My mom’s best friend had a really tough year in 2009, and it had nothing to do with the financial crisis. Her husband was dying of cancer. It was a long, slow and painful death; not something anyone should go through, but unfortunately one that many do.
Anyway, on Thursday, after a year of caring for him and watching him waste away, she was told by the doctors that he should be moved into hospice for his last days. That evening this sad, but very healthy and vital lady descended the stairs in their house — and slipped. Gravity carried her down and she landed hard on her head; and the mind that was probably on her husband at the time, was smashed and shut down.
She was rushed to hospital and operated on but the doctors didn’t know how her brain would cope with the surgery or if she would indeed even regain consciousness. She didn’t and, in the meantime, her husband passed. Her two children, after seeing their dad die, went over to the hospital praying for a miracle, but instead were faced with the decision to turn off life support for their mom.
Now does this seem fair to anyone? The religious may say that god has some kind of master plan which we lowly humans can’t understand and that ultimately some good will come from this. Really? Well I just watched the news and today criminals forced some poor 10-year-old girl to watch as they murdered her grandmother. Also today, in Hammanskraal, two girls, aged 14 and 15, were raped while they were, ironically, walking back home from church. What possible good could come from that? And what “all-good” god could possibly justify these tactics to achieve his aims? Even Machiavelli would be shamed.
So I have to conclude that if there is indeed a god then he’s not the kind of good and nice being his adoring fans make him out to be. Probably he’s more like someone who should be on trial for war crimes against humanity. Either way, I guess we’ll all find out one day. Unfortunately that day seems to have arrived rather abruptly and unfairly for my mom’s best friend and her husband. Oh yeah, and for thousands of Haitians.
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56 Responses to “If there is a god, I don’t want to spend eternity with him”
Condolences to them. Maybe the atheists have it right - we’re on our own.
Have you ever wondered why you think these things are so horrible? Why are we appalled at the idea of death and suffering? Where do we get our sense of right and wrong in these areas? No doubt you might assume becuase God does not exist its part of human nature to care. But according to Darwinian thought, survival of the fittest means natural selection. Therefore something like Haiti should be considered a good thing, less peopl, more chance of survival for the rest. And yet we value the sanctity of life, why?
God didn’t kill those girls, men did. Living in a world that doesn’t work (natural disaster, pain, sickness and death) again is not God’s fault, its ours. So, what is your point exactly? You don’t want to live with God? Well, i don’t want to live in a world with the suffering we experience every day, with the maniacs who do the things they do. Turn the finger around before you put God in the dock and answer some questions before making blind assumptions.
You’re wasting your breath mate. The believers have already made up their mind and they will find a way to wiggle out of the conundrum. Most of them have not even heard of the word Theodicy, but they have all the answers, as the comments that will surely follow will reveal.
“The god of the old testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion (p. 51, paperback edition)
Lets assume that what you suggest in your title to be true for a moment. That there is no God. That there is no existence of a higher power unto which we can pin the sorrows of the world.
Unfortunately, still the inhumanities, the macabre, the indifference remains. The only problem now is that we have no scapegoat to blame it upon, and by necessity we must accept that maybe we as humans are responsible for some of this misery that permeates society and grieve our existence.
Really, merely blaming a God for all these miseries is a cheap shot below the belt - I reckon.
The existence of evil, and especially the suffering of ‘innocent’ children is religion’s Achilles heel. There’s simply no good explanation or excuse for it. Believers may mumble something about Working in Mysterious Ways but the suffering is still awful and preventable.
There’s a fly elsewhere in Africa that hs its larvae worms eating children’s eyes from the inside. If a creator was really responsible for that, I wouldn’t like eternity with him either. The truth is that we are all integral part of nature, and nature is by definition random and can seem cruel. Humans are ‘blessed’ as they are the only living beings aware of unnecessary suffering it and capable to do something about it - which is why I’ll choose to swallow a special pill before I go through months/years of disease death agony, and will do my best to help others to do the same if they so wish.
Oh dear… Although I agree with you, having had to watch the most dignified and wise man (my father) succumb to Altzheimers, religion seems to be the one topic one should stay out of in debate. Belief in something/one more powerful just does not seem to go hand in hand with fact, logic or reason. Perhaps its purpose: to cover those areas we do not yet have knowledge of but nevertheless fear, for ex. death. Nevertheless, as said, I do agree and tend to get rather abusive when told: “It’s all part of the plain” or “God has a plan for you”. Really? Thanks but no thanks. The only thing I know for a fact about life is that it definitely is not fair. It is a game of survival with no restart button. S*&t happens. Stop blaming someone else for the stuff-ups. If there is a God, by now he must be thoroughly fedup with listening to 6.7 Billion whines, requests for forgiveness, cries for help and attempts to bribe.
People often blame God for the tragedies that occur. It’s probably because they are in denial about the ‘god’ of this world - Satan. Adam handed his birthright to Satan when he disobeyed God in the garden of Eden. People think Satan is the caricature with horns depicted in drawings and cartoons but if you study your bible you will see that he is the one responsible for the trouble. Jesus said: The great deceiver has come the kill steal and destroy. Don’t put the blame on God. He is a loving Father Who sent His Son to die an agonising death to give us back our birthright which Adam gave to Satan. Accept Him as Saviour and you will begin to learn the truth about good and evil. My heart really aches for you because I too once blamed God for all the mishaps in my life and tragedies that took place around me until I took some time out to learn the truth about who God really is and how much He loves us. Knowing Jesus is not a religion He is a way of life and that is what God wants for all His creation. I pray the peace of God that passes all understanding will be your portion. Mankind has a terrible misconception about who God really is and that is because Satan deceives them into believing that. This is not theology or religion it is the reality.
Do you want some cheese with that whine? Whoever says that if there is a God, he/she needs to be fair, needs to only look at his supposed creations (Mankind) to know that Life/Existence is not fair. stop the whining and just live… enjoy the ride… we are doomed to be worm food before we meet God.
It’s tough when we have to accept responsibility for our own actions; look at our ethics and morality. I share your grief at your friends’ fate.
Believers blame and praise g-d according to the circumstances. Saves them accepting that they are responsible for their actions and nature is just another force in our lives, neither right nor wrong.
…which is exactly why the notion of a “caring” universal entity sounds so ridiculous to Atheists around the globe (and not just from an emotional point of view, but also from a purely practical, logical and materialistic point of view). I sometimes feel like hitting my head against a table until I pass out when I’m constantly faced with the realisation that the policies of government entities and the morals of most of our peers are constantly bombared with bronze age superstition. Doesn’t it make more sense (and bring more comfort) to realize that these horrible and unforseen circumstances are brought about by nothing than pure “bad luck”.
But yeah, it doesn’t make a difference. The religious will just keep throwing nonsensical arguments and explanations your way.
Sorry to hear about your friend, what a horrible set of circumstances.
In the beginning, man created god, and it was in the image of man that man created him (Lyrics from a song by Aqualung).
It is hugely satisfying that the masses of athiests (who are less inclined to un-godly acts) are growing in numbers. Once a critical mass of athiests is realised, then we will begin to enjoy the promised 1000 years of peace on earth.
At least if we admit that “we’re on our own”, David, then we know where to start correcting the problem instead of constantly deferring to an afterlife of eternal bliss, peace and prosperity. Then we admit that we only have one chance, and maybe then we’d start working on it.
But then again, the influence of Marx, Feuerbach and Nietzsche runs strong in this one.
I think humans are stranger than humans think ‘god’ is.
My first thought on reading Stuart’s article was that perhaps at some level of consciousness beyond ‘that mind that was probably thinking of her husband’ when she fell, this woman may have ‘wished’ that she go with her husband. There is nothing evil in either wanting to die with your spouse or another loved one or with simply not having the desire to continue living without them. Sometimes that feeling may run deeper than our conscious minds realise. We don’t know enough about the subtle levels of consciousness to rule out the possibility that deaths such as the death of this woman are not partially by ‘choice’ or at least by preference. If the ‘mind’ is powerful enough to pull back from death and effect an unlikely cure or remission of disease every now and again, why should it not be capable of placing the body in the right circumstances at the right moment to achieve a deeper desire, to join a loved one in death?
I don’t think ‘blame’ is useful in these circumstances. If there is a ‘god’, I doubt that we could understand or justify it’s actions. What we do understand–a bit-is love and it just possibly that the co-incidence of these deaths was the result of a deep love. I would take solace from the idea of the parents being together in whatever mystery lies beyond physical death.
My husband’s sons lost both of their parents in the space of nine days. Both my husband and his ex-wife died from lung cancer. They died just two months after I lost my mother to Alzheimer’s. Three days after my husband died, my best friend’s husband died. Before the end of that year I lost five more family members. I don’t pretend to have any ‘answers’ but I know that most of our pain in life comes from resisting WHAT IS. Why did this happen? Why me? Why loved ones? Such questions have no answers. We extend and intensify the pain of loss by dwelling on how ‘unjust’ such losses are. The assumption that the universe is ‘just’ in human terms is a big assumption without much support from human experience.
What we can feel more confident about is that we share consciousness, a quality we do not understand but like electricity it is something we can observe from its effects. It is invisible yet all around us. Like light. The Hindus have a theory that everything is ‘made’ of light and science is beginning to discover how this may be possible. I found several books by scientists interesting from this perspective.
The Physics of Immortality by F.J. Tipler, Astronomer
The Infinite Book by Dr. J.D. Barrow, Cambridge U., Fellow of the Royal Society.
Life After Life by Dr. R.A. Moody, medical doctor and researcher
Believing in God is healthy offers hope,solace and peace of mind.Many religious organisation exploit the mentality of God for selfish gain.
we know there is no God but people cant just believe in nothing.believing in God is intellectually lazy..
It is when man begins to live like there is no God that it is no longer important to love your neighbour as yourself (the very fact that you feel so much for the suffering of others suggests that you do still live by this maxim- which comes from God’s word)Human life is the equivalent of the life of a fly, kill one,two or three, it makes no difference because after all there is no life hereafter. The very fact that I am so looking forward to a life hereafter is the very reason I still find joy and fullfilment in an otherwise cruel and often brutal life. Take God out of the picture and there is honestly not much left that is of enduring value. Life is thrilling and worthwhile without a doubt!
I think it all depends on what you define as God and how you see his role to be. If his role is to protect everything and everyone and not let anything bad happen, then may be he doesn’t exist. If his role is to just be, and let humans decide their actions and its consequences then may be does exist..
Stuart. There is no ‘god’. But there is eternity of the soul or spirit. Organised religion has it wrong. We have free will and shit happens. But you will eventually go to the ‘other side’ and you will come back if you want. It’s what I and many others believe because there is sufficient proof. Not just faith. There, feel better now?
I find this contradiction the hardest thing to deal with when it comes to religion (especially Christianity). Good christians will often tag a “god willing” to the end of a sentence, expressing their hope that something good will happen. They usually fail to realise how abhorrent that is.
I completely share your resentment of God, Stuart. But more generally, I find it appalling how the religious justify suffering and the slack role of God in preventing suffering, assuming that there is somehow a long-term lesson to be learned, or even blaming mankind for it based the mythological Fall. If God can (sometimes) heal cancer, why is there cancer to begin with?
Ant Carr, I can tell you as a geneticist that there are evolutionary contributions towards altruism over individual survival and selfishness (in the form of group and kin selection) and indeed individuality is not necessarily a logical extension of Darwinism. Just because we are products of evolution is no reason for rejoicing in the forces that promote it - we may as well rejoice in mass extinction which catalyzes evolution like no other.
Personally, I find it far more acceptable that freak accidents are exactly that (accidents), than believing in an invisible coward of a God that merely stands and watches, or even worse commits them himself as divine retribution. An atheistic universe is limited by physical, sometimes unfair laws, yes. But better plain truth than believing in an unverifiable God, that supposedly punishes mankind with Haitian earthquakes (as some have proposed) for man’s alleged bloodline curse, and who eternally condemns those that do not believe in his ontological enigma by rational choice. If there be heaven or hell, I think I would prefer the latter than basking in the “glory” of a veiled
Well, you can not speak of the concept of “crooked” except you had also established the concept of “straight” …. where did your concept of what is expected from a “good” God come from? I’ll argue there has to be good for you to speak of evil, I wonder where that good came from …
God promised that, wherever two or three people gather in His name, He is present as well. Also, that whenever you ask something in His name, ANYTHING AT ALL, it will be granted. So, here’s what to do:
Step 1: Gather one or two friends.
Step 2: Ask Jesus to appear. (Jesus can do this, and has done this before, as describe in the New Testament. He is already there; He must just appear). Fervently believe that He will do so, as He has promised in his book, the contents of which is ever true and will never fail you.
Step 3 : Erm, actually I should have said TWO steps, innit?
I hear you, and I am sorry for your pain. I have also ‘raged against God’ when terrible, cruel things have happened to those I love. I have stood at night in the pouring rain and, assuming he can hear me - even if it is a 1 in a trillion chance - cursed at him for his sheer utter incompetence.If men, as weak and pathetic as we are, can fly to the moon and love others…why …why - can he not change the simplest acts of the most basic things in nature? If a mechanic built a car with all the parts in the wrong places - I would also say - what the f..k is wrong with you? With all your power, why are you so helpless? Nature is just blood and death and copulation - and of all the animals, only man sees the beauty in it. As the rabbi cried to the skies during the Holocaust ‘where are you God?’ And yet those who know better tell me I need to see ‘beyond this world’ and into the mysteries beyond, and not to see the world with human eyes. I hope that one day I will be able to.
I am not going to argue the merits or demerits concerning the existance, or non existance of God with anyone. What they believe is entirely their own business.
What I wonder about, is why those who dont believe in God always have to ‘push’ their view that there isnt a God. If you think there isnt any, no prob. But why try to convince, and disillusion others into becoming hollow like yourself? Because people who believe in nothing are hollow and empty.
The auhor of this article obviously sees this womans suffering and then her death as being unfair.
If you are negative and sceptical you would see this situation as exactly that.
The alternative could be that there is actually a God, who has seen her suffering, while taking care of her sick husband, and in compassion He took her away to be at peace before her husband died, to spare her further emotional trauma.
On the question of why God allows bad things to happen to people, I can only say.
God does not cause suffering, but that man is at fault, for most of societal ills, and then blames God.
I also don’t think God is overly concerned with the human body, as the body is but a mere vessel for the soul, and it is the immortal soul which is important to God. No human can hurt the soul, and the soul will appear in front of God to be judged on the day.
Stuart, I have just recently lost my mum to cancer and gone through the questioning. She was a Christian and even when in greatest pain faced the inevitable with both the desire to live as well as the hope of a better life. I am a Christian and all I can say is that you have more faith than I do
@marius - good quote; everybody should get to know dawkins.
@god’s defenders - he wasn’t blaming god, he was denying his involvement entirely (or questioning it?)
either way, i find it strangely interesting that to most, when we do amazing things it’s god’s work and when we don’t it’s ours. god (and his entourage), to me, seems an awfully cheap means for these people to feel good about themselves.
Ant Carr, we are also a social species, with a conscience. When things are going good, as they are for most of us we become very empathetic. When things are going tough (like for the Haitians) your survival instincts flare up and morals start going down a bit, hence the almost violent struggle to get food.
When it is you or them, you’ll do whatever it takes to make sure it isn’t you.
If there is a god, he doesn’t do anything, his hand can’t be seen in anything. Only nature and the fundamental laws of our universe is evident. He’d be unloving or impotent. My money (and my “soul”) is on god being a figment dreamt up by our creative minds.
Dear Stuart, I firmly believe that that there is a God - an Almighty God who made the whole universe and created us in his spiritual image. From the bible I understand that God created us with a free will, i.e. we can freely choose to serve Him or not (there are consequences though). We can choose every day what we do. We can even choose if we want to love someone or kill them. Of coarse God can prevent any murder, but that means that He has to take the free will of the murderer away. So why is the world full of evil? Look no further than Satan - he is at work every day. Why is there suffering (including cancer) in the world? It is all the consequence of the original sin in the garden of eden (read Genesis). But I say I am a Christian, am I not protected from suffering? I believe that Jesus died for my sins, and as such may soul is saved for eternity. That does not mean that while I walk this earth I am free from the physical suffering and evil of this earth. But I believe, without a doubt, that God IS in control, that He does love everyone, and extends His hand to anyone who seeks Him. If you really do not want to spend eternity with Him, He will even sadly grant you your wish, but that is a path of no return.
In a world that is decending deeper in the mire every day its only fitting to ask these questions. Perhaps the real question is that if God does not do bad things to people, then why does he permit bad things to happen to good people?
The answer lies at the beginning.
If you can recall in the bible, Satan put this question and suggestion to Eve: “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden? … You positively will not die. For God knows that … your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.” (Gen 3:3-5)
So instead of relying on God to decide what is right and wrong, Eve (and later Adam) wanted to decide for themselves what is right and wrong (good and bad). The results are evident now in the world we live in.
So it would seem that the main issue is one of rulership, who should decide what is right and wrong for all. The dire condition of this world as alluded to in your article show then that man is not capable of deciding the rights and wrongs for himself and God has allowed man the time to show this to be true.
Fortunately, this will not continue forever: Rev 21:4 says: “and He will wipe out every tear from their eyes and death will be no more”.
Stuart,
I often think of God as a psychological need, and therefore as good as a reality. Being on the drug called “faith” can be a really effective way of surviving this world and people like those in Haiti need that drug now more than they did before the earthquake.
In 41 years of living on this planet, I have yet to see any evidence of god’s existence.
If god did exist, s/he does not seem to value us all that much considering all the suffering, pain, cruelty etc that goes on in the world.
Well said Judith. The reason that mankind is in such trouble today is because we have ‘outsourced’ our ethics and morals to religious authorities, who operate under the guise of authority from various gods.
Religion inflicts a fatal wound on our innate natural ability to determine right from wrong. It leaves us weak and immature in our ability to form opinions, and it creates the believable illusion that we are not capable of making these decisions ourselves. This weakness is fully exploited by those who perpetuate the myth.
One only needs to observe at how we are conducting ourselves on this planet to observe how weak we have become.
Vesna Goldsworth wrote one of the best narratives on suffering that I have ever read in her memoir ‘Chernobyl Strawberries’ after she got cancer.
“When a major misfortune overtakes us, people sometimes assumes that – if it offers nothing else in return for the anguish – it might bring some kind of deeper spiritual insight. Suffering makes us better people – or so they say – it enables us to exhibit bravery, it makes us stronger, it brings us closer to God. We use such words of comfort because we have difficulty in accepting that suffering may come without any compensation and we create elaborate narratives of redemption around the pointlessness of pain. I can report nothing of this kind. I didn’t learn anything other than just how much pain I can take.”
To believe god exists and that he has a plan for people on Earth, is a figment human imagination to give life meaning.
My faith is not strong enough to be an atheist. Neither a theist. I’m a textbook agnostic.
My Atheist side looks at the world and thinks: there is not even a single shred of evidence for the existence of God, whatever form he/she/it/them may take, there simply cannot be one. Common sense above all precludes the existence of any supreme being
But then I take something as basic as human consciousness, and I start to wonder. I look at the history of the universe and I ask the question, what happened BEFORE the big bang? How is it that there were a gazillion coincidences that lead to intelligent, sentient life? Mathematically, it’s impossible that everything was just perfect for sentient life to exist. There must be some kind of intelligent design.
In a universe that is infinite, the probability of anything happening is 1. Thus yes, mathematically we can be here by pure coincidence. Fine, I buy that: but consciousness? Intelligent thought? Too complex for mere coincidence…
I honestly do not know. I cannot believe in either argument. Neither has all the answers. Both make no sense.
So, how about this whole Mickey Arthur story, huh?
PS: Atheists can be every bit as big a pain in the arse as any given re-born Christian. Get over yourselves. Both of you!
Personally I reject the notion that a world without a god is not worth living. Being good to other creatures within one’s time on Earth should provide one with joy that is enough besides the delusional belief of an afterlife in heaven. Some might argue that people need a belief in a god to be good and to value life, but is this delusion really to the greater good of mankind when the baggage of many established and predominant religions include homophobia, the subversion of good science, warfare in the name of religion, rejection of contraception and repression of women.
Stuart, thank you for your thought-provoking article. There are no bigger reasons behind bad things; they just happen. I have tried making sense of these things, but they are senseless.
All I can do is live fully and try to understand what words like ‘love’, ‘hope’ and ‘faith’ mean to me.
Strong belief in God plus poor education levels have caused global chaos for centuries… and it still continues everytime some fool sets off for the airport dressed in explosives etc…
God knows when will we escape the totally unjustified hatred that religeon has given our terrible planet?
The founder of Christianity died a brutal death on a cross. While hanging there, he cried out with the same hopelessness that Mark Robinson so eloquently expresses above: My God, my God, Why have you forsaken me. Yet he died confidently commending his spirit into the hands of his God.
Christianity has therefore never perceived suffering as proof of God’s non-existence, disfavour or indifference. It does not pretend to explain why God tolerates suffering. Suffering remains a horrible mystery (notwithstanding facile explanations involving Satan to which some fundamentalists appeal). Yet Christians believe that ultimately, through the action of a God of Love, something good will happen, as sealed and symbolised by Jesus’ ressurection.
Those of you who are atheists may mock this hope as futile and forlorn. So be it. You are no better informed than I am about what happens after death. You expect me to trade my belief in a loving God, for a belief in a cold universe in which I am simply “incipient compost”. If you could convince me that you are correct, I think that my most rational course of action would be to maximally exploit every situation to my advantage, and if things do not work out, to put a gun to my head. The logic of atheism leads to a “culture of death” in which there would be mass exploitation and mass suicide. Perhaps western secularism is already approaching this situation!
There is no god and never has been. I am a card carrying and born again atheist, but am also a humanist who cares for 570 children! Christianity as Bertrand Russell said is a “preposterous and reprehensible religion” and the less said about islam the better. We are on our own and should care for each other without the damage caused by religions everywhere, Did god take great pleasure in killing 200 000 people in Haiti? She does not exist!
I would rather live believing in God and die findy ing out that I was wrong, than not believing in the one and only living God and then finding out I was wrong.
Why when we kick God out of our school, goverments and lives, then blame Him when things go wrong……
i wish someday i would wake up and the would not be a mention of deity anyone of them. Now that would be a happy day. its just irritating, I seriously do not get why Grown, intelligent people believe in this garbage. I dont get it, everyday you see proof that there is no higher power but you still believe hayi suka man.
@Illuvatar. I followed your link. Peter Kreeft’s ‘explanation’ of evil is a classic Apologetics argument.
“The unbeliever’s problem is not just a soft head but a hard heart. And the good apologist knows how to let the heart lead the head as well as vice versa.”
Any unbeliever knows that the heart is a pump which function is to pump blood through the body. Every single emotion whether it is fear, love, compassion etc is the result of neurons firing as well as chemicals in the human brain.
Kreeft’s argument requires a massive ‘leap of faith’ and provides zero proof for God’s existence.
“Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It’s nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable it are intellectual slave holders, keeping mankind in bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction.” Bill Mayers.
Kreeft being a Catholic cannot even agree with all the other Christians. He converted from on delusion to another! No wonder Christians have difficulty in convincing the unbelievers out there!
For believers: God gave us free will. Rapists use it wrongly.
Human misery is caused by humans with no conscience as to how they make others suffer.
Death is not evil. It’s there. You’d be surprised to realise that your mother’s firend may just have preferred to go at the same time as her husband. It’s lonely being the one left behind.
My grandmother lived until she was 93 and wanted nothing so much than to join all her friends and relatives in death.
“The alternative could be that there is actually a God, who has seen her suffering, while taking care of her sick husband, and in compassion He took her away to be at peace before her husband died, to spare her further emotional trauma.”
Yeah right, in fact god was so compassionate that he took another 100 000 plus lives in Haiti to accompany her to heaven.
Yes, and just to underline his compassion further, he made sure that two kids were raped and that a 10-year-old was forced to watch her parents being murdered.
But you know, this entity who is all powerful and all compassionate, all-seeing and all-knowing, somehow can never defend himself; always relies on grovelling humans to come up with the excuses for his behaviour. The classic case of “do as I say, not as I do.”
Larry Goodfella on February 1st, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Atheism must be a dying concept if it can only manage 1000 years of peace.
If you do not want to spend eternity with god, who’s to say he wants to spend it with you.
The other day I asked an ant what he thought of man. I actually said, human being.
Does not exists, it said.
But, said I, you see him every day, you even crawl all over him. I am a man, too, did you know that?.
Does not exist, it repeated.
I tried again: but sureley you must have an idea…
I have no ideas, I am an ant for pete’s sake.
Me again: What about the nice things I spill all over the place, like sugar grains and dead flies.
I told you, it said: does not exist so don’t bother me with this kind of questioning.
Off it scurried with its fellow ants in search of food. Which I provide fps.
Relative to man, the ant is a giant considering the size of man to the sun, a minor star in a universe
cock-a-block with billions of stars. Yet, the sun rules our lives, no question about it. Sometimes too hot,often quite pleasant. It will still be there millions of years from now, time incomprehensible.
And we question the maker’s intentions.
An ant would be a wise place to start…
@Amanda
I didn’t offer Peter Kreeft’s article as proof of God’s existence - that is an underlying assumption of the article. It is rather an attempt to explain the existence of evil whilst at the same time maintaining a belief in a Good and Benevolent Creator; thus dealing directly with the subject material raised in the TL post above.
You raise some further points in your comment:
1) Peter Kreeft is writing from an apologists point view - there is nothing wrong with that given that we’re all free to present our arguments in an open forum.
2) “heart is a pump which function is to pump blood through the body” as contrasted with Peter Kreeft’s “hard heart” - you employ the classic logical fallacy of Equivocation here.
3) You say that love is an emotion that has it’s origin in the brain - I disagree. Lust perhaps is an emotion that has it’s origin in the brain, but love is a far more complex entity. That, however, is another topic of discussion not belonging squareley in the discussion at hand.
4) You quote Bill Mayers’ stance on the concept of Christian Faith - this again is not a topic that is directly under discussion, therefore to do it justice would require a separate forum of discussion otherwise it just detracts from the current topic.
5) Peter Kreeft is a Catholic - does this mean that it disqualifies him from entering into debate about the existence of evil under a
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Stu Stobbs is Creative Partner at Studio4332.
He started copywriting in advertising in the 90s after a failed drag-queen career. He is co-founder of Studio4332, a new age communications agency that changes consumer behaviour through any medium necessary.
He has won and judged numerous local and international awards but thinks they are a load of money-making, ego-inflating kak - and so keeps entering them. Has an honours degree in dramatic art, loves riding his bike, patting his dogs and cooking with his supermodel girlfriend - not necessarily in that order.
follow him on twitter @Bigbrownbear
www.studio4332.com
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Condolences to them. Maybe the atheists have it right - we’re on our own.
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