Comments on: …And the very real abuse of men by women? http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/ Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:03:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Robard http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-112020 Robard Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:47:54 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-112020 Rod, I would agree with Tricia that the world over females probably suffer more from abuse at the hands of men than the other way round. But with reference to the situation in the monogamous western world, which is what I think you had in mind with this article, the picture is much more nuanced. If anything, womankind never had it as good as today's western woman - and all thanks to the labour saving ingenuity (washing machines, vacuum cleaners) and kindness of western man. Rod,

I would agree with Tricia that the world over females probably suffer more from abuse at the hands of men than the other way round. But with reference to the situation in the monogamous western world, which is what I think you had in mind with this article, the picture is much more nuanced. If anything, womankind never had it as good as today’s western woman - and all thanks to the labour saving ingenuity (washing machines, vacuum cleaners) and kindness of western man.

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]]> By: X Cepting http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-112001 X Cepting Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:39:00 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-112001 @Tricia - You mentioned character. Would it not be much easier and also more correct to dispense with the labelling by sex and to admit that certain personality types are really what does the damage. So you were born female, so Rod was born male. Does that immediately make you a certain type of person and him another? Let's use the label: people or person. I have known many ruthless ones, I have known as many caring ones, they were of both sexes. It is a fairly accurate generalisation that opposites will attract (At least I have found this to be the case). That means in any relationship one partner will give and the other will take. One will get hurt the other walk away without a scratch. Life's a bitch. Perhaps partnerships are also about teaching and learning about give and take and how to choose a good lawyer. @Tricia - You mentioned character. Would it not be much easier and also more correct to dispense with the labelling by sex and to admit that certain personality types are really what does the damage. So you were born female, so Rod was born male. Does that immediately make you a certain type of person and him another? Let’s use the label: people or person. I have known many ruthless ones, I have known as many caring ones, they were of both sexes. It is a fairly accurate generalisation that opposites will attract (At least I have found this to be the case). That means in any relationship one partner will give and the other will take. One will get hurt the other walk away without a scratch. Life’s a bitch. Perhaps partnerships are also about teaching and learning about give and take and how to choose a good lawyer.

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]]> By: Rosalie Kroot http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111971 Rosalie Kroot Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:29:18 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111971 I married for the second time at age 26. After 35 years of marriage, 10 years ago my husband suffered a stroke and passed away, leaving our grown up children and me absolutely devastated. Just a few years into our marriage when we acquired our first home, he had requested that I please try and mow the lawn. We sat down and evaluated our position as a couple. We had three children. I did the lifting, ran the house and did the cooking so it was agreed that I attend to all things inside the house and he attend to the garden, the pool, the sauna and all things outside the house. My mother had told me in my youth, “never provoke your husband, listen to him, agree with him and do what you want to do anyway and he won’t be any the wiser” and that worked very well for me. Today I am 71 and live comfortably off the substantial fruits of our marriage, with no intention of ever having a man in my life again. Neither of my two husbands beat me and I certainly never laid a hand on them. I have three wonderful children and four grandchildren who have me in their lives together with their mates and three grand-dogs too. What more can I wish for? One thing I did not do and never will do is sit around coffee shops – that can only lead to trouble………… Nome de Plume: Rosa I married for the second time at age 26. After 35 years of marriage, 10 years ago my husband suffered a stroke and passed away, leaving our grown up children and me absolutely devastated. Just a few years into our marriage when we acquired our first home, he had requested that I please try and mow the lawn. We sat down and evaluated our position as a couple. We had three children. I did the lifting, ran the house and did the cooking so it was agreed that I attend to all things inside the house and he attend to the garden, the pool, the sauna and all things outside the house.

My mother had told me in my youth, “never provoke your husband, listen to him, agree with him and do what you want to do anyway and he won’t be any the wiser” and that worked very well for me. Today I am 71 and live comfortably off the substantial fruits of our marriage, with no intention of ever having a man in my life again.

Neither of my two husbands beat me and I certainly never laid a hand on them. I have three wonderful children and four grandchildren who have me in their lives together with their mates and three grand-dogs too. What more can I wish for?

One thing I did not do and never will do is sit around coffee shops – that can only lead to trouble…………

Nome de Plume: Rosa

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]]> By: Rod MacKenzie http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111933 Rod MacKenzie Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:23:17 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111933 MLH - superb argument, agreed, and sure, I had your thoughts already in my mind while I was writing this piece and considered using them in my blog but heck it was getting rather long as more than one commentator has rightly said. The parent who looks after the children while the other works and brings home the bacon is also doing her/his fair share. On the bitch/bastard comparison... I was not comparing, my next word was "dog" which is the same as bitch, a reference to the man. Yuk, ugly words in their societal context, hey? I think we need to completely rethink the way we do society, and these blogs, all the media attention and Christi's stuff are hopefully opening up that possibility says idealistic me.That is one thing I love about some forms of feminism, they are hopefully opening up the possibility of an entirely different way of doing society. I really dont think the nuclear family structure works... anymore. Surely the divorce stats reflect that. MLH - superb argument, agreed, and sure, I had your thoughts already in my mind while I was writing this piece and considered using them in my blog but heck it was getting rather long as more than one commentator has rightly said. The parent who looks after the children while the other works and brings home the bacon is also doing her/his fair share. On the bitch/bastard comparison… I was not comparing, my next word was “dog” which is the same as bitch, a reference to the man. Yuk, ugly words in their societal context, hey?

I think we need to completely rethink the way we do society, and these blogs, all the media attention and Christi’s stuff are hopefully opening up that possibility says idealistic me.That is one thing I love about some forms of feminism, they are hopefully opening up the possibility of an entirely different way of doing society. I really dont think the nuclear family structure works… anymore. Surely the divorce stats reflect that.

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]]> By: Rod MacKenzie http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111925 Rod MacKenzie Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:45:30 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111925 Hi Robard , I found you comments/statistics on Feb 13 at 9:28 PM most interesting and something I would like to read more about, a sort of unspoken history. However, perhaps you would like to take this up with Tricia who has also commented twice on this thread? She seems in ways entirely opposed to what you have to say. She feels I am patronising and that I am rapping her over the knuckles; I am not. (I found it fascinating how one can get misunderstood. It just seems fundamental to the human condition that we desire t be understood.) This blog was about the abuse of men and therefore as it does not focus on the very real abuse of women it is vulnerable to Tricia's interpretation/misconstrual as being biased/skewed. Robard, meet Tricia..Tricia meet Robard. Hi Robard , I found you comments/statistics on Feb 13 at 9:28 PM most interesting and something I would like to read more about, a sort of unspoken history. However, perhaps you would like to take this up with Tricia who has also commented twice on this thread? She seems in ways entirely opposed to what you have to say. She feels I am patronising and that I am rapping her over the knuckles; I am not. (I found it fascinating how one can get misunderstood. It just seems fundamental to the human condition that we desire t be understood.)

This blog was about the abuse of men and therefore as it does not focus on the very real abuse of women it is vulnerable to Tricia’s interpretation/misconstrual as being biased/skewed.

Robard, meet Tricia..Tricia meet Robard.

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]]> By: Peace In Our Time http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111915 Peace In Our Time Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:11:15 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111915 This was slightly longer than average I think Rod but I felt what you were saying worth reading. Sexism is as rife today as it was in Genesis and yes I would agree that women can be far more vicious and abusive in a relationship because they go for the weakest point in a mao obtain revenge, They use their emotional armory and if you are married to a smart woman and you reject her charms for whatever reason she will look for the best way to make you feel the same pain she is contending with. If it is your career or finances which will hurt you the most then that is where she is going to hurt you. If it is your children she will use them. When my turn came I knew that it takes two to make a relationship work and I had three sons and a husband who was an amazing father and human being in general. I drew up a list of the pro's and cons and then I set about finding where my power lay and made a decision based on what would be best for all of us. He had had an affair but I had been too clingy. I toughened up took him back and gave back all his privileges. It took 4 hard years, the departure of the other woman and I never ever used the affair against him or raised it again. Mutual resposibility and respect and communication vital This was slightly longer than average I think Rod but I felt what you were saying worth reading. Sexism is as rife today as it was in Genesis and yes I would agree that women can be far more vicious and abusive in a relationship because they go for the weakest point in a mao obtain revenge, They use their emotional armory and if you are married to a smart woman and you reject her charms for whatever reason she will look for the best way to make you feel the same pain she is contending with. If it is your career or finances which will hurt you the most then that is where she is going to hurt you. If it is your children she will use them. When my turn came I knew that it takes two to make a relationship work and I had three sons and a husband who was an amazing father and human being in general. I drew up a list of the pro’s and cons and then I set about finding where my power lay and made a decision based on what would be best for all of us. He had had an affair but I had been too clingy. I toughened up took him back and gave back all his privileges. It took 4 hard years, the departure of the other woman and I never ever used the affair against him or raised it again. Mutual resposibility and respect and communication vital

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]]> By: Robard http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111905 Robard Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:48:13 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111905 Rod, what is the evidence for your contention that "women definitely get abused more than men”. See my post above at February 13th, 2010 at 9:28 am Rod, what is the evidence for your contention that “women definitely get abused more than men”. See my post above at February 13th, 2010 at 9:28 am

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]]> By: Tricia http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111901 Tricia Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:24:36 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111901 Hi Rod, I read your article carefully and I hadn't missed the part you mention. But thanks for resorting to teacher-mode and rapping me over the knuckles with a ruler, however I'm not one of your primary school scholars. Acknowledging that "many women are abused..." etc is a poor attempt at balancing the content of the article and the only way to further this discussion with you would be to get into a schoolyard contest about which gender is/was more abused, which is a bit mad in my view. I agree that there are vicious, grasping women out there that inflict pain and suffering on men (and probably on other women too because that's the nature of their character) but the actions of that small group do not mitigate centuries of male violence (over or covert) against women. Hi Rod, I read your article carefully and I hadn’t missed the part you mention. But thanks for resorting to teacher-mode and rapping me over the knuckles with a ruler, however I’m not one of your primary school scholars.

Acknowledging that “many women are abused…” etc is a poor attempt at balancing the content of the article and the only way to further this discussion with you would be to get into a schoolyard contest about which gender is/was more abused, which is a bit mad in my view.

I agree that there are vicious, grasping women out there that inflict pain and suffering on men (and probably on other women too because that’s the nature of their character) but the actions of that small group do not mitigate centuries of male violence (over or covert) against women.

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]]> By: MLH http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111898 MLH Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:13:13 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111898 Rod, there is no comparison between 'bitch' and 'bastard'. Their meanings are totally different. 'Bastard' reflects on the parents; 'bitch' reflects on the woman. As a woman, I would warn any man against a woman wronged and hell's fury, but swap the genders and the same happens just as often. I am repeatedly reminded that women tend to see marriage as a free ride. They debate whether to give up work and look after the kids; their husbands join in. Our society demands far more of society to ensure that marriages are made, kept or broken on equal footings. There is never any equality when children are part of the equation. The parent who takes the kids does more for them and puts more money into them, most of the time and I seldom meet ex-partners who do their bit, unless money is not significant. Rod, there is no comparison between ‘bitch’ and ‘bastard’. Their meanings are totally different. ‘Bastard’ reflects on the parents; ‘bitch’ reflects on the woman.

As a woman, I would warn any man against a woman wronged and hell’s fury, but swap the genders and the same happens just as often.

I am repeatedly reminded that women tend to see marriage as a free ride. They debate whether to give up work and look after the kids; their husbands join in.

Our society demands far more of society to ensure that marriages are made, kept or broken on equal footings. There is never any equality when children are part of the equation. The parent who takes the kids does more for them and puts more money into them, most of the time and I seldom meet ex-partners who do their bit, unless money is not significant.

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]]> By: scatterling http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111891 scatterling Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:34:56 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie/2010/02/12/%e2%80%a6and-the-very-real-abuse-of-men/#comment-111891 @Ian Shaw - the herd mentality huh? that is your "reason for African backwardness" is it? well I seem to recall a couple of little things such as, oh, colonialism, Apartheid, and slavery and the current militarization and de-stabilization of the continent by Chinese and Western governments. yes our leaders suck, and we cant seem to get rid of them, or just keep hiring the same idiots, but for you to suggest that there have been no brave souls bucking the trends on this continent is a gross mis-statement and a highly fabricated state of affairs, mister shaw. @Ian Shaw - the herd mentality huh? that is your “reason for African backwardness” is it? well I seem to recall a couple of little things such as, oh, colonialism, Apartheid, and slavery and the current militarization and de-stabilization of the continent by Chinese and Western governments. yes our leaders suck, and we cant seem to get rid of them, or just keep hiring the same idiots, but for you to suggest that there have been no brave souls bucking the trends on this continent is a gross mis-statement and a highly fabricated state of affairs, mister shaw.

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