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	<title>Comments on: In search of a South African identity</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/</link>
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		<title>By: Global Voices dalam bahasa Indonesia &#187; Afrika Selatan: Mencari Persamaan Di Tengah “Perang Ras”</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-127218</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices dalam bahasa Indonesia &#187; Afrika Selatan: Mencari Persamaan Di Tengah “Perang Ras”</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-127218</guid>
		<description>[...] tampaknya warga Afrika Selatan letih dengan label dan benar-benar ingin mencapai suatu persamaan. Ryland Fisher  menerangkan perasaan mereka: Bahkan, saya kagum ketika saya bepergian ke luar negeri dan kami semua [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tampaknya warga Afrika Selatan letih dengan label dan benar-benar ingin mencapai suatu persamaan. Ryland Fisher  menerangkan perasaan mereka: Bahkan, saya kagum ketika saya bepergian ke luar negeri dan kami semua [...]</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-102453</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-102453</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by mgthoughtleader: In search of a South African identity http://tinyurl.com/ybp3aeg...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by mgthoughtleader: In search of a South African identity <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ybp3aeg.." rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ybp3aeg..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Patric Tariq Mellet</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-97523</link>
		<dc:creator>Patric Tariq Mellet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-97523</guid>
		<description>Ryland Fisher opens up the discourse on identity in a refreshingly non-dogmatic manner. I have some points of convergence with what was said and some of divergence. In terms of the latter I do not think the problems that we have are about words such as ‘African’ or expression of national group sub-cultures, even although I agree that many abuse an array of words dangerously as weapons. Using identity as a political weapon is an extremely dangerous path to tread. Likewise, using notions of identity to create hierarchies of rights in national life establishes a fatal flaw in our quest to build a nation that will never again entertain anything remotely like Apartheid.

....I believe it would serve better to focus discussion on de-racialising our national state- endorsed race-based frameworks, rather than to attempt to socially engineer cultural diversity out of our lives and vocabulary.... 
...On the one side there was the elevation of race and ethnicity as the cornerstone of identity and as a determinant of human relations, social constructs and destiny. On the other side is the notion that sub-cultures and identities are undesirable and backward, and should be suppressed in favour of us being simply South Africans.
Thankfully in our constitution we rejected both of the kragdadig  ideological approaches which lead to social-engineering, in favour of a South African identity that recognises our goal of national unity that nurtures and celebrates diversity. READ MORE @ www.cape-slavery-heritage.iblog.co.za</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryland Fisher opens up the discourse on identity in a refreshingly non-dogmatic manner. I have some points of convergence with what was said and some of divergence. In terms of the latter I do not think the problems that we have are about words such as ‘African’ or expression of national group sub-cultures, even although I agree that many abuse an array of words dangerously as weapons. Using identity as a political weapon is an extremely dangerous path to tread. Likewise, using notions of identity to create hierarchies of rights in national life establishes a fatal flaw in our quest to build a nation that will never again entertain anything remotely like Apartheid.</p>
<p>&#8230;.I believe it would serve better to focus discussion on de-racialising our national state- endorsed race-based frameworks, rather than to attempt to socially engineer cultural diversity out of our lives and vocabulary&#8230;.<br />
&#8230;On the one side there was the elevation of race and ethnicity as the cornerstone of identity and as a determinant of human relations, social constructs and destiny. On the other side is the notion that sub-cultures and identities are undesirable and backward, and should be suppressed in favour of us being simply South Africans.<br />
Thankfully in our constitution we rejected both of the kragdadig  ideological approaches which lead to social-engineering, in favour of a South African identity that recognises our goal of national unity that nurtures and celebrates diversity. READ MORE @ <a href="http://www.cape-slavery-heritage.iblog.co.za" rel="nofollow">http://www.cape-slavery-heritage.iblog.co.za</a></p>
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		<title>By: ProudlyColoured</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-97445</link>
		<dc:creator>ProudlyColoured</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-97445</guid>
		<description>when all people in south africa and the world become mixed-race a.k.a coloured this wont be an issue</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when all people in south africa and the world become mixed-race a.k.a coloured this wont be an issue</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96615</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96615</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that the very European-ness that was the greatest asset to whites under apartheid,  has now become the albatross that they are suddenly trying to shed. I&#039;m no doctor, but I&#039;ll wager that this is the primary cause of the severe amnesia of centuries of white AA, that has now afflicted so many white SAns. We gotta respect the Afrikaners for being brave enough to stick to their Afrikaner identity. Maybe the others will learn from this courage.

Racial categorizations will only disappear once our society reaches a point of stabilization where there is natural intermixing among races - after our apartheid indoctrination wears off and we accept each other as human beings from the same species and tolerant to diversity in all its forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that the very European-ness that was the greatest asset to whites under apartheid,  has now become the albatross that they are suddenly trying to shed. I&#8217;m no doctor, but I&#8217;ll wager that this is the primary cause of the severe amnesia of centuries of white AA, that has now afflicted so many white SAns. We gotta respect the Afrikaners for being brave enough to stick to their Afrikaner identity. Maybe the others will learn from this courage.</p>
<p>Racial categorizations will only disappear once our society reaches a point of stabilization where there is natural intermixing among races &#8211; after our apartheid indoctrination wears off and we accept each other as human beings from the same species and tolerant to diversity in all its forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Kazi</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96595</link>
		<dc:creator>Kazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96595</guid>
		<description>Mzungu 

That is what we need loss of denial and control and rather to celebrate what resonates with with our heritage whatever we decided that heritage to be. We often fight off exterior stereotypying (by others) yet we are the first to put ourselves in a box. Let the South African identity evolve, it is still too early to talk about nationalism in the South African context. We can start this debate once there is good governance and a better, healthy and stable welfare system. It&#039;s only a shortcut if try to hide behind a South African identity that is still embryonic and now is the time that we will see who is pro-life on the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mzungu </p>
<p>That is what we need loss of denial and control and rather to celebrate what resonates with with our heritage whatever we decided that heritage to be. We often fight off exterior stereotypying (by others) yet we are the first to put ourselves in a box. Let the South African identity evolve, it is still too early to talk about nationalism in the South African context. We can start this debate once there is good governance and a better, healthy and stable welfare system. It&#8217;s only a shortcut if try to hide behind a South African identity that is still embryonic and now is the time that we will see who is pro-life on the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: donald</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96563</link>
		<dc:creator>donald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96563</guid>
		<description>HI Noko
I never benefitted from Apartheid.I lived with many family on a Sugar Estate-Cornubia near Mt Edgecombe.My parents earned slave wages and we had precious little to keep body and soul together.The school I attended was stae aided and was no better that black or coloured schools. If we were given any books these I shared with my black frien Titus.

So you see I probably had less than you. But still I don&#039;t want you to compensate me now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Noko<br />
I never benefitted from Apartheid.I lived with many family on a Sugar Estate-Cornubia near Mt Edgecombe.My parents earned slave wages and we had precious little to keep body and soul together.The school I attended was stae aided and was no better that black or coloured schools. If we were given any books these I shared with my black frien Titus.</p>
<p>So you see I probably had less than you. But still I don&#8217;t want you to compensate me now.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessop Sutton</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessop Sutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96535</guid>
		<description>Okay -- I&#039;m white, I&#039;m English, &#039;I&#039;m Jewish, I&#039;m Natalian, I&#039;m South African, I&#039;m African, So now I am out if here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay &#8212; I&#8217;m white, I&#8217;m English, &#8216;I&#8217;m Jewish, I&#8217;m Natalian, I&#8217;m South African, I&#8217;m African, So now I am out if here!</p>
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		<title>By: Mzungu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96532</link>
		<dc:creator>Mzungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96532</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good debate - I was quite frustrated a while back with M&amp;G&#039;s use of the word African and am glad that the topic is raised.

It seems to me that there is a lot more at stake for blacks, concerns about AA, BEE, land reforms, etc., while for us whities it is more of a emotional thing of being politically and socially marginalized and feeling like a stranger in your own country and continent. I have sympathy for both arguments.

When I was in Kenya I found it rewarding to explain to my friends there that my parents and grandparents, up to how many generations back I don&#039;t even know, were all born in South Africa. Yet walking around in the streets of Kenya with not another white face in sight and being called Mzungu (white man) by the children, I was very aware of and comfortable with my white-Africanness.

I don&#039;t mind complex identities. When I visited Europe, something resonated with my own identity, as I suppose Africa does with African-Americans. Complex identities keep us historically aware. 

I disagree with all the whities who want to keep the past in the past. And I disagree with the blacks who reject a common South African identity. If I must be a European-South-African, I am okay with it, as long as I am recognized as being part of this country - part of the problem and part of the solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good debate &#8211; I was quite frustrated a while back with M&amp;G&#8217;s use of the word African and am glad that the topic is raised.</p>
<p>It seems to me that there is a lot more at stake for blacks, concerns about AA, BEE, land reforms, etc., while for us whities it is more of a emotional thing of being politically and socially marginalized and feeling like a stranger in your own country and continent. I have sympathy for both arguments.</p>
<p>When I was in Kenya I found it rewarding to explain to my friends there that my parents and grandparents, up to how many generations back I don&#8217;t even know, were all born in South Africa. Yet walking around in the streets of Kenya with not another white face in sight and being called Mzungu (white man) by the children, I was very aware of and comfortable with my white-Africanness.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind complex identities. When I visited Europe, something resonated with my own identity, as I suppose Africa does with African-Americans. Complex identities keep us historically aware. </p>
<p>I disagree with all the whities who want to keep the past in the past. And I disagree with the blacks who reject a common South African identity. If I must be a European-South-African, I am okay with it, as long as I am recognized as being part of this country &#8211; part of the problem and part of the solution.</p>
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		<title>By: donald</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/comment-page-2/#comment-96517</link>
		<dc:creator>donald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/06/in-search-of-a-south-african-identity/#comment-96517</guid>
		<description>Lets just cut to the chase.Race has no real value in the 21st Century.People are now educated and are less ignorant.We in SA are blessed with the kind of cultural mix and diverse population.

To move away from any race issues its best we simplify the classification of people to : all people born in SA are South Africans-whether born during,before or after APARTHEID.The way people talk,walk,look.interact,eat etc just makes them interesting.

Now if only those WHITE people in Balito can respect all S Africans as people,not walk around as if being white is being above everybody else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets just cut to the chase.Race has no real value in the 21st Century.People are now educated and are less ignorant.We in SA are blessed with the kind of cultural mix and diverse population.</p>
<p>To move away from any race issues its best we simplify the classification of people to : all people born in SA are South Africans-whether born during,before or after APARTHEID.The way people talk,walk,look.interact,eat etc just makes them interesting.</p>
<p>Now if only those WHITE people in Balito can respect all S Africans as people,not walk around as if being white is being above everybody else.</p>
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