Feminism is a an explosive reaction to sexism. It goes from one extreme to the other – and I don’t care who you are that’s ALWAYS bad. It doesn’t help anything and in fact adds to the problem. It’s something I’ve learned from extensively studying graphology, extremes are never a good thing, and so it goes in life. I don’t want to be crude, but I think it makes my point, being a bitch won’t change a guy from being a dick, and in fact will likely encourage his behavior.

If you don’t like National Cleavage Day, a tit for tat Package Packaged Day isn’t going to change anything. Just say, I don’t agree with it, make a persuasive argument, and rally other women to support you. If you get enough women who aren’t showing off their cleavage on that day then it will fade away. Those that do are more than likely doing it in a jovial fashion or they can only find value in the lustful glances of men so just pity them.

Or change the day. Say instead of “objectifying” myself, we’ll do “Women Strength Day” or something to that effect, highlight women of power or merit, but don’t do it in a way that’s seen as, “this is only to get back at you” because it loses its effect. Women who invoke not only femininity (which by no means is the same as feminism) but possess leadership qualities and can be truly held as icons.

I want to tell you some of the reactions though so you won’t be surprised by it, those guys who are going to make fun of you for being feminists are still going to make fun of you for having said icons. That’s their nature and nothing really that you’re going to say is going to change that. Getting pissed off at their behavior in a sense validates what they’re doing in the first place – they do it to get a rise out of you, so when they don’t get the reaction they want, they have to learn to be more creative. In my experience, many of them get bored and just give up. You’re a woman, you’re grace, you’re intelligent, you’re half of what makes humanity great, and don’t let anybody’s comments take that away from you. Don’t give them that power.

Live strength, don’t just complain about it, and your example will speak far louder than your words.

Case in point: I had a male coworker – in a teasing sense, he wasn’t serious – tell me that women can’t play the same games as men because we’re not as good at it. Had I gotten upset and got into a battle of wills in a tit for tat he would have known that in order to get me upset, that’s all he would have to do, and bring it up again. Instead I just shrugged and didn’t say anything. He pressed a bit harder for a little bit and kept at it for a couple of days, but he finally stopped because it wasn’t getting him what he wanted and he hasn’t mentioned a word about it since.

Being a man and a woman isn’t about equality, it’s about balance. We compliment each other. There are ways around those jerks in our lives, but don’t exacerbate the issue by being a part of the problem.

*And I’m off my soap box, you all have a great day, and remember strength and beauty go hand in hand.

We still are the weaker sex, no matter that we have the vote and some measure of economic power. We are the ones afraid to walk alone anywhere, anytime, wearing what we choose because in the back of our minds is the insidious thought that we are vulnerable to attack simply because we are more fragile.

One gun, one knife, one broken bottle, one finger wielded by someone determined to put us in our place has the power to take away all our hard-won personal gains. We are reduced to being objects to gratify someone else’s desires. We are non-human in the eyes of others if all they see is an opprtunity for gratification, or a threat to the perceived order of things (ie men on top).

Nowadays, it is not so much “I am woman; hear me roar” as it is “I am woman; and I will hide away so as not to be violated.”

It’s a sad, shameful state to be in. Without full protection and acknowledgement by all society of women’s fundamental rights to be who we want to be and wear what we want to wear, we cannot be said to be free – no matter what our Constitution may say about it.

They should be offorded the utmost respect from every male, including the standing up when they enter a room, opening doors etc etc.
Those values shouldnt disappear just because they want to compete on at least an equal footing with men

We can still respect and adore them as our equals.

Your feminist friend needs a few pointers about manners.

I believe that feminism is not a concept cast in stone. It is open to interpretation. If I can use your opening doors situation as an example. Not only do I appreciate when someone (man or woman) holds a door open for me, I do the same for others (men and women). As far as I am concerned it is about good manners and has nothing to do with being a man or a woman. Other feminists will disagree, as is their right.

As for your example about the women leching on rugby players. I have listened to men go on about beautiful women and it doesn’t bother me. Just as it doesn’t bother me that women do that about men. The issue under discussion is not about either sex admiring the other’s physical attributes. Rather, it is about defining women purely on their physical attributes and objectifying them in a disrespectful manner.

NCD is used merely as an example and has sparked lively and interesting debate.

The women who commented here are not strident humourless creatures who don’t want to see any man admire a beautiful woman. What we want is some moderation, reasonableness and respect, all commodities which are sadly in short supply these days.

Notwithstanding the fact that this cleavage day thing was used merely as an illustrative example, and not the actual thing being criticised (which was sexism in general)the two of you were far too eager to pounce on the supposed triviality of the post. For supposed self-profests “feminists” you seem awfully keen to undermine the cause.

You two aside, there are many women here who felt a degree of discomfort with, if not the day itself, at least the concept it promoted. Perhaps the fact that this particular post got a lot of attention had less to do with cleavage day and more to do with the fact that the issue of sexism is so seldom raised in this forum.

So how dare you – men – come in here and tell these women that their experiences are unimportant and that their concerns are trivial! How dare you dictate what YOU believe feminism should be about, not once, but repeatedly?
How DARE you?!
Where do you get off undervaluing an experience that you have never personally encountered and can at very best sympathise with?

I’ll take James Tobias up there over you two anyday. At least we know what we’re getting with him and don’t have to worry about being ambushed by wolf in sheeps’ clothing.

Quite frankly you can take your high-handed, condescending, I-know-what’s-best-for-you, “feminism” and bugger off.