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	<title>Comments on: No, dear, that&#8217;s not mob rule &#8212; it&#8217;s called democracy</title>
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		<title>By: Jabu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-10228</link>
		<dc:creator>Jabu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-10228</guid>
		<description>Prof, in my mind the level of inaptitude and incapability to conduct/chair an ANC meeting (National Conference inparticular) by T. Lekota is still arlamingly striking. Is this the kind of a &quot;leader&quot; who was sent to &quot;deal decisively&quot; with another &quot;undemocratic mob from Kgutsong&quot;? I do not wonder why he never succeeded.

I was in the conference (I saw it live), the poor guy&#039;s first attempt was to make the ANC National Conference a Summit of Provinces. How do you explain that +3,600 delegates from Branchs were supposed to be dictated by &quot;super-comrades&quot; from the provinces in what-ever motion coming from the floor to be asserted within the Conference. This is the very same guy who thought that only Limpopo and E. Cape were the provinces within the Conference. Thought to be strategic????, when their National Leadership position was challenged by the foor, he give FOUR (4) &quot;so called Provincial Mandated Delegates&quot; from Limpopo 2 and E. Cape 2 to endorse the conference rules. This was dispite the fact that, there was a counter motion from ANCYL and supported by another &quot;so called mandated provincial delegate&quot; from KZN. It is then that the whole thing got out of his control, surfice to say that Motlante a TRUE ANC LEAD (not a Factionalist Cabal Kingpin) saved his day.

If this nonsensical act is a construct by the &quot;leaders&quot; at the national level of the ANC (Chairperson in particular), how do you expect the delegates to hold their horses. You will be naive enough to believe that, whilst someone that is well-known for his knowledge of ANC procedures fumbles that way and expect thing to be &quot;normal as ever&quot;. Lekota spoiled the 1st Day of the ANC 52nd National Conference and the video footage of that is a living evidence.

But funny enough, the so called model democrates, people of the &quot;high moral esteem&quot; are at the delegates throats as if they were the pepetrators of the whole &quot;most undisciplined showing by an ANC conference&quot; ever. I&#039;m not suprised though, because it is the very same delegates who are believed to be uneducated, headless and backward bunch that has been blinded by a Zuma &quot;magic&quot;. Ignorant minds never sieze to amaze, there&#039;s a say that &quot;The more they build-up their wall fences, the more their eyes are fixed to the clouds. To an extent that they believe they are flying in the sky and worse part, they believe its only by themselves although they never built the walls themselves. This is because with the amount of wealth that the systems fixes to their wallets, they have servants everywhere.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof, in my mind the level of inaptitude and incapability to conduct/chair an ANC meeting (National Conference inparticular) by T. Lekota is still arlamingly striking. Is this the kind of a &#8220;leader&#8221; who was sent to &#8220;deal decisively&#8221; with another &#8220;undemocratic mob from Kgutsong&#8221;? I do not wonder why he never succeeded.</p>
<p>I was in the conference (I saw it live), the poor guy&#8217;s first attempt was to make the ANC National Conference a Summit of Provinces. How do you explain that +3,600 delegates from Branchs were supposed to be dictated by &#8220;super-comrades&#8221; from the provinces in what-ever motion coming from the floor to be asserted within the Conference. This is the very same guy who thought that only Limpopo and E. Cape were the provinces within the Conference. Thought to be strategic????, when their National Leadership position was challenged by the foor, he give FOUR (4) &#8220;so called Provincial Mandated Delegates&#8221; from Limpopo 2 and E. Cape 2 to endorse the conference rules. This was dispite the fact that, there was a counter motion from ANCYL and supported by another &#8220;so called mandated provincial delegate&#8221; from KZN. It is then that the whole thing got out of his control, surfice to say that Motlante a TRUE ANC LEAD (not a Factionalist Cabal Kingpin) saved his day.</p>
<p>If this nonsensical act is a construct by the &#8220;leaders&#8221; at the national level of the ANC (Chairperson in particular), how do you expect the delegates to hold their horses. You will be naive enough to believe that, whilst someone that is well-known for his knowledge of ANC procedures fumbles that way and expect thing to be &#8220;normal as ever&#8221;. Lekota spoiled the 1st Day of the ANC 52nd National Conference and the video footage of that is a living evidence.</p>
<p>But funny enough, the so called model democrates, people of the &#8220;high moral esteem&#8221; are at the delegates throats as if they were the pepetrators of the whole &#8220;most undisciplined showing by an ANC conference&#8221; ever. I&#8217;m not suprised though, because it is the very same delegates who are believed to be uneducated, headless and backward bunch that has been blinded by a Zuma &#8220;magic&#8221;. Ignorant minds never sieze to amaze, there&#8217;s a say that &#8220;The more they build-up their wall fences, the more their eyes are fixed to the clouds. To an extent that they believe they are flying in the sky and worse part, they believe its only by themselves although they never built the walls themselves. This is because with the amount of wealth that the systems fixes to their wallets, they have servants everywhere.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jabu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-10217</link>
		<dc:creator>Jabu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-10217</guid>
		<description>As for those who still see the majority of delegates here at Polokwane as an unruly mob, I invite you to think about a situation in which ‘the mob’ has been in charge for five days but no-one has been hurt and no-one has been prevented from speaking their mind. I wish all mobs were like this.

I may be bloging this late, BUT I CANNOT HELP IT; this was a 100% INPUT. LET THE MOB RULE and the rich and the elite will know that people owe them NOTHING, instead the onus is upon them to join the &quot;PEOPLE&quot; and lobby for a construct of a better society (not a better performing profit at the expense of fellow human being, even if they are BLACK).

LONG LIVE TO THIS MOST REASONING MOB, LONG LIVE. If its a mob that could not harm a fly within a period of 120 Hours (except that it will frustrate an &quot;exceptionally intellegent&quot; grouping of self-centred morons who think they are the &quot;untouchebles&quot;). A progressive and a democratic world realy needs this kind of a mob (not the ARMS DEAL GODFATHERS).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for those who still see the majority of delegates here at Polokwane as an unruly mob, I invite you to think about a situation in which ‘the mob’ has been in charge for five days but no-one has been hurt and no-one has been prevented from speaking their mind. I wish all mobs were like this.</p>
<p>I may be bloging this late, BUT I CANNOT HELP IT; this was a 100% INPUT. LET THE MOB RULE and the rich and the elite will know that people owe them NOTHING, instead the onus is upon them to join the &#8220;PEOPLE&#8221; and lobby for a construct of a better society (not a better performing profit at the expense of fellow human being, even if they are BLACK).</p>
<p>LONG LIVE TO THIS MOST REASONING MOB, LONG LIVE. If its a mob that could not harm a fly within a period of 120 Hours (except that it will frustrate an &#8220;exceptionally intellegent&#8221; grouping of self-centred morons who think they are the &#8220;untouchebles&#8221;). A progressive and a democratic world realy needs this kind of a mob (not the ARMS DEAL GODFATHERS).</p>
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		<title>By: Nzapf</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9765</link>
		<dc:creator>Nzapf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9765</guid>
		<description>Amazing, it seems, that for some in South Africa, the voices, the shouting, the plights for change were first heard in Polokwane! Where were they when Khutsong was burning? When cities and municipalities were trashed? When massive strike was staged in even essential services? The mistake was to dismiss these as acts of barbarism, that would be dealt with by law and order...No. Polokwane is the culmination of all of these. the voices and shouts of mothers fed up with seeing their children go to bed hungry in a country that promissed better life for all after sacrificing so much. For some it was a brother, for others a husband or even a daughter as the TRC revealed. This is no fiction for them, might be good reading material or dinner table talk for the middle class (black and white), removed from it all in the suburbs, but my brothers and sisters, it is real for them and it is time to sober up to their reality. For no amount of labelling will change the course of their revendications, their claims written in sweat and blood. Had i our you been in their shoes, I doubt it would have been different. It is not a white or black thing, for every revolution in the world has been a noisy affair. Remember the French and other revolutions? Heads of nobility rolled under the guillotine! From it came the &quot;republique&quot;, freedom, equality, fraternity! Polokwane saw no blood. Yet. The people&#039;s claim must be settled to avoid the guillotine, blood, history tells us. But, halas, human being are not good in learnig from history, so the same mistakes repeat themselves. 
So South Africa is on a democratic course, indeed, but the outcome of which will be determined not much by the amount of shouting and shoving in conferences but by the attitudes of the haves in the society post-Polokwane. The message has been delivered, loud and clear. Thinking that the message is directed to President Mbeki as an individual is very myopic for he represents in the eyes of the rebelling masses, a system that created the haves and worsened the lot of the have nots, in other words you and I. How will we react to the discomfort of the proposed changes that may avoid bloodshed or if in disareement, forced exile for those who can afford to leave the country? How can we be part of the solution, since the revolution is on our doorstep and there is no turning back? Because it will feed on the Polokwane victory and the next push is likely to be more bolder, much louder, may be even bloodier (God forbid)...Clinging on what we have now, is a sure recipy for losing it all. Sharing and compassion is the only viable option, but it needs personal commitment and sacrifice. Time for the haves to be patriotic and do the right thing, for their children&#039;s and grand children&#039;s sake!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing, it seems, that for some in South Africa, the voices, the shouting, the plights for change were first heard in Polokwane! Where were they when Khutsong was burning? When cities and municipalities were trashed? When massive strike was staged in even essential services? The mistake was to dismiss these as acts of barbarism, that would be dealt with by law and order&#8230;No. Polokwane is the culmination of all of these. the voices and shouts of mothers fed up with seeing their children go to bed hungry in a country that promissed better life for all after sacrificing so much. For some it was a brother, for others a husband or even a daughter as the TRC revealed. This is no fiction for them, might be good reading material or dinner table talk for the middle class (black and white), removed from it all in the suburbs, but my brothers and sisters, it is real for them and it is time to sober up to their reality. For no amount of labelling will change the course of their revendications, their claims written in sweat and blood. Had i our you been in their shoes, I doubt it would have been different. It is not a white or black thing, for every revolution in the world has been a noisy affair. Remember the French and other revolutions? Heads of nobility rolled under the guillotine! From it came the &#8220;republique&#8221;, freedom, equality, fraternity! Polokwane saw no blood. Yet. The people&#8217;s claim must be settled to avoid the guillotine, blood, history tells us. But, halas, human being are not good in learnig from history, so the same mistakes repeat themselves.<br />
So South Africa is on a democratic course, indeed, but the outcome of which will be determined not much by the amount of shouting and shoving in conferences but by the attitudes of the haves in the society post-Polokwane. The message has been delivered, loud and clear. Thinking that the message is directed to President Mbeki as an individual is very myopic for he represents in the eyes of the rebelling masses, a system that created the haves and worsened the lot of the have nots, in other words you and I. How will we react to the discomfort of the proposed changes that may avoid bloodshed or if in disareement, forced exile for those who can afford to leave the country? How can we be part of the solution, since the revolution is on our doorstep and there is no turning back? Because it will feed on the Polokwane victory and the next push is likely to be more bolder, much louder, may be even bloodier (God forbid)&#8230;Clinging on what we have now, is a sure recipy for losing it all. Sharing and compassion is the only viable option, but it needs personal commitment and sacrifice. Time for the haves to be patriotic and do the right thing, for their children&#8217;s and grand children&#8217;s sake!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9552</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9552</guid>
		<description>This comment isnt about Stevens piece because there is really nothing to add to what is a well reasoned and insightful argument. Rather, my sadness is about the negative comments from mostly white respondents who need to find in the ANC Conference signs that confirm their racist prejudices about the inability of black people to rule. It must be indeed incredibly difficult for them to even begin to acknowledge that the ANC has, through all its travails, has managed to avoid the split they were all hoping for. They now cling to the other fantasy that the ascent of Zuma to the Presidency will result in the ultimate destruction of the ANC. The truth of the matter is that Jacob Zuma is committed to the unity of the ANC in a way that Mbeki isnt. Note that Zuma, in all his travails over the last 7 years, never turned his back on the organisation, never blamed the organisation for his troubles when it would have been very easy to do so. The Polokwane Conference was simply that of an organisations members reasserting their primacy over a recalcitrant, arrogant and absurdly out of touch leadership. The challenge is whether the organisation will be able to maintain this democratic momentum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment isnt about Stevens piece because there is really nothing to add to what is a well reasoned and insightful argument. Rather, my sadness is about the negative comments from mostly white respondents who need to find in the ANC Conference signs that confirm their racist prejudices about the inability of black people to rule. It must be indeed incredibly difficult for them to even begin to acknowledge that the ANC has, through all its travails, has managed to avoid the split they were all hoping for. They now cling to the other fantasy that the ascent of Zuma to the Presidency will result in the ultimate destruction of the ANC. The truth of the matter is that Jacob Zuma is committed to the unity of the ANC in a way that Mbeki isnt. Note that Zuma, in all his travails over the last 7 years, never turned his back on the organisation, never blamed the organisation for his troubles when it would have been very easy to do so. The Polokwane Conference was simply that of an organisations members reasserting their primacy over a recalcitrant, arrogant and absurdly out of touch leadership. The challenge is whether the organisation will be able to maintain this democratic momentum.</p>
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		<title>By: Bheka Mkhize</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9539</link>
		<dc:creator>Bheka Mkhize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9539</guid>
		<description>Quote: &quot;What I said was that Zuma’s supporters, and in particular the ANCYL, went about creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos. An obvious example was the laboured deliberation over voting processes. I think that this is a sign of things to come. You might not agree. I’m not sure how media coverage has anything to do with it.&quot; ross 
My comment: Ross, you need to be careful how you label situations. What &#039;sophisticated and educated&#039; people like Ross might call &#039;creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos&#039; democracy loving people might call &#039;unsophisticated and uneducated people&#039;s willingness to be involved&#039; in most of the processes of the conference. It quite amazing that we always preach &#039;POWER TO THE PEOPLE&#039; but when people try to exercise that power we say they are &#039;chaotic&#039;. 

To add to Prof. Friedman&#039;s point, credit should be given to &#039;Zuma camp&#039; and &#039;Mbheki camp&#039; for not resorting to any violence when expressing their different views. I am 120% proud of you guys. I wish you could realise that the next step is for you to unite and collaborate in making South Africa country for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote: &#8220;What I said was that Zuma’s supporters, and in particular the ANCYL, went about creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos. An obvious example was the laboured deliberation over voting processes. I think that this is a sign of things to come. You might not agree. I’m not sure how media coverage has anything to do with it.&#8221; ross<br />
My comment: Ross, you need to be careful how you label situations. What &#8216;sophisticated and educated&#8217; people like Ross might call &#8216;creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos&#8217; democracy loving people might call &#8216;unsophisticated and uneducated people&#8217;s willingness to be involved&#8217; in most of the processes of the conference. It quite amazing that we always preach &#8216;POWER TO THE PEOPLE&#8217; but when people try to exercise that power we say they are &#8216;chaotic&#8217;. </p>
<p>To add to Prof. Friedman&#8217;s point, credit should be given to &#8216;Zuma camp&#8217; and &#8216;Mbheki camp&#8217; for not resorting to any violence when expressing their different views. I am 120% proud of you guys. I wish you could realise that the next step is for you to unite and collaborate in making South Africa country for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bheka Mkhize</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9536</link>
		<dc:creator>Bheka Mkhize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9536</guid>
		<description>Quote: &quot;I am one of the lucky ones, and am taking uncle Charles’s advice and packing for Perth. I am taking my skills and my family’s skills and taxes with me. I will be leaving you (personally) to “wallow in your foolishness”, while resting assured that I will not be providing any foreign aid to you in any way, shape or form.&quot; Jonathan
My comment: Bye Jonathan. We will really &#039;Miss&#039; you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote: &#8220;I am one of the lucky ones, and am taking uncle Charles’s advice and packing for Perth. I am taking my skills and my family’s skills and taxes with me. I will be leaving you (personally) to “wallow in your foolishness”, while resting assured that I will not be providing any foreign aid to you in any way, shape or form.&#8221; Jonathan<br />
My comment: Bye Jonathan. We will really &#8216;Miss&#8217; you</p>
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		<title>By: ross</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9497</link>
		<dc:creator>ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9497</guid>
		<description>Having claimed that:

1. Democratic process doesn&#039;t necessarily ensure the survival of democracy.
2. You have to be ill-informed to vote for Jacob Zuma.
3. Zuma&#039;s supporters think, erroneously, that socialism is a fix to South Africa&#039;s problems.
4. There was, at times, bureaucratic chaos in Polokwane, engineered by Zuma&#039;s supporters.
5. We only have elections once every 5 years.
6. Zuma and his cronies on the left will bring corruption, mismanagement and inflation.

and also that...

7. What happened in Polokwane was democratic.
8. In some respects Mbeki took the economy too far to the right, and there is indeed an urgent need for redistribution.

Anthony and Bheka Mkhize, how the hell do you come to the conclusion, then, from that, that I&#039;m &quot;racist&quot;? Where have I said, or even implied, that any of this has ANYTHING to do with race? I guess it&#039;s easier to simply throw around terms of abuse than actually engage in debate.

Vuyo also managed to conclude that I was &quot;gullible and ignorant&quot; because I ignored the fact that Mbeki&#039;s supporters were being just as disruptive as JZ&#039;s. But the point I was making, Vuyo, wasn&#039;t that Mbeki&#039;s supporters weren;t disruptive, or indeed that Zuma&#039;s supporters were especially disruptive. I actually have no problem with &#039;disruptive&#039; per se. A bit of booing and jeering and laughing is always welcome in politics. What I said was that Zuma&#039;s supporters, and in particular the ANCYL, went about creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos. An obvious example was the laboured deliberation over voting processes. I think that this is a sign of things to come. You might not agree. I&#039;m not sure how media coverage has anything to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having claimed that:</p>
<p>1. Democratic process doesn&#8217;t necessarily ensure the survival of democracy.<br />
2. You have to be ill-informed to vote for Jacob Zuma.<br />
3. Zuma&#8217;s supporters think, erroneously, that socialism is a fix to South Africa&#8217;s problems.<br />
4. There was, at times, bureaucratic chaos in Polokwane, engineered by Zuma&#8217;s supporters.<br />
5. We only have elections once every 5 years.<br />
6. Zuma and his cronies on the left will bring corruption, mismanagement and inflation.</p>
<p>and also that&#8230;</p>
<p>7. What happened in Polokwane was democratic.<br />
8. In some respects Mbeki took the economy too far to the right, and there is indeed an urgent need for redistribution.</p>
<p>Anthony and Bheka Mkhize, how the hell do you come to the conclusion, then, from that, that I&#8217;m &#8220;racist&#8221;? Where have I said, or even implied, that any of this has ANYTHING to do with race? I guess it&#8217;s easier to simply throw around terms of abuse than actually engage in debate.</p>
<p>Vuyo also managed to conclude that I was &#8220;gullible and ignorant&#8221; because I ignored the fact that Mbeki&#8217;s supporters were being just as disruptive as JZ&#8217;s. But the point I was making, Vuyo, wasn&#8217;t that Mbeki&#8217;s supporters weren;t disruptive, or indeed that Zuma&#8217;s supporters were especially disruptive. I actually have no problem with &#8216;disruptive&#8217; per se. A bit of booing and jeering and laughing is always welcome in politics. What I said was that Zuma&#8217;s supporters, and in particular the ANCYL, went about creating a lot of the BUREAUCRATIC chaos. An obvious example was the laboured deliberation over voting processes. I think that this is a sign of things to come. You might not agree. I&#8217;m not sure how media coverage has anything to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Friedman</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9496</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Friedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9496</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all this - the interest is very encouraging. I am really inclined to leave you all to continue debating but T Kwetane asks for a response and, since this is the first time I have had here at Polokwane to join in, I will do so very briefly.

There are obviously quite a few people who feel that any advantage we gain from robust democracy in the ANC is outweighed by the fact that a man they do not trust won the ANC election. I think that the fact that ANC delegates have signalled to their leaders that they are not in office for as long as they want to be and that they can be voted out is far more important than who they elected. What kind of president of either the ANC or the country Zuma would make is to me unclear. But, even if he is not who we need, I think that the fact that leadership has changed in a free vote outweighs doubts about Zuma the man. I have become convinced that even well-meaning and very competent leadership groups begin to become disasters if they stay around too long. I think there probably is nothing more certain to decay politics than this and so I think that uncertainty or seeing someone elected who is not ideal is a price worth paying for changing those in power.
As for those who still see the majority of delegates here at Polokwane as an unruly mob, I  invite you to think about a situation in which &#039;the mob&#039; has been in charge for five days but no-one has been hurt and no-one has been prevented from speaking their mind. I wish all mobs were like this.

Steven Friedman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all this &#8211; the interest is very encouraging. I am really inclined to leave you all to continue debating but T Kwetane asks for a response and, since this is the first time I have had here at Polokwane to join in, I will do so very briefly.</p>
<p>There are obviously quite a few people who feel that any advantage we gain from robust democracy in the ANC is outweighed by the fact that a man they do not trust won the ANC election. I think that the fact that ANC delegates have signalled to their leaders that they are not in office for as long as they want to be and that they can be voted out is far more important than who they elected. What kind of president of either the ANC or the country Zuma would make is to me unclear. But, even if he is not who we need, I think that the fact that leadership has changed in a free vote outweighs doubts about Zuma the man. I have become convinced that even well-meaning and very competent leadership groups begin to become disasters if they stay around too long. I think there probably is nothing more certain to decay politics than this and so I think that uncertainty or seeing someone elected who is not ideal is a price worth paying for changing those in power.<br />
As for those who still see the majority of delegates here at Polokwane as an unruly mob, I  invite you to think about a situation in which &#8216;the mob&#8217; has been in charge for five days but no-one has been hurt and no-one has been prevented from speaking their mind. I wish all mobs were like this.</p>
<p>Steven Friedman</p>
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		<title>By: MidaFo</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9464</link>
		<dc:creator>MidaFo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9464</guid>
		<description>Good post Kwetane. 
But we have no choice. Procedure in a case like this takes precedence over soothsaying and moral outrage. Accepting victory on the strength of procedure binds the  winner with responsibility. It is procedure and those who adhere to it that I admire. Procedure will continue to be king in the light of Polokwane. While politics adheres to procedure it remains positive. The man is not the issue. It was a victory for politics.
Let us now see what Zuma and his supporters can do in this understanding.
I feel Mbeki is to be given some credit here and is thinking the same sane way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post Kwetane.<br />
But we have no choice. Procedure in a case like this takes precedence over soothsaying and moral outrage. Accepting victory on the strength of procedure binds the  winner with responsibility. It is procedure and those who adhere to it that I admire. Procedure will continue to be king in the light of Polokwane. While politics adheres to procedure it remains positive. The man is not the issue. It was a victory for politics.<br />
Let us now see what Zuma and his supporters can do in this understanding.<br />
I feel Mbeki is to be given some credit here and is thinking the same sane way.</p>
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		<title>By: Bheka Mkhize</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/comment-page-2/#comment-9443</link>
		<dc:creator>Bheka Mkhize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/stevenfriedman/2007/12/17/no-dear-thats-not-mob-rule-its-called-democracy/#comment-9443</guid>
		<description>Anthony said: &quot;For goodness sake (the likes of David, Ross etc etc) get over yourselves, try to at least disguise your racism and get INFORMED.&quot; 
My response: Anthony you are crying for the moon! I don&#039;t expect people like David and Ross to stop racism. We should just learn to co-exist with. I think it is safer to pray for a stronger back, than praying for a lighter load. Maybe they will change in 2090!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony said: &#8220;For goodness sake (the likes of David, Ross etc etc) get over yourselves, try to at least disguise your racism and get INFORMED.&#8221;<br />
My response: Anthony you are crying for the moon! I don&#8217;t expect people like David and Ross to stop racism. We should just learn to co-exist with. I think it is safer to pray for a stronger back, than praying for a lighter load. Maybe they will change in 2090!</p>
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