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	<title>Comments on: If nuclear power is so great, why aren&#8217;t we doing it?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/</link>
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		<title>By: Rod Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-88794</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-88794</guid>
		<description>@Catherine - I beg to differ with your statement that burning one atom of carbon releases 11,000 ev of energy.

The real number is just 4 ev per carbon atom.  (Ref: Glasstone and Sesonske, Nuclear Reactor Engineering Van Nostran Reinhold Company, New York, Cincinnati, Toronto, London, Melbourne, 1967 p. 14) You are off by a factor of nearly 3,000.

Sorry for the dead tree reference, but this one has many dog ears and underlines in my personal library and it falls open almost automatically to certain pages - like the discussion of energy density differences between uranium fission and carbon combustion.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Catherine &#8211; I beg to differ with your statement that burning one atom of carbon releases 11,000 ev of energy.</p>
<p>The real number is just 4 ev per carbon atom.  (Ref: Glasstone and Sesonske, Nuclear Reactor Engineering Van Nostran Reinhold Company, New York, Cincinnati, Toronto, London, Melbourne, 1967 p. 14) You are off by a factor of nearly 3,000.</p>
<p>Sorry for the dead tree reference, but this one has many dog ears and underlines in my personal library and it falls open almost automatically to certain pages &#8211; like the discussion of energy density differences between uranium fission and carbon combustion.</p>
<p>Rod Adams<br />
Publisher, Atomic Insights</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-88757</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-88757</guid>
		<description>One nuclear fission of uranium releases 200 000 000 eV of energy. One atom of carbon when it burns in air will release about 11 000 eV of energy. I end my case here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One nuclear fission of uranium releases 200 000 000 eV of energy. One atom of carbon when it burns in air will release about 11 000 eV of energy. I end my case here.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86993</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86993</guid>
		<description>@Chris - OK. So let&#039;s say I agree that there is a Hubbert&#039;s Peak for world oil production and that we are very close to or even past that peak.

What makes you think that using nuclear fission will be just a temporary bridge? Based on very reasonable assumptions for the world&#039;s supply of accessible uranium and thorium, humans can provide all of the energy they from fission (with supplements from combustion of growing things, wind and solar) for millennia. 

Our current generation of reactors - using essentially the same technology as first developed in the 1950s - only convert about 0.5% of the potential heat energy in uranium into electricity. If we improve on that and we begin using thorium - both of which we already KNOW how to do - we can stretch fission fuels for essentially FOREVER. Considering the fact that fission is reliable, safe, clean and affordable, why would we want to try to reduce our energy consumption to the level that &quot;renewable energy sources&quot; can provide without assistance?

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris &#8211; OK. So let&#8217;s say I agree that there is a Hubbert&#8217;s Peak for world oil production and that we are very close to or even past that peak.</p>
<p>What makes you think that using nuclear fission will be just a temporary bridge? Based on very reasonable assumptions for the world&#8217;s supply of accessible uranium and thorium, humans can provide all of the energy they from fission (with supplements from combustion of growing things, wind and solar) for millennia. </p>
<p>Our current generation of reactors &#8211; using essentially the same technology as first developed in the 1950s &#8211; only convert about 0.5% of the potential heat energy in uranium into electricity. If we improve on that and we begin using thorium &#8211; both of which we already KNOW how to do &#8211; we can stretch fission fuels for essentially FOREVER. Considering the fact that fission is reliable, safe, clean and affordable, why would we want to try to reduce our energy consumption to the level that &#8220;renewable energy sources&#8221; can provide without assistance?</p>
<p>Rod Adams<br />
Publisher, Atomic Insights<br />
Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Hartnady</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86974</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartnady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86974</guid>
		<description>Nuclear is a nice distraction, but time to return to the peak oil issue, perhaps!

Each month the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) produces authoritative statistics of country and world crude-oil production.  Yesterday’s issue of the June 2009 “International Petroleum Monthly” (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t41d.xls) shows that conventional crude production has declined from an all-time high of just over 74 million barrels/day in July 2008 to around 72 million barrels/day in April 2009 (the last month for which provisional figures are available).

A straightforward analysis of EIA and historical production since the start of commercial oil exploitation in 1850 indicates that there is indeed an “ultimate” recoverable resource of about 2 trillion barrels, of which about half had already been extracted and consumed (burned) by 2004.  After late 2004 global production entered a “plateau stage” around 73.5 million barrels/day, and current production is at levels last seen in December 2003. The ascent of Hubbert’s peak is now history. Who wants to take odds that by July 2010 production will be below 70 million barrels/day and still declining?

A similar historical analysis shows that “peak coal” for South Africa arrives by 2020, and that Eskom’s plans for future energy generation from coal in the Waterberg (Lephalele) are an unrealistic folly.  There is probably no escape from an interim nuclear expansion, as a bridging strategy while the economy adjusts to a future based increasingly on renewable energy sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear is a nice distraction, but time to return to the peak oil issue, perhaps!</p>
<p>Each month the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) produces authoritative statistics of country and world crude-oil production.  Yesterday’s issue of the June 2009 “International Petroleum Monthly” (<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t41d.xls" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t41d.xls</a>) shows that conventional crude production has declined from an all-time high of just over 74 million barrels/day in July 2008 to around 72 million barrels/day in April 2009 (the last month for which provisional figures are available).</p>
<p>A straightforward analysis of EIA and historical production since the start of commercial oil exploitation in 1850 indicates that there is indeed an “ultimate” recoverable resource of about 2 trillion barrels, of which about half had already been extracted and consumed (burned) by 2004.  After late 2004 global production entered a “plateau stage” around 73.5 million barrels/day, and current production is at levels last seen in December 2003. The ascent of Hubbert’s peak is now history. Who wants to take odds that by July 2010 production will be below 70 million barrels/day and still declining?</p>
<p>A similar historical analysis shows that “peak coal” for South Africa arrives by 2020, and that Eskom’s plans for future energy generation from coal in the Waterberg (Lephalele) are an unrealistic folly.  There is probably no escape from an interim nuclear expansion, as a bridging strategy while the economy adjusts to a future based increasingly on renewable energy sources.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86941</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86941</guid>
		<description>@pete ess - You are welcome. We can build nuclear now; we know how to build and operate plants safely and cost effectively.

We do, of course, need to invest money in the plant construction process. Nuclear energy facilities are manufacturing plants that can produce a valuable product. They require careful design, high quality materials, and good construction techniques. They also will require well trained and dedicated operators to make the best use of their production capabilities. 

No energy production system comes for free; all require a varying amount of upfront and continuing investment.

As we build and operate new plants, I fully expect that we will refine the designs, just as we do for internal combustion engines, microprocessors, sailboats, and other manufactured products.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pete ess &#8211; You are welcome. We can build nuclear now; we know how to build and operate plants safely and cost effectively.</p>
<p>We do, of course, need to invest money in the plant construction process. Nuclear energy facilities are manufacturing plants that can produce a valuable product. They require careful design, high quality materials, and good construction techniques. They also will require well trained and dedicated operators to make the best use of their production capabilities. </p>
<p>No energy production system comes for free; all require a varying amount of upfront and continuing investment.</p>
<p>As we build and operate new plants, I fully expect that we will refine the designs, just as we do for internal combustion engines, microprocessors, sailboats, and other manufactured products.</p>
<p>Rod Adams<br />
Publisher, Atomic Insights</p>
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		<title>By: pete ess</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86936</link>
		<dc:creator>pete ess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86936</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Rod. So can we build nuclear now, or are you saying we have to invest more into getting nuclear working better? And is that in sight?

@Mark: Your man Julian Simon (a psychologist by training) was, quite simply, a blinkers-on utopian! He believed in endless ever-growing benefits from limitless resources and unlimited population growth empowered by technological progress. That we do not need to limit ANYTHING!

Now I don&#039;t know about you, but common sense suggests to me that NEVER is a lo-ong time, and &quot;endless&quot; is a lot. Surely it is much more likely that we DO actually need to be more thoughtful about what we do with our resources?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Rod. So can we build nuclear now, or are you saying we have to invest more into getting nuclear working better? And is that in sight?</p>
<p>@Mark: Your man Julian Simon (a psychologist by training) was, quite simply, a blinkers-on utopian! He believed in endless ever-growing benefits from limitless resources and unlimited population growth empowered by technological progress. That we do not need to limit ANYTHING!</p>
<p>Now I don&#8217;t know about you, but common sense suggests to me that NEVER is a lo-ong time, and &#8220;endless&#8221; is a lot. Surely it is much more likely that we DO actually need to be more thoughtful about what we do with our resources?</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86931</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86931</guid>
		<description>@pete ess - Certainly you are allowed to introduce the concept of &quot;REDUCE&quot; into the energy discussion. It is always there and has been ever since Amory Lovins published his 1976 Foreign Affairs article titled &quot;The Soft Energy Path: The Road Not Taken&quot;. I have no issue with people who want to reduce their own consumption and to encourage others to make similar decisions.

What I do care about is the 3 billion or so people who are already on the planet today who have no access to reliable electricity, clean running water or interior climate control. Those people who burn a few twigs to heat water for their morning or evening tea cannot &quot;Reduce&quot; their consumption any more. 

I also care deeply about the fact that providing the energy we use today requires about 6 BILLION tons of coal, 4 BILLION tons of oil, 120 TRILLION cubic feet of natural gas, and 60,000 pounds of uranium (plus a few billion tons of assorted bimass). Cut those numbers down as much as you want; we still need reliable energy to exist comfortably. I like the idea of doubling or tripling the uranium consumption while halving or quartering the fossil fuel consumption.

Oops - almost forgot to mention the word that causes Lovins and his fell travelers to blanch - NUCLEAR Energy is the primary path forward.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pete ess &#8211; Certainly you are allowed to introduce the concept of &#8220;REDUCE&#8221; into the energy discussion. It is always there and has been ever since Amory Lovins published his 1976 Foreign Affairs article titled &#8220;The Soft Energy Path: The Road Not Taken&#8221;. I have no issue with people who want to reduce their own consumption and to encourage others to make similar decisions.</p>
<p>What I do care about is the 3 billion or so people who are already on the planet today who have no access to reliable electricity, clean running water or interior climate control. Those people who burn a few twigs to heat water for their morning or evening tea cannot &#8220;Reduce&#8221; their consumption any more. </p>
<p>I also care deeply about the fact that providing the energy we use today requires about 6 BILLION tons of coal, 4 BILLION tons of oil, 120 TRILLION cubic feet of natural gas, and 60,000 pounds of uranium (plus a few billion tons of assorted bimass). Cut those numbers down as much as you want; we still need reliable energy to exist comfortably. I like the idea of doubling or tripling the uranium consumption while halving or quartering the fossil fuel consumption.</p>
<p>Oops &#8211; almost forgot to mention the word that causes Lovins and his fell travelers to blanch &#8211; NUCLEAR Energy is the primary path forward.</p>
<p>Rod Adams<br />
Publisher, Atomic Insights</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86930</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86930</guid>
		<description>Coen, that is all semantic garbage. Solar and wind power are not alternatives, people just call them that.  Forget about externalities, they can&#039;t do the required heavy lifting.  These technologies are all rated in KW not KWhr (look this up, no space).  They are also rated at peak output.  PV, for instance, do not convert photons to electrons via a linear function.  This means that as half the lumins don&#039;t give you half the electrons, production drops off dramatically after 3PM, not when the sun goes down.  Couds? Look for a 40% drop, on top of that due to the decrease in incident angle imposed by the earth&#039;s rotation.  The cost will have to drop below NanoSolar&#039;s offering to make it practical to use panels to take load off the grid, even those guys misrepresent the benefits (again, KW vs KWhr).  Wind, it would take between 600 and 1000 large windmills to equil an AP1000.  Windmills only last 20 years, vs 60 years for an AP1000.  That is up to 3000 windmills.  These will also need gas turbine peaking generators to even out the load to make it resemble base load power.  These are sacred cows that need to be slaughtered.  They are the platform shoes and wide lapels of energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coen, that is all semantic garbage. Solar and wind power are not alternatives, people just call them that.  Forget about externalities, they can&#8217;t do the required heavy lifting.  These technologies are all rated in KW not KWhr (look this up, no space).  They are also rated at peak output.  PV, for instance, do not convert photons to electrons via a linear function.  This means that as half the lumins don&#8217;t give you half the electrons, production drops off dramatically after 3PM, not when the sun goes down.  Couds? Look for a 40% drop, on top of that due to the decrease in incident angle imposed by the earth&#8217;s rotation.  The cost will have to drop below NanoSolar&#8217;s offering to make it practical to use panels to take load off the grid, even those guys misrepresent the benefits (again, KW vs KWhr).  Wind, it would take between 600 and 1000 large windmills to equil an AP1000.  Windmills only last 20 years, vs 60 years for an AP1000.  That is up to 3000 windmills.  These will also need gas turbine peaking generators to even out the load to make it resemble base load power.  These are sacred cows that need to be slaughtered.  They are the platform shoes and wide lapels of energy.</p>
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		<title>By: pete ess</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86926</link>
		<dc:creator>pete ess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86926</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re allowed to say &quot;green&quot;, we&#039;re allowed to say &quot;alternative&quot;, we&#039;re allowed to debate whether the supply of oil will ever end (&quot;NEVER&quot; say George Bush and Dick Cheney, and you can trust them!), but we are NOT allowed to mention the one word which is actually the only viable strategy available.
REDUCE.
As long as GROWTH remains the holy grail we are simply meandering down a dead-end street, talking rubbish and arguing meaningless points.
Will we ever be able to genuinely discuss how to stop wasting the earth&#039;s resources?
Sure hope so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re allowed to say &#8220;green&#8221;, we&#8217;re allowed to say &#8220;alternative&#8221;, we&#8217;re allowed to debate whether the supply of oil will ever end (&#8220;NEVER&#8221; say George Bush and Dick Cheney, and you can trust them!), but we are NOT allowed to mention the one word which is actually the only viable strategy available.<br />
REDUCE.<br />
As long as GROWTH remains the holy grail we are simply meandering down a dead-end street, talking rubbish and arguing meaningless points.<br />
Will we ever be able to genuinely discuss how to stop wasting the earth&#8217;s resources?<br />
Sure hope so.</p>
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		<title>By: Coen</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-86888</link>
		<dc:creator>Coen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/peakoilperspectives/2009/07/03/if-nuclear-power-is-so-great-why-arent-we-doing-it/#comment-86888</guid>
		<description>Ken dude, any alternatives with a little footprint of externalities, as I asked in a previous post? No? And I find it typical fo the greenies that google info about their gripe but offer no alternatives. It&#039;s easy to rail against the the evils but SLIGHTLY more difficult to offer viable alternatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken dude, any alternatives with a little footprint of externalities, as I asked in a previous post? No? And I find it typical fo the greenies that google info about their gripe but offer no alternatives. It&#8217;s easy to rail against the the evils but SLIGHTLY more difficult to offer viable alternatives.</p>
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