Religion is always a very sensitive subject, particularly to the conservative and Christian fundamentalists, but however sensitive, certain things need to be subjected to scrutiny and let out in the open for the brainwashed to see the light.
Christianity, given the proliferation of televangelists and charismatic evangelists, has transformed to become some means of social control mainly of the psychologically weak; those who easily find themselves falling into the trap laid before them by religious charlatans, swindlers and false prophets whose sole aim is to mislead, con their faithful followers and enrich themselves. These are followers who are prepared to readily give up their intellectual and emotional independence in favour of faith in these false prophets who abuse the name of the Lord in order to advance their sinister aims.
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90s. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God.”
“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90s, about ‘94-’95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [Audience applauds] But He will not destroy it — with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed.”
These are the false prophecies of some dubious character, Benny Hinn. Many of these televangelists claim to have the gift of foresight; but as history has revealed, none of their prophecies have ever been fulfilled. It is not only Benny Hinn who is a glorified con-artist but there are multitudes of them around the world. We have our own here in South Africa who live in the lap of luxury and lead very flamboyant lifestyles. I have always remained suspicious of any man standing in the pulpit who, instead of preaching the Gospel, dedicates a substantial amount of time to play on the faith of the congregation to swindle them of their money.
Tithing is the Gospel that is preached ad nauseum with the sole objective of subjecting congregants to overwhelming guilt if they do not “give to the Lord”. Something I have always been troubled by – the concept of giving to the Lord. Am I giving to these charlatans who pose of men of God or am I giving to God? Contributing to church coffers should never be through coercion and brainwashing but should be done willingly out of the goodness of one’s heart; and that contribution should never be redirected to finance the extravagant lifestyles of church leaders but help the needy communities. Of course these churches will set up charity organisations as a front to their real intentions – charities — which only receive a fraction of what the congregation contributes; the rest going to Swiss accounts and financing the purchase of Ferraris, Louis Vittons and Armanis. This is despicable!
“Away with you, you pettifogging Pharisee lawyers! You give to God a tenth of herbs, like mint, dill, and cumin, but the important duties of the Law — judgment, mercy, honesty — you have neglected. Yet these you ought to have performed, without neglecting the others,”
This cannot be less relevant to these men of the cloth who have neglected their religious purpose in the pursuit of earthly pleasures. Christianity in its traditional form is almost losing its significance, if it hasn’t already. Many of these fly-by-night pastors have not been schooled in Christian theology nor do they possess the moral authority to engage the public on the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. They are self-serving and often require of their followers to hold them up in higher pedestal; to be seen as the re-incarnation of Jesus himself; transforming churches into cults where congregants follow like zombies and dance to the sinister rhythms of the con-artists.
It is high time that the Receiver of Revenue start looking into the activities of some of these churches. Most of them are business empires that generate an abundance of wealth for their leaders, leaving the faithful souls even poorer spiritually. I miss the good old churches where the church welcomed your 10 cents without overwhelming you with guilt that you did not contribute hundreds of rand. Those churches where priests were priests and not con-artists or false prophets; where you were not judged by the car you drive, the clothes you wear, the woman you’re with or who you know.
When the day of judgment is upon us, hell will be overflowing.
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44 Responses to “Of false prophets and swindlers in the Lord’s name”
The Bible has harsh words to say to the shepherd who fleeces the flock (Exekiel 34:1-10, Jeremiah 23:1-2).
Tithing is scriptural (although subject to some differences in interpretation). The problem arises when leaders (often out of a sense of insecurity) emphasise certain parts of the Bible (which speak truth), but do not also talk much of others parts that balance that truth (”Take up your cross and follow me”).
It is a point of deep shame to all Christians that some leaders like this exist. But this does not invalidate the claims of the Bible, nor the validity of giving (financially and otherwise).
Perhaps these words in Luke 22 are apt for our times: “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.”
Nice ,rant. I agree with you many church leader have become rich on the hard earned cash of others, but not all. don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. on a lighter note, let God judge. he askes you to use your brain - not judge for him, who get in.
These stuff happens all over the world in all religions. And safe to say, the truth ALWAYS comes out. Problem is, the blind-faith followers simply ignore the proof and continue in their ways.
When I started reading this I thought (as a Christian) I was going to be reading a poorly-thought-through rant on Christianity. This was not to be! Great post, and I fully agree. People who grow rich on the back of religion, exploiting others for their own gain…gah! God has some particularly strong things to say to these people…and so should we.
“Social control of the psychologically weak”. You could have ended your article right there. That’s what all religions do; nothing more, nothing less. They prey on people’s insecurities. Taking money from gullible fools is the least of religion’s sins.
Anyone who believes in Religion or god or any other mystical illusion deserves to be parted with his/her money.
We are living in the 21st century yet the majority of the world still believes in some false deity rather than marvelling at the glory of nature and natural science.
One day humanity will come to the realisation that god was the greatest con job ever pulled.
“a fool and his money are soon parted” I think a “religious fool” and his money are parted even quicker.
Watch out for the Seven Woes! about false prophets in the book of Matthew, chapter 23. And when the Word of God forth, it makes sure that it fulfils that which it was sent to accomplish.
2 Nell:
Where did the “glory” of nature come from? For that matter, where did your capacity to enjoy that glory come from? How is it that we can converse and understand one another (even if we can’t seem to agree)?
This is not about winning points in a debating contest - this is about truth, and answers, and meaning.
And, if many have suffered at the hands of false gods, or false prophets, that does not mean that there is no true God.
And while we are quick to condemn others, let us examine our own hearts…
@Jeff: you wrote that all religions are bent on the social control of the psychologically weak: “That’s what all religions do; nothing more, nothing less.”
I have a B.Sc honours degree in information technology, am highly interested in postmodern philosophy and contribute to the open source web community. I am getting my Masters in Neuro Linguistic Programming (a branch of cognitive behavioral psychology) next month in Cape Town. I also happen to be a Christian (who lives in a new monastic community). I’d be interested to know how I am psychologically weak…must be a blind spot? :p
Just beacause the Natural world and the Cosmos seem so wonderful and hard to conceptualise does not mean that an irrational and mathematically improbable being or force created it. Just because humans lack the capacity to fully understand what is around us, doesnt mean we should prescribe a simple fairytale answer or god to all the Questions.
It is laughable to devalue the ability of language and inner thought as a gift from god, or whatever other being you believe in ( I personally prefer the flying spaghetti monster or tooth fairy). Rather recognise these two human faculties as the epitomy of evolution on our planet (not on the other billion planets that probably possess evolved life-forms).
Yes Im sure it makes humans feel special or loved to consider ourselves the “special pet project” of some fanciful god. Im sorry but there is no special meaning to our existence, we are all just part of the continuing struggle of life and death the battle of strong genes over weaker ones.
Yes I will condemm religion. It has done nothing but hold humanity back since its conception. It has promoted a concept of “us” and “them” rather than celebrating the fact that we are all just one species, one distinct ( and succesful) form of Homo Erectus.
Roger Thanus previously posted and added in parethesis that he was ” ( A CHristian) ” is that how we define oureslves??? by the ramblings of some irrational nomadic tribe leader. I was bought up Jewish but by the age of 12 I realise religion was one huge lie/con/ load of bullshit. I dont call myself a Jew.. but rather Im a HUMAN BEING! we should stop calling ourselves christians, jews, muslims, buddhists. theists, etc etc. and start calling ourselves humans! there is no significant difference genetically between the religions so why give ourselves different labels?
I one day dream of a world with no religion, one with no irrational superstition, with no fairytales told as truths, with no more LIES!
@atRoger.
So you are well educated. You study NLP.(Another form of psycho-social control?). Postmodernism appears to many scientists and academics to be little more than intellectual masturbation. Just like religion it appears to say little of any use in as incomprehensible manner as possible. Your educational accomplishments are no indicator of you having a grasp of reality.
You are psychologically weak in that you have probably been indoctrinated since birth without you even realising it. (You know: Give me a child until he is seven and he is mine for life.)All religions know this and practise it. You are a christian. If you had been born into a muslim household in a muslim country and gone to an islamic school what do you think your chances would have been of being a christian today. As a student of NLP you are surely aware of this phenomenon. Born into a religion will probably mean you will remain with that religion. It’s programming (brainwashing). Relatively few people like Neil are able to escape the mental prison they are brought up with.
Religion has been used for thousands of years to justify fascist systems. Try living in an islamic country and living with your own thoughts on freedom of speech and religion. Just like Europe was under the influence of the Catholic Church. You wouldn’t survive for long.
@Neil: welcome to the religious! I find it interesting (and rather humorous) that by your own definition of religion (that which polarises people into “us” and “them”) you are religious…since you have divided the world into those who dream of a world with no religion, and the religious. Since only the religious do this, you must therefore be “one of us.”
nice objective article, though i’ve always found the following to be true of me:
“negativity says less about it’s subject than it’s author”
so i ask myself, what does this viewpoint entitle me to not be doing?
and my general rule-of-thumb is, if i can find a hole in anything, i can disassociate myself from that thing, thereby allowing myself to continue with less of a conscience problem.
on holiday i heard someone disconnect themselves from the entire problem of poverty with this line:
“i don’t support reforms of poverty because those families have too many children. therefore it’s their fault.”
wow.
i see so much of me in this disconnecting conscience, but no matter how i try, i feel that somehow that my conscience is still not appeased.
so i further parade my point of view to more people hoping to feed that hungry conscience..
@Jeff: this is fun! Let’s continue in our mutual intellectual masturbation, and perhaps others will join in…(I love a good mixed metaphor!).
As for religion saying little of any use whatsoever, you may well be right. The little bits which my religion says which *are* some use are so small - yet challenging - that I have yet to get them right. Such as: “Love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you.” And, “Now this is true religion: to care for widows and orphans in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world.” And, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Only once I get these right will I consider myself truly religious.
But on to other things! Neil dreams of a world without, amongst other things, fairytales told as truths. No Santa? No Easter Bunny? No Hansel and Gretel? Sounds a little…grey. I prefer more colour in my world.
You say something interesting when you write, “Born into a religion will probably mean you will remain with that religion.” I wonder how you would respond when you find out that I’ve had severe difficulties with Christianity, and deeply critical of how its theology in South Africa allowed for - and supported - Apartheid ideology, that I doubt the existence of God much of the time, and that over and over again I’ve considered walking away from the whole thing. Brainwashing means you don’t question something. Being Christian means that doubt lives in dynamic tension with faith, and that there is, in fact, no other way for faith to exist.
The philosopher John Caputo says that religion is the love of the impossible, that the truly religious are those who are lovers. Fine company which I’m happy to find myself in.
@roger
Many are those who question their god, at least within Christianity; the “sainted” Mother Theresa being one of them. However I feel her questioning was overcome by the generosity of those who donated to her Sisters of Charity. Many people would still like to know where that money went as her “hospitals” certainly didn’t seem to benefit from it. She was as good as any televangelist in extorting money from believers who believed they were helping the sick and poor.
I don’t see any need to be religious to merely help those who are less fortunate than oneself.
Questioning one’s god in Islam can be exceedingly dangerous to one’s health.
I see no need whatsoever for any form of religious belief in order to help those who need it. All one needs is an appreciation of one’s humanity to all others. (I also include humane treatment of all animals, and respect for the environment)
It is logically absurd to equate Christinaity and the other religions. Oh, of course, there might not always be much difference between the practitioners - we are human, and hence fallible. So i agree that much silliness passes in the name of Jesus.
The first main difference is that if any other religion is true, then Christianity is false. End of story.
The second is that every religion except Christianity (and maybe its older brother, Judaism) outlines what man has to do to accomplish “salvation”. Man has to somehow make up the gap between us and God.
The Bible has it the other way round - it uniquely describes God paying the price that man cannot pay.
@Jeff: Mother Theresa is an extortionist? *sigh* I see your contempt for anyone tainted with religion extends to, well, everyone. Do you consider yourself amongst the enlightened because of your anti-religious stance? You do nothing to persuade me that your position is a good one which has made you more human and more loving - but keep insulting people that have done great good - maybe that will convince others that your position has helped you become a better human being.
I look forward to seeing how your “appreciation of one’s humanity” might extend to others. Feel free to start any time.
@Roger
Well done on your intellectual accomplishments, I’m sure you mum is very proud.
However, you seem to be confusing spirituality with religion.
I may have misread the post, but I think Sentletse was arguing against organised religion, which is pretty much the oldest trick in the book when it comes to making money. Why do you think it’s called “A Pyramid Scheme”?
What I find most upsetting is the number of “churches” one finds in the poorest neighbourhoods. Take a drive through Jozi’s CBD and see how many “ministries” you can spot. All offering salvation for R99.99, but wait, there’s more!
Spirituality offers enlightenment and a connection with the cosmos (for want of a better phrase). Religions offer subjugation, control and good profits.
@roger
Well might you sigh. Read Christopher Hitchens and others on Mother Theresa. Her patients are still being treated on mattresses on floors in her “hospitals”. The money was probably used for expanding her nuneries.
Anyway the Catholic Church has always been a great institution for conning poor people out of their money; goes back to the days when they were selling indulgences, and pieces of the original cross. What an outfit.
My humanity? As you ask,I spend most of my time helping African children from Cape Town’s townships to improve their reading skills which through no fault of their own are pretty dismal.
I also help poor people who are over their head in debt in their dealings with their extortionate creditors, as they often are financially illiterate and lack the self-confidence in dealing with these people.
Many people have told me that I am “an angel sent by God” to help them. (I smile but don’t disillusion them, I dont push my atheism down others throats, and if I do mention it they don’t believe me because “God sent me”). Whatever!
Others tell me that if they feel down or depressed they always feel better after they see me.
My father was a coal-miner in Wales in the Great Depression whose health was ruined by his work, with hardly any compensation and my mother was a charwoman when she could get work. I was brought up in a household with no bathroom, an outside toilet at the bottom of a garden with no flushing WC. We carried buckets of water from the house to the toilet in freezing rain and snow to flush it. We had no phone and no car. I don’t feel holier than thou about what I do for others. I get nothing for it, I do it because I can empathise with people who have very little, and I can use my skills and education to help people less fortunate than myself because they are human and part of humanity. You asked, I told you. I don’t feel “holier than thou” and expect no reward other than the appreciation in the faces of the people, especially the children that I help. I’m not always a nice person, but I feel that I am a good person, and thats’ good enough for me. When I die I’ll be dust.
“It is logically absurd to equate Christinaity and the other religions”. Why is that? Sounds perfectly logical to me. How much Logic have you actually studied, or were you just a using trifling rhetorical device?
@Luddite: my Mom is unbelievably proud of me! In fact, one day soon, she’ll let me out of this room I’ve been locked up in all of my life, so that I can see the BIG WIDE WORLD and not sit on the internet all day. Soon, I tell you, soon!
I share your sentiments on churches extorting money from the poor in the name of religion. Paying for access to God (for want of a better word) seems…ungodly, amongst other things. I’m not convinced that spirituality is a better way, simply because it follows the same route that you’ve accused religion of doing: selling its insights. The “spirituality” sections in bookshops are often the largest sections…
I talk about some of these things on July 29th at 9pm on “The Late Debate” on channel 331 on DSTV. The show is on “megachurch” and we had some robust discussion. Might be fun to watch…or at least to put a face to my online voice. Even if the shirt I wore at the studio recording matched the tablecloth. *sigh*
@Jeff: I read Christopher Hitchens and his research against that of Shane Clairborne, someone who actually lived with Mother Teresa in India for several months. They reach very different conclusions…and Clairborne has nothing to gain by painting her in a good light.
I have some pieces of the cross, if you’d like to buy them from me. Special price! :p And as for indulgences, that was how long ago? Watching the movie “Luther” when he crawls up all those steps on his knees so that he could spring his Father’s soul from purgatory revolted me. And yes, we’ve moved beyond that.
Your teaching reading skills in Cape Town townships - great! How did you start this…and are you part of a group, or do this on your own? Maybe when I’m in Cape Town one day I’ll come and visit you…I’m intrigued by the idea of white South Africans living in townships and might one day do this myself.
Your upbringing sounds tough - thanks for relating it. I have quite a privileged background and it’s good to hear other people’s stories which are different from my own. What’s a charwoman, by the way?
“I’m not convinced that spirituality is a better way, simply because it follows the same route that you’ve accused religion of doing: selling its insights. The “spirituality” sections in bookshops are often the largest sections…”
I absolutley agree with you! But that’s because most for what passes as “spirituality” today is just clap-trap esoteric sophistry. If I were sexist, I’d call it chick-porn, but I’m not so I won’t.
Spirituality is a whole lot more than a brief reading of Deepka Chopra. To me it’s something that really defies definition, although I like to think of it as finding you own personal connection to the greater universe/god. It is a journey and it is unique to every individual.
That being said, there are still plenty of people out their trying to make a quick buck out of the metaphysically confused.
If one looks a little beyond the “obvious” question of whether any form of deity exists, Christianity is fundamentally (oops, “that” word) different from any and every other religion.
This is actually not merely difference, but (logically) mutual exclusivity.
The distinctions between Christianity and the pantheistic or animist religions are obvious and need no further discussion.
This does not leave too many others. Despite the similarities with Islam, the differences in the identity and character of God are irreconcilable.
As discussed, Christianity is the only religion to postulate a means of “salvation” that takes into account man’s wrongs, but also provides a way that does not rely on man’s efforts.
And, apart from how things sound to you, in what way would you say that my logic is flawed?
@Roger Saner
Hi, the school that I volunteer at is actually in the Observatory Junior School in Cape Town, but about 98% of the learners come from the African townships, Guguletu, Philippi, Khayalitsha etc. The organisation I “work” for is called the Shine Centre, started by an amazing woman, Maurita Weissenberg now assisted by some other wonderful women. It is a very successful scheme, with no-one getting paid for anything, so no money goes to administrative bureaucracy. Its a real inspiration to work with these people.
Go to www.theshinecentre.org.za or www.shinecentrecapetown.blogspot.com
Actually I never thought or experienced my life as being tough. I had good family and that’s just how life was, I’d never experienced anything different so I never missed it. It was a very tight-knit Welsh coalmining community so everyone helped everyone else, if you had something you shared it. I suppose my attitude to life and humanity stems from that early upbringing. I was fortunate, the Labour Party got into power after WWII and I was able to get free schooling and university education, something that had been denied to others in my family.
A charwoman is a domestic worker. My mother scrubbed the floors of the local GP’s waiting room and surgery(his rooms).
I’d look forward to meeting you if you came to Cape Town
The point is not that Christianity is the same as all other religions. I’m not an idiot. The point is that fundamentally, Christianity has the same forms and structures of other monotheistic religions.
And it’s almost identical, in an historical sense, to Islam and Judaism. I total disgree with your statement: the differences in the identity and character of God are irreconcilable. It’s the SAME god!
The Qu’ran says that G.d/Allah sent His prophets to EVERY nation. As every religion or tribe that I have ever heard of believed in a Creator God, that seems to be true.
Luddite, simply repeating something does not make it true. Agreed that many structures (and many bad practices) are very similar to others (we all share the same basic human nature). However, if one looks at core belief, then the differences arise. And, how is it, exactly, that you can say that the “god” is the same in each?
Lyndall,
Jesus said that He was the only way to the Father, and that His name was the only name by which men might be saved.
If any other religion offered salvation (entry to heaven, and removal of our sins), then Jesus’ claims would be false, and hence Christianity as a whole would be false.
He also calimed co-divinity with God. Ismal, for example, treats Jesus as a great prophet and not divine. If this is true, then Jesus claim is false…
All pantheistic religions, at their core, believe that “god” is just an ultimate nothingness, and becoming one with this cosmic nothing is “salvation” (nirvana). Again, this contradicts the claims of the Bible.
However, this mutual exclusivity of ultimate truth does not in any way preclude us from meaningful or harmonious relationships between Christians and those of other faiths. Indeed, humility dictates that we embrace one another as comnpletely valuable human beings (although we sometimes find this hard to do when our belief systems differ). Nonetheless, we are all human and this is how we should be.
Even the E.T.s (Extra Terrestrials)tell earthlings during their occasional visits here that there is a Supreme Being who created the universe.
Is has been postulated that humans on earth were not created by the Supreme Being, however, but by flesh and blood beings who evolved millions of years earlier than homonids on earth, and came from
somewhere else. (the Sumerians wrote that these beings came from a planet called Nibiru). They knew lots about genetic engineering, and created the first humans from modified genes of an African female homonid.
Mitochondrial DNA analysis proves that all humans have descended from an African female, and scientists reckon this happened around 150 000 to 300 000 years ago.
One theory is that these ETs created humans because they wanted earthling slaves to mine certain minerals. The oldest mines known on earth are around 100 000 years old!
Slavery, and use of gold and silver are mentioned early in the book of Genesis, before the Great Flood. Archeologists reckon the Great Flood occurred around 10 000 - 13 000 years ago.
Clearly your knowledge of Judaism and Islam is somewhat lacking. The god prayed to by Jews, Christians and Muslims, is the same god. Chrisrians and Muslim have merely added extra texts to the core belief. they only differ in practise
Not quite! The Jews and Christians pray to a God that is most definitely male. e.g. the Lords Payer starts out with “Our Father,….”. The God of the Muslims is gender neutral, i.e. it is neither male nor female. If references to the God of the Musilms in scriptures or other religious writings uses male adjectives/pronouns etc. it is only because of the absense of appropriate gender neutral terms in Arabic.
Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in one Creator God. They also all believe that Abraham was the “patriarch” of the religion. They also all believe that The Archangel Michael is in charge of the angels waging the war against the demons of this world to protect believers.
You are relying on the texts “The only way to the Father is through the Son” and “I am the Way”.
Now what do you think that means?
God said that once he had sent His Son, Jesus would be the judge. Therefore the ONLY way will be through his judgement. What makes you think he only judges Christians? And if there are only Christians in Heaven whom did Christ meet in the Garden on the night before his capture?
Luddite,
For the purposes of this discussion, “God” is the same for Judaism and for Christianity - although Judaism clearly does not recognise the divinity of Christ. Islam may seem to claim that their God is the same, but the Bible taken as a whole must dispel this notion (the character of God shown in the Bible is very different from Allah).
Lyndall,
I agree that the monotheism of Islam with emphasis on a Creator is very close to Christianity (I might be accused of splitting hairs). However, this is hardly surprising as Islam used the Old Testament as a reference - the beliefs about Abraham, for instance, are not arrived at entirely independently.
Biblically, salvation is available only because of what Jesus accomplished on the Cross. Belief in this is not some arbitrary “entrance exam”, but is a spiritual reality. There was a real problem to deal with, and the death and resurrection of Jesus were the only means to deal with it. This is what makes salvation available to those who truly believed in God before the time of Christ.
Exactly how God judges those before Christ, or those who have not heard of Him I could not say for sure. But I do know that the Bible says that God’s intention was to make the salvation won by Christ available through faith in Him. That is why the disciples were told to “go into all the world” to proclaim the “gospel” (good news) of Jesus.
It is not about conforming to some religious code (as almost all other religions require), but about acknowledging our need, and responding to the answer to this need.
“However, this is hardly surprising as Islam used the Old Testament as a reference - the beliefs about Abraham, for instance, are not arrived at entirely independently.”
This statement is completely erroneous. Let me demonstrate:
Christians profess that in the Bible, Love and Punishment of God is presented as if it is done through emotions. The Universe is randomly controlled by God, and thus cling to miracles and that the fixed laws in nature are useless when it comes to the approach to reality as given in the Bible.
In the Quran, the Universe follows a fixed course and follows fixed laws from which God does not deviate from ever. These Laws are created in such a way that humans can use their free will. All deeds have consequences, in this Life or the Next. Animals have inborn instinct, inborn Divine Guidance (24:41), but humans do not have a dominant instinct.
This is to allow their free will. And so God has given Divine Guidance through Prophets, chosen people, to relate His Guidance, and mankind can accept or reject freely without bothering Him. The only problem is that humans by themselves cannot behave correctly towards Reality without Guidance, and so without it, they will create deeds which might have dire consequences.
God knows handling Free Will is hard, and so He protects us against many consequences.
But His Love for us is mostly seen in the reason WHY He has revealed Guidance. In Christianity for example, people are born with sin that supposedly was given by Adam. The Quran rejects this idea as nobody can carry the burden of another.
The concept of carrying the stain of sin of Adam and then freeing us through the suffering of Jesus is contradicting, and illogical. In this whole ideology there is no room at all for responsibility of a person’s own deeds. And the relationship between God and man is unfair as it is God who decided when to punish and when to free a person.
The Quran denies this ideology and calls it man-made. The Quran frees man of this self-imposed concept of ’sin’ and says everybody gets a fair chance. He has made fixed laws which everyone can follow to attain perfection. There are no personal interests for God in our creation. And the same holds for Revelation.
Revelations were send to unite people and free them from the shackles of human will. Laws are not based on the elite’s need, or the opinion of the majority, as both of these do not coincide with reality and will not create equal chances for all humans.
The System of the Quran, creates a society were every single individual will have the same opportunity, benefit and means to develop his Self.
The Love of God in the Quran is shown through the Laws He demands to be established in the society. As love for God in the Gospel and Torah does not free anyone from the burden of the unjust in society. The love they experience is self-imposed and the ‘result’ of God’s love can only be experienced in the Hereafter in Christian theology.
In Quranic theology, the Love of God is directly experienced through the caring laws He demands to be followed by society. His system is like the womb of a mother, He is Rahman. This is the difference between the Realistic God of the Quran, and that of the Bible.
So when you want to show the Love of God in the Quran and that of the Bible, you must compare:
-The Love of God in the Bible leaves one with a feeling and a waiting of the result in the Hereafter. This Love does not help to create peace on earth or help us create a peaceful and fair society. People carry the burden of sin, while never having participated in the deed done, and then are freed by the one who put the unfair burden upon us. This is slapping you for the deed of somebody else, and then slaps himself to free you of the burden of that somebody elses’ deed. This is unfair love. It is a bit like the love people experience for their hostage-taker that develops through fear and feeling of bonding. Although Christianity creates high morals under its followers, it does not create solutions for mankind, and thus God’s Love is moved only to the Next world. People are left to themselves and must through a hard path of trial and error create better life conditions.
-In the Quran, God’s Love is expressed through the Laws He demands to be followed by us. Because these Laws create an equal and just society where everybody is allowed to be free and to be taken care of, so everybody can develop them Selves to the fullest. It creates a perfect society that prepares people for the Hereafter. There are no real class-difference and all wealth is spread out over the people so all can benefit. The Love is not felt, it is directly experienced. Nobody carries the burden of another, and all are judged according to fair and direct Laws so all people will know how they are judged. Rewards are created through actions that lead to developing of mankind. People can skip the trial and error experience and are directly guided to the best ways for society. God has not left them alone, no person in society, no human on earth, He guides them all to the right path of living directly. And so His Love is not shifted to the Hereafter, but to both worlds, here and the next. His Love is felt and experienced through the Laws that create equal circumstances for all humans on Earth, He tells them how to develop themselves and others.
The God of the Quran does not leave any path open, He explains all fields, so mankind is not left alone in any field. Justice, Politics, State, Individual, Marriage, Social, Science, Theology, Spiritual, all matters are explained, so mankind knows directly what he is up too and what is expected of him.
@ardee
Ardee, you really are awfully long-winded. Do you make this twaddle up as you go along. God of the koran? God of the bible? God is a figment of your very vivid imagination.
“His Love is felt and experienced through the Laws that create equal circumstances for all humans on Earth, He tells them how to develop themselves and others”.
Equal circumstances for all. Take a look around you fella.
“The System of the Quran, creates a society were every single individual will have the same opportunity, benefit and means to develop his Self”.
Glad you said “his self”. Women are given short shrift in many islamic countries that subscribe to a notion of koranic society.
Richard Dawkins was right. Theology, as a study of god has no right to be a subject at universities. Everyone has their own version of what god is and what god says. No-one can prove anyone right or wrong. It’s all inside your head buddy. It doesn’t exist outside your cranium, and what is going on in there really makes me concerned for you. Y
@ardee
Ardee, you really are awfully long-winded. Do you make this twaddle up as you go along. God of the koran? God of the bible? God is a figment of your very vivid imagination.
“His Love is felt and experienced through the Laws that create equal circumstances for all humans on Earth, He tells them how to develop themselves and others”.
Equal circumstances for all. Take a look around you fella.
“The System of the Quran, creates a society were every single individual will have the same opportunity, benefit and means to develop his Self”.
Glad you said “his self”. Women are given short shrift in many islamic countries that subscribe to a notion of koranic society.
Richard Dawkins was right. Theology, as a study of god has no right to be a subject at universities. Everyone has their own version of what god is and what god says. No-one can prove anyone right or wrong. It’s all inside your head buddy. It doesn’t exist outside your cranium, and what is going on in there really makes me concerned for you.
Dawkins and Darwin plagerised their theories from the early Muslims. Scientists of the 12-14th century such as Al-Kindi, Ibn-Rushd, Ibn Tufayl, Ibn-Arabi, Ibn-Khaldun. The concept of Evolution was first described by the Greeks, but it was further developed by the early Muslims. Ibn-Khaldun al described and promoted the concept of Evolution. Before the 1800’s, Evolution Theory was known in Europe as the ‘Muhammedan Creation Theory’ and was described in almost all Muslim Medicine and Science Books. It was also part of normal education in the Muslim schools and Universities.
Ibn Khaldun [1332-1406, 400 years before Darwin!] wrote in his Muqaddimah, an Introduction to History:
“One should then look at the world of Creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants such as palms and vines is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power to touch. The word ‘connection’ with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group. The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man ( after the world of monkeys). This is as far as our (physical) observation extends.”
This is just one example out of hundreds of opinions and observations made by Muslim scholars in the early centuries of Islam. When Darwin made his own speculations based on the Muslim Theory of Evolution, it was taken up by the Materialist Movement of the West. Darwin’s grandfather and father were both Biologist and a Doctor, and thus had translated Muslim books on Biology and Medicine at home. It is no surprise Darwin got the Theory from these books. Because the Theory of Evolution is not supported by the Bible, and also because Darwin’s speculations gave a bit of room for a Creator-less creation, Darwin’s version of the Theory was taken up by the Atheists. Through this Evolution Theory was seen as equal to Atheism, and Muslims, through loss of their knowledge and their aversion of the Materialist Colonial powers of the West that had conquered them, became to reject the Theory of Evolution. And took up together with the Christian world, the concept of Instant Creation. A concept that goes directly against the language of the Quran and its Message as will be shown.
There were I suppose “theories” of evolution or something similar before Darwin. As you say the Greeks came up with something similar. (I wouldn’t know, first I’v heard of it). What you quote is not a theory of anything, it was wild specuation. Lamarck also had a theory before Darwin.
Dawkins din’t formulate any theory of evolution he merely wrote a popular scientific book explainig the theory of genetic evolution for the intelligent layman. Evolution is only one reason he is an atheist. If theology is studying god and his attributes, then it isn’t an academic field of study becaus anyone can say anything they want without fear of a rational response. If theologists want to discuss comparative religion then fine.
These arab writers you quote had no way of proving their theories, it was mere speculation.
What Darwin did was to find the way that evolution occurred; without the need for god of anything supernatural
That’s all I will be saying on evolution, I am sick of arguing with religious nuts on the topic.
You had nothing to say about the central argument I put forward about your imaginery god. If you think a god created this mess then he/she is pretty much no use to anyone for anything.
There is a book you might enjoy reading called “Green was The Earth on the Seventh Day” by Thor ??, the Kontiki Raft man, who was brought up by a very moral and atheist mother, and a not so moral but religious father. One of the theories was that God created a perfect world - and then gave man free will to manage it, and he started to stuff it up from the eighth day!
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The Bible has harsh words to say to the shepherd who fleeces the flock (Exekiel 34:1-10, Jeremiah 23:1-2).
Tithing is scriptural (although subject to some differences in interpretation). The problem arises when leaders (often out of a sense of insecurity) emphasise certain parts of the Bible (which speak truth), but do not also talk much of others parts that balance that truth (”Take up your cross and follow me”).
It is a point of deep shame to all Christians that some leaders like this exist. But this does not invalidate the claims of the Bible, nor the validity of giving (financially and otherwise).
Perhaps these words in Luke 22 are apt for our times: “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.”
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