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	<title>Comments on: Goodbye liberty, hello police state</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/</link>
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		<title>By: sample walkway mag</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-126254</link>
		<dc:creator>sample walkway mag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-126254</guid>
		<description>[...] previously questioned the desire to make the police a force to be reckoned with and feared — “goodbye liberty, hello police state” — I think I’ve changed my mind. I’m all for the militarisation of the police if it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previously questioned the desire to make the police a force to be reckoned with and feared — “goodbye liberty, hello police state” — I think I’ve changed my mind. I’m all for the militarisation of the police if it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97712</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The problem with the police arriving unannounced at my door is that I do trust them as far as I can pee.These guys even visit the local shabeen.  To me one in uniform does not guarantee that he is ligit. Rather safe than sorry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the police arriving unannounced at my door is that I do trust them as far as I can pee.These guys even visit the local shabeen.  To me one in uniform does not guarantee that he is ligit. Rather safe than sorry</p>
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		<title>By: MLH</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97670</link>
		<dc:creator>MLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-97670</guid>
		<description>&#039;Counter-productive&#039; describes so well almost everything going on about us just now. Good word, Marius. Good thoughts, Marius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Counter-productive&#8217; describes so well almost everything going on about us just now. Good word, Marius. Good thoughts, Marius.</p>
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		<title>By: Marius</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97659</link>
		<dc:creator>Marius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-97659</guid>
		<description>Hey there fellas. The police have certainly made inroads into military crimes like CIT heists and gang armed robbery. I say we should give it some time. Desperate times call for desperate measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there fellas. The police have certainly made inroads into military crimes like CIT heists and gang armed robbery. I say we should give it some time. Desperate times call for desperate measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97612</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-97612</guid>
		<description>Great article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.</p>
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		<title>By: Kit</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97604</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-97604</guid>
		<description>So police are supposedly going to be allowed to pop up announced on people&#039;s private property because &#039;otherwise we can&#039;t get woman and child abusers&#039;.

I just had a vision of a dozen guys clad in paramilitary uniform, flak jackets and ammo belts kicking down doors, running into quiet houses at night and waking the women and kids up with a cacophony of swearing and a couple of taps with a rifle butt to get them outside, lined up shocked and shivering in their PJs, so they can search the house for &#039;abusers&#039;.  It reminds me of something we&#039;ve seen somewhere before.

A bit of an illogical argument this, on a few counts.  One is that policemen can already enter private property - the whole &#039;exigent circumstances&#039; argument.  If a policeman believes that a serious crime is in progress, they can enter a house even by means of breaking doors or windows, to stop the crime and arrest the perpetrator.  Another is that police will drop a case if the victim can&#039;t or won&#039;t testify - and this is often the case.  I fail to see where these new, &#039;improved&#039; powers will achieve anything other than open up a new entertainment of lawful breaking and entering for the police force.  Also, when just nipping into your house for fun, when they find nothing, do they have to lock it up again?  If not, they might as well just take the stuff before the skollies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So police are supposedly going to be allowed to pop up announced on people&#8217;s private property because &#8216;otherwise we can&#8217;t get woman and child abusers&#8217;.</p>
<p>I just had a vision of a dozen guys clad in paramilitary uniform, flak jackets and ammo belts kicking down doors, running into quiet houses at night and waking the women and kids up with a cacophony of swearing and a couple of taps with a rifle butt to get them outside, lined up shocked and shivering in their PJs, so they can search the house for &#8216;abusers&#8217;.  It reminds me of something we&#8217;ve seen somewhere before.</p>
<p>A bit of an illogical argument this, on a few counts.  One is that policemen can already enter private property &#8211; the whole &#8216;exigent circumstances&#8217; argument.  If a policeman believes that a serious crime is in progress, they can enter a house even by means of breaking doors or windows, to stop the crime and arrest the perpetrator.  Another is that police will drop a case if the victim can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t testify &#8211; and this is often the case.  I fail to see where these new, &#8216;improved&#8217; powers will achieve anything other than open up a new entertainment of lawful breaking and entering for the police force.  Also, when just nipping into your house for fun, when they find nothing, do they have to lock it up again?  If not, they might as well just take the stuff before the skollies.</p>
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		<title>By: Perry Curling-Hope</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97595</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry Curling-Hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/#comment-97595</guid>
		<description>Certainly sobering trends, Marius.

Looks like the ANC are determined to ape everything the U.S. Federal government enacts and does, despite ostensibly rejecting everything &#039;Western&#039; as being inappropriate within the &#039;African&#039; context.

Like here, there is the growing realisation, (unfortunately still, like here, by a minority), that civil liberties of the U.S. citizen are being eroded by the inexhorable growth of the Federal Police State.
There is the effective suspension of the constitutional &#039;Posse Comitatus&#039; provisions forbidding military action againsed the civilian population, through the application of paramilitary &#039;SWAT&#039; assult teams breaking down peoples doors in the dead of night, shooting (to kill) first and asking questions later in &#039;No Knock&#039; raids.
These raids are executed against technical &#039;victimless crimes&#039; most often involving drug possession or use.

Like has happened here, such heavy handed, violent and arbitary breach of our citizens basic rights has and will continue to lead to tragic consequences for innocent civilians.

A ruling freeing our Police &#039;Services&#039; from any indemnity resulting from &#039;entering private property without permission&#039; removes legal impediment to the development of similar brutal paramilitary No Knock raids, and does not bode well for the remaining freedoms which have not been encroached upon already.

It is the administration whose effectiveness and legitimacy is falling under question which starts &#039;getting tough&#039; with its own constituents it is supposedly bound so &#039;serve&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly sobering trends, Marius.</p>
<p>Looks like the ANC are determined to ape everything the U.S. Federal government enacts and does, despite ostensibly rejecting everything &#8216;Western&#8217; as being inappropriate within the &#8216;African&#8217; context.</p>
<p>Like here, there is the growing realisation, (unfortunately still, like here, by a minority), that civil liberties of the U.S. citizen are being eroded by the inexhorable growth of the Federal Police State.<br />
There is the effective suspension of the constitutional &#8216;Posse Comitatus&#8217; provisions forbidding military action againsed the civilian population, through the application of paramilitary &#8216;SWAT&#8217; assult teams breaking down peoples doors in the dead of night, shooting (to kill) first and asking questions later in &#8216;No Knock&#8217; raids.<br />
These raids are executed against technical &#8216;victimless crimes&#8217; most often involving drug possession or use.</p>
<p>Like has happened here, such heavy handed, violent and arbitary breach of our citizens basic rights has and will continue to lead to tragic consequences for innocent civilians.</p>
<p>A ruling freeing our Police &#8216;Services&#8217; from any indemnity resulting from &#8216;entering private property without permission&#8217; removes legal impediment to the development of similar brutal paramilitary No Knock raids, and does not bode well for the remaining freedoms which have not been encroached upon already.</p>
<p>It is the administration whose effectiveness and legitimacy is falling under question which starts &#8216;getting tough&#8217; with its own constituents it is supposedly bound so &#8216;serve&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Sello</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mariusredelinghuys/2009/10/14/goodbye-liberty-hello-police-force/comment-page-1/#comment-97539</link>
		<dc:creator>Sello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I could not agree more with the sentiments you espouse. The last thing we need is a police state reminiscent of the apartheid era where human life was not respected. It&#039;s now bad enough that we have to fear the criminals, but now we have to fear the police as well. I think that puts us as the &quot;law-abiding public&quot; in a very intolerable position. We now have to look over our shoulders for fear of both the good and the bad guys and this is surely not desirable. This is not the constitutional democratic state that our founders envisioned in 1994 - otherwise they would not have inserted section 12 of our constitution (i.e. right to safety and security of the person). Fighting fire with fire is very counter-productive and will surely only gnaw at those hard-won civil liberties we secured for ourselves as a country very much willing to move forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could not agree more with the sentiments you espouse. The last thing we need is a police state reminiscent of the apartheid era where human life was not respected. It&#8217;s now bad enough that we have to fear the criminals, but now we have to fear the police as well. I think that puts us as the &#8220;law-abiding public&#8221; in a very intolerable position. We now have to look over our shoulders for fear of both the good and the bad guys and this is surely not desirable. This is not the constitutional democratic state that our founders envisioned in 1994 &#8211; otherwise they would not have inserted section 12 of our constitution (i.e. right to safety and security of the person). Fighting fire with fire is very counter-productive and will surely only gnaw at those hard-won civil liberties we secured for ourselves as a country very much willing to move forward.</p>
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