I’m an anthropologist and I study humans and in particular am fascinated by how they see themselves and create often strange and even contradictory things called “identity”. Most of us, and I would argue all of us, actually have multiple identities. And the answer is yes; this does create a rather schizophrenic species of great ape.
At base we are simply a type of ape that comes in a variety of colours and sizes. The differences we see and often mistakenly think are important are merely arbitrary expressions of a complex set of genes we all carry. The concept so viciously used to subjugate, oppress and categorise people has no meaning, biologically speaking.
It is clear from the online debates that these categories are given special salience in South Africa; hardly unexpected considering the apartheid past. What I find particularly troubling by the current debates is the constant use of apartheid’s categories as if they are still real matter-of-fact groups of people that share something in common. Most often these people actually do not share that much in common beyond a vaguely defined colour of skin.
The “white race”
The so-called “white” people of South Africa come from a wide variety of backgrounds and are descendents of various population groups from all across Europe. For example, I met a Croatian girl in South Africa a few years ago while she was visiting her relatives in Johannesburg. They had moved here in the early 1990s to escape civil war in the former Yugoslavia. They had never benefited from apartheid and come from an area that has seen some horrific suffering of its own. Should her family be included in the broad categories so used and defended with such vehemence? Her family was not part of Europe that benefited from colonialism and yet claims are often made that all “white” people have benefited from the subjugation of the rest of the world.
The “black race”
I have a San friend from Botswana who once spoke to me about the way “black” people treat the San. He is by all external appearances “black”. He does not fit into any stereotype about the San being short, yellow come-the-gods-must-be-crazy fame. How does he then fit into these crude blocks? And for the record he was not complaining about the way he is treated but discussing how they share their poverty in remote locations in the Kalahari. What he was highlighting was an ethnic distinction in language/custom etc.
What we have here are examples that contradict notions of race as meaningful groupings. South Africa needs to move beyond the race debate and begin to set race aside as a meaningful way to organise society.
Affirmative action
Affirmative action may be justified in the Constitution, but that does not mean it is right or needs to be defended in practice. If I applied for a job and the other candidate was equally qualified with the same experience, a PhD etc, and they were also “black” I would not mind that being the final deciding factor. In practice universities in South Africa hire the so-called previously disadvantaged when they only have a master’s degree; a “white” man with a PhD is bumped in the name of affirmative action. Is this affirmative?
This ensures that that department has reduced its capacity to supervise and train people to the level of a PhD. That means less students in the system can now get PhDs. The University of KwaZulu-Natal has less than 40% of academic staff with PhDs. Whole departments are incapable of generating new PhDs of any race group. How does this benefit transformation?
At a professional level affirmative action is a little ridiculous. People that have obtained high levels of qualifications have already benefited from the transformation of society and should not require an additional edge in order to compete. Some of the loudest voices I know defending affirmative action come from middle-class professionals who hardly need more advantages in life.
Even scholarships and bursaries for study should not be based on race. If these were based on need through a means test then the majority would still benefit and no scholarship would be wasted on anyone who has already benefited from transformation. This would see more poor people rising beyond their entrenched poverty and help in transforming society — even racially!
For those who say that the wealth is still disproportionately held by the minority white population; you are stating a fact, but not one changed by AA. What you will actually be defending is that wealth should be held in the hands of a new black elite and black middle class. I find this position often held by so-called communists who believe Blade should drive a luxury sedan and that ANC ministers deserve their fat pay cheques and car and housing allowances. I find a base hypocrisy at work where people are actually jostling for room at the trough as opposed to uplifting the poor.
Another common group I find in the race debates is the “white” middle-class person, who is gainfully employed, and defends AA with a righteousness usually reserved for ministers at the pulpit. They are secretly Stalinists who fight for redistribution of others wealth but never their own. Michael Sutcliffe of Durban infamy comes to mind. Are these people vacating positions to make way for racial transformation? The logical next step in AA would be the removal of “white” people from posts to make room for more “blacks”; is this feasible or fair? Or should AA only be at the hiring process and not for those currently entrenched?
Real transformation of South African society will come when people unify as one, not in triumphalist nationalism, but when they see each other as truly equal.
So ask yourself as you write a response below, are you defending the rights of the majority or merely being a self-righteous schizophrenic great ape? It is time to move beyond race and accept differences as a bonus in society.
South Africa is not unique in experiencing racism. It can be shown to exist in every country to varying degrees and with a vast range of effects. I am not arguing that racism is not a real problem that needs to be addressed. It clearly does need to be challenged, but reaffirming the categories as real does no good and no justice to those suffering discrimination. It is far more logical and a far better strategy to challenge the very notion of race as real and meaningful.
To put it another way a man should be uplifted because he is poor and not because he is a particular shade of colour. It may very well be that that colour of skin was what assigned him to degrading poverty and oppression, but to make his skin colour worth more than the next mans can only recreate the very thing people supposedly fought for in South Africa.
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85 Responses to “The race debate is a dead end”
You’re teetering on the edge of political-incorrectness. Jump in!
I am so tired of race pervading anything and everything in this country. Excellence means nothing and affirmative action and BEE are now interpreted and applied as meaning whites are not allowed anything - all the theories anout equality and striving to equal the playing fields have gone out of the window. Race is now simply a basis for entitlement - at the lower level to commit crime and at the higher level to dip into the coffers of goverment and business without adding value and without being bound by conscience and decency - vide the ministers cars.
You mean dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personality disorder) rather than schizophrenia.
As a trained observer and recorder of societies I would have thought you may be able to be a bit more incisive in your analysis. The race debate is categorically not a dead end. It is a growth industry that partly reflects the power struggles in society. It’s really only in the credulous, middlebrow popular imagination that the premises of the debate are taken, and debunked, at face value. But there are various tabloid newspapers and glossy magazines that one can turn to for that level of analysis.
And the race debate won’t die anytime soon. History should surely tell you that.
My Master’s supervisor is white and he only has a Master’s. This is only considered a problem, by many if he was black, because then he was an Affirmative Action candidate and some worthy white Phd was ignored.
Frans De Reiger on September 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
transformation my dear doctor is a way of empowering blacks,that have been disempowered and dispossessed by the white people from europe especially western european countries.what you have experienced at varsities is not happening at all in the private sector,there is no empowerment in the private sector if it does occur its only a smokescreen.The people who are being empowered are white women and Indians and not qualified blacks with experiance. Since you an academic I challenge you to carry out a research into the qualifications of middle managers to management in the insurance industry and the banking sector and compare those qualifications with those of their black surbodinates,you will be shocked by the results for you to condenscendingly deny that racism exists in the work place or anywhere else for that matter is an insult to us black people.
You are the one thats being a self-righteous schezophrenic big ape.
The fact is you white people are in denial of the fact that you are guilty of racism.
If only the SA population was mature enough to be able to move beyond race . If only we had the calibre of leadership that could lead us by example to think beyond race .
S.P.van Niekerk on September 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I resent the fact that you sit in a very priviledge position and tell blacks that they should get on with it. You begin with an apologist and denialist point of view and suggest a mere 15yrs has wiped the slate clean. I despise that notion simply because you assume that equality has arrived and all imbalances have been redresssed. How disingenous and insensitive! Why dont you tell whites to stop shooting and killing human beings because they mistook them for dogs. Why dont you tell university students to stop insulting our mothers and fathers only because they believe mistreatment to be a joke. Why dont you tell whites not to drag human beings by car through the streets to make an example of how cruel they can be. Why dont you tell youths that beating up a black vagrant will not wipe out a vagrancy problem. Now I have described known human rights abuses post 1994. Now are you suggesting that race debate is a dead end because YOU see no serious implications for this society going forward? I think you should take the blinkers off and start looking at SOUTH AFRICA through clear coloured glasses. White supremacy is a major problem in this society. It has never been a concept and apartheid was a reality and not a bad dream. You cannot sit in a dark corner and speak to a select group of people and then declare that you are a guru with all the answers?
As long as there are laws that say you can get a better job because you are black there will be racial discrimination and racial tension. It starts at school, where whites need 92% to study for a Medical Doctor whereas black students only need 75%. Now tell me there is no racial discrimination in that. Government must stop with Affirmative Action and BEE. Affirmative Action and BEE is discriminating against me as a white South African. Take it or leave it and say what ever you want to. Those laws are the same as Apartheid even worse because it is happening NOW in this day and age!
It is the black people of this country that have laws against white people of the country. The ANC government are telling the whites they are second class citizens here. “Just pay your taxes and shut-up” is what the government is saying and any black person that say it is not so is in denial.
I live and look after 2 black families, so don’t you call me a racist and I was brought up by a black woman like many whites in this country.
Mmmm… by the lack of challenges or opinions to the contrary, methinks either you have hit the nail on the head or thousands of servers appear to be offline today … lol. Well written
Transformation should have started from the bottom up and be firmly based on the rock of a very good education system; from pre school right through to university. Otherwise it will remain replacing one elite group with another and the poor stay essentially the same. Competition for brainpower/ideas uplits all, cosy well paid easy to get jobs only helps the few elite, Apartheid has already proved that.
Michael,
You have articulated many of the thoughts that have been floating around inside my head for some time!
I once read an article that suggsted that genetically, humans of all race groups are almost identical, and the genetic differences between white, black, Chinese etc humans is far less that the genetic differences to be found in horses, Chimpanzees and other “groups” of animals, including primates.
My own make-up is a huge mixture from various corners of the planet, and yet I am considered “white”.
if I was a dog, you would call me a mongrel / brak!
I do not consider myself to be a racist, but am probaly an elitist - I do not care about people’s skin colour, but I care very much about their behaviour and values.
I enjoy associating with people that are hard working, honest, intelligent and treat other people with dignity and respect, no matter what their colour.
I fully agree with you that AA should be aimed at those that are genuinely disadvantaged and prejudiced, no matter what their colour - the poor, disabled, orphans etc.
The fact that the vast majority of people that presently fulfil those criteria happen to be black - so what?
Like Many SAs you appear to not have noticed “Coloureds”, like most of the rest of the world, either as distinct races (Asian, Polynesian, Hispanic etc) or mixed race creoles. (Obama, Bob Marley etc.)
And this is rather revealing of you.
PS as working in the care sector in the UK, I have to be not only aware of race, as certain diseases (thalassaemia, sickle cell anaemia, etc) have a racial bias and certain drugs react differently with different races.
I also have to be careful that I dont discredit a racial characteristic, since there is so much race mixing in the UK and world nowadays that it is possible that an outward appearing race on a patient actually has the genetic disease vulnerabilities of another.
Racial profiling is not stupid, it is how it is done and for what reason.
And Race discussions can be very useful if done for the right reasons, since Genetics does actually affect us all. Like the need for more West Indian descendant bone marrow donors in order to prevent rejection due to racial spread of antibody types.
I don’t really get your point, I think maybe the problem with you is that you are not aware of the real working environment of this country. There are a lot of Black Graduates that report to people with Technical College certificates in the Engineering industry and they are going to tell you this persons(Whites) has more experience but at the end of the day the Black Graduate will be taken as an AA appoitee even though he knows more than the white man. For as long as white people who most of the time are the people who hires don’t believe that a black man can be as competant as a white man then we need AA and the government needs to force all the companies doing bussiness in South Africa to comply!
Fascinating that whites are always the ones who believe that the racism issue should be abandoned, and justify this on the basis that blacks are getting unfairly privileged . . .
Alisdair,
I know that a disease such as sickle cell anemia disproportionately affects people of West African origin. It does so due to an evolutionary response to malaria in the region and not as a result of their skin colour. That is merely a historic regional factor that coincides with skin colour of those from the area and whose families have been in the area for multiple generations and the disease can be found in all population groups so is not unique to any race group. It also has the same prevalence among Europeans as it does Southern Africans.
Kitty Kat - I never said “blacks should get on with it” and in fact (if you read) argue for real transformation based on poverty. I acknowledge that ‘blacks’ experience the most poverty so that targeting the poor would target mainly ‘blacks’. What I do not support is the continued support of those already benefited that is a waste of resources.
Oneflew - I know the race debate won’t die soon; I am arguing that it should - not that it will. Too many Orwellian style pigs at the trough ensuring that some are more equal than others to allow that to happen.
Kitty Kat – You make some wild claims based on things I never said. I have never said that 15 years wiped the slate clean. History needs to be remembered and acknowledged in all its violence and ugliness. Equality has not been reached but the current situation is merely an elite transition whereby rich blacks replace the rich whites and the poor are even poorer than before.
If you read any of my previous blogs you would see I am a pacifist that is against all killing. What is the basis for your wild accusations? You bring up some strange points about human rights violations post 1994. There have been many and I do speak out against them when I can. I have deplored the xenophobia, crime levels and so forth. This blog addresses one issue facing South African society and can hardly be all inclusive even as these things may be linked.
I do believe that if we stayed mired in racial categorisation and race based thinking society will never move forward in a meaningful way and Apartheid will continue to trundle along with new elites at the helm.
You suggest that I need to look at “SOUTH AFRICA through clear coloured glasses”. How revealing of your way of thinking; you think coloured glasses are clear. I suppose that such a lens would benefit you as you sit in the sun staring darkly at those around you.
Entertaining and thought provoking - unfortunately like many academics, you have limited grasp of what the ‘real’ perceptions of the vast majority think, feel and believe. The debate, and fears with associated prejudices will occupy centre stage for decades, the ‘white’ population will continue to shrink. The subliminal and overt repression will continue to take a toll. And if we expected better we have been grossly stupid! Minority groups with ‘vicious’ baggage generally do not survive. Apartheid was ‘evil’ - there is a price to be paid, but hey ho perhaps its put up and shut up, or sail away.
Ideally, SA should move to Kenyanisation quickly and get on with being an authentic third world society. And leave behind it current pretensions.
Some arguments (Ndlovu, Kittie Kat, MFB) could make me think that de Klerk made the wrong move in the early nineties.
Race and racial issues will always play a role in any society. It is an art to co-exist and uplift each other for the good of society.
If all blacks in SA really had wanted all whites out, you might have found that a well trained and motivated battalion of “boere” could have done some serious damage to the then SADF. Why would the ANC keep a bunch of these “boere” characters in jail for years? Scared???
Instead, de Klerk and Mandela saw the risk and did not want to let this happen to the nation. The nation stood behind them and so came a peaceful solution in place. I do think they made the right move.
The three contributors mentioned above could do with a couple of “what if” scenarios before shooting off their mouth. Whatever you say, blacks and whites are here to stay. Better make the best of it for the future of your children.
Your feeble attempt to tackle the very complex yet delicate subject of race shows the lack of depth of your arguments:
1. The fact that all humans belong to the same species still seems to be a novel concept for most white SAns. This is sad but understandable.
2. Assume this poor Croatian immigrant who was not was not part of the apartheid oppression, but is subjected to SA’s AA had to emigrate to the US. Do you think she will even dream of protesting that she was not a descendant of slave owners so she should not be subjected to any AA laws that apply in private and public sectors?
3. “South Africa needs to move beyond the race debate and begin to set race aside as a meaningful way to organise society.
Oh, I see, we should just pretend that discrimination and white supremacy practiced since 1600s never existed? This is insulting to the intelligence of blacks - yes that includes Coloreds and Indians.
continued…
…continued
4. “Affirmative action may be justified in the Constitution, but that does not mean it is right or needs to be defended in practice.”
Your reasoning is seriously impaired. Are you saying that we should selectively ignore the Constitution?
If the white regime had done the right thing in the 80s when they saw apartheid was doomed, maybe we could have done without AA today! However, they lacked the basic humanity and foresight to do the right thing by at least integrating schools and outlawing job discrimination well before 1994 - this is why we continue to have to fight this battle today. If AA is not enforced NOW, our children and grandchildren will be forced to continue this fight.
5. “reaffirming the categories as real does no good and no justice to those suffering discrimination.”
Unfortunately, the categories of African, Colored, Indian and White will remain with us for a long time since only inter-racial marriages can gradually be eradicate these distinctions over time. Remember the Apartheid government’s Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act in 1949 followed by the the Immorality Act in 1950 that banned sexual relations between white and black, was enforced for almost half a century! It going to take awhile for us to move beyond racial categories.
I almost agreed with you when I read your title. But then the article does nothing more than what Kitty Kat talks of, depict apartheid as benign racism; not brutal structural fascism. A bit like Holocaust trivialisers. The Yugoslav may not have lived under apartheid, but come on, it’s easier for her to blend into SOUTH Africa’s networks of economic opportunity. East Europeans who I know have benefitted from being white in South Africa. This denial of systemic privilege leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of black people who have made huge efforts to reconcile with whites. But mostly, all we get is complaints. I respect your attempts to critique race, but your anthropology is without substance. Surely you of all people should know of the way in which societies accord privilege and power. When people call for an end to the race debates, it’s to deny that being white has advantages. You speak as tho democracy and reconstruction destroys whites, this leaves us frustrated and hurt. Too many white south africans choose this selfserving argument. What would you have had? Nurenberg? Algerian type redistribution? BTW historically, universities in this country have a poor track record with producing PhDs, their ‘pre1994′ past is not ‘excellent’. Problems they face today are compounded by massification. Fight for economic justice so that we can dispense with the race debate! Acknowledge privilege, and fight for all to be true social equals. Would you really like to be black in SA?
Why I thought I’d agree with you is because you say the race debate is a “dead end”. You are right there, but not in all aspects of your argument. It’s a dead end because ‘race’ as you point out is not real. You are right because it easily becomes a political football that people can draw on conveniently. I feel the race debate is a dead-end so long as it does NOT promote non-racialism. We cannot talk of race as a perpetual phenomenon, we must talk of race to dismantle it. We must talk of race in conjunction with a fight for economic justice and a true dedication to re-building this country. It’s funny, for those who are fighting for justice we speak of rebuilding this country, for conservatives, they see us dismantling this country. Yes we are dismantling 300 years of elitism and brutality and selfishness that have pushed this country to the pits of hell, brutalising victims and turning ordinary white men who were forced to join the army into tortures and murderers. We must reconcile through both acknowledgement of pain and through policies that accord opportunity where it has been systemically denied. It is not easy, it is tough. In essences, I agree with you say, I don’t care if its a white or black person serving me in govt, it must be with dignity, respect and yield results. That is the ideal the race debate must lead to.
LASTLY - I would also challenge you do to do what Bravo Ndlovu is saying - go into the private sector and unviersities and look at the qualifications people hold. I think you may be shocked. At Rhodes we had two deans without PhDs while I was a student there. They were white. Had they been black, you can only imagine what would have been said.
What we want to achieve in terms of an ideal where race doesnt matter, cannot move from the premise implicit in some of your argument, that there was once a glorious excellent white past.
As BRENT says - that’s what 300 years of elitism did in this country. it bred white mediocrity under the illusion that if work is associated with a white skin it is naturally excellent. and indeed, let’s not worsen that with rigid affirmative action policies, white denialism or a polarised race debate.
@Kitty Kat it’s not helpful to totally dig into the caustic language; yes it must be our terms but there are no hippos and dogs and sjamboks waiting for us outside anymore. The people who suffer that are our ‘foreign’ compatriots who are brutalised by black south africans every single day.
The fallacy of the argument for the abandonment of race debate lies in the fact that “race” or “racism” past or present, is identical to “South Africa”. What is conveniently overlooked is the “ethnicity” which, together with “race” are both social and cultural concepts, but used for political reasons.
Race and ethnicity, as fundamental to an accidental South African identity, will continue to survive in its ugliest form as long as South Africans deny the fact that they all are racist, by the fact that they are a race-centred society. This fact has been, and is still, used for political dominance to exercise control over resources.
Race and ethnicity should form part of our everyday debate in the same manner that it is an organising principle of our everyday life in such matters as self-concept, concept of others, residential choice, who to employ or fire, choices of friends or enemies, etc,. This applies to both “Black” and “White”
The political manipulation of race and ethnicity - be it is past or present policies, has failed to deal with the real South African issues as a whole. It will continue to avoid confronting our problems if politicians are allowed to deal with such sophisticated issues like “race” and “ethnicity” because politics is about power and wealth distribution, and thus will always used phenotypes for such purposes.
It seems that most of you are buying into illusion and hate based on external appearances. The truth is there is a transcendant universal mind that supplies your personality with awareness of “self”. It is like an ocean and your discriminating thoughs and emotions are like foam. Sink into the peace and unity that lies deeper within you and these meaningless problems dissapear. Good luck Fools.
A good read. I have tried that arguement having that vital 8% that makes me a true SA citzen. That does not work in the eyes of the current dispensation.
One thing I have learned. If you have something the government really wants to fill a political promise or need they happily ignore AA, EE, BEE or anything that is normaly applied by law. Funny how that works when one holds all the cards.
@Kitty Kat,
Your “victim” attitude makes me sick. You carry on as if blacks Africans were the only victims in history. Many peoples have been exploited the world over. Very few have received any form of affirmative action to prosper in the world. They knucle down, get educated and succeed. They don’t sit back and expect to qualify with less marks than the next man just because they or their parents were exploited.
South Africans would benefit by studying history in other parts of the world to see the exploitation that has taken place, instead of wallowing in self-pity.
@ Bravo….I usually try and restrain myself, but you are talking absolute rubbish when you say that… “there is no empowerment in the private sector if it does occur its only a smokescreen”. You are woefully uninformed or you are being deliberately misleading.
For many years I was employed by a major JSE listed corporate that works very hard to achieve representavity in the workplace. Many blacks, coloureds and Indians have benefitted from this initiative.
The company concerned employs more than 30,000 people and certainly has more non-whites than whites on it’s workforce. This includes many who hold positions at junior, middle and senior management and executive level. These managers and executives have achieved their positions on merit and are highly regarded by all their subordinates and are well integrated in the management team.
The problem with your post is that you belittle all the efforts made on behalf of so many historically disadvantaged people. This is shameful.
anton kleinschmidt on September 24th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
“Unclean ….Unclean…”
If racialism is to be regarded as a behavioural or social disease, then condemning its symptoms and effects is no way for curing it. One does not get rid of a condition by calling it a bad name. No progress was made in the treatment of leprosy whilst the practice of society was to ring bells and to cry “Unclean ! Unclean !”. Such an approach to both clinical and mental diseases is both primitive and unenlightened. Similarly, standing on our little hills of self-righteousness and wringing our hands and moral bells over the evils of others and trying to define racialism does not provide any answers on what can be done about it. And picking at the ‘sores’ can merely make a condition worse.
Very true Michael, well written.
@Thabo Monare: Your supervisor’s position would be a problem if he had been given a PhD post and black PhDs had been turned down for that post. THAT was what the author was talking about. Get rid of AA and the moaning about unqualified blacks would stop immediately. Or at least implement AA as it was originally intended: the black candidate gets the post IF both candidates are otherwise equally qualified. AA only for the poor would be even better.
Look at that cesspit of AA-qualified people, the SABC: Every day we are reminded on TV and (at least on english language) radio that these people got their jobs because of their race, not because of their training. There is only one black woman that speaks well and thinks logically. No wonder DSTV is doing so well..
@ Kittykat, Ndlovu, Jobe: uneducated, racist responses.
@ Brent: spot on, education IS the key. I have met a few young well-educated blacks and the experience left me breathlessly happy.. Once they get through the system (if the bantu-educated ones ever let them) then there is hope for SA’s future! BUT the education system at present is in a HUGE mess, so how to get quality education to LOTS of people?
Racialism is different in south africa.
It will always be INTENSELY here because the majority of people are voting a party based on race BECAUSE their parents(peers) taught them to.
The test would be if they could accept an asian
as south african born
or if they could accept an asian
as president (having power/authority).
On ground level the answer would invariable
definitely be NO to both questions.
In other words the majority honestly do not want
this change.They never have and will never do.
What you see is what we getting.No more,no less.
What is a culture in KZN since I can remember visiting as a child 60years ago and even now in 2009 is that Indians (hindu/muslim/christian) love
to be derogatory towards asians specifically
chinese people.They not ashamed to do it and even
children as young as 6years of age are encouraged
by their “religious” parents to do so.!!!
So to all my fellow asians that plan to visit
South Africa/KZN factor this abuse in deciding
whether to visit south africa or not and get ready
when you visit to note this so that we can sue the
living daylights out of them.
steviewonder- I think you clearly have no idea about methodology on the social sciences. I find it strange that people often remark how academics do not know/ivory tower/etc based on their own ‘authentic’ experiences of being in the world. Yet most that use that critique do not actively engage the world beyond their immediate peers and social and work groups.
What I found when I lived in rural communities (one for two years) I found that race was not as important as people think it is. Attitude, etiquette, and behaviour was more important in these spaces. As social systems break down ideologues begin to impact on this and race is pushed to the forefront to suit political will of the elites. Unfortunately, the result is an increasingly polarised society as we see today.
Of course prejudices, racism and all that baggage cannot just be wished away or dismissed. I am arguing that those in charge or positions of influence should be moving past race as the organising feature of society. If not we can only expect more of the same. Those in positions to do so must not allow race to be centre stage.
I have critiqued so many students essays where they use Apartheid categories as real and meaningful categories. They use words such as black/white/etc without unpicking them so I send it back for more reading and more work with the hopes they see the constructed nature of the crude colour blocks. If not…?
“You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
Excellent stuff Michael. Kitty Kat, I echo Michael’s responses to your criticisms. You need to read more carefully and stop putting words in other people’s mouths. This is a common problem on Thought Leadership.
Michael, you make the case for real social justice that could surely uplift this country. AA should concentrate on the poor of all race and gender in our country. However, I think what irritates me the most about mostly white people in my country is that they not only want to erase race altogether. But they want to wipe and deny the inconvenient history. Pretend it never happened.
I wonder how many white people in SA read Mandela’s biography(since he’s their favorite) just to understand his experience. Would they view it as black propaganda?
The race debate can never be over or ignored not until such time that the ecomonic and social inequatiy has been addresses. We still find even thought white youths who never participated and benefited from Apartheid policies, etc(only their parents and grandparents?) but yet check out most of the social networks (facebooks, etc) and see how white youths hide behind the race issue. They hide behind preferences and culture so in that way you cannot ‘discriminate or blame them for their racist stance. So Michael, your studies in human relations/behaviour, does not hold any sway cos the race debate is real and Black people have been generous in their forgiveness of Whites who oppressed us and still continue to show no remorse and its business as usual.
I am surprised at your suggestion that “Real transformation of South African society will come when people unify as one, not in triumphalist nationalism, but when they see each other as truly equal.” Logically this is problematic.One of the ways in which we may recognize transformation is when we see each other as truly equal. Your statement then becomes a kind of redundancy saying that we will have transformation after we have transformation. logic aside, I have trouble with the implication that material transformation will follow from a change in mindset. We know apartheid was largely a racialised class system inherited from a prior dispensation and refined to include ethnic and cultural identity as part of the arsenal for reproducing and controlling a racially defined working class. While affirmative action is a poor instrument to fix this, I disagree with your mentalist alternative. The legislation that engineered white privilege may be gone, but the monster it created continues to be fed from the stock of disposable cheap labour it created. While the racial character of the monsters diet may be slowly changing due to affirmative action, the devastation it reeks on the bodies of the poor carries on unchecked. If we can call this monster South African capitalism and admit that its treasure is in instances identifiable as criminally obtained and maintained (was apartheid not a crime)then perhaps that monster should be made to pay for a transformation we want rather than us paying for the transformation it wants.
@Michael, I do not want to MXIT with you on this forum but seeing that you guys have all the answers. Other than what ANC has done and I go back to further than Codesa days. PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY to overcome our racist past to realise a NON-RACIAL NATION? I underline non-racial..
To state that some population has relatively more rights or is superior in certain respects, will always give cause for discontent; to say so particularly about racial groups –at least in the last half century- is most unpopular. Unless of course there’s a need to redress “past injustices”.
Locally, the electorate votes for the latter principle.
But contrary to Michael’s (and e.g. Louis’s) belief, affirmative action actually has a sound scientific base –if you support egalitarian principles. (See my second comment hereunder for the theoretical part of the argument.)
According to such levelling principles there is a practical, long term need to e.g. ask whites to produce a 92%- and blacks only a 75% Matric to enter medical school. If this would not be in place, there would be forever a disproportionately large number of white (and other non-African!) doctors in SA society.
Surely not a popular idea with our rulers!
By the way, I believe that in particular in the case of selecting medical students, by very carefully screening the candidates it should be possible to mitigate the lesser academic qualities of most black medical students –a good academic head only does not necessarily a good doctor make! If in any sector those doing the selecting have to be extremely responsible, it is in the field of medical tuition. We are not talking plumbing here…
Thus far the practical side of my comment; the intellectual part follows hereunder.
“Real transformation of South African society will come when people unify as one, not in triumphalist nationalism, but when they see each other as truly equal.”
This is a very noble statement, but the question you should be asking and actually based on the comments above is whether white South Africa is willing to come together and unify this country. You see you guys always fail to mention the fact that AA and BEE were made laws because “White Owned” corporate SA was not willing to transform itself let alone give blacks an opportunity to become players in the corporate SA. The question we need to ask ourselves is whether white South African’s are really now changed to a point of willing to work together with blacks and to see themselves as equals to blacks? Once we are sure of these things then I don’t see why we will be keeping AA and BEE as this country will be default over time transform itself and all can share in the wealth of this country and in the process make our economy stronger.
And someone please tell people that who likes to comment about how they did us a favour and voted for change in the early ninties to please tell the truth and say ir outright that they voted so because of preasure fromthe international community and not because they were now changed and were willing to accept blacks as equals and fellow countrymen? I have heard this comment
@Chriswildman - The comments are coming fast and furious and you expect me to be able to respond to each? Some of them are the regular trolls that deserve no comment as well. And your only remark is that I have not responded to comments. Perhaps you ought to enter the debate and say something meaningful.
When I state that the race debate is a dead end I mean just that. People continue to put up walls and barriers and defend these racial categories.
While we need to discuss the issues that have arose out of Apartheid’s brutal past, we must do so with a longer view of the future. To actually come to a non-racial society we must eliminate the legalisation of race as a category and that would mean a change to the constitution. It is not immutable as it has been changed already a few times and needs to do so in the future to accommodate all South Africans.
The current use of race does not benefit the majority (who happen to have dark skin) but an elite minority. I am arguing that a focus on poverty would do more for racial transformation than the current AA/BEE/etc that primarily benefits those who have already benefited.
@dre - When I said “Real transformation of South African society will come when people unify as one, not in triumphalist nationalism, but when they see each other as truly equal” is an oblique reference to the xenophobia where race was discounted as unifying and is not as logically fraught as you surmise. To see each other as equal does not mean the entire field needs to be leveled economically/etc to do so. We can legally recognise all humans as equal and acknowledge that their are socio-economic inequalities (and yes they did arise from the brutality of Apartheid) that need to be addressed. But again, the current practice benefits an elite who do not need a leg up.
Michael I am not sure where I fit in your categories of for or against AA.
I am white and middle class. I can’t come up with a better alternative to AA. How can we make it so that children of the previously advantaged have no advantage over children of the previously disadvantaged? Ok that is terribly worded!
I was very young when Apartheid ended, but my parents were wealthy enough to send me to an excellent government school, I had a lifestyle that supported me getting the best education I could. I have a huge advantage over a poor person living in poor stressful conditions, going to an ill-equipped school. My children will have similar advantages over theirs. How do we address this? AA appears to be the only way.
IF we as a nation can come up with a better way, then that is good. But we have to do something and for now as far as I can see, AA is the only way.
I do believe AA should be controlled so as not to actively sabotage companies, and give loads of training to less experienced staff. But until there is a better level of economic equality, I do not see how meritorious employment could work in SA.
The current race debate is driven largely by the fact that blacks resent the manner in which whites complain about the way this country is being governed. For the benefit of Dave Harris, Kitty Cat, Bravo, Tlanch, and others I will try and explain my position unambiguously as possible. I probably speak for quite a few white South Africans.
1. In 1994 most whites were a willing part of a process which handed the levers of state over to blacks
2. Almost immediately blacks mounted a concerted campaign to oust whites from all spheres of government and all linked associations such as ASA, ESKOM,etc. Fair enough
3. As a direct consequence government and associated organisations are now in total dissarray.There are no exceptions.
4. Whites (who are significant tax payers) complain about government in the context of declining standards, collapsing infrastructure, wasteful expenditure, corruption, dishonesty, incompetence, cronyism and anti white rhetoric.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the past but it has everything to do with the paradigm created post 1994 by the ANC and its supporters. When all South Africans start to realise that the current state of government is unacceptable by any normal standard then the racial debate will simply fizzle out.
In most of the G20 countries (of which South Africa is a member)the government would fall if they performed as poorly as the ANC. I find it quite remarkable that ANC supporters are happy with the status quo.
anton kleinschmidt on September 26th, 2009 at 7:15 am
Leave a reply?
Not on your Nelly, Michael you’ll do without me from now on.
If you don’t agree with me, without defending your side –fine
Delete half of my two-part text –less fine
But saying then things like: “Some of them are the regular trolls that deserve no comment as well”?
Bit too quick with your keyboard there to my liking; that was the last straw.
(I dare you to post this + my original second text, not alone!)
So, good luck with the “transformation” thing. (And if by some miracle I will be proven wrong, I’ll admit that gladly.)
Last one I promise, even if you delete this I cannot resist now that I am done here, I give you a sample of what a real troll would write:
“Real transformation of South African society will come when people unify as one, not in triumphalist nationalism, but when they see each other as truly equal”
Do you really think that ever such a condition will be even remotely met? Here in SA? The Israelis and the Palestinians will sooner be best chums. Nothing wrong with a bit of idealism, but please don’t write waste-of-time codswallop like that.
You don’t REALLY expect that to ever happen, do you now?
Sorry, ‘can’t help my self. Now that you managed to raise my hackles, I see you for what you truly are -not just a waste of time, far worse: a dishonest bullshitter.
That is to me a lower form of life.
Dre got you on an anomaly (”Your statement then becomes a kind of redundancy saying that we will have transformation after we have transformation.”) –fair and square.
But instead of ignoring that comment or admitting that Dre has a point, you to try to talk yourself out of it by adding a context that makes no sense or is in any way evident from what you wrote before –or after.
Your argument misses the point that AA and BBE is about transformation, and power. There is a struggle going on for economic power, this is simply the continuation of the struggle which achieved its first aim, namely political power.
Reasoning which reveals the problems with AA & BEE does not recognize the point that in order to make an omelet, you have to break eggs. There are many aspects of these policies which are demonstrably ineffective, but overall they turn the boat. The alternative to this is simple an asset grab such as nationalization or land grabs.
Accordingly analyzing the specific failings is missing the point, which is a political tool to effect economic power.
@anton kleinschmidt
Just like Michael Francis, your BS is full of inaccuracies and bias.
1. “willing part of a process which handed the levers of state over to blacks”
LOL, hardly, the the white regime was THREATHENED by the international community to change NOW or face a civil war. If they could keep the white gravy train going for another 50 year they surely would!
2. “oust whites from all spheres of government”
Whites still REFUSE to accept AA. just look at the stance of the DA. Most white-owned business still don’t adhere to AA and don’t really care about anything but the bottom line.
3. “As a direct consequence government and associated organisations are now in total dissarray”
Actually, its more the white incompetence in government from centuries of white AA has resulted in where we are today. They never thought of black rule, so they created systems that simply could not grow or expand to serve the entire SA population! ESKOM is a prime example of planning that should have taken place decades years ago!
continued… @anton kleinschmidt
4. “Whites (who are significant tax payers)”
Another white myth! Do you have the statistics to back this up. Only SARS can tell us which racial group pays the most in taxes. btw. What about all those CENTURIES of taxation without representation when the blacks had to pay their taxes for the benefit of the white gravy train? How about calculating the present day value of the blacks taxes that they did not derive ANY benefit from.
Isn’t SA part of the G20? Unlike a banana republic or the rotten-to-the-core corrupt apartheid government, SA have great economic and cultural relations with ALL the other G20 member countries? Didn’t you see how warmly SA (Jacob Zuma) is received by other countries now?
@Twannie & Po
I glad you saw through the BS. Good observations!
Michael Francis on September 27th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Twannie - I never delete posts. wordpress (the software used by TL) sometimes does not allow too many posts in sequence as it assumes you are double posting. Try reposting it and grow up a little.
FYI a troll is someone who ‘trolls’ the internet under an avatar (fake identity) posting rubbish to elicit responses. I was referring to those anonymous commentators who do not use their real name and spout vitriol and rubbish. If people have things to say they should have the confidence to say them openly or maybe they should double check their opinions if they themselves are so uncertain of them to say them publicly.
Po - There is no easy solution to the inequalities of South Africa. It is a sad reality that much of this will be with South Africa for a very long time. I do not believe that AA will not hasten or lessen the inequalities that have been historically transmitted. I think that only better education and economic growth overall will do so.
One idea: All scholarships and bursaries should be class-based to benefit the poor. The poor are disproportionately ‘black’ so racial transformation will be sped up. If rich blacks with access to resources and good schools are given scholarships then of course the poor that have access to rubbish schools cannot compete. Current programmes benefit a black elite and middle class who do not need transformation.
Professional jobs are sought by people that have advanced qualifications - they have already benefited from transformation and social/political change.
@Sunshine - You have stated some things correctly about the massification of higher education that compounds problems and ensures many of those working at universities while studying for a PhD are unable to find the time to do so. They are too busy working overtime to keep up with course loads. But that is another issue for another blog perhaps?
You had stated that I need to “Acknowledge privilege”. I think that is what I am doing. I do not see the need to have the rich continue to benefit. Lets acknowledge privilege and agree that any man with a PhD/MA/other professional qualification should be able to compete on their own merits. The fact that they have such qualifications shows they have experienced post 1994 transformation.
And as for trivializing Apartheid, I am not certain how one reads that into my blog. I never said anything about what life under Apartheid was like. I am arguing that to overcome that past cannot be achieved by reconstituting the racial groups as having salience.
Michael, I’m delighted that you include the indefatigable Dave Harris in the ‘not worth responding to’ category. He truly is a pompous man and his comments are so full of self certainty and delusion as to be only deserving of ignoring.
anton kleinschmidt on September 26th, 2009 at 7:15 am
1. In 1994 most whites were a willing part of a process which handed the levers of state over to blacks
- This right here is what I was talking about earlier. Dude! Get it into your head. You were not willingly doing this; it was pressure from the international community that made you do this. I wouldn’t be surprised if the results were changed by your leaders in order to make the change happen and lessen international pressure.
4. Whites (who are significant tax payers)
- I just love this part, remember whites are significant tax payers because of the privileges they had previously? Now imagine a South Africa where everyone can part take in the building of the country and blacks who are at least 80% of the population can pay tax. Imagine how prosperous our country will be. So how do we get to this situation when there is institutional racism in corporate SA that keeps making sure that blacks can only grow up to a certain extend?
And maybe to a certain extent you are right we blacks might be accepting some mediocre services from our government and you need to understand that based on our past that is understandable as we never used to have the opportunities to complain. Those my friends are “Some of the dilemma’s we have in transforming this country”.
My point was really that there is simply a changing of the guard at the top of what I think can be legitimately called Apartheid capitalism (characterised by the use of land and particularly the subordination of extra market means of subsistence to subsidize the reproductive costs of labour and thereby maximise the extraction of profit). In this regard I think we are in agreement - a new elite is benefiting off an old structure. The situation as i see it is that the extra market means of subsistence that were engineered as the crux of our labour market and its remuneration are intimately bound to the manufactured racial/cultural identities of South Africans (face and culture are regularly conflated in our society - culture is often a new euphemism for race). My feeling is that we thus occupy a field in which these categories and this conflation are being aggressively reproduced by an already in place capitalist order and its propaganda apparatus (the news media still perpetuates age old versions of tribalism through journalists and political analysts alike, the tourism industry celebrates ‘cultural’ heritage unreflexively and university students claim appeal to cultural differences and rights to keep residences homogenous). We need to confront the way in which identity has been entrenched in a natural productive order, and attack the new incarnations of an age old mythology of entitlement and destiny in order to decouple this from the production of class. for this I am sure we need to engage publically with race.
The constitution of self-identity is negatively expressed through exclusion: We are so, they are other. Race is a mode of self-identification which in SA also includes entitlement. One cannot see AA as compensation, although many beneficiaries do, nor can one see it as punitive, as harsh reality dictate we should see it as a market correction which should be aimed at the most marginal elements of society. While we talk of using the past to justify racial policies, we should remember that this has consequences. One of these days we will burn books, then we will burn bodies because so many believe the lies of politicians who cater to bigotry. We have never stopped to ask what percentage of violent crime is racially based or what attitudes on race really mean to the future. We are different, genetically, culturally, physiologically and cognitively. We need to acknowledge difference in order to redefine how we construct identity but so long as race buys a free lunch with other people’s money, race will be here to stay as an expedient convenience of bigots and avaricious megalomaniacs.
Anton Kleinschmidt-you are spewing venom and utter rubbish when you speak of white organisations employing mostly blacks-whom of course they would employ in large numbers so as to continue exploiting them as providers of cheap labour.
For you to claim that many blacks have been elevated to middle and senior management is false as I suggested before try and conduct research into the Banking and Insurance sectors, you will be shocked by not only promotions but by the huge salary disparities between blacks and their white,Indian and coloured conterparts doing the same job,of course with blacks having professional qualifications longer experience being subordinates to unqualified and less experienced whites.Of course this can only happen in Africa not in Europe,you will never find a blackman in charge of Europeans/whites.
Dre - I think we agree on many points but perhaps have talked past each other. As you have noticed I am engaging in the race debate even as I think it must be moved past and can only ever be a dead end of entitlement and exclusion. You are correct in stating that race and culture are conflated or act as euphemisms. How to move forward from a past of racial-capitalism without destroying the middle class (Kenya is not a good model) is a real issue.
You stated “We need to confront the way in which identity has been entrenched in a natural productive order, and attack the new incarnations of an age old mythology of entitlement and destiny in order to decouple this from the production of class”.
I agree, but it is also two way in that class is being conflated with race through the identity referent of ‘previously disadvantaged’, which is used to justify gross excesses and conspicuous consumption by the new (black) elite.
That is why I say help someone who is poor because they are poor not because they are of particular hue or group. The defense of the new racial order smacks of elite transition whereby capital continues unchecked and unhindered with new pigs at the trough.
@Tlanch Tau,
Actually whites agreed a long time before 1994 to hand the country over to black rule. There was a referendum of whites giving the OK to de Klerk to go ahead and negotiate for an election. Many overseas media at the time stating that it was equivalent to “turkeys voting for Christmas”.
The results of the referendum were overwhelming in supporting de Klerk, even in right wing Afrikaner areas.
Both sides realised that black rule was inevitable. That whites were possibly just being pragmatic is unprovable and beside the point. A civil war would have benefitted no-one, and I can assure you many more blacks than whites would have suffered.
Furthermore if you think the international community would have supported such a situation you are grossly mistaken.
The Cold War was over, the ANC’s powerful international allies were no longer a factor. MK was always a rag-tag army. Anyway the debate is fruitless.
@Tlanch Tau
“Now imagine a South Africa where everyone can part take in the building of the country and blacks who are at least 80% of the population can pay tax”.
Again rabbiting on about the past iniquities will get you nowhere.
Fact is it will take an educated workforce to reach such a situation. Only hard work and dedication to educationwill get us to that place.
I think we can all agree about the horrific treatment of blacks under apartheid, Bantu education being not least of it. However the present way of doing BEE and AA is not going to work either. It’s a long haul, and education is the answer. No easy answers Tlanch!
Bravo - Nobody can win with your attitude! By your reckoning if an organisation employs lots of ‘blacks’ they are exploited? Perhaps you should be more careful with your language?
Just imagine if England put in place policies that said AA for whites as England is predominantly white. What global outcry would there be; and such a policy would never get put into law because it is crude and unfair.
It is clear that you have not traveled beyond South Africa or know anything about Europe. There may be racism in Europe but not of the kind you suppose or to the extent implied.
To discuss how race correlates with poverty/etc is one thing but to simply decry ‘white’ people do this or that as you do is a racist attitude. Your use of race is crude and ignorant and the kind I deplore.
Even if there are problems in banking and insurance your use of race in such absolutes will never help. Also to assume blacks are overlooked seems presumptuous as you do keep asking people to do research on the topic so it is clear you do not actually know. I know a black banker and he doesn’t suffer nor need a handout/up. Your screams for immediate transformation smacks of personal vendetta and desire and not institutionalized racism.
@Jeff
“Actually whites agreed a long time before 1994 to hand the country over to black rule.”
It must be that Durban ganja kicking in again.
“However the present way of doing BEE and AA is not going to work either.”
BEE needs to be overhauled.
AA has been remarkably successful in uplifting previously disadvantaged communities in US, India, UK, Australia, New Zealand…
@Michael Francis
“I know a black banker and he doesn’t suffer nor need a handout/up.”
A black banker in Canada! My goodness, I’m sure the Canadian Government must have declared him to be a tourist attraction. btw. I trust your latest “SA white refugee” Brandon Huntley is settling in bracing himself for the looong Canadian winter ahead!
My Dear Doctor
Even though I have not been to Europe I have relatives who live and work there only as nurses and teachers- the jobs that are not desired by the natives of Europe,especially nursing whose are usually confined to old people’s homes cleaning and washing their linen and their bottoms.
By the way you well-travelled doctor may you give us an example of a black person(African) that heads a big company in Europe or Canada.
@Bravo - please do actually read blogs you comment on. I am against the unconditional support of privilege that is currently supported by AA/BEE. To reiterate, a focus on poverty instead of race would hasten racial transformation. Your crude casting of race in absolutes is of no help to anyone. Your statements are themselves racist as you keep stating ‘white’ do this and that/etc. These crude categories need to be moved beyond as defining categories or South Africa will remain mired in racial mistrust, violence and poverty for the majority.
@Bravo - when I travel I am usually found in the pub, museum or up the side of a mountain I rarely hobnob with CEOs of major companies. Tidjane Thiam would not meet with me last time I was in the UK. I guess he was too busy on the FTSE.
And I am horrified that you think being a teacher or a nurse is a bad profession. All work is noble and caring for the ill should be especially respected. I proudly tell people my mother is a nurse and she worked as a janitor to pay for university when she was into her 40s.
@ Michael….after a break of a week since my last post I have now come to the conclusion that this debate (and many more like it) is quite pointless in the face of such willful ignorance on the part of the Bravo’s and Dave Harris’s of the world.
anton kleinschmidt on October 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 am
Hi Michael, I think this discussion may be dead now but I only just saw your response.
The black middle class did not really exist before AA. They benefited from transformation. It is unrealistic to imagine that every single person will be equal in this new democracy, unfortunately. It is better that more rather than few benefit, but some is better than none.
The problem I have with your idea of scholarships is that it ignores entire generations of people too old to benefit from scholarships. If we wait for the benefits of those on scholarships to elevate the poor out of poverty, we will be waiting many years before their advantages are passed down to their kids. What about adults who missed the scholarship boat? Is it just tough takkie for them? People want change now, they do not want to have to wait. AA at least reaches some people who would not have benefited before. In an ideal world I would agree with your method, but people want results now, and why should they not? The black middle class has swelled considerably as a result of AA, and this is at least something.
@Po on October 3rd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Very true indeed. That is the issue with these people. It’s funny how they are quick to talk about 14 year or so having gone by and that it’s time to get rid of AA and BEE but they come up with ideas that will take forever for implement or for them to start making transformation happen.
On one of his responses Michael(The Aurthor) mentioned that AA should include everyone poor including whites, but he forgets that when that happens the so called poor whites will be the focus and blacks will not be participants anymore. He should have heard that by now white women are the most beneficiaries of EE. Why is that? One of the most touching photos from the struggle days was of a middle aged man in the 60’s with a placard that read “Freedom in our Lifetime” I always asked myself if it ever happened or if he died before 1994. Hope that he made it, but I don’t believe we should now just sit and say that the next generation will be the beneficiaries of our democracy. Some of us have burdens of the past and at age 28 we not just ourselves to look after but we have families and extended families that we need to look after due to the past injustices.
@Po and Tlanch Tau,
My father was a coalminer in the UK in the Great Depression of the 1930’s. My mother was a domestic worker for the local doctor. My two sisters, who were older than me, both worked in factories.
We Were poor. No indoor toilet, no bathroom, no phone, no car, a lean-to kitchen.
Then I got lucky. The Labour Party came into power after the war. My father said to me: “It’s too late for the rest of the family, but you can get an education. Neithet of parents could read or write properly. My father’s health was ruined in the mines, at 35 he could hardly breathe.
In short, yes it is too late for the older black generation. That’s just the way the world works. The best they can hope for is to get their children educated and get into the middle-class. My family lived and died in a little miner’s cottage, but were grateful that I could be educated and enter the middle-class, and get out of the cycle of poverty. Why would you think anything different would be possible here. It takes time to build up a middle-class.
Get over your victim attitude and read some social history of what conditions were like in Europe for the working classes. Who do you think did all the menial and dangerous jobs in Europe. It was white people. Exploitation is exploitation.
Mike francis
I don’t believe anybody has given a example to make you understand that its not just about scrapping AA and BEE and focusing on the poor masses…your meritocratic ideals and classist perspective is credible however neglects certain truths…
Let Tokyo sexwale (rich black BEE beneficiary) go for a late night stroll around or through one of those gated (white) communities in Jo burg or one of the few in cape town. Regardless of the fact that his a billionaire, his black ass will get checked by the patrolling ADT car or the (black) security at at the gate (hopefully his well dressed and didn’t get outa bed looking “too black”)..He is rich, stinking rich…However still very much vulnerable to RACISM…Does that make sense to you…Scrap BEE those black elites who are the worst of all i agree, however white racism is ever enduring…like yourself many people are adopting a classist perspective on the whole thing which deflects from the truth that whites are consciously or unconsciously still rotten towards many blacks…Thats why an otherwise well thought piece as you one you delivered here can quite easily be discredited due to the very fact that Sexwale will get asked by the ADT guard, ‘can i help you’….
Well - tell that to Eugene Terrablanche and his now reviving AWB. Their recent infamous statements:
“As the meeting wore on, speakers grew increasingly blunt. “I’m not speaking emotionally, I’m speaking scientifically,” Strauss said.
“The African person is genetically programmed for destruction. Everything he touches, he destroys.”
Another speaker, a former director of the Medical University of South Africa Dr Lem Theron, said South Africa’s blacks had never seen a wheel before the Voortrekkers pushed into the interior with their wagons.
“The first paper they saw was the Bibles they took from the wagons after they killed the Voortrekkers,” Theron said. “The closest they came to brain surgery was beating the Voortrekkers’ heads in with knobkerries. Their only engineering achievement was to hitch a plough onto an ox. They have just celebrated Heritage Day - the only heritage their ancestors left them was a couple of clay pots.”
It really makes one not know whether to laugh or cry. One just wonders whether some of these white people really care about their future and that of their children’s in Africa.
I mean, it is the whites who have far much more to lose than the blacks in the event of a race war. The majority of blacks are not propertied. They are poor, and far outnumber whites tenfold. Poverty and sufferring is not new to them and yet it will indeed be new to many whites, should they not be careful or mind what they are asking for. Mugabe?
Jeff: some of my ancestors were working class English too, I get it, don’t worry. The point is specifically trying to redress the wrongs of Apartheid in this case. You try telling the majority of South Africans that “it is too late for them”. The government relies on those people for votes, so they have to do something about the problem. Surely the ANC is “for the people”, including the older generations?
Unfortunately Apartheid created an unusual situation which needs to be repaired. Therefore AA is part of the way the world works. The Part of the crime problem in SA is that people get tired of waiting for wealth that sits in their faces every day. The situation in SA calls for something to be done. Would you prefer more violent forms of redistribution than those already going on?
There are many instances of victim mentality in SA but I would argue that the support of AA is not one of them. AA does not advocate that a miner suddenly become the CEO of a company. If applied correctly it advocates that amongst people qualified for the job, a previously disadvantaged person is favoured.
By the way Britain is this very year in the process of deciding on a policy of AA, aimed partly at redressing class inequalities. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30438609/
@Po,
This redress is way to late for my family, they are now all dead. Only I remain. Just like my father told me. Thing is my father never expected redress and restitution. He accepted the fact that the world is unfair for most people, usually the poor. All he wanted is a fair chance for me. I took it and ended up with a good university degree.
I actually have little problem with AA the way it is supposed to work. However the ANC promise the poor the world, then positions are given to loyal members, and not on any form of merit.
I would like to see free education and affordable health care for those who need it. Unfortunately I don’t think SA is in a position to provide this on a sustainable basis. It has proved to be hugely problematic in many countries who are better off than SA in many ways. The road will be long and hard. That is the way it was for the exploited worker in the UK and it is likely to be even longer here, owing to the country’s past.
I don’t see there is anything to be gained by these promises. Peoples’ expectations will be unfulfilled and they get a sense that everything will be provided free. The system will fail them because it is an impossible dream.
@ Jeff on October 7th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I agree with some of the stuff you say about the ANC and the empty promised. But I don’t get why you had to mention them just after talking about AA when you are supposed to be either talking about way of improving it’s implementation if you really do believe it’s needed.
And like I said, AA is needed not just to level the playing field but to make sure that exploitation doesn’t happen going forward. We know that a lot of people in SA are narrow minded and the moment you get rid of it you will find that blacks are now exploited again and the very poor whites that Michael is talking about end up benefiting more than the blacks. All we are asking for is a non racist SA where people will be given equal opportunities.
@Tlanch Tau,
From 1989-1999 I worked in for the Western Cape Education Dept. I used to upset some of my colleagues, when I pointed out that AA was no different to what the NP had done for Afrikaners after 1948. I suppose one could say similar about the English speakers before 1948, but I am not conversant with that period.
You and I could probably agree on a number of things about exploitation, be it based on class or skin colour. Again if you have a different culture to the exploiter you are likely to suffer more.
The point I was trying to make is that my father’s generation of workers was never promised any sort of restitution for being exploited, and he never expected it. They knew they couldn’t get jobs just because they had been exploited. I feel the ANC takes advantage of people who, through no fault of their own have very little, and get made ridiculous promises about houses, education, healthcare, whatever. They then get a sense of entitlement, and I think it is amoral to give people these expectations, because I suspect the ANC know they cannot deliver on these promises. I believe education is the long term answer, as people will then become employable. There is no quick fix.
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I am a cultural anthropologist at Athabasca University who writes about ethnicity, identity and social change in a globalised Southern Africa. I am fascinated by the way in which people find and create their 'identity' in this rapidly changing world. Processes of cultural creativity and regeneration of histories was stark in Southern Africa , but I have found that returning to Canada I was shocked to find the familiar strange and when in Africa to see the strange as familiar. I started to see patterns of life that had once been unsee-able and just matter of fact ways of doing things. I enjoy seeing the patterns of life that inform us; the tropes of life that are silently transmitted from our past. And in our increasingly mass-mediated world how these are visualized, transmitted and transformed.
I have worked with Zulu speakers in the Drakensberg Mountains who claim dual identities of San and Zulu as well as different San communities in South Africa and Botswana. I have a deep love and respect for these rural communities who have been kind, welcome places for me since 2002 when I first moved to South Africa. I am sad to have left South Africa, but will return each year for research and to visit my friends.
I am a pacifist, but love a good verbal fight. My pacifism is based on reason and logic and not religious or spiritual beliefs. If I am not to be found in my office look high up in the mountains as I may be there seeking solace from the cruelty of the world.
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