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Without a doubt because you see what SA has been arguing is that the first prize is to get Zimbabweans taking charge of thier destiny. Secondly what needed to happen was for Zim people to create an environment conducive to free expression of preference. Through SA’s assistance the Zims put together rules of the game that delivered an election qualitatively different to any they have had before. The result: polling stations posted results even before the centre could do naything to alter them, no violence at least not on the scale that we have come to expect.
No, what does it help for the MDC to inherit a country which is already in such a big economic crisis. If SA acted earlier things could have been stopped before it got out of hand.
Definitely not. SA/ANC shouldn’t dare take any credit for this! If anything they should hang their heads in shame that it went on this long, leaving those poor zimbos with nothing. They’ve had almost 20 years to get rid of this dictator and failed, they can’t take credit for it now. The zimbos did this on their own after they’d finally had enough!
“More than any other time in history, mankind faces cross roads. One path leads to despair and utter a hopelessness. The other to total extinction.Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly”.
South African presideny should focus on socio economic issues here in South Africa and let Mugabe dictates his country as he done previously.
Ntombizonke Mehlomakulu on April 3rd, 2008 at 4:43 pm
If quiet diplomacy brought about the change of government in Zim (which I do not believe), then now is the time to become vocal and actively support the new government to make Zim a better place for the citizens and become involved together with England ,EU ,America and other donor countries etc.
South Africa will have to be the base
from where relief and assistance can be rendered.
ALBERT(not Einstein)
That is like asking if a fireman should receive a medal after he watches a building burn down, the people inside die a fiery death, but he sprayed down the embers.
Too little, too late. Mbeki’s legacy will be that of a procrastinating fool. His saving grace will be that he successor will be so much more of a baffoon that we will long for the days of mbeki.
Zimbabwe is governed by an executive President
with wide ranging powers.It is clear uncle Bob
is not ready to go,because as President,he is:
1. Head of State
2. Head of Government.
3. Commander Chief of the Defence Forces.
4. Can appoint 22 members to House of Assembly.
5. Can appoint 6 Senate members.
So to me it looks he is not going to depart quietly
and give it all up witout a fight.
Mbeki’s quiet diplomacy in Zimbabwe cannot have a positive impact on a senseless regime like that of Mugabe. The rest of the world wonders why African leaders cannot afford to call a spade its name when some of their colleagues misrule. They all keep mute because they are all the same in their political orietation. They see themselves as monarchs or kings who die in office before a successor could be contemplated. Democracy is alien to them all. Obasanjo worked assiduously, behind the scene, to have an unconstitutional third term in Nigeria. Mbeki’s quiet diplomacy was prepostrous and meaningless. It had no reasonable effect on all the mess that Papa Mugabe, the liberator, did to become the oppressor of his people, he professed to love. The man has destroyed his legacy and history will say so without bias.
Of course it did. Choosing leaders for other people is detrimental not only to them, but to our own country. Look at america as a prime example. They can’t get out of iraq, and military spending during a war is too high a cost. But hey, maybe i’m wrong.
I’m still wondering what all those who disagree with quiet diplomacy would have had our government do instead. Can somebody please clarify what the other options were and how exactly they would have helped?
How many people have starved to death, been jailed and murdered for their political beliefs during the so called “quiet diplomacy”?
The election results have nothing to do with Mbeki - did he tell the people to go and vote, guarantee their safety, promise no vote rigging?
The election is the result of the Zimbabwe people having had enough and in desperation risked their lives and homes to vote. If Mugabe is eventually charged for crimes against humanity, Mbeki should stand beside him in court.
While taking rash action - demanded by many - would have been a big mistake, “quiet diplomacy” is an obvious euphemism for doing nothing.
Yes the Zimbabwean people did it for themselves, as they should. But they had no help from South Africa.
The SADC governments could not admit any weakness by a fellow liberation party. You support your liberators, right or wrong was their message.
On the other hand, since Smith got to live untouched in Zimbabwe after all his brutality, it’s only fair that Mugabe should be retired in peace - given that he actually contributed so much before going off the rails.
Mbeki Dr denial. 3 million Zimbabweans living in SA who could not vote in the elections. Surely he could have done something to allow them to vote, but as usual he denied they even existed, maybe he thinks they are in SA on Holiday! Read the article in the article on MG ‘If Mugabe is still there, I am not going home’
If there had been quiet diplomacy during the time of apartheid in South Africa where would we be today? This government has been indirectly complicit in the suffering of the Zimbabwean people. Mugabe like other dictators of his ilk are just as appalling as the regimes before them and if the truth be told, sometimes worse. Why do we have a body like the AU if we want quiet diplomacy?
Based on what I see on tv and read in the papers, Bob hasn’t given up yet, he’s still arresting journos and warning army generals not to meed with Mr T. I think Mbeki is waiting to see which way it’ll swing before he doesn’t venture an opinion or comment on the matter again.
The International Criminal Court in The Hague has confirmed that if Robert Mugabe is ousted from power in Zimbabwe, it will seek to try him for “sustained and brutal” crimes against fashion. According to an ICC spokesman, it was time that Mr Mugabe “faced the music for conducting a brutal thirty-year campaign of sartorial terrorism.”
Absolutely not. “Quiet Diplomacy” is an oxymoron - like cottonwool beatings. It never has worked. Has not worked in this case and never will work. Anyone who has read Malcolm Gradwell’s “The Tipping Point” can tell you that. So can everyone in Soc.Anth. 101 - and besides, the fat lady has still not sung.
South Africa and President Mbeki cannot be vindicated by so called quiet diplomacy. The only real question is what is the effective action needed to change conditions in Zimbabwe.How can the renaissance of African values have meaning. How can the AU and Zimbabwes economic partners in Southern Africa not have done anthing effective to handle the plight of the Zimbabwe people. The answer is simple - it’s a lack of adequate leadership. Leadership to come up with effective plans and programs, plans that are big enough and real enough to create a future. President Mugabe is finished , he just hasn’t realized it yet. The current election isn’t the real issue. The correct plan and initiative would mobilize the Zimbabwean people and it’s neighbours if it was right regionally, and if this was so, President Mugabe would be irrelevant in the equation.
The only idea that I can imagine is big enough is to run a huge canal through the length of Africa and thereby open up landlocked countries to direct international trade and communications. Millions of labourers could be employed , massive co-operation would be needed. Low cost flow of goods and people, the development of hydroelectric power, construction and utilization of desalination plants, new communities. Something along these lines particularly with global climate changes could help Africa become a major supplier to the breadbasket needs of the world.
A very strong leader that is unafraid of being unpopular, that has the courage vision to see a liveable future that is regionally relevant is needed. One hopes that the current President of the ANC is such a person. President Mugabe clearly has not been. A plan such as this would bring the Zimbabwean people to demanding their inclusion in the action. President Mugabe would either have to go along with it or be run over in the rush.
No chance! Uncle Bob is just busy looking for his Alfred Naujocks to get the Canned Goods for his own Gleiwitz incident. Too bad everyone is showing such maturity that it wont happen by itself. Quiet diplomacy is so quiet nobody seems to have heard of it!
I believe the SA’s quiet diplomacy had worked so far in that there was an improved free of choice by the people of Zimbabwe witnessed by the election results posted on the polling stations and no violence. People were able to wear their emblem of the faction they support without any fear. War does not solve problems but makes it worse. I believe Zimbabweans are capable of overcoming the current political crisis without going to war. Even though we have to wait for the run-off, i believe the Zimbabweans will still vote freely and chose the person they want with no fear. Come Zimbabwe, we are almost there. We have suffered enough and together we can rebuild our nations amicably.
Its still early days. Bob’s still in charge. Lets see what happens if there is a run off. According to all of the “experts” the opposition with the support of the minority parties would walk it. I am not convinced, Bob’s style is to trample over everyone who stands in his way and he will probably mobilise the security forces to manipulate the run off vote. If this happens then the quiet diplomacy supporters can hang their heads in shame.
Without SA (=ANC) support for Mugabe, the miltary junta that now rules that country would have been out of work in 2002. Someone said ‘what else could we do?’ Well, we could have NOT rubberstamped that election. It was rotten with fraud and all credible observers said so. To keep bob on his throne - plainly destroying the country - the SADC cheerfully urinated on democracy and their own credibility, hurting Zimbabwe, their own people and Africa. Without recognition the Mugabe regime would have been forced to cave very rapidly. We could have also demanded cash payment for services - lessening the hardship on our own people, and forcing bob into a corner earlier, with less ancillary damage to the country’s infrastructure. We could have registered and provided for refugees We SHOULD have! As resistered refugees they could all claim UN support in getting a vote - which could not be intimidated nor rigged. The ANC behaved just like those who supported Apartheid and allowed it to survive. Either that was no shame or the ANC is just as culpable. I’m with the latter position.
Mugabe will cling to power now. SA will continue with tacit support of its old buddy. The death, hardship and deprivation of Zimbabwe’s people will continue.
I think Pres.Mbeki is handling the Zimbabwe political crisis with class and dignity. Unfortunately he got also to deal with foreign media that are conspiring to stir up chaos and disorder in Zimbabwe.Objective negotiations is what is much needed now to get want we all want in Zimbabwe. As for now, negotiations has to be fair, effective and safe for all parties to take part. The commitment of both the ZANU and MDC is much anticpated now, and if a grandeur resolution is reached there will be no re-run at all. SA is doing well to keep the situation under controll.Sandle!
South Africa’s quiet diplomacy has not helped. It prolonged the suffering of the people of Zimbabwe by at least 10 years. It allowed Mugabe the time to pillage and rape the country at will. Mugabe is living in luxury while his people are starving. The fact that South Africa(Mbeki)did nothing about the situation means that as a nation we condoned what Mugabe was doing.
ABSOLUTELY NOT! This constant ‘pussy’footing’ around Mugabe is only to make the ANC seem like dignified politicians. The people are never allowed to speak as long as a crony is in power. When will they have the guts to speak out about the crimes to humanity carried out by Zanu-PF. Watch out South Africa - we’re not too far from the same thing.
Perhaps while bashating (bash-debating, that splendid bit of SA culture that passes for discussion) Bob, Mbeki and anyone who doesn’t bash Bob and/or Mbeki, bashers might focus a little more attention on the saviour of Zimbabwe, Mr. T, or more accurately, what’s behind Mr.T. A very small effort will reveal that the same folks that brought you such cheerful summer box-office hits (er…booms) as Joe Savimbi and the MPLA, not to mention Renamo, are now warming the sheets in Mr T’s salon. Yes folks, its the ciA Team, posing as the NED.
Seriouthly, folkth, which hand do you choose in a Hobsons choice? And if you think Bob’s a bad guy, well, you should check out the wreckage where the NED/CIA have been (The Balkans, Georgia, Ukraine, The Great Lakes Region etc etc).
Being anti-bob don’t spell pro-T.
@alan, who said.. since Smith got to live untouched in Zimbabwe after all his brutality, it’s only fair that Mugabe should be retired in peace - given that he actually contributed so much before going off the rails.
My God Alan, why did you ruin an otherwise very sensible post with such incredibly foolish parting remarks..?
Let me guess – fearing that you might be labeled as a racist for criticizing a black “liberation hero” you try to “balance” your anti-Mugabism with your truly astonishing claim that “he contributed so much”. Studiously ignoring his earlier criminal career – admittedly largely unreported, swept under the carpet by the same foolhardy “liberal” dupes who supported him against Smith - you happily absolve the sadistic brute of his better-publicised more recent criminal rule. You then proceed to further absolve him by implying that his 28 year long reign of terror was no worse (and perhaps a lot better?) than Ian Smiths, whom you casually slander as “brutal”, on the “evidence” presumably of the widely disseminated leftist lie that white colonial rule was invariably brutal. Unless you can present good evidence of Smith’s “brutality” then this is a pathetic piece of intellectual cowardice on your part and if you have a shred of moral courage then you should retract this slanderous lie unequivocally.
Ian Smith may have led a white minority govt for 15yrs but I have never heard anyone, aside from the usual radical leftist rabble suspects, ever accuse him or his government of “brutality”. That he stoically defended the country he was born in and loved and with his outnumbered Rhodesian forces, a large % of them black, successfully fought off cowardly sneak attacks by an enemy specializing in torture and sadistic mutilation of black “collaborators” (ie, Smith supporters). All this while being subjected to incredibly fierce sanctions and a furious siege led by a self-righteous band of white super-hypocrites, the same who 20 years on - belatedly realizing they had supported a devil in disguise - “tut-tutted” that he must “have gone off the rails” because “he was a nice man when he needed our support”.
Smiths courageously defiant defence of Rhodesia no more makes him or his government “brutal” than does Winston Churchills similarly defiant defence of Britain in WW2. Except that Britain had far greater resources and the ultimate ally (USA) and Churchill ordered and condoned the wholesale bombing of german civilians, resulting in the deaths of 500,000 non-combatants. And yet Churchill is a hero for doing so. Why? Because Churchills victims were all white..! I promise you that is the only difference..!
Smithy showed incredible and foolhardy courage by remaining in Zim without any police protection for many years after he left politics. God only knows why he did. He would even answer his own front door, something which quite clearly amazed several of his erstwhile opponents – white “liberal” reporters - who periodically would knock on his door so they could engage in the usual cowardly liberal self-righteous slandering and cruel satirizing of this rather “dour” and “humourless” old colonial “leftover”.
To ascribe Smiths survival to any forgiving streak on Mugabe’s part is a mistake made by many liberal appeasers of Mugabe’s regime, clearly an evil one from the outset - have you forgotten the 20-30,000 killed by his North Korean trained thugs in Matabeleland in 1981? So please forget the nonsense that he only “went off the rails” later. Even in recent years with Smithy in his frail 80’s and keeping well out of politics, Mugabe publicly made bloodthirsty bullying threats against him like “I could have had his head at any time and I still might do so”, or very similar words to that effect.
A final point I wish to make is a very important one and yet strangely nobody has ever given him an ounce of credit for it. Ian Smith ruled one of Africa’s most prosperous countries for 15 years and, had he acted in traditional African big-man fashion, he would surely have had more than sufficient means to retire in safety with billions of loot to a luxury villa on the French Riviera, as many other African heads of state (all of whom misruled and looted their countries and murdered their opponents) have done, even those from tiny tin-pot slum states, which Rhodesia most assuredly was not. And yet he chose to retire to an apparently very ordinary suburban house and farm and lived a quiet and simple retirement, but always with Mugabe’s threats and demented anti-white and anti-Smith rants hanging over his head. For all the opportunity he must have had – commissions/bribes on arms deals, at the very least, - he most clearly was not a wealthy man either during his rule when he would ride a bike to work, or in his retirement. I would say without a shred of fear of contradiction that such a modest leader was totally unique in Africa’s post-colonial history.
So Alan, et Al (excuse the pun) please stop disseminating the incessant lies and distortions of the left and give this courageous man some credit – he certainly deserves it more than any other African leader, and that most definitely includes the over-hyped multi-millionaire Mandela.
Mbeki got the electoral laws in Zim changed. Uncle Bob was no longer allowed to appoint members to parliment and the Senate and the polling stations had to count votes and post the results. He could not have achieved that any othe way.
However, back in 2002 if he had not recognised those flawed elections, he could have got the same changes back then. Maybe he learned from that mistake.
Now of course if Bob does not vacate office - what will the SA government do?
The policies of the South African Government may only claim to have helped to remove this barbaric dictator when he is gone, and at the moment it looks as if he is not going to go. Now is the time for the SA politicians to stand up and be counted and to enforce the election results and ensure that “Uncle Bob” goes on his way into history.
Masantase wrote that foreign media are conspiring to stir up chaos in Zim. and he or she says that Mbeki is handling the crisis well.
How can Africa go forward with people like this ?
They are so poorly educated, and reading that gutter press daily, cannot ever learn the truth, and see reality. Such people vote for Mugabe and Zuma. And they believe they are doing the right thing !
Many people of the USA are similar - those right wingers believe that it is correct and just to go and war in Iraq.
SADC and Mbeki have done nothing except exacerbate the tragedy that is unfolding in Zimbabwe. Nine days after the election with no results on the presidential poll, Mbeki says things are under control and SADC as usual are mute. Zimbabweans have clearly made their choice under difficult circumstances and yet African bodies, AU et al are still dithering and waiting for a bloodbath to happen. I am sick and tired of Mbeki/RSA playing the Godfather. We fought a war of liberation & by God we will get rid of BOB if only Thabo & co would stop meddling & stop distorting what’s goin on in Zim. Mbeki’s mediation track record elsehwere on this continent is proof enough that he is not cut out for the Job. Some one needs to check what it is he smokes on those pipes of his dammit!
President Mbeki has handled the matter like a Head of State should,respect other countries and letting them own up.The MDC leader was vocal as saying”Thank you South Africa”.So far the elections have been peacfiful,opposition could campaign throughout the country without wny hindrance.
loyalties to past freedom fighters is in order if the “freedom president” is loyal to his subjects,
Mbeki has got the wrong end of the barrel here and for a man of his intelligence??????????????
I am a Zimbabwean staying in Harare who has braved Mugabe’s bad policies. South Africa’s quite diplomacy can not be vindicated by this election where about 40% of the population voted. People stayed away from the polling stations because they thought, and rightly so, that Mugabe would always have his way iregardless of how you vote. Mugabe said it all in Bulawayo…”if you vote for the MDC you are wasting your vote. Tsvangirayi will never rule this country, never ever…” If that could be called electioneering, his security dogs backed him up. Today, they are sitting on presidential election results where the MDC clearly won. Where is mbeki and his so called quete diplomacy? What effect would this have on us, the few Zimbabweans who voted against Mugabe? Mugabe was one of the many international leaders who spoke out strongly against P.W. Botha’s dictatorship. Why should Mbeki not speak out against Mugabe’s dictatorship. No, these elections do not in any way vindicate South Africa’s quete diplomacy. That diplomacy has betrayed the people of Zimbabwe who sheltered South Africans during apatheid.
It really makes me angry that Zimbabweans are being screwed from every possible direction, and not only by their leaders: While Mbeki’s ignores their pleas for help, it seems to me that the majority of South Africans are not too keen to help out these poor souls either.
Maybe we should all remember that not too long ago, barely two decades back in time, those South Africans fighting for our freedom were very well received across the border. Not only by the authorities, but also by the people. It is therefore time for us to even our bill with the Zimbabweans people. By helping them, for a change. That counts for us, but also for Mbeki who classifies the situation as manageable.
What a joke. What is manageable about an inflation of 165.000%? Or about journalists being jailed, kicked out of the country, or injured in their cells? About 23 farms being raided? About supporters of the opposition being severely assaulted in the town of Gweru? About people crossing the border, just to buy food for their families? Now WHAT IS MANAGEABLE ABOUT THAT?
Frankly, Mbeki should pull his head from his behind and look at the situation the way it is - not the way he would like it to be.
The South African or President Mbeki’s intervention in the mess that is Zimbebwe today due to the mad actions of one man, has had some effect albeit small. All the changes noted on the last election of which the Presidential results Mugabe is sitting on are as a result of those efforts. However the mad Mugabe saw that Mbeki is going too far and decided to push him aside and declared uniliteral the date of the elections. This backfired on him because the people voted the opposition enmass. Seeing that he has lost the election, Mugabe pulled one out of the hat, for he lacks no tricks, by sitting on the results just to see if he can get away with it. Now the world has hesitated a lot and he has gained his strength and will never get out of that chair alive. Soon after the maximum days of anauncing the results has expired, it was time to demand that Mugabe plays by the rules. This chance has been missed and the world must forget now and again it is the people of Zimbabwe who are going to suffer at the hands of the dictator. Who is naive to say that Zanu-PF has won this election? Had they won, the result should have been long annaunced to the world with much fanfare ala Mugabe style.
One thing I find very strange from the South African public, especially black people is that they have bought into Mugabe’s propaganda that the enemy is Brittain and the USA. This is perpetuated by columist like Vho Khathu Mamaila, learned men who are supposed to inform the public objectively. They is a lot of hogwash I read many a week by the afore said man, clearly showing bias towards Mugabe. This thing is not about black versus white? It is wrong versus good. Now on which side do you stand? It clearly shows that whites every where in the world have clearly distinguished themselves by choosing good over evil, and by doing so black people have taken their well worn path of its them( whites) versus us Blacks. As long as whites support a particular course, we have now made it our business to oppose whether it is right or wrong without advancing any merits. But the above is not a true reflection of the whole truth, there are a lot of prencipled Black commentators who are calling a spade a spade, and many for that matter. Even ordinary people in the streets of many towns and rural ereas in South Africa do agree that what Mugabe is and has done is ruining the country. But thjis does not negate my earlier statement about black peole’s stance versus whites. Lets stop seeing things in black and white to build a multi-racial society. They is so much goodwill towards South Africa the World over and I can say this opportunity is being lost through some unwise decision by the acyions of this present government in South Africa.
Zimbabwe ia actually unfortunate in the sense that the name Zimbabwe means ” house of stones’ ruins” that is a direct translation from Shona. Now remember this in Sepedi ” Betso lebi ke seromo” meaning ‘the bad name literally follows you’. But looking at the whole broader picture, Zimbabweans are to blame largely for the situation they find themselves in today. They played Tribal politics for a long time not realising that they are creating the ‘Einstein Monster’. Had they choosen leaders on their cappabilities long before, this situation should not have arisen in the first place. Looking at the same scenario in comparison to South Africa, ANC delagetes in Polokwane rejected the same path and instead choose a diffirent route, although it is debatable whether they chose the best leader of what was available. The jury is out there but the alternative was worse as can be seen by Mbeki’s largely failures in Zimbabwe although there are some successes. But Zuma has not been tester on his leadership qualities nexcept what people are saying because of his brushies with the law. Again, some of the things he is accused of having commited pale in what is being revealed on the Brittish and Deutscher invastigations of the Armies deal and the scampering by the Highest Office in the land to stiffle those invastigation. Again the jury is still out there.
I must admit Thabo Mbeki is a shame to South Africa, at this darkest hour in the history of Zimbabwe he reckons the ’situation is managable’. What on earth does this mean. Do the lives or millions of Zimbabwians mean anything to Mr. Mbeki, I guess not. In my opnion he is an accomplice to what about to happen in Zimbabwe. What I fail to understand is that Thabo Mbeki is talking about a run-off election, there is no such thing, unless the results of the presidential election has been made available to him. Instead of urging all parties involved to ensure that the results be declared, he’s talking about a run-off. Is he not interest in knowing what the results are, probably not as his HERO is about to leave office.
It is rather sad that Mbeki will go down in history as the South African leader who has betrayed Zimbabwe, all in the name of ‘quite diplomacy’.
It is most unfortunate that Mbeki has seen fit to treat Zimbabwe as a guinea pig for his diplomacy experiment. It’s very easy to take the “holier than thou” and flippant attitude taken by Mbeki when you are overseer of Africa’s largest economy. SA is virtually on auto pilot and it doesn’t matter how irrational Mbeki can be the country can withstand the damage - Zimbabwe on the other hand can’t!
With regards the Zimbabwe situation in particular, it’s been an embarassment to have Mbeki representing South Africa as its president. Both he, his fellow ANC cronies and the other African leaders have consistently backed Mugabe, while the tyrant trampled and committed almost every human rights abuse in the book. And why? Say what they want, the truth is that they’ll always stick up for a Struggle Buddy, no matter what. They’re all still stuck in that time warp of struggle ideology, language and thought processes. Morgan isn’t, so he’s not part of the Club and is an outsider.
These elections will, I fear, still prove nothing. Because even though the Zim people have by large shown they want Mugabe and ZANU-PF gone, it’s been blatantly clear that Mugabe has been forcing the ZEC to stall results long enough to give him a chance to manipulate things to keep him in power once more.
To not see the crookery, the thuggery and manipulation on the part of Mugabe and ZANU-PF in this election is to admit that you are either stupid beyond belief, or are a bare-faced liar. Mbekie and his lot can choose which they’d rather be seen as. But I doubt they’re bothered in any case - we are after all led by people who have shown with the Scorpions they don’t give a damn for the will of the people.
Although I applaud the fact that violence has not errupted to this point and no blood shed yet, it will also be very important that the WINNER of the presidential election be anounced.
Who is the winner?
Africa and the whole wide world is watching as this man (Mugabe) stealing votes day light.
When are we going to be brave enough to stop this kind of thieves in Africa?
South Africa has the duty to God and man to stop this foolishness.
This is indeed a calling or else we are doomed too.
DAY 10 - and still no results! If this were South Africa would this be acceptable? Absolutely not! However, Zimbabweans are being compelled to accept the inacceptable. Why? Are we any less human? Obviously Thabo Mbeki thinks so. If the SA leadership really wanted to resolve the Zim problem why are they shooting down every opportunity that comes their way. South Africa is the Chairman of the UN Security Council this month, and instead of calling for the immediate announcement of the election results so that Zimbabwe can move forward that opportunity is being scarpered. Someone needs to tell Mbeki that Zimbabwe is not South Africa’s northern province and does not need to be treated like Khutsong!
Please Mr. Mbeki do Zimbabweans a favour, STEP ASIDE, stop fanning the flames, go and attend to your flagging political legacy elsewhere and at someone else’s expense.
Mugabe has staged a silent military coup by by threating and implying military intervention and not not allowing the peoples duly elected President to take over and by not officially releasing the vote results showing that MDC have clearly won the election and Morgan the Presidency by a land slide even in the face of huge rigging and manipulation by Mugabe and Zanu PF . Mugabe and Zanu PF are shocked that even after rigging the vote by 30 % MDC and Morgan have still managed to get 50 % therefor in a faire and uncorrupted election They would have taken at least 80 % of the official Vote. How can Mugabe and Zanu PF be already contesting the results and talking of a run off when they have not been released the results, They are already intimidating their people again and claiming that the vote was unfair and arresting the electoral committee people because they did not cheat enough for Mugabe and Zanu PF. They are taking over white occupied farms again - there are not enough whites left in Zimbabwe to worry about they left with most of the educated uncorroupt non Zanu PF black Zimbabweans.
John C Zimbabwean In Exile on April 9th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Thabo Mbeki’s “quiet diplomacy” is just that - DEAD quiet! (It was born dead).
Meanwhile, Old Bob(ejaan) is still running around like the lunatic that he is and not a word from his buddies in SADC and the AU because they all share the same power-hungry dictatorship mentality.
How do you “ask / convince” people to vote for you with a slogan like “behind the fist” (is the brutality that you will receive if you do not vote for me)?
Here’s a thought: The 3-4 million or so people that have fled Zimbabwe must surely be (mostly) MDC supporters (or at least anti-Mugabe) otherwise why would they have left - seeing it is going so well for the Zanu-PF people?
Now if these people were allowed to vote what would the outcome have been? Even worse for old Bob than what it already is!
Uncle Bob might be a baboon, but he is a old baboon!
Mugabe needs to go on pension quickly, Mbeki needs to grow some balls, or follow him on pension, and the world should have stepped in and helped some time ago. What a fiasco. All those people who support Mugabe never set foot in Zim in the 80’s and 90’s when it was a more desirable place to live than SA.
We really have a president who is a fence sitter. I have lost all my respect for Thabo Mbeki - how can someone be so ignorant. I am truly embarassed to have him as a president. There was a time for quiet diplomacy but that time is long gone. “Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction”
I really believe that South Africa must take a more active stance. We all know that this election did not go the way ZANU PF wanted, it is clear that the vote will be rigged in Mugabe’s favour. Mugabe is in a state of denial.
South Africa prides itself as an champion for human rights yet we allow our neighbours to starve and descend in to chaos. If we leave Mugabe to his own devices, he will suck the remaining blood out of every Zimbabwean.
Quiet diplomacy will cost us and all of Zimbabwe dearly, now and in the long term. Wake up Mbkei!!!
Millions of Zimbabwean voters that would have voted against Mugabe have fled the country and are now sitting in South Africa.
If Mbeki acted earlier it is likely that these voters would still have been in Zimbabwe, the MDC would have won a majority victory and there would not have been a political stand-off now.
It must also be remembered that “quite diplomacy” is a political correct phrase developed by Mbeki’s spindoctors to cover up the fact that Mbeki has always condoned Mugabe’s actions and that is really too cowardly to act against his relative.
The latest Act in a long line of discriminery legislation against whites, i.e. the Expropriation Bill, is based on the Zimbabwean model.
mbeki can not be liable for the situation in zimbabwe… i was in zimbabwe the friday before the elections and the people seemed to be ready to take back their country and i as a 18 year old half zimbabwean i am sick of the blame shifting.
Mr Mbeki is the torch bearer for Mugabe,he has not made the situation better either but worse,I think Mr Mbeki will remain in our Zimbabwe political history as a man who destroyed democracy and honest,Only he can think of was to remove Mr Zuma,We hope the new generation will read of your poor judgement and poor analytical skills Mr Mbeki you have baptised dictatorship,kissed the foot of Mugabe,Mugabe makes you a chicken,
Its time in Zimbabwe,democracy has won,zimbabwe need freedom,have voted for Tsvangirai lets give him,Everyone in Zimbabwe liberated it not only war veterans or army commanders,but villagers,without them this war the army commanders talk of is not complete without the Villagers in Murewa,Mutoko,Mt Darwin Chipinge and many other places.The country does not belong to a few selfish indivuduals,Well we only ask for transition in Zimbabwe,respect of the voices of the people,just all Zimbabwe did during the time of Ian Smith,Please Mugabe give MDC the power,They won the elections not Chihuri or Chiwengwa.
Aluta Democracy,read the results announce them,we know Mugabe lost
For those closet Mugabe supporters who make a show of wringing their hands in despair saying “what can Mbeki do to get rid of Mugabe short of invasion”, I say this..
Mbeki should pick up the phone and say to Mugabe ….
Mbeki: Comrade Robert Gabriel, “it is my solemn duty to inform you of good and bad news.
Mugabe: Comrade Thabo, please give me the bad news first”.
Mbeki: It breaks my heart to tell you this my esteemed elder comrade but, after long and heart-rending consideration, we’ve decided that we can no longer support you with our so-called “quiet diplomacy”. So unless you step down in the next 3 days we’re going to cut off your free electricity and all our other support, material, diplomatic and moral.
Mugabe: so tell me the good news..!
Mbeki: I will send my luxury presidential jet and a fleet of cargo aircraft to ferry you and Grace and as much affirmative shopping as you wish to take with you. I am afraid you wont be able to take any white farms with you, but don’t worry we have more and better ones here.
Mugabe: Where will I go?
Mbeki: we have prepared an entire floor of one of Cape Towns finest hotels where you can stay whilst inspecting our portfolio of colonial-style Cape Wine Farms earmarked under our “land restitution” legislation and where we are sure you will spend a happy retirement, knowing your love of white colonialist farms.
Mugabe: What about immunity from all the crimes I am innocent of, but my opponents say I have committed?
Mbeki: Don’t worry comrade we will use our invincible secret weapon to silence your opponents.
Mugabe: And what might that be, brother Thabo?
Mbeki: We will simply accuse them of racism and they will all disappear in shame..!
Mugabe: Hahaha, just testing, so you did learn something from the old liberation dog after all..!
Mbeki: Yes, I learnt everything I know from you my brother comrade, but we are still in the annoying phase of pretending to have a democracy. We need a few more years to achieve the great things you achieved during your long and auspicious democratic dictatorship.
Mugabe: just remember to always flash your Get out of Jail Free “R” card at your opponents – as Dr Helsing did with his trusty crucifix to Dracula – the racist white devils will melt away in shame and you can do whatever you want…!
Mbeki: Brother comrade, you are the inspiration behind my African Renaissance! Amandla..!
The last I heard is that your friendly uncle Bob,is one of the ten richest man on earth, and that he maried a niece or something of the Mbeki clan. Can this be verified by anyone?
Do I think SA’s quiet diplomacy vindicates the Zim Election results ? My answer is NO, it does not. The whole thing has been a farce from the beginning but the biggest farce is the South African and African standpoint on Zimbabwe. In previous “so called” democratic elections in Zimbabwe the resutlts were out in a matter of days, now, due to the ruling party facing defeat the results are still to be announced even to the point where there has been government inteference to prevent Zims own laws from taking place. The amazing bit is that everyone knew what the results would be even before the elections took place, everyone was talking about a run-off, is this democracy ? No wonder the world does not take Africa seriously.
At the end of the day it is the normal people on the ground that suffer, six years of hell in Zim is a holocaust for the Zim people and Africa and South Africa has saluted itself in a job well done. I wonder if the MDC or other political party was in power and this was happening what the response of South Africa and Africa would have been ?
Once people have been elected in power they tend to forget that ordinary people have elected them to look after their interests and not the interests of the officials themselves. One just has to look at the Rwanda massacre that occurred over three months, no-one in Africa did anything to stop the massacre of innocent people and this includes other countries worldwide. African politicians(Worldwide included) are a law onto themselves and have their own interest at heart rather than the person on the ground. There are a few African politicians that you can see are trying their best to improve the lives of the people that have elected them.
Quiet diplomacy has failed dismally - it never stood a chance. South Africa should have acted decisively in 2000 when the elections were first rigged. This would have given teeth to the policy of peer review originally proposed by Mbeki - the policy itself was somewhat discredited when Mbeki himself rejected the review that was carried out on South Africa. By cutting off electricity and oil supplies for example, Mugabe could have been forced to schedule free and fair elections with international oversight. Instead the country was allowed to run down to the point where there is now systemic decay. Tractors, trucks, manufacturing plant (the basics required to run an economy) and the like haven’t been maintained for years as there has been no hard currency to purchase spare parts. It is time for all countries to act against dictators and despots. Zimbabwe’s neighbours need to be shocked into action. The West should impose sanctions on Zimbabwe and on any country that breaks these sanctions. That might bring quick results and also send a message to the dictators of the world that there are some rules that are inviolate.
Zimbabweans have suffered more than enough at the very expense of theier once called liberator! I wonder if they will be people left alive, every day you hear people being beaten up, detained, the list is endless! What have the people of Zimbabwe done to Mugabe to deserve this? Bring in BUSH! He will sort it out everything!
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Without a doubt because you see what SA has been arguing is that the first prize is to get Zimbabweans taking charge of thier destiny. Secondly what needed to happen was for Zim people to create an environment conducive to free expression of preference. Through SA’s assistance the Zims put together rules of the game that delivered an election qualitatively different to any they have had before. The result: polling stations posted results even before the centre could do naything to alter them, no violence at least not on the scale that we have come to expect.
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