Comments on: The folly of arrogance of the new ANC http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/ Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Lyndall Beddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-52150 Lyndall Beddy Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:27:23 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-52150 Sipho The Mbeki AND the Zuma camps both got kickbacks - BOTH want the Scorpions disolved - this is about all that they DO agree about. Sipho

The Mbeki AND the Zuma camps both got kickbacks – BOTH want the Scorpions disolved – this is about all that they DO agree about.

]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-51218 Sipho Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:55:28 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-51218 Lyndall Beddy, so why are you so generous to the Zuma camp when all the resolutions were drafted by the Mbeki camp? Why would Mbeki want to dissolve the scorpions when they are not personally giving him a hard time? I would have expected him to fiercely resist the dissolution of the scorpions since they are dealing with his rival. Lyndall Beddy, so why are you so generous to the Zuma camp when all the resolutions were drafted by the Mbeki camp? Why would Mbeki want to dissolve the scorpions when they are not personally giving him a hard time? I would have expected him to fiercely resist the dissolution of the scorpions since they are dealing with his rival.

]]> By: Lyndall Beddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-50096 Lyndall Beddy Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:40:48 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-50096 Sipho The voting was supposed to finish on the first two days - it did not. They fought and argued about everything, even that the votes must be counted manually not electronically. The voting finished on the Second last day and the resolutions were just rubber stamped on the last day. The vote was 40% to the Mbeki camp and 60% to the Zuma camp - except I think those descriptions a bit deceptive. The differences are about tactics and control not about leaders. As for the resolutions - they were prepared by Joel Netsitenzhe and team before Polokwane (when he was still in Mbeki's team) so I think you can safely say there were no policy differences, and that both sides wanted the Scorpions out. As for the oft repeated "resolutions taken at Polokwane" - Rubbish! They rubber stamped them! ALL of them - both camps! This was NOT about policy but about power! They did not even DISCUSS the resolutions together in conference! Sipho

The voting was supposed to finish on the first two days – it did not. They fought and argued about everything, even that the votes must be counted manually not electronically. The voting finished on the Second last day and the resolutions were just rubber stamped on the last day.

The vote was 40% to the Mbeki camp and 60% to the Zuma camp – except I think those descriptions a bit deceptive. The differences are about tactics and control not about leaders.

As for the resolutions – they were prepared by Joel Netsitenzhe and team before Polokwane (when he was still in Mbeki’s team) so I think you can safely say there were no policy differences, and that both sides wanted the Scorpions out. As for the oft repeated “resolutions taken at Polokwane” – Rubbish! They rubber stamped them! ALL of them – both camps! This was NOT about policy but about power! They did not even DISCUSS the resolutions together in conference!

]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-49565 Sipho Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:40:47 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-49565 Lyndall Beddy, you haven't answered my question which is, what was the percentage that took the resolutions. Did mbeki and those who voted him also participate in the 'little discussion' that took place? If they did not, you can't blame anyone for people who sulk after losing an election. Is it not about time we reinforce a culture of accepting defeat and encourage people to regroup and contest next elections. You denounce the winners today, they'll do the same next time you win. Lyndall Beddy, you haven’t answered my question which is, what was the percentage that took the resolutions. Did mbeki and those who voted him also participate in the ‘little discussion’ that took place? If they did not, you can’t blame anyone for people who sulk after losing an election. Is it not about time we reinforce a culture of accepting defeat and encourage people to regroup and contest next elections. You denounce the winners today, they’ll do the same next time you win.

]]> By: Lyndall Beddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-49300 Lyndall Beddy Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:29:47 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-49300 Sipho They spent so much time on voting that they pushed through all those important resolutions on the last day, with it would appear little discussion, and when some of the delegates had already packed up and gone home. And how do I know ?- I listened through the whole conference to SAFM and even sent them an sms bagging them to adjourn because there was not enough time left properly to consider the agenda! Sipho

They spent so much time on voting that they pushed through all those important resolutions on the last day, with it would appear little discussion, and when some of the delegates had already packed up and gone home.

And how do I know ?- I listened through the whole conference to SAFM and even sent them an sms bagging them to adjourn because there was not enough time left properly to consider the agenda!

]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-49189 Sipho Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:45:12 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-49189 Lyndall Beddy, since you seem to be on the know, which percentage of the delegates took the polokwane resolutions.What happened to the other percentage that wasn't part of the resolution deliberations? Did they pack their bags and went home or sat outside the venue until resolutions were taken? It seems you only split the delegates when it suits your agenda.This is not a good start to forming a coalition of the opposition parties. Lyndall Beddy, since you seem to be on the know, which percentage of the delegates took the polokwane resolutions.What happened to the other percentage that wasn’t part of the resolution deliberations? Did they pack their bags and went home or sat outside the venue until resolutions were taken? It seems you only split the delegates when it suits your agenda.This is not a good start to forming a coalition of the opposition parties.

]]> By: Bernard http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-49175 Bernard Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:57:11 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-49175 The ANC is a big organisation hence the focus on it. The tendencies you alluded to are witnessesed in all corners of South Africa today, even in churches. The ANC is a big organisation hence the focus on it. The tendencies you alluded to are witnessesed in all corners of South Africa today, even in churches.

]]> By: Lyndall Beddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-49030 Lyndall Beddy Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:54:36 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-49030 Mafuyane The Browse Moele report investigation has already revealed that the Scorpions/NPA computers were tampered with. Who do you think had the motive other than the arms deal fraudsters? AND it appears that it would have likely been former "foreign intelligence agents". Looks like more than one group were using them! And the Scorpions have no access to intelligance except from outsiders, when they suspect people inside the system of corruption. They can hardly be asked to investigate themselves! Like this lovely little fairytail that they did not have to supoena Zuma for proof of corruption - he would willingly have handed it over- Get real! And why would they incriminate themselves by tampering with their own computers? Sipho I have already said, many times, that I support a coalition of all the opposition parties. 60% of the delegates at Polpkwane voted for Zuma and 40% for Mbeki. That is why the figure is 60% of 4000. That is NOT complicated maths! Mafuyane

The Browse Moele report investigation has already revealed that the Scorpions/NPA computers were tampered with. Who do you think had the motive other than the arms deal fraudsters? AND it appears that it would have likely been former “foreign intelligence agents”. Looks like more than one group were using them! And the Scorpions have no access to intelligance except from outsiders, when they suspect people inside the system of corruption. They can hardly be asked to investigate themselves! Like this lovely little fairytail that they did not have to supoena Zuma for proof of corruption – he would willingly have handed it over- Get real! And why would they incriminate themselves by tampering with their own computers?

Sipho

I have already said, many times, that I support a coalition of all the opposition parties.

60% of the delegates at Polpkwane voted for Zuma and 40% for Mbeki. That is why the figure is 60% of 4000. That is NOT complicated maths!

]]> By: Sipho http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-48884 Sipho Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:11:18 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-48884 Lyndall Beddy, my point is that you're selective in your reading and hearing. You say things because you can not because they make sense.You started with 4000 delegates, now you're talking of 60% of 4000 delegates, which is which here. As an ardent DA supporter I would expect you to attend every DA walk about to hear Ms Zille. The difference between Mr Zuma and Ms Zille's supporters, is that Mr Zuma's supporters are not shy to declare their support for him. Lyndall Beddy, my point is that you’re selective in your reading and hearing. You say things because you can not because they make sense.You started with 4000 delegates, now you’re talking of 60% of 4000 delegates, which is which here. As an ardent DA supporter I would expect you to attend every DA walk about to hear Ms Zille. The difference between Mr Zuma and Ms Zille’s supporters, is that Mr Zuma’s supporters are not shy to declare their support for him.

]]> By: Lyndall Beddy http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/comment-page-1/#comment-48385 Lyndall Beddy Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:29:53 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sentletsediakanyo/2008/08/03/the-folly-of-arrogance-of-the-new-anc/#comment-48385 Sipho I listen every day from 6-12 to SAFM and MANY people have discussed the lack of democracy in the pressure group of the 60% of the 4000 at Polokwane! WHAT is your point? Helen Zille was not at Polokwane! And how can I hang on to her every word? Where am I supposed to hear her? On SAFM? Mafuyane Plea bargains are done to catch bigger fish. It happens to be the ONLY way to stop organised crime. In the full context, believe it or not, Zuma is merely small fry. I happen to agree that the Mark Thatcher plea bargain was disgusting - done to catch SA citizens in Zimbabwe to appease two dictators! Obviously they had to let Mark Thatcher off the hook - or the spotlight of the world would have been on those same two dictators! Dithabana You favoured hero is Mugabe. That says it all! Sipho

I listen every day from 6-12 to SAFM and MANY people have discussed the lack of democracy in the pressure group of the 60% of the 4000 at Polokwane! WHAT is your point? Helen Zille was not at Polokwane! And how can I hang on to her every word? Where am I supposed to hear her? On SAFM?

Mafuyane

Plea bargains are done to catch bigger fish. It happens to be the ONLY way to stop organised crime. In the full context, believe it or not, Zuma is merely small fry. I happen to agree that the Mark Thatcher plea bargain was disgusting – done to catch SA citizens in Zimbabwe to appease two dictators! Obviously they had to let Mark Thatcher off the hook – or the spotlight of the world would have been on those same two dictators!

Dithabana

You favoured hero is Mugabe. That says it all!

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