame and not the ones chasing these foreigners away. they were driven to this decision by lack of decisiveness from those they call leaders in government.
i hope President Mugabe will send in the ZDF into Gauteng to defend our people and thus preventing genocide like he did ten years ago in the DRC under the SADC organ on defence and security. we cannot keep allowing the ineffective ANC to show weak leadership, Uhuru gains are at stake here.how can these barbarians be allowed to do this? hate it or love it, the only leader strong enough in Africa to deal with such a situation is President Mugabe, even though he is most probably hearded for retirement and i still have beef with him over Gukurahundi.
@ Russ,
I utterly agree with you when it comes to South African women dating the African Foreigners, its still stigma and a taboo to see a woman dating across her borders and I’m telling you, they become the heathen of our societies and not to mention referred to as strumpets.
What the government does is to oblige the foreigners to come in South Africa illegally; as much as the war is unbearable in their countries they can only enter the country lawfully. We all know that the number of illegal immigrants here are the most of the poorest as the likes of Morgan Tsvangirai were welcomed here for their own safety while his cohorts were the victims of ZANU-PF, which again proves that the elites are more taken care of while the rest suffers at their expense.
The government has lost its power and both sustaining the locals and the foreigners. Again, the media is using the erroneous term when it regards the incident occurring in these townships as xenophobic. These people are brutally attacking South Africans too as a result of slow services offered by our President. We have become the laughing stock of a white nation and as a youth of South Africa I cannot explain how I feel. Embarrassed is a far better word to describe the position I’m in.
This is an improper way to deal with the issues affecting black citizens especially those in the township dwellers. Entirely we need to eradicate the notions we have about commanding the government to listen to us. The most fundamental issue here is lack of employment, slow processes of housing development, lack of funds to issue our people to start their businesses. As I was listening to one of the TV Personality on Morning Live (20th May 2008) he stated that the government cannot always supply us with jobs etc but we need to sustain us as the black society and I was flabbergasted on how the people of Thembisa, Alexander and Attridgeville to do that while most of them are illiterate and not empowered on how to begin what he suggested!
Gosh our wonder how Tatu Rholihlahla Mandela feels about this! The man had done enormous work building new South Africa and today we turning it into Zimbabwe, Rwanda! Tatu Tambo, Tatu Hani, Tatu Slovo, Tatu Sisulu, Tatu Modise, Tatu Luthuli are probably turning in their graves.
Come on Black South Africans lets act as custodian and bring back UBUNTU
Ntombizonke Mehlomakulu on May 20th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
What if …just what if ?? Zimbabwe said the Ndebele population should go back to South Africa-Kwazulu where they originated.
After all they are descendants of Mfecane war refugess.(Shaka Zulu)
This violence is not a solution and should stop.
To quote Minister Dhlamini-Zuma:
“….We have more Swazis in South Africa than in Swaziland, many more Batswana here than in Botswana and more Basotho in South Africa than in Lesotho. …..”
Should these be sent packing as well ??
What about the Dutch…. oops ! sorry i mean Afrikaners.
I cant believe that some ignorant South Africans will still be so heartless as to condone or rejoice in the harming of fellow human beings especially with our history. Are we not suppose to strive for a better more peaceful South Africa? I also believe that in most cases xenophobia equals racism and if you can stand by and say that it doesnt affect you or you dont care, then you are just as guilty. Yet these ignorant heatless souls would expect to be treated very well if they or their loved ones go to other countries. Have you heard about the xenophobic attacks on 2 white South African men in London a few years ago? Although the politics around those stories and what is happening in South Africa now is not entirely the same, one fact remains unchanged - the motive is still xenophobia! What happened to our need to preserve human life irrespective of race, religion or nationality? Violence should NEVER be justified under ANY circumstances.
The spokesperson for the S A Institute of International Affairs said that:
The African Peer Review Mechanism had reported that xenophobia was growing in SA and was a problem. The government denied it.
That outbreaks of xenophobic attacks had broken out in different provinces at the same time on:
8 January 2008, 8 February 2008, 8 March 2008, 8 April 2008 and now in May.
Who thinks this is not orchestrated? Shall we blame the “foreigners” for lack of service delivery? How convenient for the ANC government!
Its in this past week of my life that one is embarrassed of carrying the green ID book that certifies me a South African. Not so long ago we were given refuge and security by a majority of the African nations (it should be noted that they risked attacks from the then SA Regime) and today with a beaconing opportunity to demonstrate the same synopsis of Ubuntu we have become prey to utility by the devil. It is my faith that barricades me from saying that these individuals portraying the intuitions and senses of animals should burn in hell.
Again I am disappointed by the deafening silence of our Government and political gurus. the only time they speak is to absolve themselves, can we please here our elected government protect the heritage of the class of 1976. Can the president concede that quiet diplomacy will not aid with the barbarians tarnishing the image of a true SA. As bishop Sibiya alerted, may we Hear words of divine wisdom from the SACC.
Whatever happens when the curtain closes on this episode it presents an opportunity for RSA to really heal and repent from the injustices of the past. The past week is a lesson to our leaders that a rape victim does not move on with life until she understands that it is not her fault. SA should forgive itself of the past first to heal from it. We should NEVER have a repeat of this drama. Indeed Soul became Paul, so can the oppressors today become the agent of education and transformation tomorrow.
I pray to God to heal our land South Africa. May the stripes of Christ who died for peace in all the earth convict the people who have become agents of the enemy.Makungu Nkuna, Wits University
You can probably guess from my spelling of the name that am one myself, I feel like hiding my head in my shirt as a black person when I read some of the comments here, the best efforts at demonstrating and proving we deserve and can manage freedom are being dragged in the mud by these acts.
I want to say this unfortunately is a black thing,I am a black foreigner and I remember we treat black refugees from other African countries with scorn, disdain and contempt, I still dont understand why,haven travelled to the States you discover that the white Americans are more friendly that fellow black Americans, maybe someone can explain this to me but it seems to be in the nature of the black person to be hostile towards a fellow black that is an outsider…
To answer the question the SA government is image conscious and moving in to protect its brand from the rest of the world, its not particularly interested in the welfare of the black foreigners nor is it taking sides against its citizens, its doing what every responsible government will be expected to do!!
Is this perhaps when the “Liberation first, education later” attitude has come home to roost? There are scores of illiterate, unskilled, unemployed SAfricans out there. They see skilled foreigners taking jobs they would like to be employed in but don’t have the necessary skills.
Saba - I think your point has a lot of merit. It is the huge divide between rich and poor that is at the root of this abject violence and mob mentality. Unfortunately, until that problem is addressed (or at least be seen to be addressed), we can expect a lot more of this from here on in.
If the mobs are launching attacks from the hostels, then close down the hostels. They seem to always be a source of trouble - they cannot be rehabilitated. Close them down.
if this mess cannot be cleaned,we are all heading to an unknown land called Makwerekwereland, a country that belongs to no nation and a nation that cannt be defined by its ethnic groups.Wake up
folks stop this rubbish! come to your senses this is not a sport. It is a shame to our modern world.
i am a Zimbabwean and i have never been to SA and i do not intend to go there ever. But let me make a my point very clear that South Africans have lurched onto something they will regret for the next 3 generations. I was born after the liberation struggle in Zim so the Zim i ever knew was a country of plush we had everything. We used to call Mozambicans- Moscans- Malawians-Mabrandai or Manyasarandi- we used to laugh at Zambians infact any foreigner was loathable by our standards. SA is a all but an immature country yu guys are still to address the socio-economic imbalances in your country yu are still to kick out racism, the land reform needs to be adress. I can only feel pity for yu guys coz yu aint seen anything yet SA is a sitting time bomb just give yourselves another 5 to 10 years and most of yu will be running away from hell in SA to ZIm and elsewhere around the world. IF only you address these structural problems within your society then you can have the right to spit on other people. Because yu are miles from that you are just one sick pitiable society waiting to die of cancer.
South Africans had a negutive approach to this issue they shouldn`t have attached the foreingers, it was total wrong and un acceptable, the are now criminals and these actions should be countered against. However i have a question for over 14years South Africans have hospitalised our fellow Africans so obviously the`ve had enough becaase the influx of our brothers is getting to much, its causing a constraint in our basic and scarce resources which makes life far hactic for the citezens which then leads to great tension and anger as the result of the great competition, back to my question, if we let our brothers floch in SA just because they helped us during apartheid who is going to fight for their freedom in their countries? i`m sure SA doesnt` mind giving them help but if they don`t want to fight for what is rightfully thiers in their countries who`s going to do it for them? T o come to the question of why black foreigners, this is because the competition of resources is highly amongst people of the same status (poor)and for other races there`s only less than 1% of them who are poor, most of them are there ones giving jobs to locals and africans so there`s little or no competition between those two. If i remember very well most of our freedom activists who seeked refuge rather military training and other assistances in African countries came back after apartheid was over, so what`s up with Africans why are their struggles taking centuries, i believe agency within africans is now vital in their countries, anyway SOUTH AFRICANS WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT APPROPRIATE you should find new approaches, LOVE YOU ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS PLS PEACE GUYS PLS.
Some of you may have read the book Millenium by Oxford based historian Felipe Fenandez- Armesto published in 1995.
In the epilougue he makes the following observation …..
“South Africas attempts to grow out of racism will be a heroic failure”.
He goes on to say ….
“South Africa is a bundle of large minorities; the differences between black and white, which are potentially violent enough to justify pessimism about the country’s future, are less disruptive that the divisions between historic communities not defined by colour - especially between Zulu and Xhosa. With the best of intentions, the republic has been given the wrong kind of democratic constitution. Her only viable future is as a federation of cultures, not territories, each with a treasury and traditional institutions of its own, each represented in the legislature and government in proportion, not only to its numbers but also to its importance to the state. As it is, even a small error on the side of centralisation will be seen by some communities as an intolerable threat and will blow the state apart.”
Please read that final sentence again
This was written 13 years ago when everything was all warm and cuddly by a man who makes his living reviewing historical trends. “Some communities” as he calls them have already reached boiling point as evidenced by the black on black violence that has rocked the country.
Xenophobia!Xenophobia!Xenophobia!What is xenophobia? what are you really on about? why are all countries in the globe having passports and visas ? May be something is wrong with the way I think. Why cannt people just travel to America , United Kingdom, Australia, Japan, France,German,China, you name it, without being bordered by this pierce of rubbish papers in their possesion. Are all these counties suffering from this disease, you call xenophobia? if that is the case it must be a universe problem than South african problem ,that the United Nation Organisation need to put up as the priority on their agenda for debate.I believe whoever designed this book called passport, suffered from this fever, pity enough ,all countries in the world adopted it for the reason not clear to me, than xenophobia. This is not racial nor ethnic but sounds like territoriarism to me, when I look at it. It has got nothing to do with level of education, skin colour or creed. But everyone just like to host some one in his/her house with permit.Pitty enough so many lives have been lost out of this neglegence. Govt. deserve a blame for failing to control the country borders for so long,for forcing ideas that people has to learn, like it or not to live with the daily influxithus compromising their basic needs.
For soft approach to our neighbours, poor democratic structures,under the shield of silent deplomacy versus dictatorship which is a form of christianity without faith.
We did nt help our neighbours with this kind of thinking, neither they help themselves by running away from their country, instead of solving their problems. People here have lost faith and took law into their own hands because govt. has failed them, pity enough innocent people caught the dust. Tangible help and long term solution ,we can give to our neighbours is support to correct the wrongs in their country and make their environment suitable for them to live in. We cannt sympathise by overcrowding our country, because that will not solve their problems nor our people”s problems.
There are many sympathetic ideas from other people but they do nt form part of a solution.
Look at the statistics of HIV AND Aids in this country that the govt. has failed to tackle and to which they have long been denying with porous borders. They have no policy to do medical checks on the influx to control the epidemic nor treatment to give to people, but they talk about prevention, what prevention against thousands of influx on daily bases? What favour are you doing to your citizens and people who voted you in power? Is it the kind of democracy you promice, democracy without control, people going in and out as they please. When you are silence being a leader, what is that suppose to mean to people that you are leading? In the present of escalating crimes, rapes, corruption, unemployment,you name it, and silence?
The country needs a diolog about this , we cannt keep silence with this. This is our country, our people, our home and we cannt run away from it, we will die here if it costs us to that price. We should give examples to our neighbours, like our leader , Honourable Madiba, he fought here, suffered here, and concquered here, he never ran away . He earned support from our neighouring countries but he never ran away! He is a hero.
Where did this topic come from? This is how certain South Africans try to instigate violence against foreigners. The govt cannot be supporing foreigners, they are just plain inept in controlling your borders and implementing a sound refugee policy. If it had been South Africans who had found themselves in the situation Zimbabweans are in now, they would have moved en masse to the neighbouring countries. So, continuing to imagine that this problem would not have arised if only the Zimbabweans had stayed in their country is just plain stupid.
Your govt caused this problem by allowing migrants to invade the space and lives of the poor of your country. Now the cities of South Africa have become the Killing Fields mainly of citizens from the rest of black Africa. You seem to have a mini-genocide beginning to take shape, and yet you have the gall to ask whether the govt is supporting foreigners at the expense of citizens?
If this killing continues, soon enough the rest of Africa may try to isolate South Africa once again. And this time it will not be the whites, but the blacks. And given the seriousness of what is taking place, who might say other Africans may not start attacking South Africans in there own countries. We can only pray that this does not happen, as the majority of South Africans are decent people and those who travel are not responsible for the mini-genocide starting to take shape. The responsibility lies squarely with your political leadership. Even a stupid person would know that if you put so many poor migrants in a city they would either take the jobs of locals or commit crime to survive. Only children will not know that.
With regard to the main question: of course not. The government is condemning behaviour that is inhumane and unacceptable. Have we forgotten the basics… That all people are equal? Especially in our country with our history! I think the problems are complicated, so I will generalise when I say that this violence is in tune with the cycle of oppression. Young black males (they are clearly not men)are to this day still oppressed. They are not sufficiently skilled and cannot find work. This is demoralising and they take out their frustrations on subodinates (women, children, foreigners). Violent crimes are alarmingly high and unfortunately it takes these xenophobic attacks to make the point clear. The value of life has decreased dramatically with poverty and HIV. These kids don’t have the moral fabric and support of community that should give value to their lives and the lives of those they thrash out violently upon.
Enough said, all these things seem pretty obvious. The victims need to be protected, the violent youths need to be restrained and punished, and government needs to end the cycle of oppression more vigourously!
Regarding the former comments… Shut up with all this racism talk - it’s deeper, and worse than that. It’s clear that we as humans will always divide ourselves along some difference and grouping, let it be. DO NOT let oppression and exploitation be!
I think there are many reasons behind these attacks, and what ever they are, and to what ever extent our government has been involved in creating this crisis is not the immediate task at hand.
What we can only do at this moment in time is reactionary, and to try and voice our condemnation - en masse,immediately.
We need to talk and get involved, and we need to do it, not only for the immigrants and South African’s being persecuted, but for the South African’s perpetrating the violence and unrest.
Maybe we need a crisis, to realise that South Africa is in crisis, and to step down from our ebony and ivory towers and discard our attitude of ignoring and abandoning our country around us.
There are two Marches happening in Johannesburg on Saturday, both starting at 9:00 am. One starting at Constitutional Hill, the other at Pieter Roos Park Cnr Empire and Queen.
Lets get together for this, and let us not stop and Xenophobic attacks, but continue to help the very South Africans frustrated.
Make placards, tell the government something has to be done and something has to change. We need social services & security, we need border control, we need education & infrastructure… we don’t need slow moving fat-cat politicians.
I’m a Bangladeshi national, and have an interest to read selective foreign newspapers, amongst them are the Mail and Guardian. During our Liberation War in 1971, in the face of barbaric assualt of the Pakistani armed forces on our people, 10 million fled to West Bengal (India) for shelter and food. Indians, in general, supported us then at that time, and gave us shelter and food. That oviously put pressure on the locals, but they din’t act as xenophobic, a term used to mean dislike of foreigners. Later India divised a plan how they could offload the refugee issue, and helped Bangladesh driving out the Pakistani military. There could be many other interpretations possible, but my point is that the recent influx of the Zim refugee to the SA has some certain reason, and the principal one is humanitarian. They’re starving, no food to buy and eat. The Economist wrote last Friday that the Zim inflation moved as high as 355,000%, and a bread costs 200 million Z$! But does anyone recall any move recently explaining exact reasons behind this absurd inflation? I don’t. I do recall however reading many stories just describing the horrors there and blaming them all on Mugabe, but no real analysis. I wonder why Western powers, which are falling over themselves in trying to help our closest neighbour Nargis-hit Myanmar, are not worried about plight of helpless folks in Zimbabwe. I’m sure Western hearts would start bleeding for Zimbabwe once Mugabe is gone and some pro-Western puppet becomes the ruler.
What the reports suggests, one can’t buy anything in Zimbabwe now. Who has been able to earn his salary in foreign currency, can buying monthly groceries in neighbouring countries such as South Africa. Nobody has money in Zimbabwe, and nobody outside of Zimbabwe is doing enough to help them out. So, for their part, there is reason when many South Africans view their Zimbabwean neighbours as a menace. The flood of Zimbabweans has taken away their jobs, higher price of food on Zimbabwean buying sprees. It’s because of this crisis. So, the South Africans anger turns into fury, and they’ve started a fight against the Zimbabweans. There’s no way the South African police can outnumber the South African public, so to stop the xenophobia, one need to not only be reactive, but also need proactive work of talking with community leaders about their concerns. But the problem is, very few top leaders usually live in the communities where the violence takes place, so they have little credibility. This is another part of the problem, as reported, that the communities increasingly are not paying attention to their political leaders. Let us hope for the best.
I am becoming quite hesitant about coming down there for the 2010 World Cup. How do I know the blood thirsty hounds wont decide they dont like foreigners then. You may risk having the venue changed for security reasons. The response by security forces is quite slow and inadequate. I’m sorry but this isnt doing your tourism industry any good. Deal with it!!!!
What is there not to understand? Here are a few more questions.
With only 4 million taxpayers out of 55 million and 50% unemployment, how can this country be expected to support another 3 or 4 million foreigners, more than the entire white population and taxpaying population?
Taxation for white business owners already exceeds 100%, how can we be expected to support our neighbours as well?
If a person votes certain politicians into power why must they have the option of running away when those politicians do the predictable thing? Why are they not expected to stay in their country and reap the whirlwind which they have sown? Again Mugabe has been given a lifeline simply because almost 50 % of Zimbabweans voted for him YET ANOTHER TIME, whilst we have almost 3 million Zimbabwean which now have to be supported by the SA citizen.
Politicians in South Africa are constantly and frantically legislating every white owned asset in South Africa so that they can legitimate the theft of it, ostensibly to give to the “poor” who do not have enough housing, jobs, food, etc. yet the black population is increasing at the rate of 1 million per year. How is the harboring and nationalizing of foreigners going to improve this situation?
Again the dim-witted Politically Correct are meddling with issues which they do not understand, only to bail out when things go wrong – AS THEY WILL.
One of the issues that is prone to sensationalism is the number of Zimbabweans who are in South Africa (legally and illegaly). The number seems to fluctuate between 2 and 4 million. The difference represents the population of a large city
Does anyone have an accurate number or is it all pure speculation.
How can government even hope to deal with a problem when they have no idea as to how big it is ?…… that is a rhetorical question.
I absolutely lay the blame for this crisis at the feet of Mbeki’s quiet diplomacy.African leaders are there own worst enemies, so constrained by returning favours of the past, that they are inefectual in dealing with any multi-national issues (let alone home grown ones). This problem has been coming for years,xenophobic attacks are not new. why must we always wait for the pot to boil over before we turn off the gas?
I am so conflicted by this issue. On the one hand i understand the reasons for these attacks, even though they are bad ones, and yet i cannot understand why violence is seen as an accurate response.I think its about time people started taking responsibility for their own situations, and stopped blaming foreigners, and yet i am so angry that the government has done nothing to curb the influx of illegal immigrants, rising crime rates (could they get any higher)and poverty.
Unfortunately humanitarian crises in other countries are being placed above the needs and concerns of our own people, and yet as a nation of survivors (which we should start thinking of ourselves as, not as victims)we should do everything in its power to liberate victims of oppressive regimes.
Perhaps this crisis will be a catalyst for serious change regarding, immigration policies, job creation and crime.
I experienced it first hand in Helen Joseph Hospital where I was queing with my gardener to get him on the treatment programme, and a bus full of foreighers arrived and were helped immediately. We had to return another day.
Not just government but business as well. They want poorer people who are prepared to work for even less than our own poor people. As for our government does anyone know anyone who knows what they actually do? Or do they do everything badly and quietly?
As shocking as this wave of violence has apparently been to some, it is naive to suggest that South Africa was a ‘peaceful’ country prior to 12 May 2008 (as much of the international press has indeed suggested). Despite the ’successful’ transition to democracy in the mid 90s, South Africa, in many respects, remains a country in conflict.
Having lived in South Africa for three years — including Soweto, Wentworth (DBN), the Durban City Centre, and Glenwood (DBN) — it seems to me that both the indigent and the working class in South Africa are largely displeased with the way things are going.
I have read that South Africa has more protest actions (per person) than any other nation, excluding China. Also, the problem of violent crime in South Africa (e.g. hijacking, rape, home burglary, robbery, etc) is well documented, and has contributed to many South Africans leaving to create a life elsewhere.
I think it is clear that these ‘xenophobic attacks’ are just another side to this relative deprivation story in South Africa, in which ‘the poors’ have grown tired of waiting for their daily standard of living to improve. If you’re not convinced, I suggest visiting a shack settlement for a few weeks and experiencing firsthand what it’s like to share one water tap with hundreds of other families, to have no service delivery or street lights.
Iam feeling sorry for you,Jay, because you seems to be reasoning with your stomarch whilst reserving your brain.This is a thought leaders colum,is not a greaving colum. You have to read and understand clearly the comment within a blog before you give an answer.
I am of course south african in every respect you can think of. But point number 1. I donnot beleive in violence and I donnt support violent people.
2.I take my time to think about a situation and analyse it, whether it has good or bad consequences.
My comment is 100%relevant to the topic, what is happening to our country now is more linked to the issues, I have already mentioned above, each factor contributed to the other.
So I blame our people who kill other people, but you must also be aware that they are frustated for not to getting their basic needs from their govt.
4.You as well should think positive, if millions of your people stayed home and gave those millions of votes to the right leader your problem would have been solved. I am saying to you , its only your people who can do that, I cant do that for you.
5.Iam a kind of a person who is not intimidated by people who fail to think positive and jump over the use of words stupit,violent or so on.
That is a fact , it would have given you a long term solution , for your own country. Our people are now angry with your influx which has been going on for almost 15 years, mind you there is no war in your country, so you donnt qualify here as refugees.
6.In your support we are blaming our govt. for not helping you to get a proper govt. to look after you . We cannt sympahtise with your people by overlooking citizens problems at your expence.
So get your facts right.
I have friends who deals with Major fuel companies and do maintenance on the petrol stations in our country and Lesotho , Swaziland etc. They cant even get a work permit to fullfill their contractual commitments They cant stay there and they cant own propperty there
Our government allowed this as I have proof of people applying for jobs with my courier company, 3 months in S A now having an RSA ID
This means he can vote, TOY TOY ,demand and request schools, health care , social grants etc
The current regime allowed this so they can push up their numbers at the voting stations when there is an election So half of these so called Nastionals are faceless and dont belong in the system
No wonder that the peopel of SA are getting Fed up with this
The ANC bred a dog that turned out to be a monster now biting its own master.
ITs a pitty that they are not at the forefront Its the people that suffers most that must fight this onslaught.
Where are all those comrades now …. stand up and walk in the township and rally this like you did pre 94 and see if things are OK for you
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I know that South Africa already has its own share of poor and unemployed to worry about, but I can’t help feeling like we would be a lesser nation if we turned people away at the door who desperately need our help. After all, wouldn’t we want them to do the same for us?
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