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	<title>Comments on: Do Zimbabwe&#8217;s election results vindicate SA&#8217;s quiet diplomacy?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/</link>
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		<title>By: Cuthbert Chinji</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-26268</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuthbert Chinji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-26268</guid>
		<description>Zimbabweans have suffered more than enough at the very expense of theier once called liberator! I wonder if they will be people left alive, every day you hear people being beaten up, detained, the list is endless! What have the people of Zimbabwe done to Mugabe to deserve this? Bring in BUSH! He will sort it out everything!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimbabweans have suffered more than enough at the very expense of theier once called liberator! I wonder if they will be people left alive, every day you hear people being beaten up, detained, the list is endless! What have the people of Zimbabwe done to Mugabe to deserve this? Bring in BUSH! He will sort it out everything!</p>
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		<title>By: Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-26130</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-26130</guid>
		<description>Quiet diplomacy has failed dismally - it never stood a chance.  South Africa should have acted decisively in 2000 when the elections were first rigged.  This would have given teeth to the policy of peer review originally proposed by Mbeki - the policy itself was somewhat discredited when Mbeki himself rejected the review that was carried out on South Africa.  By cutting off electricity and oil supplies for example, Mugabe could have been forced to schedule free and fair elections with international oversight.  Instead the country was allowed to run down to the point where there is now systemic decay.  Tractors, trucks, manufacturing plant (the basics required to run an economy) and the like haven&#039;t been maintained for years as there has been no hard currency to purchase spare parts.  It is time for all countries to act against dictators and despots.  Zimbabwe&#039;s neighbours need to be shocked into action.  The West should impose sanctions on Zimbabwe and on any country that breaks these sanctions.  That might bring quick results and also send a message to the dictators of the world that there are some rules that are inviolate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quiet diplomacy has failed dismally &#8211; it never stood a chance.  South Africa should have acted decisively in 2000 when the elections were first rigged.  This would have given teeth to the policy of peer review originally proposed by Mbeki &#8211; the policy itself was somewhat discredited when Mbeki himself rejected the review that was carried out on South Africa.  By cutting off electricity and oil supplies for example, Mugabe could have been forced to schedule free and fair elections with international oversight.  Instead the country was allowed to run down to the point where there is now systemic decay.  Tractors, trucks, manufacturing plant (the basics required to run an economy) and the like haven&#8217;t been maintained for years as there has been no hard currency to purchase spare parts.  It is time for all countries to act against dictators and despots.  Zimbabwe&#8217;s neighbours need to be shocked into action.  The West should impose sanctions on Zimbabwe and on any country that breaks these sanctions.  That might bring quick results and also send a message to the dictators of the world that there are some rules that are inviolate.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-25373</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25373</guid>
		<description>Do I think SA&#039;s quiet diplomacy vindicates the Zim Election results ? My answer is NO, it does not. The whole thing has been a farce from the beginning but the biggest farce is the South African and African standpoint on Zimbabwe. In previous &quot;so called&quot; democratic elections in Zimbabwe the resutlts were out in a matter of days, now, due to the ruling party facing defeat the results are still to be announced even to the point where there has been government inteference to prevent Zims own laws from taking place. The amazing bit is that everyone knew what the results would be even before the elections took place, everyone was talking about a run-off, is this democracy ? No wonder the world does not take Africa seriously.
At the end of the day it is the normal people on the ground that suffer, six years of hell in Zim is a holocaust for the Zim people and Africa and South Africa has saluted itself in a job well done. I wonder if the MDC or other political party was in power and this was happening what the response of South Africa and Africa would have been ?
Once people have been elected in power they tend to forget that ordinary people have elected them to look after their interests and not the interests of the officials themselves. One just has to look at the Rwanda  massacre that occurred over three months, no-one in Africa did anything to stop the massacre of innocent people and this includes other countries worldwide. African politicians(Worldwide included) are a law onto themselves and have their own interest at heart rather than the person on the ground. There are a few African politicians that you can see are trying their best to improve the lives of the people that have elected them.

I need to stop here.

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I think SA&#8217;s quiet diplomacy vindicates the Zim Election results ? My answer is NO, it does not. The whole thing has been a farce from the beginning but the biggest farce is the South African and African standpoint on Zimbabwe. In previous &#8220;so called&#8221; democratic elections in Zimbabwe the resutlts were out in a matter of days, now, due to the ruling party facing defeat the results are still to be announced even to the point where there has been government inteference to prevent Zims own laws from taking place. The amazing bit is that everyone knew what the results would be even before the elections took place, everyone was talking about a run-off, is this democracy ? No wonder the world does not take Africa seriously.<br />
At the end of the day it is the normal people on the ground that suffer, six years of hell in Zim is a holocaust for the Zim people and Africa and South Africa has saluted itself in a job well done. I wonder if the MDC or other political party was in power and this was happening what the response of South Africa and Africa would have been ?<br />
Once people have been elected in power they tend to forget that ordinary people have elected them to look after their interests and not the interests of the officials themselves. One just has to look at the Rwanda  massacre that occurred over three months, no-one in Africa did anything to stop the massacre of innocent people and this includes other countries worldwide. African politicians(Worldwide included) are a law onto themselves and have their own interest at heart rather than the person on the ground. There are a few African politicians that you can see are trying their best to improve the lives of the people that have elected them.</p>
<p>I need to stop here.</p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Hein</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-25327</link>
		<dc:creator>Hein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25327</guid>
		<description>The last I heard is that your friendly uncle Bob,is one of the ten richest man on earth, and that he maried a niece or something of the Mbeki clan. Can this be verified by anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last I heard is that your friendly uncle Bob,is one of the ten richest man on earth, and that he maried a niece or something of the Mbeki clan. Can this be verified by anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: invinoveritas</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-25308</link>
		<dc:creator>invinoveritas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25308</guid>
		<description>For those closet Mugabe supporters who make a show of wringing their hands in despair saying &quot;what can Mbeki do to get rid of Mugabe short of invasion&quot;, I say this..

Mbeki should pick up the phone and say to Mugabe ….

Mbeki: Comrade Robert Gabriel, “it is my solemn duty to inform you of good and bad news.

Mugabe: Comrade Thabo, please give me the bad news first”.

Mbeki: It breaks my heart to tell you this my esteemed elder comrade but, after long and heart-rending consideration, we&#039;ve decided that we can no longer support you with our so-called &quot;quiet diplomacy&quot;.  So unless you step down in the next 3 days we&#039;re going to cut off your free electricity and all our other support, material, diplomatic and moral. 

Mugabe: so tell me the good news..!

Mbeki:  I will send my luxury presidential jet and a fleet of cargo aircraft to ferry you and Grace and as much affirmative shopping as you wish to take with you.   I am afraid you wont be able to take any white farms with you, but don’t worry we have more and better ones here.

Mugabe: Where will I go?  

Mbeki: we have prepared an entire floor of one of Cape Towns finest hotels where you can stay whilst inspecting our portfolio of colonial-style Cape Wine Farms earmarked under our “land restitution” legislation and where we are sure you will spend a happy retirement, knowing your love of white colonialist farms.

Mugabe: What about immunity from all the crimes I am innocent of, but my opponents say I have committed?

Mbeki: Don’t worry comrade we will use our invincible secret weapon to silence your opponents.

Mugabe: And what might that be, brother Thabo?

Mbeki: We will simply accuse them of racism and they will all disappear in shame..!

Mugabe: Hahaha, just testing, so you did learn something from the old liberation dog after all..!

Mbeki: Yes, I learnt everything I know from you my brother comrade, but we are still in the annoying phase of pretending to have a democracy.   We need a few more years to achieve the great things you achieved during your long and auspicious democratic dictatorship.

Mugabe: just remember to always flash your Get out of Jail Free “R” card at your opponents – as Dr Helsing did with his trusty crucifix to Dracula – the racist white devils will melt away in shame and you can do whatever you want…! 

Mbeki:  Brother comrade, you are the inspiration behind my African Renaissance!  Amandla..!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those closet Mugabe supporters who make a show of wringing their hands in despair saying &#8220;what can Mbeki do to get rid of Mugabe short of invasion&#8221;, I say this..</p>
<p>Mbeki should pick up the phone and say to Mugabe ….</p>
<p>Mbeki: Comrade Robert Gabriel, “it is my solemn duty to inform you of good and bad news.</p>
<p>Mugabe: Comrade Thabo, please give me the bad news first”.</p>
<p>Mbeki: It breaks my heart to tell you this my esteemed elder comrade but, after long and heart-rending consideration, we&#8217;ve decided that we can no longer support you with our so-called &#8220;quiet diplomacy&#8221;.  So unless you step down in the next 3 days we&#8217;re going to cut off your free electricity and all our other support, material, diplomatic and moral. </p>
<p>Mugabe: so tell me the good news..!</p>
<p>Mbeki:  I will send my luxury presidential jet and a fleet of cargo aircraft to ferry you and Grace and as much affirmative shopping as you wish to take with you.   I am afraid you wont be able to take any white farms with you, but don’t worry we have more and better ones here.</p>
<p>Mugabe: Where will I go?  </p>
<p>Mbeki: we have prepared an entire floor of one of Cape Towns finest hotels where you can stay whilst inspecting our portfolio of colonial-style Cape Wine Farms earmarked under our “land restitution” legislation and where we are sure you will spend a happy retirement, knowing your love of white colonialist farms.</p>
<p>Mugabe: What about immunity from all the crimes I am innocent of, but my opponents say I have committed?</p>
<p>Mbeki: Don’t worry comrade we will use our invincible secret weapon to silence your opponents.</p>
<p>Mugabe: And what might that be, brother Thabo?</p>
<p>Mbeki: We will simply accuse them of racism and they will all disappear in shame..!</p>
<p>Mugabe: Hahaha, just testing, so you did learn something from the old liberation dog after all..!</p>
<p>Mbeki: Yes, I learnt everything I know from you my brother comrade, but we are still in the annoying phase of pretending to have a democracy.   We need a few more years to achieve the great things you achieved during your long and auspicious democratic dictatorship.</p>
<p>Mugabe: just remember to always flash your Get out of Jail Free “R” card at your opponents – as Dr Helsing did with his trusty crucifix to Dracula – the racist white devils will melt away in shame and you can do whatever you want…! </p>
<p>Mbeki:  Brother comrade, you are the inspiration behind my African Renaissance!  Amandla..!</p>
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		<title>By: Danzo</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-25303</link>
		<dc:creator>Danzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25303</guid>
		<description>Mr Mbeki is the torch bearer for Mugabe,he has not made the situation better either but worse,I think Mr Mbeki will remain in our Zimbabwe political history as a man who destroyed democracy and honest,Only he can think of was to remove Mr Zuma,We hope the new generation will read of your poor judgement and poor analytical skills Mr Mbeki you have baptised dictatorship,kissed the foot of Mugabe,Mugabe makes you a chicken,

Its time in Zimbabwe,democracy has won,zimbabwe need freedom,have voted for Tsvangirai lets give him,Everyone in Zimbabwe liberated it not only war veterans or army commanders,but villagers,without them this war the army commanders talk of is not complete without the Villagers in Murewa,Mutoko,Mt Darwin Chipinge and many other places.The country does not belong to a few selfish indivuduals,Well we only ask for transition in Zimbabwe,respect of the voices of the people,just all Zimbabwe did during the time of Ian Smith,Please Mugabe give MDC the power,They won the elections not Chihuri or Chiwengwa.

Aluta Democracy,read the results announce them,we know Mugabe lost</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Mbeki is the torch bearer for Mugabe,he has not made the situation better either but worse,I think Mr Mbeki will remain in our Zimbabwe political history as a man who destroyed democracy and honest,Only he can think of was to remove Mr Zuma,We hope the new generation will read of your poor judgement and poor analytical skills Mr Mbeki you have baptised dictatorship,kissed the foot of Mugabe,Mugabe makes you a chicken,</p>
<p>Its time in Zimbabwe,democracy has won,zimbabwe need freedom,have voted for Tsvangirai lets give him,Everyone in Zimbabwe liberated it not only war veterans or army commanders,but villagers,without them this war the army commanders talk of is not complete without the Villagers in Murewa,Mutoko,Mt Darwin Chipinge and many other places.The country does not belong to a few selfish indivuduals,Well we only ask for transition in Zimbabwe,respect of the voices of the people,just all Zimbabwe did during the time of Ian Smith,Please Mugabe give MDC the power,They won the elections not Chihuri or Chiwengwa.</p>
<p>Aluta Democracy,read the results announce them,we know Mugabe lost</p>
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		<title>By: brenda</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-2/#comment-25300</link>
		<dc:creator>brenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25300</guid>
		<description>mbeki can not be liable for the situation in zimbabwe... i was in zimbabwe the friday before the elections and the people seemed to be ready to take back their country and i as a 18 year old half zimbabwean i am sick of the blame shifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mbeki can not be liable for the situation in zimbabwe&#8230; i was in zimbabwe the friday before the elections and the people seemed to be ready to take back their country and i as a 18 year old half zimbabwean i am sick of the blame shifting.</p>
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		<title>By: Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-25232</link>
		<dc:creator>Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25232</guid>
		<description>Off course it does not vindicate Mbeki. 

Millions of Zimbabwean voters that would have voted against Mugabe have fled the country and are now sitting in South Africa.

If Mbeki acted earlier it is likely that these voters would still have been in Zimbabwe, the MDC would have won a majority victory and there would not have been a political stand-off now.

It must also be remembered that &quot;quite diplomacy&quot;  is a political correct phrase developed by Mbeki’s spindoctors to cover up the fact that Mbeki has always condoned Mugabe’s actions and that is really too cowardly to act against his relative. 

The latest Act in a long line of discriminery legislation against whites, i.e. the Expropriation Bill, is based on the Zimbabwean model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off course it does not vindicate Mbeki. </p>
<p>Millions of Zimbabwean voters that would have voted against Mugabe have fled the country and are now sitting in South Africa.</p>
<p>If Mbeki acted earlier it is likely that these voters would still have been in Zimbabwe, the MDC would have won a majority victory and there would not have been a political stand-off now.</p>
<p>It must also be remembered that &#8220;quite diplomacy&#8221;  is a political correct phrase developed by Mbeki’s spindoctors to cover up the fact that Mbeki has always condoned Mugabe’s actions and that is really too cowardly to act against his relative. </p>
<p>The latest Act in a long line of discriminery legislation against whites, i.e. the Expropriation Bill, is based on the Zimbabwean model.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-25213</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25213</guid>
		<description>We really have a president who is a fence sitter. I have lost all my respect for Thabo Mbeki - how can someone be so ignorant. I am truly embarassed to have him as a president. There was a time for quiet diplomacy but that time is long gone. &quot;Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction&quot;

I really believe that South Africa must take a more active stance. We all know that this election did not go the way ZANU PF wanted, it is clear that the vote will be rigged in Mugabe&#039;s favour. Mugabe is in a state of denial. 

South Africa prides itself as an champion for human rights yet we allow our neighbours to starve and descend in to chaos. If we leave Mugabe to his own devices, he will suck the remaining blood out of every Zimbabwean. 

Quiet diplomacy will cost us and all of Zimbabwe dearly, now and in the long term. Wake up Mbkei!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We really have a president who is a fence sitter. I have lost all my respect for Thabo Mbeki &#8211; how can someone be so ignorant. I am truly embarassed to have him as a president. There was a time for quiet diplomacy but that time is long gone. &#8220;Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction&#8221;</p>
<p>I really believe that South Africa must take a more active stance. We all know that this election did not go the way ZANU PF wanted, it is clear that the vote will be rigged in Mugabe&#8217;s favour. Mugabe is in a state of denial. </p>
<p>South Africa prides itself as an champion for human rights yet we allow our neighbours to starve and descend in to chaos. If we leave Mugabe to his own devices, he will suck the remaining blood out of every Zimbabwean. </p>
<p>Quiet diplomacy will cost us and all of Zimbabwe dearly, now and in the long term. Wake up Mbkei!!!</p>
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		<title>By: dropkick</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-25202</link>
		<dc:creator>dropkick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/talkback/2008/04/03/do-zimbabwes-election-results-vindicate-sas-quiet-diplomacy/#comment-25202</guid>
		<description>Mugabe needs to go on pension quickly, Mbeki needs to grow some balls, or follow him on pension, and the world should have stepped in and helped some time ago. What a fiasco. All those people who support Mugabe never set foot in Zim in the 80&#039;s and 90&#039;s when it was a more desirable place to live than SA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mugabe needs to go on pension quickly, Mbeki needs to grow some balls, or follow him on pension, and the world should have stepped in and helped some time ago. What a fiasco. All those people who support Mugabe never set foot in Zim in the 80&#8242;s and 90&#8242;s when it was a more desirable place to live than SA.</p>
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