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	<title>Comments on: Gordhan: Trudging along well-worn tracks</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/</link>
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		<title>By: The Creator</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115780</link>
		<dc:creator>The Creator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115780</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a massive problem here. South Africa is in depression. (No, there are no bailouts -- it is hard to see what Lamini means by this, but it probably means that he knows nothing about economics.) As a result there has been a dramatic fall in state revenue. 

The choice is thus simple: massively slash state spending, massively increase taxation, or massively borrow. Gordhan massively borrowed. It was the easier option. 

The problem is that in future he will have to introduce some kind of GEAR strategy, or alternatively, work out some way of sustainably promoting economic growth at a 2003-2007 rate without weakening anything else in the economy. It is unlikely that he can do the latter. Therefore he will be forced to reintroduce a kind of GEAR. (Unfortunately, the longer he delays this, the more severe it will have to be.)

Of course, Lamini has a point. Unemployment is too high, and the distribution of wealth is too unequal. Unfortunately, since he doesn&#039;t understand the issues involve, he has no answers to these. For instance, his reference to &quot;a competitive exchange rate&quot; is nonsensical; the exchange rate is high so that the trade deficit can be kept relatively low, and interest rates high to attract portfolio investment. Calls to crash the rand (often couched as &quot;competitive&quot;) by cutting interest rates would damage both and put us in a deeper hole.

If you don&#039;t know what you&#039;re saying, keep silent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a massive problem here. South Africa is in depression. (No, there are no bailouts &#8212; it is hard to see what Lamini means by this, but it probably means that he knows nothing about economics.) As a result there has been a dramatic fall in state revenue. </p>
<p>The choice is thus simple: massively slash state spending, massively increase taxation, or massively borrow. Gordhan massively borrowed. It was the easier option. </p>
<p>The problem is that in future he will have to introduce some kind of GEAR strategy, or alternatively, work out some way of sustainably promoting economic growth at a 2003-2007 rate without weakening anything else in the economy. It is unlikely that he can do the latter. Therefore he will be forced to reintroduce a kind of GEAR. (Unfortunately, the longer he delays this, the more severe it will have to be.)</p>
<p>Of course, Lamini has a point. Unemployment is too high, and the distribution of wealth is too unequal. Unfortunately, since he doesn&#8217;t understand the issues involve, he has no answers to these. For instance, his reference to &#8220;a competitive exchange rate&#8221; is nonsensical; the exchange rate is high so that the trade deficit can be kept relatively low, and interest rates high to attract portfolio investment. Calls to crash the rand (often couched as &#8220;competitive&#8221;) by cutting interest rates would damage both and put us in a deeper hole.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re saying, keep silent.</p>
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		<title>By: Judith</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115683</link>
		<dc:creator>Judith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115683</guid>
		<description>Currently government has put so many obstacles in the way of SMEs, I am amazed we still survive.  We want to train and skill young people, yet we get not assistance, not withstanding we go ahead.  The universities are (apparentyl) ripping off IT students, because the majority of applicants who approach us are unable to pass our tests.

The SETAs are major money collectors, however they are not producing.  I am frustrated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Currently government has put so many obstacles in the way of SMEs, I am amazed we still survive.  We want to train and skill young people, yet we get not assistance, not withstanding we go ahead.  The universities are (apparentyl) ripping off IT students, because the majority of applicants who approach us are unable to pass our tests.</p>
<p>The SETAs are major money collectors, however they are not producing.  I am frustrated!</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Mathray</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115604</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Mathray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115604</guid>
		<description>HI Steven Lamini
You tend to use the term &quot;neoliberalism&quot; like a swear word.Without explaining how Gordhan can improve on the budget you run off at a tangent attacking everything he has programed.The budget seen in the context of what obtains in the Economic world is not far fetched nor does it &quot;flow against the current of present developments in Economics&quot; . Actually on of the areas it targets is &quot;Liberalization of inward foreign direct investment including commitment to unlimited extraction of earnings across foreign borders. &quot; Makes sense does it not.

The problem I have with most commentators who attack &quot;hard working ,clean administrators&quot; is that they are usaully bankcrupt of ideas and energy to drive us forward. These are usually &quot;leeches who draw from the economy for there selfish gratification -quite frankly you should join the ANCYL. They cvan make wealth grow out of nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Steven Lamini<br />
You tend to use the term &#8220;neoliberalism&#8221; like a swear word.Without explaining how Gordhan can improve on the budget you run off at a tangent attacking everything he has programed.The budget seen in the context of what obtains in the Economic world is not far fetched nor does it &#8220;flow against the current of present developments in Economics&#8221; . Actually on of the areas it targets is &#8220;Liberalization of inward foreign direct investment including commitment to unlimited extraction of earnings across foreign borders. &#8221; Makes sense does it not.</p>
<p>The problem I have with most commentators who attack &#8220;hard working ,clean administrators&#8221; is that they are usaully bankcrupt of ideas and energy to drive us forward. These are usually &#8220;leeches who draw from the economy for there selfish gratification -quite frankly you should join the ANCYL. They cvan make wealth grow out of nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Rory Short</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115586</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115586</guid>
		<description>Human beings in general have a natural desire to survive and flourish. There are basically two ways that we put this desire into effect. 

The first and apparently easiest way is where we just take what we want from other people. This takes many forms from straight forward face to face robbery to more subtle theft such as counterfeiting the currency, even reserve banks do this when they allow inflation to happen.

The second and more arduous path is one where we personally create things of value which can be voluntarily exchanged with others for what they have created.

This latter path does not just materialise by itself it has to be created. Each new generation has to be educated and trained up in skills and the social system has to be structured to reward useful effort and disincentivise behaviour that belongs on the first path.

This second path is one which historically we humans have found it very difficult to create and sustain because behaviour that properly belongs on the first path keeps on muddying the water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Human beings in general have a natural desire to survive and flourish. There are basically two ways that we put this desire into effect. </p>
<p>The first and apparently easiest way is where we just take what we want from other people. This takes many forms from straight forward face to face robbery to more subtle theft such as counterfeiting the currency, even reserve banks do this when they allow inflation to happen.</p>
<p>The second and more arduous path is one where we personally create things of value which can be voluntarily exchanged with others for what they have created.</p>
<p>This latter path does not just materialise by itself it has to be created. Each new generation has to be educated and trained up in skills and the social system has to be structured to reward useful effort and disincentivise behaviour that belongs on the first path.</p>
<p>This second path is one which historically we humans have found it very difficult to create and sustain because behaviour that properly belongs on the first path keeps on muddying the water.</p>
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		<title>By: Benzol</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115545</link>
		<dc:creator>Benzol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115545</guid>
		<description>Serious socio-economic change can take place if serious notice was taken of the proposals of &quot;new economics&quot; (www.sane.org.za/).

This has been dismissed by many as &quot;commie&quot; stuff. 

&quot;Free market&quot; is promoted as the solution to all problems. &quot;Free market&quot; is equal to &quot;survival of the fittest&quot; as in nature. A consistent following of this would be to leave the poor to rot and leave the sick and the hungry to die. 

In order to solve socio-economic problems, there is no other way than sharing, sharing and sharing. 

The danger of &quot;making the rich equally poor&quot; in the process is another myth from a previous century. Socio-economics are very different from 100 odd years ago. 

The places where the principles seem to work have a different history and cultural background. That does not mean that the principles of the New Economics cannot work in SA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serious socio-economic change can take place if serious notice was taken of the proposals of &#8220;new economics&#8221; (www.sane.org.za/).</p>
<p>This has been dismissed by many as &#8220;commie&#8221; stuff. </p>
<p>&#8220;Free market&#8221; is promoted as the solution to all problems. &#8220;Free market&#8221; is equal to &#8220;survival of the fittest&#8221; as in nature. A consistent following of this would be to leave the poor to rot and leave the sick and the hungry to die. </p>
<p>In order to solve socio-economic problems, there is no other way than sharing, sharing and sharing. </p>
<p>The danger of &#8220;making the rich equally poor&#8221; in the process is another myth from a previous century. Socio-economics are very different from 100 odd years ago. </p>
<p>The places where the principles seem to work have a different history and cultural background. That does not mean that the principles of the New Economics cannot work in SA.</p>
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		<title>By: X Cepting</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115491</link>
		<dc:creator>X Cepting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/#comment-115491</guid>
		<description>Not to mention the fact that the economic plan ushered in a whole new branch of terrorism: leadership terrorism.  Instead of spreading the pie it became more condenced between the tug of war of existing big business and new political power.  With such lovely landmines planted the ignorant innocent poor&#039;s way as:
- If they can&#039;t afford food, let them grow 
vegetables.  (Erm... without water, soil or seed?)
- The bond rate is not coming down, reposses the houses of those who can&#039;t pay.  (how many lost houses in that deal?)
- The interest rates will stay and we are giving our Chinese hand a free hand at exporting crap cheap products (how many businesses and therefore jobs lost in that one?)
And all blamed on an economic recession that arose because they planted the motherload of all landmines: trading in futures, into the world economic system.  Of course, the perpretrators are still rich, disgustingly so.  I do not see them tightening their belts, yet.

Who are the real &quot;leaders&quot; and who holds them accountable?  This is pretty much what it comes down to.  What is Pravin supposed to do, wave a magic wand?  Lie as well as his predecessor about inflation?  In the end illusions always comes crashing down, and guess who pays the bill?  The law-abiding poor idiot who lives on hope and a dead dream.  Why not?  We can always blame the dead and gone.  Its worked so far...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention the fact that the economic plan ushered in a whole new branch of terrorism: leadership terrorism.  Instead of spreading the pie it became more condenced between the tug of war of existing big business and new political power.  With such lovely landmines planted the ignorant innocent poor&#8217;s way as:<br />
- If they can&#8217;t afford food, let them grow<br />
vegetables.  (Erm&#8230; without water, soil or seed?)<br />
- The bond rate is not coming down, reposses the houses of those who can&#8217;t pay.  (how many lost houses in that deal?)<br />
- The interest rates will stay and we are giving our Chinese hand a free hand at exporting crap cheap products (how many businesses and therefore jobs lost in that one?)<br />
And all blamed on an economic recession that arose because they planted the motherload of all landmines: trading in futures, into the world economic system.  Of course, the perpretrators are still rich, disgustingly so.  I do not see them tightening their belts, yet.</p>
<p>Who are the real &#8220;leaders&#8221; and who holds them accountable?  This is pretty much what it comes down to.  What is Pravin supposed to do, wave a magic wand?  Lie as well as his predecessor about inflation?  In the end illusions always comes crashing down, and guess who pays the bill?  The law-abiding poor idiot who lives on hope and a dead dream.  Why not?  We can always blame the dead and gone.  Its worked so far&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter L</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenlamini/2010/03/11/trudging-along-well-worn-tracks-cursory-comments-on-finance-minister-gordhans-budget-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-115484</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And your solution is what exactly, Stephen?
You imply a desire to see the poor and down and out have a &quot;fairer deal in the economy&quot; and a wish to see a &quot;more just economy&quot;.

Exactly how would you achieve this?

The Bob Mugabe lowest common denominator route, perhaps - make (almost) everyone equally poor desperate and unemployed?

SA has one of the highest proportions of social spending as % GDP in the world (which is not sustainable in the long-term - even Government admits this)- do you want it to be even higher?

Most of the poor and unempoyed lack education and skills - no market economy in the world has large demand for unskilled and under skilled labor, nor ever will have.

So you are not a fan of inflation targeting?
Please ask some friends in Zimbabwe the effects of a government that prints money and does nothing to control inflation (causes it, actually).

The SA response to the credit crunch and recession was far more prudent than that adopted by USA and Britain, which partially explains why our economy has already lifted out of recession (2 consecutive quarters of positive GDP growth) and both the USA and Britain are still mired in recession - deeper and more prolonged than ours.

Have you studies Economics at undergraduate level, let alone post graduate? Please answer.

Poverty alleviation and unemployment reduction to first world levels will take decades with good economic management (infinitum without!) - there are no magic wands to be waved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And your solution is what exactly, Stephen?<br />
You imply a desire to see the poor and down and out have a &#8220;fairer deal in the economy&#8221; and a wish to see a &#8220;more just economy&#8221;.</p>
<p>Exactly how would you achieve this?</p>
<p>The Bob Mugabe lowest common denominator route, perhaps &#8211; make (almost) everyone equally poor desperate and unemployed?</p>
<p>SA has one of the highest proportions of social spending as % GDP in the world (which is not sustainable in the long-term &#8211; even Government admits this)- do you want it to be even higher?</p>
<p>Most of the poor and unempoyed lack education and skills &#8211; no market economy in the world has large demand for unskilled and under skilled labor, nor ever will have.</p>
<p>So you are not a fan of inflation targeting?<br />
Please ask some friends in Zimbabwe the effects of a government that prints money and does nothing to control inflation (causes it, actually).</p>
<p>The SA response to the credit crunch and recession was far more prudent than that adopted by USA and Britain, which partially explains why our economy has already lifted out of recession (2 consecutive quarters of positive GDP growth) and both the USA and Britain are still mired in recession &#8211; deeper and more prolonged than ours.</p>
<p>Have you studies Economics at undergraduate level, let alone post graduate? Please answer.</p>
<p>Poverty alleviation and unemployment reduction to first world levels will take decades with good economic management (infinitum without!) &#8211; there are no magic wands to be waved.</p>
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