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63 Responses to “If a Mugabe victory is deemed rigged, how should Thabo Mbeki respond?”
Hopefully a lot better that he responded when he rigged the last one! Lets be honest, if he hasn’t found it in himself to be critical of Mugabe already, what is going to change?
Thabo Mbeki should ask for the advice of Desmond Tutu. At least he has the moral fortitude to have been criticising Mugabe as a dictator and African disgrace for years.
The Presidency, along with the Department of Foreign Affairs, should move immediately after such an announcement is made and declare in no uncertain terms that the South African government and people do not consider Mr Mugabe the legitimate, democratically elected President of Zimbabwe and call for other African and World nations to do the same, by tabling and overseeing the passage of resolutions and measures in the African Union and the United Nations Security Council, as well as by using the South African position within regional bodies such as SADC and SACU.
The South African message should be as clear to Zimbabwe as it was to Lesotho in 1998.
Mbeki cannot respond, he is a partner of Mugabe.All the Governments of the region are of the same communist political orientation.They have to support their own. In 2002 a stitch in time would have saved nine, Mbeki is not unintelligent, he could have stopped the rot then. He I’m affraid to say is complicit.
Mbeki is too scared to respond. No one’s told him what his response should be. He ends up wavering and prevaricating so much that in the end no decision is made. He spends so much time second guessing himself, he’s always a day late and a dollar short.
it’s not really a surprise. He’s so scared he’ll make a poor decision, and so worried that he’ll do something that the people won’t like that he’ll end up saying and doing nothing. The fact that this will have the (for him, unintended) effect of being a poor decision and making people dislike him even more seems to have escaped him. Like it has everywhere else. But that’s not his fault. Nothing ever is.
If you don’t say or do anything, you can’t be held accountable for saying or doing something. That’s probably the way he sees it. This guy has drifted through his second term as SA president, not saying or doing much of anything, except spending lots of time outside SA.
There won’t be any response. Or there’ll be a typically vague Mbeki-ish response, you know, the one which takes the long and winding road which actually goes nowhere and says nothing. He’ll probably quote Shakespeare or someone at some point too.
And he wonders why people call him a lame duck president. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything these days.
The South African observers will declare the election free and fair no matter what transpires. Based on their declaration we all know what our presidents response will be
In 2002 they voted for Morgan - and the situation got worse
In 2005 they voted for Morgan - and the situation got worse
In 2008 a whole lot of strangers descend on them from the rest of the world.
They do not make sure the food is fairly distributed
They do not stop the propaganda.
They do not help Morgan to fly
They do not get the police out of the polling stations.
They stand around “observing” them - as if they were a freak show or animals in a zoo.
What are the people supposed to think? That the strangers are there to see that they vote for Mugabe THIS time?
Thabo has his own worries. Besides his almost myopic view of everything else it’s not really up to him anymore. Of more interest is how the SA mission will view the results.
Mbeki will deny that it was a rigged election. He will come up with some rediculous argument to defend his & the ANC’s point of view. The old freedom parties like the ANC,MPLA, Frelimo,SWAPO etc don’t want to see an opposition take power by the vote. The winds of change are blowing again in Africa and the days of the one party state are numbered and it scares the old guard.
The fact that our President has not done much about our neighbour’s situation as of late epitomises his weakness at confronting challenges head on.To expect that he will respond differently if not similarlly is rather a disillusionment fostered by the possibility of change if not the maintatnance of the status qou ante.Whether or not our President responds, has nothing to do with thr fate of fellow Zimbabeans.
Mbeki has GOT to condemn the Zim government and put pressure on Mugabe to step aside and allow the people’s voices to be heard. I cannot fathom why Africa’s leaders are standing by this madman - is it only because of his laudable past as a freedom fighter? In my country, your past successes are nice, but you MUST continue to produce results if you want your allies to continue to stand by you. C’mon South Africa - stand up and be the leader that Africa needs!
Thabo will just say “we should respect the will of the people of Zimbabwe, we should be careful in saying words such as vote rigging when we have no substantial proof in our hands”, he’ll mention that structures such as SADC, SA observers,Pan African Parliament,AU observers were put in place to ensure that elections are held free & fair. He’s not going to put himself on the face of Mugabe & tell him straight that Broer you won by Cheating, you played foul. That’s what Mbeki is.
He will almost certainly be abroad when the result is announced - probably in London advising some junior government official how to resolve the Middle East crisis.
I wonder if Pres. Mbeki should say anything to apease some governments out there or he should call a spade a spade. In case Morgan Tsvangira don’t win and Simba makoni wins the elections should Mbeki consider the elction free and fair? Say Mugabe wins with a huge margin Mbeki should speak against the will of Zimbabweans? I guess it will be nice for SA to mind its business (corruption and crime) than trying to sellout.
if mugabe rigged the electoin, mbeki is not going to respond necessary because he and mugabe are the best friends in the world. he is going to give SADC a chance to respond, he will also advice SADC not to talk about the rig of election but he will expect them to sat it was free and fair.
I’m very keen to answer this question, since it is very simple, i’ll like to answer it simply. Since i knew comrade Mbeki, i haven’t see his week point, giving comments in particular. So as a result Mbeki would say what should be said pertaining to the issue which will be under discussion. if Mugabe riggs the votes then Mbeki will condemn that kind of immorality.
According to my very own perception to this issues, Mbeki would comment direct to the issue, So if Mugabe could riggs the votes, Mbeki will condemn that kind of immorality.
Mbeki should say nothing and criticize Bush and the West for creating the crisis in Zim. After all, most of Africa’s problems are because of imperialistic, Western policies. It could not be because Mugabe is one of the world’s biggest dictators.
Indeed, Adv. Hlungwane, but just think of Mbeki’s pathetic record in condemning immoral and corrupt government practices! He generally goes for the denial option, condemns and victimises those who speak out, and protects the incompetent, the corrupt, and the dishonest. Just consider his disgusting farce i.r.o. the Dept. of Health., for instance. It takes leaders to make moral decisions. He may be a manager, but he is not even an apology for a leader.
Forgetting Zimbabwe for a minute, 2 things are clear;
1. We have no confidence in Thabo Mbeki to take a strong stand on this (or anything else)
2. We still would prefer him to Zuma, so what does that tell us about Zuma?
Finally……..
to adv.hlungwane msisinyane Themby norman, who says..
I’m very keen to answer this question, since it is very simple, i’ll like to answer it simply. Since i knew comrade Mbeki, i haven’t see his week point, giving comments in particular. So as a result Mbeki would say what should be said pertaining to the issue which will be under discussion. if Mugabe riggs the votes then Mbeki will condemn that kind of immorality.
Does the adv. stand for advocate, because if it does God help our legal profession. I hope you never have to argue on my behalf. This is typical ‘Afro-speak’, lots of words but no actual meaning.
Pray tell, what exactly does “Since i knew comrade Mbeki, i haven’t see his week point, giving comments in particular” mean?
The most sensible thing to do is for the President to recall all the South Africans frm Zimbambwe and ask the last person to close the gate at Beit Bridge finish and klaar. I’m sick and tired of seeing the poeple of Zimbambwe dancing and laughing at Mugabe’s sick jokes in his gatherings.
Masantase on March 29th, 2008 at 8:44 pm, how easy it is to spot a ZANU PF supporter, I guess you live in SA too and in doing so do not live under the oppression that your own countryman do or have you been given a business and a tractor for your vote. Everybody has a sellby date and Mugabe has reached his. The question is not whether Thabo Mbeki will do anything but more importantly what will the rest of the world do if he rigs it again. The we can ask will Thabo do something then…………. Imagine a war breaking out in Zimbabwe and we loose our all important Soccer World cup because of it……….
Does anyone really expect Pres. Mbeki to declare
the Zim vote rigged?It is hard to see Mr Mugabe
accept defeat after he offered farms and tractors for votes !!
Zimbabweans are the ones failing and making a mockery to all people who want to see democracy taking shape in that country. They know what they want, but continue to blind themselves with superstition that engulf them in fear. It doesn’t matter who wins this thing, there is going to be a very serious problem in Zimbabwe, and only Zims can fix it.
Why this delay, Mugabe’s men are busy stuffing extra ballot papers into the boxes to make sure the majority is for Mugabe. The results should have been out by 11.30am Monday. Mbeki should stop petrol flowing to Zim, turn off his power and remove his Ambassadors etc. BUT HE WONT !!!!!!!!!!!
He loves Robert like a brother.
[…] South African readers of the Mail & Guardian Thought Leader blog had this to say on the question of whether Mbeki would comment if the Zimbabwean election was […]
To expect Mbeki to denounce the Zimbabwe election results is to imagine oneself walking on water…Comrade R.G Mugabe is and will always be a comrade to S’Africa and no comrade betrays a fellow comrade lest he ceases being referred to as one!
Mbeki should apologise to Zimbabweans for the suffering he has allowed them to continue enduring.
He should apologise to the world for being the closest ‘leader’ to Mugabe but worrying too much about his own status amongst others Africa leaders.
He should apologise to Africans for allowing Mugabe to continue to perpetuate the perception of African leaders being corrupt despots.
He should apologise to the South African tax payer for having to host a quarter of the Zimbabwean population.
He should apologise for ever mentioning the ‘African Renaissance’ whilst having no intention of showing leadership to bring it about.
He should apologise to all South Africans for the constant source of embarrassment he is to us all.
If Thabo Mbeki were to respond as a man in the African concept of inhlonipo and do so honestly. He would acknowledge that he has himself has had good training - which is training to never do anything bad or wrong. Thats what we all get from our mothers. But doing and living accepted is not effective. It is better to be honest. Thabo Mbeki should realize that generals , admirals and politicians are usually trained not to fight - they have to live acceptible. Mothers don’t like you to fight and they don’t like to let other people fight. So acceptible is to do nothing effective - thats the opposite of inhlonipo. Inhlonipo requires hard things, it’s not easy to take on the burden of all the peoples of Zimbabwe. President Mugabe has always been too busy serving his own interests and proving that everyone is against him to do much for his people. Thabo Mbeki like most people have done what is acceptible - nothing, it’s not their problem etc etc.
To be effective would require some genius, some initiative and some big bright future looking ideas. Consider a massive canal that links Zimbabwe to the sea opening up direct trade and communications. The difficulties of being President of a country are monumental, but they cannot be solved by living accepted they can only be solved by determining and doing what is effective. It is not inhlonipo to abandon people.
to amused reader, I commence to doubt the credibility of your mental capacity, what do you think i should have said , i should have said the rubbish that is teeming in your mind, i juz have commented the way i think, not in your way. I WISH MUGABE COULD TRIUMPH THIS ELECTIONS AND MBEKI COMMENT THE WAY I HAVE SAID. MBEKI WILL SAY WHAT WILL NEED TO BE SAID.
adv Hlungwane norman on April 1st, 2008 at 2:53 pm
TO the AMUSED READER,It seems as if the guy who has commented as the amused reader disguised himself, because he precisely knew that he has nothing to say. one thing for sho! that he must know is that giving comment is not compulsory, you merely give comment if you have something to say. The subject matter was very much apperant so you should have said your comment pertainig to the topic not to raise unessential debates.
President Thabo Mbeki & Mugabe obviously beat the same drum and besides Mugabe is the Protagonist of Zimbabwe for the rest of his living years in this planet.
A brother does his best to lead the country and by the way is there a proof that his winnings were fraudulent? Oops did I miss something…
Ntombizonke Mehlomakulu on April 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
What wishfull thinking to expext an appropriate reaction from President Mbeki. A man who has continuously failed in his mandate as the leader of South Africa. He has never heeded the call from ordinary Zimbabwians and South Africans to intervene in the political tirany that is Robert Mugabe. What makes you think he will do so now? I hope to be proven wrong, but I think not.
If Mbeki was really smart & wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, I think he should do this:
De facto, Zim has not been a true sovereign stste & democracy for 10 years, but a dictatorship run by a clinically mad, murderous tyrant.
SA should therefore feel free to invade and annex Zim in a relatively peaceful coup. (Only Bob & a couple of hundred of his accolytes would need permanently removing -long overdue.)
99% of Zims will support this move & the rest of Africa & those few countries the rest of the world, that have any genuine interest in Africa, will not raise a finger - just open their mouths & jabber for a month or two - (but, for the ‘new’ Mbeki, this will be just water off a duck’s back.)
Then, we guide the Zims to restore our country to its pre- Mugabe glory.
Let’s act like Africa’s last hope & resolve to sort out the mediocrity of post colonial African ‘civilization’.
OH, YAWN)..excuse me, I think I’ve just woken up from a beautiful dream
I dont see why Mbeki would have to respond, I feel the onus is on the SADC, Mbeki has a lot on his plate here in SA and we need him more than ever. Lets save him some headaches and leave him to do what is best for us until next year when wwe hold our own elections.
So much pressure is put on South Africa to be perfect and sort out all of Africa’s problems.The international community sometimes forget we are still a developing country with many of our own problems. We do not have Godly powers. We should help and be more outspoken on condemning Mugabe, but at the same time, Zimbabweans need to also fight for their country themselves.To what point should Thabo Mbeki intervene?,in light of other ‘liberation’ efforts seen with the US and Iraq that have arguably done more bad than good.
Ultimately one country can not resolve anothers civil problems,untill the people of that country are ready to take up the fight themselves.
Hopefully MDC will prevail and Zimbabwe will get back on track. A prosperous Zimbabwe is good for all of southern Africa.With the aid of international and South African support, Zimbabweans need to start taking more responsibility for themselves,go back and help rebulid their country and be their own liberators.
He should he respond? As he usually does for everything - by doing nothing!! I’ve just heard he has “pleaded” with Gordon Brown to “let the situation resolve itself”. As usual, “lets do nothing and see if it works it out by itself”.
I read with interest and some amusement the replies by the various people, some obviously black and others very obviously white, the replies by most of the blacks lead one to believe that in their opinion ‘Mad Bob’ has just got rid of the ‘Imperialists and Colonialists’ who have been running his country into the ground and quite frankly seem to ignore or are too stupid to realize that he has in fact been in charge of Zimbabwe for the past 30 years! and it is in fact thanks to him and his cronies that Zimbabwe is such a basket case. The ‘obviously white’ replies are all in the same vein - that Mbeki is so far up Mugabi’s backside that he can’t see the light of day and personally I also think his eyes and ears are so full of Mugabi’s bull shit that what ever he tells him he’ll believe even though what’s going on in Zimbabwe is patently obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells. So no I too don’t think Mbeki will say squat against his ‘dear comrade bother Bob’.
TB needs to assess his own political career and it would be safe to say that it has had its moments both up and down. It is also safe to say that he is very much at the end of the road for his political career, however great politicians are great because of defining moments and defining acts. TB has not had many of these but here is one begging to be grabbed. The spin-offs for SA are huge too and this is where he can leave a legacy or not…… If 3 million Zim citizens had to return home to rebuild, how many jobs would be created? How much relief would be created on government resources? What effect would it have on crime and I am not for one second saying that all Zims are criminals and if it sounded that way I apoligize sincerely, the rising Zenophobia crimes are becoming a problem though and have the capacity to get worse and draw on valuable crime fighting resources desperately needed elsewhere. What effect would a free Zimbabwe and one that will be on the road to recovery have on the economic and investment outlook of the region let alone SA. I do fear that TB may be to slow to act and another leader from the region may steal his thunder. It is better to fail in acting than to fail to act at all.
I wonder if Mbeki and Mugabe is an “Item”? I’ve never seen such blind loyalty before. He’s own party’s squeezing him out yet his loyalty remains.
Mbeki, WAKE UP!!! You were supposed to be there for us, the publick. Not corrupt, selfish, inefficient and totally immorral characters like the ones whose skirts you’ve been hanging on too… Sorry people, I guess T Mbeki has lost the plot, left the building. listen… only his silence remains.
Diplomacy of any kind means nothing to Mugabe. That is why he is now acting as if there was no election.
Any effort with this abomination is a wasted one, unless he is forcefully removed by military force on behalf of the majority who voted for change. Decent people the world over, and diplomacy, are completely ineffectual against this tyrant.
At last I am able to answer this perplexing
question.By holding hands of course.Anyone
who saw Bob and Thabo walking smiling hand in
hand,demoting Gordon to a mere spot on a global
map and an all is well, no crisis, thank you,
would have reached a similar conclusion.
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Hopefully a lot better that he responded when he rigged the last one! Lets be honest, if he hasn’t found it in himself to be critical of Mugabe already, what is going to change?
Thabo Mbeki should ask for the advice of Desmond Tutu. At least he has the moral fortitude to have been criticising Mugabe as a dictator and African disgrace for years.
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