By Siphokazi Magadla
Many women who identify as feminist know that August is the one month they’re always asked how the feminist movement is transforming patriarchy.
This year has been no different. Among the inquiries I received, a student journalist asked me to answer in 80 words whether I thought the feminist movement had succeeded in achieving equality for women? Why I thought it was easier to be sexist than racist? What issues I thought the feminist movement still needed to address? And the most interesting question: Do I think “men are victimised by feminism”? All this in exactly 80 words!
When I look at the young women who form the largest section of my undergraduate and postgraduate classes and the largest portion of our university students, I think our feminist foremothers would be pleased to see that women are present as knowable and knowers of society.
But I’m reminded that even today the doors of the university for many women continues to be a privilege. And one has to agree that something is fundamentally wrong with a society like ours where young women have a greater chance of being raped than being able to read and write.
I’m haunted by a report earlier this year where CNN’s Christiane Amanpour examined, for a global audience, South Africa’s gender-based violence shortly after the gang rape of a disabled 17-year-old girl in Soweto and the rape and mutilation of an 8-year-old by a 15-year-old in KwaZulu-Natal.
There’s enough evidence that a greater proportion of women have control over their destinies. But of course looking at our public sphere, which seems to have locked us in a hyper-masculine haven in the images of Zuma, Nzimande, Malema, Vavi, Mantashe, Mthembu and other Big Men, we are reminded of the significance and relevance of asking about the condition of women.
Instead of asking whether the feminist movement has failed South African women, we should be asking what it is about our society that continues to marginalise the voices of women — relegating them to second-class citizens whose relevance in public life is a reactionary presence to the steps and missteps of the “Big Men”.
Indeed, there are many reasons why we must engage with caution. One of them is the tendency to relegate this kind of meditation to the month of August. But the key problem is the assumption that the problem SA women face is due to the feminist movement failing and not the pervasive and violent nature of patriarchal conditions. The question then that we should be asking is what it is about our society that continues to permit patriarchal ways of thinking that today present themselves in various packages with the most popular being the problematic interpretation of “African tradition”.
An invitation I received recently was to participate in a radio discussion on whether it’s possible for men to co-exist in healthy relationships with women who define themselves as “Miss Independent”. Another question was whether I thought some women were “too independent”. My response to the producer was to ask if they were aware that constructing women’s independence from a negative perspective is problematic.
Instead of asking whether women who label themselves as “Miss Independent” can have healthy relationships with “traditional men”, ask what those men mean by “traditional”.
What does this label of “traditional men” imply for male-female relations? Are we to assume that traditional is the same as patriarchal? In which case does that mean some men continue to believe that women are not equal to men and therefore not fully human?
Most importantly, why is that our celebration of women’s month ends up being reduced to questions that treat women’s independence as a problem?
How are women meant to really experience this “independence” if they have to continue to draw boundaries about how independent they are just to make sure they don’t upset anyone by being “too independent”?
Siphokazi Magadla is a lecturer with the politics and international studies department at Rhodes University.
Talking about women and their issues especially during the month of August is mere posing. It is a talk-shop. We see all sorts, imposing themselves on the social medium, arrogating themselves to gurus, on women’s issues. It seems that most of what we do, is exactly what Amanpour does,for the purpose of public consumption only, is a mere publicity stunt. I say this becos even we as women, are not serious about our issues because if we were, we would question Amanpour’s objectivity in the face of worldwide mistreatment of women, even in her own Americas. I put it that it is women who suffers from the “PHD” syndrome. We, have not taken the lessons from our pioneers. We have not taken the struggles from our pioneers and we have failed to build on the momentum of awareness. And the blame should be placed squarely at the door of women. Lets take Madonsela as an eg. Media has built this woman in particular, as the lone renegade for justice. They have in fact built this woman as “Lady Justice”. Yep, this was Miss Independence and Miss Righteous. But lo and behold, what has come to light recently is simply nauseating. The fact that you attend a political rally, I mean for goodness sake, and then trying to defend yourself talks about judgement and responsibility. But the point is, that it is this kind of idiocy that fails the cause of women.
Cont/… It reduces our cause. It diminishes our credibility. It speaks to all those perceptions that is out there of women, and for all the gains we make, it takes us back. Her responsibility to women is particular, is a different cause. Her appointment is not just about herself, it is about something bigger, something greater in breaking that glass ceiling for women. And what has she done, she had failed women completely and grandly. Her exposure is particularly problematic for women in general. She falls into the same pot as Mamphele ect. Women, who should be pioneers. Women who should understand the bigger picture, for the cause of women. And women, who should have taken on this generation’s gift of pioneers. But no, their own and selfish interest prevailed and this will cost us many more years for the fight for credibility, in this world of male dominance.
good article Spokes. Mna I would argue that both the society and the women’s movement continue to fail women
But at the same time we should not fall into the trap of generalizing- that all women are less empowered and are marginalized. There are many women who are not ‘subalterns’ with muted voices-women who have a sense of urgency to resist the societal constraints that faces and challenges them in novel ways
I would like to agree that there is too much emphasis on how negative it is for a woman to be “independent”. What is that supposed to mean really, why is it such a problem. Is it that intimidating that a woman is “equal” ?
I personally have been attacked that my continuous “education” will cost me in terms of finding a husband. Why should my relationship status be correlated to my education?
It is to some extent true that in the South African context, especially in most black societies, the education and advancement of the girl child is at the expense of losing that “eligibility in that same society”. It is a move out of something and joining something “better” (perceived as better). It is safe to say that independence for the woman is at a great cost.
The month of August is a month that should bee seen a celebration of women. I do believe that “independent women” are not a new phenomenon. They are just rare occurances that need to be made public. There are thousands of examples, on all scales, there isnt just one indicator, for this so called Independent successful woman who is a threat to all man kind! The threat has always been there.
The stigma (which is what I feel it should be labelled) of “being independent” should be totally removed. Equality is not a privilege, it is a duty on all (men and women) to ensure that all girl and boy children grow up understanding that they are EQUAL. Thats my thoughts on what Feminism is. PS, 1500 characters are not…
I would like to agree that there is too much emphasis on how negative it is for a woman to be “independent”. What is that supposed to mean really, why is it such a problem. Is it that intimidating that a woman is “equal” ?
I personally have been attacked that my continuous “education” will cost me in terms of finding a husband. Why should my relationship status be correlated to my education?
It is to some extent true that in the South African context, especially in most black societies, the education and advancement of the girl child is at the expense of losing that “eligibility in that same society”. It is a move out of something and joining something “better” (perceived as better). It is safe to say that independence for the woman is at a great cost.
The month of August is a month that should bee seen a celebration of women. I do believe that “independent women” are not a new phenomenon. They are just rare occurances that need to be made public. There are thousands of examples, on all scales, there isnt just one indicator, for this so called Independent successful woman who is a threat to all man kind! The threat has always been there.
The stigma (which is what I feel it should be labelled) of “being independent” should be totally removed. Equality is not a privilege, it is a duty on all (men and women) to ensure that all girl and boy children grow up understanding that they are EQUAL albeit DIFFERENT. Thats my thoughts on what Feminism is. PS, 1500…
I dont personally think there is an issue with independent women, ofcourse we go to school together, same as at work, women occupies whatever position she qualifies for and there is no question about it , everyone respect that. Womens rape is just a pure crime that doesnt form any part of gender equality or oppression by the other same thing as theft.
But in our normal lives and private lives, especially when it comes to relationship, there is a problem , why cause if a women come with that attitude of her position at work to her husband, e.g . she is a manager at work , and she still wants to be a manager at home to her husband, her attitude turn to victimise her to her relationship, because the husband needs a wife not a manager. So my take is confusing this two areas is a worse error for our women counterpart that they seem to be not understanding, which destroys a lot of marriages.
Some women they assume that men are threatened by indepency status of a woman, that is a miscalculation. A man to make a family needs a woman, not another man unless to none heterosexual relationship. Our qualifications and positions shouldnt be wrongly used as barriers to our family settings, hence we would curse our acadamic achievements , if we use them on wrong areas.
Our achievements are a good thing for us to secure employment ,to improve our finances and improve our lives , it ends there. But they have nothing to do with family and should not be abused to affect the family…
Cont. for example I am a male , with my own proffession, good work and good income. But I need a woman to settle with for a family, who will treat me as a husband. Why should I than waste my time with someone whose proffession gives her a problem in assuming her position as a wife in my house?
Good read Siphokazi!
An excellent Thought. It’s such a pity that some comments are politicised and aimed at criticising true independence and the exposing of horrible deeds is greeted with a “shoot the messenger” approach. If this is followed, as it is by many Soth African “leaders”, the plight of South African women is unlikely to be improved.
The problem with independent women is dependent men!
The Traditional Courts Bill… There’s a reason it hasn’t been passe yet, that its gone back to the provinces for public participation, there’s a reason it WILL be amended to take into consideration the participation of women OR, abandoned completely – Because there is a strong presence of women in the legislature – a critical mass of women in political leadership MATTERS. Perhaps they don’t ‘protest’ the way you might like, or prefer… But, perhaps that doesn’t matter… Perhaps its easier to believe (the default perception) that the State is just made up of a bunch of nothing-doers, than to deal in facts…
Thank you all for your engagement. I will start with responding to the various points noted by Tofolux. With regard to the Amanpour comment I agree that there is always a danger of a lack of contextualisation when these ‘local’ tragedies are interpreted for a global audience. But then again even if she was thoroughly familiar with South African politics, our rape statistics that are refusing to decline continue to puzzle even us South Africans. So certainly the is no established South African view on understanding gender based violence, all views are contested, Amanpour’s interpretation is a contribution to those contested views. You are correct to note that the South Africans statistics of gender based violence should be analysed within a global context where the data tells us that one in three women has been physically or sexually abused. But that should not stop the international community from participating in South African debates by trying to understand what is specific to South Africa that creates a space for such violence in a country that is not undergoing civil conflict if we compare ourselves to a society like the DRC where gender based violence is connected to the postconflict status of that country.
I agree that we are finding ourselves in bizarre situation where women like Madonsela and I would add Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma are emerging as the “lone renegade for justice” in a space where it seems that women are absent. Indeed this betrays the amount of effort of…
To Thembani, I agree with you I do not aim to generalise about the subordination of women. As I type this response to you in my office, I am one of the South African women who is not a ‘sulbarten’, my ability to add my own voice to this debate is reflective of the amount of access I have to the structures of power. But that should not stop me or others from recognising that this should not just be a privilege but a way of being for other women. As Miss Peter states, the problem we are facing today is that self-actualised women continue to be an anomaly. The ideal society is that of self actualise men and women where my ‘independence’ as Siphokazi does not become something to debate whether I’m a little or too independent.
Lastly to “sgubhusenkwishi”, I think perhaps that is the problem we are facing here about whether or not if we say someone is independent at one place and not so independent in another. I’m not clear on what you mean by “Our achievements are a good thing for us to secure employment, to improve our finances and improve our lives, it ends there”. I’m interested in how you then define the husband and wife relationship if values of equality don’t come into play. What do you mean by someone treating you as a husband? And what constitutes the abuse of family values if a woman expects to be treated as an equal partner to their husband? I think this is why I’m interested in knowing then what a person actually means by the conflict between “independence” and…
Why should men take independent women seriously when our own sisters don’t.
Way back when, sisters stood together. Now they spend more of their time pulling each other down than they do fighting their way up. Until we can get back to the unity of spirit, we aren’t going to get very far. How do we achieve that?
Sphokazi, read all my comment before you ask your questions.
1. By achievements , I mean the same factors you refer to, that make us believe that a woman is independent.
2. Maybe we need to revisit the issue of family values and our yardsticks for family values, To my understanding a family structure is made up of a wife and husband. Despite the respect within it , a husband preside within the family structure, hence his role and position cannot be equal to that of a wife , even if a husband respect his wife.
3. Good example in parliament, we embrace the same values of equality amongst the members, but the status of a president is still not the same as mps, hence is upto you whether you want to look at that as conflict of equality in values or not.
equality amongst the heterosexual relationship and marriages despite other factors , socially and economically achievements, would remain a fantacy seen far the visual lenght of the horison, than amongst the homsexuals. It is unfortunate that we as heresexuals, as procreators we have more challenges as society development depend on our procreativity capability.
equality amongst the heterosexual relationship and marriages despite other factors , socially and economically achievements, would remain a fantacy seen far the visual lenght of the horison, than amongst the homsexuals. It is unfortunate that we as heresexuals, as procreators we have more challenges as society development depend on our procreativity capability , Our physical makeup nature , in many ways affects our behaviour when it comes to actions, deligation, subordinations and deliberations, than the opposite.
@sgubhusenkwishi #
“… for example I am a male , with my own proffession, good work and good income. But I need a woman to settle with for a family, who will treat me as a husband. Why should I than waste my time with someone whose proffession gives her a problem in assuming her position as a wife in my house?”
Sgubhu. You have taken the words out of my mouth… Well said!
In my opinion the problem isn’t necessarily the inequality between men and women nor is it the independence of women because God created man and women as equals with none having any superiority over the other however God did create man and women with differing roles in society and its the misunderstanding of what these roles are that is the major problem.
hence the question that needs to be asked is what role does the man and the woman have in society, it is my firm belief that if this question is answered both man and woman will be able to fulfil their God given roles without having to justify their existence by taken over the role given to the other. its a given fact, men can’t give birth to children and men can’t breastfeed, now not having the ability to do so doesn’t make the male superior as having the ability to do so doesn’t make the female inferior however we both need each other to make the existence of children possible. in a home where the man knows and accepts his responsibility as a father and the woman knows and accepts her responsibility as a mother it doesn’t really matter what her occupation is but what matters is that both are there to fulfil the responsibility given to them. and South Africa is in dire need of males and females who know their roles in society.
@sgubhus, your views are sexist. What you suggest is that in the main, women do not understand their role and relevance. You suggest that most independent women are overly aggressive and demanding. Sure there are some amongst us who have these behavioural streaks but surely this is evident amongst males as well, but is this the norm? Secondly, the status that you argue, is abour hierarchy and nothing else. We live in a hierarchal society.
sgubhus, when we talk as women about our issues, we talk about the triple challenge of unemployment, poverty and inequality. For you to trivialise and make incoherent comments makes the point that we as women have a huge challenge about equality. We do not want to compete with men. We want to be mothers, we want to nurture, we want to be girlfriends and we want to be wives. Our aim is not to imitate ”males” and replace their roles in our society. We want to complement our males and together, we can achieve so much more.
so many kinds of women out there. i dont like short fat women. if i see one i just pass on by. should i find my woman is not what i am looking for in terms of opinions and what to expect in the home i move on. relationships are my personal thing. i will go toyi toyi with women if they are in any way disadvantaged at work though
Rape is not a sexual crime – its just a crime like any other crime.It targets women.
Robbers dont target churches because the church mouse has beaten him to it and look where it got the church mouse. Thats why they are called bank robbers.Rapists will rape anybody with what they want- it just happens to be women. Its like pick pockets- they will pick the pockets of those with pockets
sgubhusenkwishi
Are you looking for a life partner or a housekeeper with benefits?
A marriage only works if it is between two complete adults. If one is relegated to servant or child status, the marriage is unlikely to succeed. Being able to communicate as equals and to be interested, and interesting, to each other remains long after the children have grown wings and flown the nest.
Having a career allowed me to grow. If I hadn’t been able to grow, then my husband would not find discussing things with me of any interest. I think you may also find that a wife. who’s only conversational contribution is what the neighbourhood scandal is, would become somewhat less than mentally challenging eventually.
Momma Cyndi
I am not looking for an thing, I am married fortunately. But here I am trying my best to address some confusions and human endless wishes that are attached to fantacy. Women and men since creation were created differently by God with a purpose and given different roles attached to their genders, without conditions attachments, which means education advancement or economical stability achievements. But some people like you they choose things that are comfortable to them and attach that to what they imagine as their convinient family partners using out side factors like what we have achieved to justify their fantaces. A women would be pregnant, whether educated or not and that is not a man ‘s fault but is a nature and role given to her, on the other side a man wont be pregnant . At the same time a man doesnt have to be blamed that or punished for that.
In short being able to discuss things with your partner with interest has got nothing to do with education, but people who agree on things , understand each other without attitudes ,will always be progressive in life. Mind you people are born intelligent, education is a supplemental intelligent, so intelligent person would always be mental challenging, educated or not. The fact is there are many educated people who cant agree on anything, hence seperations, divorces and frequent fightings.
You mentioned housekeeper,earlier on, to me that is one of people careers to embetter their lives like any other…
Having said so, I sense you with inquisitiveness, of undermining other women who are less succesfull, hence not giving a reason for us/males to honour womens struggle.
At the sametime housekeepers are there to help the working women whilst at work, not to take over a woman role in the house when the woman is there. That is how most of women have failed themselves, assuming that their education and careers are exempting them from their roles at home, it doesnt work for the family.
I am a man I dont need a handy man(male house keeper) cause I can do my duties within my house for my role after work, that is not a problem to me and I cant make an issue from that. But lazy women fail themselves, you give your family role to a house keeper, your man appreciate and take over that housekeeper who cares for him , case closed.
The problem methinks is abuse of power.Both men and women want equality,so long as it does not trample on their “power”.Space is negotiated on its terms,be it in the bedroom,kitchen or lecture room.Every person is informed by their moral compass.Life by its nature starts with a man and a woman,and the communities they come from.I do think though that women and men are different,primarily execution-wise because the outlook is similar.A man’s month anyone?
sgubhusenkwishi #
There is much more to a partnership than just keeping a house. I have no intention of undermining any woman. Being a mother and keeping a house is a hard job. The problem is that it doesn’t expose the woman to other adult input. That often leads to stagnation.
Fewer men run off with the housekeeper than run off with their secretaries. Now, whilst that is true for both housewives and working women, it does tend to suggest that a meeting of minds is of some importance to men.
Maybe it is because I don’t believe we should stand outside the city walls every month or that we should become our brother-in-law’s property when our husbands die – not sure of the exact reason – but the biblical ideals don’t really appeal to me much