Once upon a time, Hestrie Cloete inspired me to write a piece for the Sunday Times Lifestyle supplement. She and her husband, Jurie Els, had invited Huisgenoot into their home to view their new progeny, a little girl. They had bestowed on the poor child the ghastly moniker of Chrizette. She would have to go through life sounding like a brand of paper serviette.
(Huisgenoot offers a rich vein to mine for those who, like me, seek the rare and transcendent joy of happening upon a truly appalling name.)
Hestrie and Jurie are not alone. It has not escaped my notice that for some reason, Afrikaans speakers tend to have a weakness for names of no formal provenance or meaning; this practice seems to be associated more with girls than boys. Also, they are fond of combination names that reflect those of both parents. The French accent aigu is horribly abused, and stuck almost everywhere (as it happens, my laptop can’t insert accents so you’ll just have to imagine them plonked willy-nilly over every innocent passing e).
Thus, in a recent issue of Huisgenoot, it was reported that a couple were in a legal battle with the surrogate mother of a child they proposed to name Leoret, a combination of Leon and Doret. (The surrogate mother wanted to name the infant Dene-with-an-accent-on-the-e, so the child is truly between a rock and a hard place.)
A few of my more recent finds include:
Elizna
Hermienka and
Sonnika
Old favourites include such gems as:
Li-Anri
Elzette
Hanri
Anriette
Elzaan
Riette
Diorette
Liorette
Alzette
Danne and
Chanelize
And also:
Creshenda
Chrisinda
Chare-ne
Charne
Dije and
Biejanka
The endless fecundity of the awful made-up name meme is the fact that it is so simple: all you need to do is combine one of a few basic prefixes — Al, An, Liz, Dor, El, Ri, Han and Chan or Dan being common — with a few basic suffixes, usually -ize, -aan, -ette or the ubiquitous e-with-the-accent-on-it. And, voila, you have your formula.
The authors of Freakonomics delved into this subject in their chapter linking preferred names to social class. In the US, names can be strong markers of race, too. There, men called Andre, Bernard or Tyrone are almost always African-American; invented names such as LaTonya or Roshanda are, as the Freakonomics article describes them, “super black”.
The point made in Freakonomics is not that a name in itself is predictive of success in life, but that it is indicative of other factors that influence outcomes. Thus, names that are strongly black are associated with low socioeconomic status and poor education levels.
I am not aware of any study of class associations with names in South Africa, but it would be interesting to understand the significance of this phenomenon. Does a truly horrendous name preclude its bearer from becoming, say, a professor of mathematics? Does it doom a girl child to a weakness for Neil Diamond covers by Steve Hofmeyr, thatch lapas and paintings of sad clowns?
That’s a fate too horrible to imagine. Somebody should put a stop to the abuse.
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117 Responses to “Why do Afrikaans speakers make up such awful names?”
What the hell is wrong with Neil Diamond covers by Steve Hofmeyr? Tsk.
Neil Diamond covers by Steve Hofmeyr? I can’t imagine many things worse, except perhaps reading through Sarah Palin’s autobiography.
The boring answer to your question is that it is the crimplene-generation’s revolt against Afrikaans family names, the old-style habit. For example, as my parent’s third son, my Christian names are the same as my father’s maternal grandfather’s names. And so on. Those can be traced back to 17th century Europe - and earlier. Makes it easier to trace your pre-Internet genealogy, if you’re so inclined. The new generations have lost that link.
I diverted slightly from the old habits by giving my kids French versions of the family Christian names, seeing that they were conceived in Quebec, and are part-descendants of the Huguenots.
But the new style funny names have done no harm to some, just look at Charlize Theron.
Gee Sarah - be brave and have a go at Jewish, Muslim and Black/Coloured African names. Correlate these to certain important historical milestones and look for a pattern. I’m sure the Partiot Act could use a researcher with your talents.
So you hope to get what response? ….. Sorry excuse for an article which says more of the writer than of the subject. Afrikaaner bashing needs more substance than this! If you as an English speaking person don’t like the names, get over it and go on.
I would suggest that the Afrikaans youth be grateful to have such a wide sprouting of new/made up names….LOL there are some pearlers in your list though…Esmee met a kappie seems popular to?
A fait that befell my father was to be christened Joahnnes, Jacobus, Gerhardus, Ignatious, before even getting to his surname, the last two names bearing the patronage of his father…so guess who was next in line?
Thank goodness for an English-speaking wife…who talked her husband out of such a name for her son, but agreeing to keep the initials – names like Gwayne were in the offering for what would have been a tormented childhood, but thankfully a Welsh ruby superstar and hero to my father, a certain Gareth Edwards put a s top to the child naming madness…
African Americans seem to be attracted to the Muslim route, namely Jamal which is now as popular as Singh in the Indian Yellow Pages.
this was actually a status field of mine on crackbook a while back:
okay, these afrikaans names [both coloured and white] need to stop. i’m watching pasella. this boeremeisie’s name is, get this, alletté-johanni. what the fuck kind of name is that?
a friend from my high school in the usa responded: “it’s the african version of shaniqua.”
…which makes this whole article just amusing.
but just as you read huisgenoot for the kak names, i watch pasella for the same reason. another good source of name fail is the farm report, also in afrikaans.
[my afrikaans is good enough to follow both shows for the content, but it’s really funny to watch/listen to.]
I had a number of Afrikaans friends when I grew up. Their names were invariably contrived and often ended in ‘ette’ or ‘elle’ Danelle, Sanelle, Sanette, Lizette, Lilette….(that last one being particularly nice). But I suppose they aren’t as bad as some others I have encountered; Eufeesia and Ossewania being the most outrageous!
Aasvoel, the phenomenon is very real but your examples mainly false. Lizette is of US origin, Sanette of Hebrew origin, Danelle is a known variation of Danielle (Hebrew and French) and so on.
All very well looked up of you One Flew - such a clever being you are with Google at your disposal…it doesnt take away from the fact that Assvoel made friends with Afrikaans children baring those names…
There is a lot of truth in what Ass said…little kids running around to the echo of ‘elle’ or ‘ette’…
I find some of the names cited lovely. I actually think Riette is really pretty. So is Lilette.
I guess the corresponding American affection in addition to the ‘black’ and ’superblack’ names would be the Irish names craze and the confusion of “i” for “y” and back again - Cindy, Cyndi, Cyndy, Cindi, Cindii, Candy, Candii, Caitlyn, Caytlin, Kaytlyn, Kaitlin, etc. The kyndest babi mommas and baybi daddiis give theyr gyrl at least one ‘i’ so that she can write a byg cyrkle (or better iyet a lyttle heart) over it in overwraught notes to her fryends.
This is amusing. I have been surprised by the -ette -anne and -e endings, with the acute accent always mistakenly replaced by the grave accent (thank God nobody has put a Kappie on the e yet and further mangled the French) - but the funniest names are those with long compounds that start well - usually with some vaguely meaningful family name for a girl, but then tack on too many sexy feminine suffixes with all the allure of crimplene nighties ….Darleenette or Chauvinee or Jeandree (horrible mixture of Jean and Andre or Jeanne and Andree which I have seen for both males and females)….
Another thought - when you name your daughters, don’t think how she will wear the name as a child, but how well it would sit with her as a corporate exec - as you point out, the trendy names may seem cute when she’s 7, but are definitely career limiting moves in the corporate world. The women who break the glass ceiling all seem to have traditional names - Cynthis Carroll, Wendy Lucas-Bull, Jane Raphaely, Pam Golding….coincidence?
Another thought - when you name your daughters, don’t think how she will wear the name as a child, but how well it would sit with her as a corporate exec - as you point out, the trendy names may seem cute when she’s 7, but are definitely career limiting moves in the corporate world. The women who break the glass ceiling all seem to have traditional names - Cynthia Carroll, Wendy Lucas-Bull, Jane Raphaely, Pam Golding….coincidence?
Sarah, i actually agree with you and find it a bit common. I also think its just as bad as the some of the English speaking couples naming their kids “Apple” or “Storm” etc.
But i’m also wondering whether it would be PC to write an article about; “why black speakers choose such awful names for their kids?” I guess not..
In the 80s it was very fashionable behind the boereworsgordyn to combine the mother and father’s names. Juanita and Andre spawned an androgynously-named “Juandre”. Elisabet and Marius created a daughter named Marilise or Elisma.
It’s part of the farming (boer) tradition, where hybrids like pinotage and bonsmara abound also.
No need for some of the Afrikaners who commented on Sarah’s opinion piece to be so defensive and senstitive! I am Afrikaans and I had such a good laugh when reading it!!!
Thank God I am just Lisa, no fancy second names or anything! There are really some dodgy Afrikaner names floating around though. I must say they are worse than the previous generation’s.
I think my late Grandfather had a cool name: Abraham Jeremia Joachim Koekemoer!
Caught the tail-end of a story on talk radio a few days ago, and am undecided on whether it is real or a spoof story. Allegedly there is a storm brewing between the parents of a girl christened Li-Na (pronounced Lina” by her teachers) and not, as the idiot parents intended, “LeeDASHna”. I kid you not.
Two of my favourites came from one family. mother’s name is Heleen, so elder daughter was Helenique. To top off that abomination, the little girl, my daughter’s age, was named Blanche-Marie - which name my then little girl couldn’t pronounce and christened her Broccolli.
Don’t get touchy about this, folks. Just call your children something inoffensive and do them a favour!
I suppose you would rather be called Osthryth Clutterbuck or Horrace Winterbottom? As an Afrikaans person those names are far more horrible than Chrizette or Riette.
What about some african names… Innocent, Beauty, Wiseman, I once saw a “Matric Examsion”(sic), Two-Rand. Hillarious. I would rather have a unique name than be a “Wiseman”, or an “Innocent” in prison maybe.
Well by taking a quick pol, of respondants to Mg websites, I must conctlued, there are NO, Weired first names anywhere to be seen. Which leads me to believe, the weird combo- name penomeno may indeed reside in the lower/ middle calss echelons of the ill informed and unlikely to read the newpaper on line. In case you where wondering Brigitta, is the irish derevation of the name Bridgette as in Saint. And there are i am now aware worse things to be called. be nice to your kids people, give them sensible names.
What I’ve noticed with black people is that the more educated/financially well off they are the more they tend to give their children African names and not English names and if in the rare event it is an English name it’s not a direct translation of say a Zulu name. Nowadays I find the only Happy (Njabulo), Lucky(Nhlanhla), Freedom(Nkululeko)or Beauty (Sibahle) seem to be older people or less wealthy. I’m not sure what to make of it and I’m trying hard not to sound classist.
i think horked accents is definitely a south african thing. they were even using the wrong accent for clientèle life for the first couple years of commercials — and whenever they slipped up and put cherél de villiers haynes, uh, i mean, michelle botes, on my teevee, i would point this out to my son.
as far as african names, i can deal very easily with most african names, as they are often nouns or sentences. while i can get my c/x/q clicks right, i still can’t get the -hl- thing, so i often call guys called nhlanhla ‘lucky’ [the name means luck]. a friend of mine tried to tease me about my name, but i pointed out to him where i come from “glory” is a girl’s name, and he shuts up. [his name is luzuko].
i have yet to meet a boy called innocent [or a girl called innocentia] who wasn’t a total slut, though. it’s like the parents decided s/he was going to have loose morals in utero.
Sarah I can see that this article was probably born from your frustration of not being able to get the accent right because your keyboard doesn’t provide you the right caracters for Afrikaans names, as you mentioned.
But judging from the tone of your article I can see that your heading should not have been “why do afrikaans speakers make up such awful names” but rather “why do afrikaans PEOPLE make up such awful names”
Don’t want to sound over sensitive or something but many languages does that, including yours and I don’t see why you need to generalize it to Afrikaans speaking people.
Think about it for your next “awful names” article
This is another of those little social distance games that one plays with those who are almost, but not quite, identical to oneself.
One wouldn’t necessarily have quite the same fun talking about the Muwafaqs, the Belgian Piels, the Khunts around Europe or the German Schattens. One would also not find quite the same hilarity in Icelandic, Spanish or Chinese naming conventions. Heaven forbid that one should take the p out of a Xhosa or Zulu name (”Nongqawuse, hey…?”). They are all a little too distant, a little too powerful or a little too thin-skinned.
On the other hand, one would hesitate to make too much fun of the Clutterbucks, the Snodgrasses, the Smallbones or the Sidebottoms - and, by extension -of the Smallbone-Clutterbucks. They are of course a little too close - one would encounter them in one’s social circle - and one would feel a ittle adolescent doing it.
The folk across the way, who are probably equally socially powerful but who live in a slightly parallel universe, with their stupidly named houses (Linga Longa versus Komma Binne), servants, garden gnomes, lace curtains, naff social skills and their separate schools and churches, are however fair game.
Of course it makes sense for everybody to have established, well-known, unremarkable names. All boys should be named John, for example. All the girls should be named Jill. All others can be named Charley or Lesley. These are also nice and short and simple.
Think of the advantages: prospective parents will no longer have to agonise for days about a name for the little bundle of joy. Never again will you be embarrassed when you have forgotten someone’s name.
You can sing out: “John, how are you? Long time no see! And how is Jill?” This will work even if he has been divorced and remarried seven times.
Australia, that hotbed of innovation and forward thinking, has already pioneered this seductive concept with their “Bruce” and “Sheila”. The rest of the world still has to catch up, and no doubt the Afrikaners will be amongst the last to see the light.
@Johan: Innocent, Two-Rand and the like are not African names. Sifiso, Jabulani, Ntokozo and the like are African names and they have a meaning. They’re not improvisations. I’m glad my parents refused to give me or allow the white clerk at Home Affairs to pick an English or Afrikaans name for me simply bbecause he couldn’t pronounce namr.
@”brigs” - “the lower/ middle calss echelons of the ill informed and unlikely to read the newpaper on line” - My oh my, are you trying to say that the people responding here are usually intelligent and/or upper class (whatever that may mean) and/or well-informed??? You are flattering us (and yourself, or course) out of all proportion to reality. I don’t think the conclusion drawn from your pol (sic) will stand much scientific scrutiny.
But back to the main point of the article: I am Afrikaans, and I can assure you that the names listed do not all have the same social connotations. Riette, probably a shortened version of ouma’s name Henriette, is perfectly dignified and restrained; whereas obvious laslappies like, say, Chrisandra, can be a bit dubious. Anything with a hyphen is… playful. Diorette is plain ridiculous. And I personally am more forgiving of names that combine ouma’s two or even three names (Elizna probably combines Elizabeth Anna, for example) than mom and dad’s.
It’s always bothered me that Afrikaans girls’ names often end in dimunitive forms (-elle, -ette, -ike, -ie, etc) - much more often than boys’ names, for whom “nice, strong” names are preferred. Must be a legacy of our patriarchal system.
Spare a thought for me: my mother wanted to name me Elzabé - but ouma would have none of it. Now my most famous namesake is Mme Verwoerd. I would have preferred not to have THAT particular connotation hanging around my neck…
GEEEZ people, take a chill pill and take a swipe at yourselves. Afrikaaners are very inventive, that’s the point. They re-invented the wheel, if ET is to be believed!!!!
Sanette sounds a lot like “sanisette”, which in France is a self-clearning public toilet.
In the 80’s the couturier, André Courrèges called his daughter “Clafoutis”, which is a kind of cherry custard flan. I wonder how she’s doing these days?
The trend in France - in modest social circles -is also to move away from traditional names, so we have a lot of names like Kevin, Steevie, Théo, Enzo, Léo. However, in the snobbish classes, old names like Eudes, Thibault, and hypenated ones like Pierre-Jacques, Henri-Pierre, etc, are preferred.
Sarah, you do not like Afrikaners, do you? And people like blackbravo can’t even spell Afrikaners properly. I have 5 people working with me, each with the same sounding surname, pronounced the same but different spelling: Mokoena, Mokwena, Makwena, Makoena, Mokohena. And they are all MoSotho. As Sifiso said, the poor clerk eventually gave up on the spelling, and wrote what he heard.
I also collect ghastly names and my alltime favourite to date is ” Whycenthia”. The wraparounds on taxis are also a rich source with “Queen of the May” and “Repertoire” leading the pack to date.
This could be the start of something good Sarah… what about the next one on funny English names e.g. Snodgrass, Cockhead, Winterbottom, and the one after that on Indian names e.g. Chinsamy, Applesamy, Dorasamy… Lets go back to something descriptive of occupation, like Butcher, Baker, Programmer, Analyst, Stockbroker…
Africans oddly name their babies after household brands. Welcome Msomi was named after a coal-stove; Vinolia Meshego after a cake of soap.
But other African first names are just as funny: a journalist named Riot, a banker called Wiseman, a politician called Tokyo… what WERE their parents thinking?
The practice of inventing absurd names with accents in all the wrong places and combos of parents’ names is also very common in Cape Town on the Flats. I believe Cubans are also very fond of this.
I especially laugh at Riette because the parents are obviously trying to give their child a French sounding name, but if they did some research they would find that Riettes is a processed pork product. It’s very yummy to eat but makes a laughing stock of the name-holder in any French-speaker’s opinion.
The “riettes” you can eat are spelled “rillettes” (that’s French pronunciation for you)- what would be called “kaiings” in Afrikaans.
There must be lots of examples of names in one language being a homophone of something in another language. Just imagine what a child called Arsène would go through in an English environment!)
In defense of Riëtte on November 1st, 2009 at 8:32 am
It does seem that girls suffer more than boys though and a warning I would give to delighted parents of daughters is to beware of the mmiddle name initial not being a vowel. My sister’s initials are MAD and also some of the old names were totally cruel like Agatha and Agnes. My MIL was the former and an Aunt the latter and Aunt’s maiden intials were JAB. MIL was known to all as Mo which everyone thought was short for Moira but was actually short for Morrison. On the subject of names I have noticed since democracy that many many of our African VIP’s seem to have double barrelled surnames. Can someone enlighten me as to whether that is traditionally African and I’m just ignorant or is it simply also an affectation taken from colonial upperdust types?
I agree with Stewart. I would love to see you take a wack at Muslim and African names in this way without ending up near racist lawsuits. Afrikaans people seem to be the punchbag at the moment, maybe it’s because of apartheid (cliche) or maybe it’s the milktart. Who knows?
Ignorance on the other hand is something that can’t be blamed on anything. So I suggest you figure out how to make those accents on your laptop (it’s not rocketscience) before you take a wack at the easy target again.
Christina Da Silva on November 1st, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Once again we resort to the old Afrikaner-bashing again. I wonder why names of other nation’s people are not subject to the same spurn. Doesn’t Rolihlahla mean “troublemaker”? Or Nkosi mean leader/god? What about Mpho meaning “gift” or leaders with names such as Terror Lekota or Blade Nzimande?
I think names such as Shané, Anneri, Leoné are beautiful and have a creative touch to them. But then again, I guess I’m not English or parochial enough to see the beauty in Tom, Dick or Harry.
Another name common among the coloureds is the Welsh name Llewellyn. I’ve yet to come across a South African who can pronuonce it properly. The “ll” sound in Welsh is very similar to the African “hl” sound. However in the case of Llewellyn only the first “Ll” is pronounced this way and the second “ll” is pronounce as “l”.
I usually like your articles but to be brutally honest, this is easily the worst article I’ve read in ages! What’s your point? That you’re a snob and… that’s about it?
All this article proves is that you’re basically a condescending English speaker who dislikes names from another language simply because they’re dissimilar to names you’re familiar with?
I cannot imagine a world where everyone had a boring name like mine or yours but it would be great if people didn’t make assumptions about me purely based on my name alone. The fact that you so easily associate names with class is shockingly ignorant. I’m an English-speaking South African and I happen to like some of the creative Afrikaans names. It beats Candy, Cindy and Mandy any day of the week.
What about the English family down the road with the four boys named Hayden, Cayden, Ayden and Jayden? My favourite english surname must be Shuttlecock.
Another favorite (notice the American spelling of favourite, just to annoy you) is Woodcock. I mean, have you ever heard of an Afrikaner with a surname like Houtp!el?
Wow, people really got their knickers in the proverbial knot about this one. This is when I absolutely know I’m living in the wrong place. Talk about kneejerk reaction.
Peter, your comment isn’t without merit but this bit is interesting: ‘…who dislikes names from another language…’ That’s the whole crux of this matter. Hendrickarina isn’t a name in any language really… Sure, common usage of names that sound nice will eventually result in them becoming more commonly bestowed names but some of the extraordinarily unwieldy monikers handed out to some South African children, yes, particularly by Afrikaans parents, aren’t actually names…they’re creations. Like all creations, there are the artistic ones with general appeal and the just plain odd.
And if it marks Sarah out as a snob that she has the audacity to pass judgement on those that don’t meet her criteria when it comes to art versus utility then so be it. It’s amazing how pointlessly defensive people can be. Calling your child Charnel (accent or none) for example doesn’t go down too well in English. But does it matter? Doubtless not. Some people thrive in spite of (or possibly even because of) their odd names. Others just find them an unbelievable burden and change them.
But amazing, another sacred cow one can’t discuss in modern South Africa - naming trends. Who would have guessed? No wonder this country is just full of passive-aggressive people refusing to make conversation.
I have always marvelled at Afrikaner names. Whilst black Africans’ names have always had something to do with destiny, I have found Afrikaners’ names at times amusing, especially names of places.
Near Potchefstroom there is a farm called Muiskraal. I am not going to use space explaining what these names mean, but Jakkalsdans to the East of Pretoria should make you wonder what the namer of the place had in mind when giving such a name. Then there is Bokfontein somewhere in our rainbow land, the place of many goats?
My mother worked for an Afrikaner couple, the husband was called Bokkie and the wife had a weird name that I struggle to remember.
In the end a name is just but a name - it is preposterous to suggest they have a bearing on an individual’s position in society.
Without all these names, South Africa would not be such a wonderful place to live in.
Hey! I’ve just made something up, use it if you like.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet!
If you do use it, please reference my name as being the original author of this piece of wisdom. Plagiarist are everywhere these days of the internet.
My car doesn’t go Sipho when I hit the speedbump, so now I know my car isn’t Zulu. It goes Mpho. So my car is whatever that language is. Xhosa, perhaps? Sotho? All sounds the same to me.
Sarah - try holding in Alt and pressing the numbers 0232 or 0233 and magically è or é appears!!!
Just a little bit of help form a middle class white afrikaner whose name is made from Hendrik and Ria, and somehow evolved into a free thinking, ever learning, non discriminating human being. Something the Sarahs, Richards, Grants, Claires and other boring English speaking people of the “western” world still have to achieve.
Henri, that is without doubt the most useful comment here.
I’m sure we all know that Sarah isn’t the appalling snob she appears to be; she just knows how to get lots of comments on her blog.
I read somewhere that Tokyo was called such because he used to partake in karate.
Terror Lekota was called terror from his exploits on the soccer field.
@Henri,
And here’s little ole English speaking me who’s been suffering under that Henri was the French equivalent of Henry, or probably it is that Henry is the English equivalent of Henri.
Maybe that’s why Ollie le Roux was actually named Henry-Henri le Roux. Always baffled me a bit that one.
You must realise Henri that being as great as us English only speakers it is very hard to be humble. I really feel we are entitled to feel superior to those who have to go through life constantly learning new things.
Spot-on, Sarah! I wouldn’t restrict the phenomenon to Afrikaners, though. The best example I’ve come accross, is an invention by the American comedian Martin Lawrence, who once created a character named Chènéné. The pattern with Afrikaners is a neologism formed from parts of both the father’s and mother’s names, as in Charlaine, Jeandré etc. Amongst English-speaking South-Africans I’ve come across Gershawn, Brettleigh etc
Jeff - uhm…your argument is flawed, firstly, the ’superior’ english author of this piece does not know how to write an è or é on her keyboard, so either she’s still learning, or she’s not superior, but she cannot be superior or all knowing as you claim the English are.
Secondly, I would rather admit to always learning, always growing, than claim to be superior and all knowing, only to be proved a fool
@Henri,
It is very lower class to do your own typing. No doubt Sarah like all superior people has her own typist for such lowly work. As you must know it is very difficult to get good servants these days. Even my butler is not as good as the one that passed away in my service. It must be this dreadful notion of giving the lower classes an education instead of teaching them to know their place in the class hierarchy.
As for accents, French or otherwise, they have no place in the Queen’s English. Such continental influences played their part in the demise of our glorious Empire. Never trust a foreigner, they can’t speak English properly, so how can they be trusted.
So far you have not proved that I am a fool. As for alt 0232 and alt 0233 I have instructed my typist never to use those combinations of keys under any circumstances, on pain of instant dismissal. Damn these foreign upstarts. Her Majesty should have them put in front of the Court of Star Chamber, tortured and beheaded. Put them in their place.
@Botha,
Thank you old chap; if it wasn’t for your name I would assume you were English. Actually I’m Welsh, even though I can’t speak the language (Cymraeg).
I assume Sarah also had her tongue in her cheek. I mean, who cares what people name their kids. It’s how they bring them up that matters. Also it doesn’t matter what language they speak, as long as they are proud of their home language and their culture, and respect the same in others. Also have the common decency not to insult other people because of their given name. What would one make of the Welsh girl’s name Angharad? To me it sounds beautiful, to someone not familiar with Cymraeg it may sound dreadful.
@Henri
“What’s in a name”?
That’s the start of the line I quoted earlier from Shakespeare, Henri. You know of him? He also wrote another famous play, “Henri V”.
I think the responses above is quite funny. The article obviously did what is was supposed to, that being to invoke debate. This is what the thoughtleader forum is for, not true?
To add on about silly Afrikaner names, try living in Australia with a name like Japie, Koos, Fanus, Danie etc etc.
Not to speak of the archaic names like Stephanus, Petrus, Gerhardus, Hermanus.
Well “God’s Peace” (a favourite in the 1940’s)doesn’t seem to suit you, so you might actually have a leg to stand on when you imply that a name has no relevance with reality, otherwise your name surely would’ve been Klavdia…..
South Africa is the Mecca of colourful names. I once saw an ID with the real name Captain Morgan.
In Afrikaans culture, those odd names are usually a combination of the mother and father’s names. (For example, Ben-Marie. I shit you not. That’s a real name).
To me, it is worse when Afrikaans people get married and suddenly gain hyphenated surnames. To further complicate matters, it’s usually only the wife who gets the hyphenated surname. Yes, we like our hyphens and other exotic squiggles.
I guess we should name our children after famous historical figures. This way, they’d be predestined for greatness. Take Julius for example. Oh wait, bad example.
I’m not sure that the names are good indicators of class. More like good indicators of lack of class.
Garg, howcome you claim only afrikaans people get hyphonated surnames, for one, Jenny Crwis-Williams, can hardly speak a word of afrikaans, and I can give you countless examples, so stop claiming sh!t you obviously have no proof off.
I think the article is condescending towards Afrikaans speaking people. Sarah, you must however be a Gautie, as Afrikaans speaking people in the Western Cape, do include just as many “coloured” speakers. They do give their children “typical” names such as ‘Beoynce, Britney, Brandon-Lee, Sasha-Lee, etc.’
Sarah, Jeff, Grant - don’t worry about your common names - here in the flats you are just called “soutpiel”, but don’t be offended, it’s just our upper class way of speaking…
Gee Garg,
England is full of people with hyphenated surnames.
@Henri,
Crwys-Williams. If she isn’t Welsh, the hyphenated surname is of Welsh origin in this instance. Crwys is Welsh for Cross and Williams is an exceedingly common surname in Wales.
Firstly, I did not claim that only Afrikaans people have hyphenated surnames. My claim was that when Afrikaans people hyphenate their surnames, it’s usually only the bride and it gets a little confusing. It’s thus not the same case as accepting a hyphenated surname finish en klaar. Only one of the spouse takes the hyphenated surname. Does this happen in Ireland and Wales too?
Secondly I am Afrikaans and because I know we aren’t a bunch of pansies, we can take it if Sarah happens to think our names suck. Sarah was not condescending towards Afrikaners. She merely said some of our names are low class. Big deal. I’m not the kind of Afrikaners who go and cry to mommy when someone calls my names names. Kaalvoet oor die Drakensberg and all that.
That’s it. I’m changing my name. Sarah SoutPiel Crwcifixion. Thanks goodness my parents gave me a nice short name like darkwing. I do get called ‘darkie’ from time to time, but I’m proud of that.
@Hard-Man Garg,
Must say it seems strange that only female spouse takes hyphen. Maybe it’s because the male takes the hymen on the marriage night. (I’m old-fashioned, OK).
I think it’s always healthy when a nation can take a bit of stick in a friendly sort of way, it’s a sign of a healthy more mature nationalism.
The Celts and the Anglo-Saxons are at it all the time in the UK.
Pride in one’s nationality is fine but too much and we end up with xenophobia and possibly genocide.
That would be such a good point Henri. Except that Michelle Garforth is an English bird. Oh, and Michelle is not an amalgamation of her daddy’s and mommy’s names. Unless her dad were Michael and her mom were Chelle?
Very witty, Jeff! I agree. It’s good to be able to laugh at yourself. The fact that Sarah is in Australia and still writing about Afrikaners means we must’ve left an impression.
@Blip,
I can’t think of an equivalent sound in English to the Welsh “crwys”. The “wy” make up one sound, something similar to the Afrikaans “ui” in “luis” or “huis”, near, but not quite the same.
Unfortunately some Welsh people, especially those from the Cardiff area, also can’t pronounce it and it comes out as “croo-iss”. Shocking!
uhm-garg,the point being, Riaan IS afrikaans, so your statement of only afrikaans birds taking the man’s surname is irrelevant.All of you generalize so badly about afrikaans people, it’s terrible.
It’s like saying ALL afrikaners are racist, or ALL black people are uneducated, or ALL english people are narrow minded (although that might be a fact),stop generalizing people, everyone is entitled to call their children what they want, whether you like it or not!!
How’s about Sarah writes an article with the title: Why do English speakers write such narrow minded awful tripe?
Gosh i missed this funny debate. Sarah, you are absolutely hilaious. Some Afrikaans names are just so funny. Remember Afrikaans is kitchen Dutch and even the Dutch think it’s a sort of baby-language (no offence-really).
But I think some Jewish (read;not Hebrew) names are funny. Think Helen Zille’s father; Wolfgang (who names their child Wolfgang) or some complicated German surnames (like: HeidKruger, Bockhaus etc). I think Eugene Terreblanche’s parents were very clever in naming him. Imagine if they had called him, I don;t know, ‘Petrus’ or something.After all, he does see himself as a messenger of God.
What about Shoprite CEO: Whitey. I wonder why any loving parent wouold name their child ‘whitey’.
@Henri,
The English are narrow-minded? Now that the Afrikaners have got over having stars hiding womens’ nipples you think you are not narrow-minded. Of course you’ve now also got your first Afrikaner porno movie, imaginatively named “Kwaai naai”. Such worldliness is too be admired. Do they still quake in their shoes when the dominee comes round for tea?
Jeff - Have you not read the comments (and article) from english people thinking they are the sh!t and “other” people’s names are funny??? The world is made up of different cultures to their own, and that is hilarious???
The afrikaners I know are definately more open minded than any of the english responses here!
@Jeff: Blanket is such a lovely, adorable name for that sweet child! Michael Jackson was very affectionate and his children were obviously a great comfort to him. But I think it was silly to name a child “Prince”. That’s just… I don’t know… unfair to the poor child!
After all is said and done: Chrizette is the tackiest tag you can put on a baby. I think it is mostly working class (or new money) Afrikaaans people who give their children names like that. (Old)Middle-class and educated Afrikaners usually give their children French/German names.
Some English names that African people have are interesting: e-tv news reporter is “Goodenough Mashego”. One of my husband’s clients has a very beautiful African name. The other day my husband saw a copy of his ID and his English name is Nervous. My husband couldn’t help laughing and the guy smiled “nervously” and said he would change it, only that it is very stressful to go to Home Affairs. It’s better to just go through lie making sure that few people know his name.
You think Afrikaners have a monopoly on stupid hyphenated surnames? I knew of one person with a triple-barreled surname. She had a hyphenated surname when she was single, then added a hyphen and her new husbands surname to her double-barreled surname.
Went onto Wikipedia and found this:
A few upper-class families (e.g. Anstruther-Gough-Calthorpe; Cave-Browne-Cave; Elliot-Murray-Kynynmound; Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby; Vane-Tempest-Stewart) have “triple-barrelled” surnames (sometimes created when one spouse has a double-barrelled name and the other has a single surname). Nowadays, such names are almost always abbreviated in everyday use to a single or double-barrelled version. There are even a few “quadruple-barrelled” surnames (e.g. Montagu-Stuart-Wortley-Mackenzie, Hepburn-Stuart-Forbes-Trefusis, Stirling-Home-Drummond-Moray; Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax) and the surname of the extinct family of the Dukes of Buckingham and Chandos was the quintuple-barrelled Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville. Captain Leone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudatifilius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache is sometimes quoted as the man with the most ever “barrels” in his surname (six), but in fact all but the last two of these (Tollemache-Tollemache) were forenames.
Eat your heart out Henri!
@Phillipa,
Blanket may possibly be an OK name for a kid. I have my doubts. This poor child has to grow up and deal with other kids, who can be pretty nasty to eacn other over such things as a silly name. God help the poor creature when the child gets to adulthood with a name like Blanket. Wet-Blanket, dog-Blanket, horse-Blanket. Should have named the child Phillip, or Phillipa, much safer.
Incidentally, Goethe’s mother phoned me, Mozart’s mom had SMS’d her to tell her of your criticism of the name Wolfgang. She wants to know what is wrong with the name Wolfgang? She said rather Wolfgang von Goethe than Blanket von Goethe.
@Henri,
The article wasn’t meant to be hilarious. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment about Afrikans names to stir up some response. She succeeded.
Taking a bit of a dig at a name in another culture in order to stir up a response is hardly being narrow-minded.
There is no need to be so defensive of your Afrikans culture. Ride with the punches, go with the flow, it will show a sign of cultural maturity. You will show that your culture is strong enough to withstand the “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”, to quote that man again.
To be so defensive shows a lack of self-esteem and a lack of a sense of humour.
Maybe English humour is too subtle for you?
There’s no need to be defensive. All cultures have their good and bad points, including English culture. Whatever that is.
Being Afrikaans myself, I fully agree with Sarah. I don’t see her article as been slanderess towards Afrikaans speaking people. She is merely pointing out the simple mindedness of some Afrikaans folk in combining the parents’ names when choosing a name for their child. I truely hate it, e.g. the name Grezelba. There are enough attractive names to choose from. Yes I agree there are horrific boy/girl names going around these days amongst all nationalities, but she was referring to one specific group. I don’t mind her writing about it, as it’s been annoying me for sometime as well. In general, I think people are bored and trying to be different, in so doing, they’re all just the same, i.e. done in bad taste. Nothing wrong with a neutral name that can be pronounced in all languages, without sounding like you’re from Mars! What’s in a name - everything! Your dignity and whether people will take you serious one day as an adult. My childrens’ names were carefully chosen as not to load them with a heavy burden one day, they have enough challenges in life ahead of them!
Finally some sense from Jeff - Thank you. You have just proven the point I was trying to make. All cultures have “funny” names to other cultures. I tried to make this point when Phillipa butted in, but got a bit worked up and both my posts were deleted.
Sarah and Philipa are carved from the same narrow minded branch and I doubt that they realize that Lipinski and Britten are freakin hilarious surnames from my point of view!!
English humour is about taking the piss with other pepole. Afrikaans humour is about taking the piss with yourself. This is why Nataniel is so popular - and was popular even during the 80s - we didn’t know he’s for real!
@Henri,
Actually I’ve spoken sense all along, it’s just that you never got the message behind my words. Botha got it immediately.
There was a boy in my street back in Wales whose name was Philip Philips. Known to all as Phil-Phil. What were his parents thinking?
Sense of humour can be a funny(Ha Ha, or Uh oh!) thing. One person’s sense of humour can be very offensive to another person at many levels. Try making a joke or cartoon about Mohammed the muslim prophet and see how many laughs, or bombs come your way. As one Iranian cleric put it “There is no fun in Islam” and yet they are a laugh a minute to me with their ridiculous medieval ways.
No you haven’t Jeff, you make up sh!t like “Must say it seems strange that only female spouse takes hyphen” which is an absurd statement with no facts whatsoever!! SO, Jeff and sense, should never be used in the same sentence.
I actually have a great sense of humour and find hordes of afrikaans names funny, as stated, even my name is made up of combining two parents’ names, but to claim it’s only afrikaans people smacks of stupidity. Then people from other cultures, with hilarious names themselves butt in and make afrikaners out to be simple minded beings, meanwhile, their own culture and names are hilarious,
All I am saying is, stop focusing on “them” and pointing and laughing when you are so blinded with your blinkers on, that you don’t even realise your own culture and names are hilarious (and even stupid) to others too!!
Jeff: Phillipa is probably the best name in the world, next to Katia (my three-year-old).
Jeff, on the other hand is not too bad but your parents could have done better. I know someone whose first name was Jeffrey, but he prefered to go by his middle name, George-which is worse, unless you have fantasies of becoming a monarch or, (more realistically) a butler. But, better George than Jeff.
Sure, because Mozart’s name is Wolfgang, that name may be considered to have some, I don’t know, Avant Garde quality but it is just such a terrible name. I know that Zille likes Beethoven (possibly her father liked the musician). Who doesn’t admire Mozart, Beethoven or Stravinsky? That doesn’t mean you should go off and name your child Igor! Really now.
Henri: Why are you so angry. And who said that Afrikaners are “simple-minded” beings? Nobody said that, only that some of them have such tacky, silly, funny and over-the-top names. On the one hand it shows that Afrikaners are very creative but essentially they (especiall working-class Afrikaners) name their children funny! Oh, and some of the music by Afrikaans pop singers really hurts my ears.
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Sarah Britten has written three books on South African insults. During the day she is a communication strategist in the ad industry; by night she writes books and blog entries. It helps to have insomnia.
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