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	<title>Comments on: There is no housing crisis in South Africa</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/</link>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-77399</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-77399</guid>
		<description>Very interesting dialogue. Most rational governments try to get the maximum return for their investment Rands. It is a very trying situation in South Africa, as the country can develop from rural and urban development. (Throw political decisions into the fray, and it becomes more complicated).

I sometimes think we are misled by ourselves. There is something called a &#039;Fundamental Attribution Error&#039; and, although this isn&#039;t the perfect application, we should think very carefully before speaking about what people want. I imagine there are a lot of people who come to the city who would prefer to stay in a rural area. There are certainly many who live in cities who would love to live in a rural setting.

One thing is for certain though, we don&#039;t need most of the things we think we need. As U2 so aptly put it, &#039;you don&#039;t need what you haven&#039;t got&#039; But I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll be convincing many people of that until they see scores of people giving up what they already have. It would be better for our planet.

While I think we have many crises here, I don&#039;t think we should forget the work we can do on the human heart. It costs the least and produces the most results. I&#039;ll work on the heart, you guys work on the development. I&#039;ll do my best, I hope you will too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting dialogue. Most rational governments try to get the maximum return for their investment Rands. It is a very trying situation in South Africa, as the country can develop from rural and urban development. (Throw political decisions into the fray, and it becomes more complicated).</p>
<p>I sometimes think we are misled by ourselves. There is something called a &#8216;Fundamental Attribution Error&#8217; and, although this isn&#8217;t the perfect application, we should think very carefully before speaking about what people want. I imagine there are a lot of people who come to the city who would prefer to stay in a rural area. There are certainly many who live in cities who would love to live in a rural setting.</p>
<p>One thing is for certain though, we don&#8217;t need most of the things we think we need. As U2 so aptly put it, &#8216;you don&#8217;t need what you haven&#8217;t got&#8217; But I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll be convincing many people of that until they see scores of people giving up what they already have. It would be better for our planet.</p>
<p>While I think we have many crises here, I don&#8217;t think we should forget the work we can do on the human heart. It costs the least and produces the most results. I&#8217;ll work on the heart, you guys work on the development. I&#8217;ll do my best, I hope you will too.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod MacKenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-75056</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod MacKenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-75056</guid>
		<description>&quot;The crisis is a lack of jobs and support for rural spaces. If South Africa focused its energy on rural spaces the poor and desperate would not flock to the slums seeking a better life.&quot; Flock to the slums is a frightening, disturbing oxymoron. So well put.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The crisis is a lack of jobs and support for rural spaces. If South Africa focused its energy on rural spaces the poor and desperate would not flock to the slums seeking a better life.&#8221; Flock to the slums is a frightening, disturbing oxymoron. So well put.</p>
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		<title>By: japes</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74983</link>
		<dc:creator>japes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74983</guid>
		<description>Why does almost everyone say &quot;massive investment&quot;? Not really. Just clever, organised, honest, competent, skilled investment, mainly in human capital.

None of which SA seems to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does almost everyone say &#8220;massive investment&#8221;? Not really. Just clever, organised, honest, competent, skilled investment, mainly in human capital.</p>
<p>None of which SA seems to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Rory Short</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74792</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74792</guid>
		<description>Minimum effort for maximum return drives human decision making and consequent human behaviour. 

The density of urban living potetially provides a solution, to this human need, for urban dwellers provided that they have the money. Money is obtained through employment, if you can get it. The chances of obtaining employment are far greater in an urban area.

Massive investements would need to be made in rural areas to create these kind of conditions for rural dwellers and Michael recognises this. However government policy has, up until now, not looked at rural development in this way at all. I see Michael&#039;s blog as a plea for a much needed change in the direction of government&#039;s rural policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minimum effort for maximum return drives human decision making and consequent human behaviour. </p>
<p>The density of urban living potetially provides a solution, to this human need, for urban dwellers provided that they have the money. Money is obtained through employment, if you can get it. The chances of obtaining employment are far greater in an urban area.</p>
<p>Massive investements would need to be made in rural areas to create these kind of conditions for rural dwellers and Michael recognises this. However government policy has, up until now, not looked at rural development in this way at all. I see Michael&#8217;s blog as a plea for a much needed change in the direction of government&#8217;s rural policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Price</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74778</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74778</guid>
		<description>Well voiced indeed, a great deal of sense spoken here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well voiced indeed, a great deal of sense spoken here.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74720</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74720</guid>
		<description>Perry, 
I read the article and space does not let me answer in full. It raises some really valid points even if it is dated (1983).  What I think the problem is that it is largely based on large empirical studies that fail to acknowledge that the improvements they discuss in rural spaces are actually really marginal improvements and again based on agriculture.  

The green revolution in Asia also referred to saw the creation of more land for farming but also a consolidation of peasant farms into large business ventures.  This then ‘freed’ up the poor to move to urban centres.  So on paper it showed rural improvement in actual jobs and overall income but also closed down small producers.  I recommend James Scott (1985) Weapons of the Weak for more information. 

What the article also fails to acknowledge is that during the late 70s and early 80s many of the countries it uses as examples that were developing rural spaces were also doing massive amounts of industrialisation in the city centres.  

It also misses that often the improvements in rural spaces are not shared evenly and often the benefits are very marginal for the rural poor. 

I am arguing for incentives for businesses and real development beyond peasant agriculture (land reform as done now).  

It is happening in developed states as businesses move to rural spaces and we see mixed areas of industry and farming.  The trick is to not mess with the reserves or create rural ghettos.  

alas space...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perry,<br />
I read the article and space does not let me answer in full. It raises some really valid points even if it is dated (1983).  What I think the problem is that it is largely based on large empirical studies that fail to acknowledge that the improvements they discuss in rural spaces are actually really marginal improvements and again based on agriculture.  </p>
<p>The green revolution in Asia also referred to saw the creation of more land for farming but also a consolidation of peasant farms into large business ventures.  This then ‘freed’ up the poor to move to urban centres.  So on paper it showed rural improvement in actual jobs and overall income but also closed down small producers.  I recommend James Scott (1985) Weapons of the Weak for more information. </p>
<p>What the article also fails to acknowledge is that during the late 70s and early 80s many of the countries it uses as examples that were developing rural spaces were also doing massive amounts of industrialisation in the city centres.  </p>
<p>It also misses that often the improvements in rural spaces are not shared evenly and often the benefits are very marginal for the rural poor. </p>
<p>I am arguing for incentives for businesses and real development beyond peasant agriculture (land reform as done now).  </p>
<p>It is happening in developed states as businesses move to rural spaces and we see mixed areas of industry and farming.  The trick is to not mess with the reserves or create rural ghettos.  </p>
<p>alas space&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74702</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74702</guid>
		<description>You are making the same mistake the ANC made, planning for present population, not future population.

Even with AIDS and wars, most countries in Africa have their populations increasing by 3% per annum ( 30% per decade ). 50 years ago there were few sluma and few squatter camps around the colonial cities of Africa. Now they all have them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are making the same mistake the ANC made, planning for present population, not future population.</p>
<p>Even with AIDS and wars, most countries in Africa have their populations increasing by 3% per annum ( 30% per decade ). 50 years ago there were few sluma and few squatter camps around the colonial cities of Africa. Now they all have them.</p>
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		<title>By: japes</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74670</link>
		<dc:creator>japes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74670</guid>
		<description>Angela,

Also a very nice theory but go and have a look at these areas then come up with practical and technically viable solutions to what you propose. Let alone finacially viable. Absolutely provide access to services but some very much more fundamental changes (land ownership, traditional leadership) have to be made first. That ain&#039;t gonna happen anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela,</p>
<p>Also a very nice theory but go and have a look at these areas then come up with practical and technically viable solutions to what you propose. Let alone finacially viable. Absolutely provide access to services but some very much more fundamental changes (land ownership, traditional leadership) have to be made first. That ain&#8217;t gonna happen anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: brigs</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74648</link>
		<dc:creator>brigs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74648</guid>
		<description>Good point. Another thought on the matter which may be driving urbanization to some extent,is the increased number of land redistribution, and the long process involved in such processes. Large area&#039;s of our country in formally busy farming areas are currently lying fallow due to farmers feeling there is no point in cultivating land they will not own. Which leads to less farm worker required which, leads to more people moving to the cities. Amongst other rural developmental  issues</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point. Another thought on the matter which may be driving urbanization to some extent,is the increased number of land redistribution, and the long process involved in such processes. Large area&#8217;s of our country in formally busy farming areas are currently lying fallow due to farmers feeling there is no point in cultivating land they will not own. Which leads to less farm worker required which, leads to more people moving to the cities. Amongst other rural developmental  issues</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-74601</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/michaelfrancis/2009/03/16/there-is-no-housing-crisis-in-south-africa/#comment-74601</guid>
		<description>To propose rural development does not mean all rural people should farm. 

It means that we should spend money and resources on developing infrastructures which would support ALL FORMS OF BUSINESS in rural areas. (And rural does not necessarily mean just the wilderness, but also areas which do not fall under the geographical boundaries of our medium- and larger-sized cities). 

Put in efficient road transport systems to ease and facilitate the trade in and out of these areas. Set up wireless broadband networks across our country which are fast and affordable. Build efficient and modern schools, community centres and clinics/hospitals in these areas so that people are not forced to travel far distances for what should be basic rights and services.

20 years ago our fathers worked in offices because the nature of their world required it. Today I run a business from my home because of the advent of high speed internet connectionsand laptops. The previous reliance on office infrastructure is slowly changing to self-reliance in a home office environment. And I am one of many hundreds of thousands.

So the idea is not a return to apartheid-era separate development but rather that we should consider a new way of working and living which dovetails with the world&#039;s approach to sustainable living and development. The way things are at the moment are clearly not working and instead of climbing onto our high horses maybe we should keep an open mind to new possibilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To propose rural development does not mean all rural people should farm. </p>
<p>It means that we should spend money and resources on developing infrastructures which would support ALL FORMS OF BUSINESS in rural areas. (And rural does not necessarily mean just the wilderness, but also areas which do not fall under the geographical boundaries of our medium- and larger-sized cities). </p>
<p>Put in efficient road transport systems to ease and facilitate the trade in and out of these areas. Set up wireless broadband networks across our country which are fast and affordable. Build efficient and modern schools, community centres and clinics/hospitals in these areas so that people are not forced to travel far distances for what should be basic rights and services.</p>
<p>20 years ago our fathers worked in offices because the nature of their world required it. Today I run a business from my home because of the advent of high speed internet connectionsand laptops. The previous reliance on office infrastructure is slowly changing to self-reliance in a home office environment. And I am one of many hundreds of thousands.</p>
<p>So the idea is not a return to apartheid-era separate development but rather that we should consider a new way of working and living which dovetails with the world&#8217;s approach to sustainable living and development. The way things are at the moment are clearly not working and instead of climbing onto our high horses maybe we should keep an open mind to new possibilities.</p>
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