Comments on: Googleocracy

By: Gary

Gary — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:38:27 +0000

Mandy, I’ve been following these threads for some time now. I am not an agency but rather a client of Google (i.e. an advertiser) who got rid of the agency we were using because of the smoke and mirror tactics they imposed with this supposedly “complex” Google Adwords system. (FYI: we met with Stafford and his Google South Africa team recently to discuss all this controversy so I have some insight from their side and it’s interesting how different this all looks when you listen to them) Yes, I am also an avid Google follower and fan! I recently broke my silence on Sean Riley’s blog which is almost completely dedicated to attacking Google. IMHO, it is completely ridiculous! It is amazing how emotionally, vigorously and viciously this CEO of Entelligence reacts to all these blogs and articles. I read both your articles on ITWeb and to be honest, it is amazing how much face time you give Sean Riley and how all your comments revolve around his opinions. Considering his complaints commission submission I would say that anything he has to say still has to be proven. My understanding is that the complaints commission found his accusations about Google being anti-competitive in the SA market, without any merit, yet you still post his comments. I agree with your response to his comments on this thread regarding regulating Google, that would be ridiculous! There are so many accusations you also pose and if you are truly an investigative neutral journalist, these articles and postings don’t really reflect it. Here is my input on your blog above : You mention that Masie allegedly wanted to manipulate the media because two people claim he offered them entrance into this off the record closed group (a “cabal of journalists”). Has any of these off the record “cabal” briefings been held? If so, where? when? I am sure there are journalists/writers out there who attended and that would help justify your commentary in this regard? Without proof of any of this, you statements are simply accusing and creating a stir where there is none (and judging by Mr. Riley’s response it results in great drama, drum rolling and no act). I concur with that guys comments about Google Earth and terrorism. LOL! Btw, have you seen how much Google Earth has helped during Katrina Hurricane crisis? Myanmar floods? China earthquake? LA fires? Darfur crisis? Global Warming awareness? Investigate Mandy and provide some neutral perspective(s) please! Could you really not find any single one agency positive about their dealings with Google? Not even one? I am sure if you did investigate you would find an agency in South Africa that works well with them and why. But hey, that would be boring and would kill the overall affect you’ve created. Regarding Google being a “behemoth” in South Africa; Mandy, South Africa has less than 5 million internet users and just about 1 million of 48 million is on broadband according to Arthur Goldstuck at Worldwide Worx. I find the term “behemoth” in the context of SA truly hilarious! Yahoo! recently posted that they have 35% marketshare of people searching in the country. I think if we combined that with Microsoft, Search24 (Naspers) and the other local competitors, you will find that the market is still not Google’s playground and they do not have the sway you’re making us believe. Investigate Mandy, please! You claim that you spoke to Masie and he had no plans for skills transfer to PDI’s. Ok Mandy, but is your story about abuse of market dominance or BEE? If it is about BEE and skills transfer of PDI’s then let us first look at the state of the Advertising BEE charter. The thing is still an immature work in progress so there are no particular guidelines or metrics to steer the industry in the right direction. I just reviewed the DTI website and discovered that a proposed charter was published in August of this year (Media, Advertising and Communication M (MAC) sector charter on Black Economic Charter- 29 August 2008 No 31371) So is it fair to expect Google South Africa to have an extensive BEE strategy within this context? Should we load the BEE burden on their shoulders when the industry itself has no direction in this regard? I guess mixing BEE with Google’s name makes for, again, smoke, drum rolling and no resultant! Investigate and add substance Mandy else it all just looks like throwing blind punches. Also, did Masie’s comments not mention free training and certification for all agencies to be made available next year? Someone commented on your Itweb article about there being two charters related to Google South Africa, the ICT and Advertising charter. An interesting angle to investigate would be whether Google will align with both or one of these, if they ever materialize! Note, when we met the Google SA team recently we asked them to respond more clearly to all of this. What I do find a shambles is their silence on these matters. It clearly not helping their cause. Stafford and team, I am a lonely island out here – you people better set the record straight with all these misconceptions! GDT

By: Mandy de Waal

Mandy de Waal — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:19:16 +0000

GS van Zyl – Google has amazing products, I am not for a minute saying you shouldn’t use them. I use Google products myself. What I am saying is that they could do business in a much better way in South Africa, and I am hoping to bring that to public opinion.

Jean – It is often PR or spin doctoring practice to make positive remarks when brands have a scathing article. By so doing PR agents and spin doctors with questionable ethics hope to affect the way editorial is read, and manipulate public opinion. Your comment may be genuine, but that’s hard to ascertain given that it is anonymous and the company your work for and you say Google SA has given good service to, has not been named.

John & Feisty Female – Thank you. Your comments are appreciated.

Sean Riley – It is not my concern whether or not Craig Rodney has resigned the account. All I need to do is put things in the public eye, which I believe I have done. Then Google is not a monopoly Sean. A monopoly owns 100% of the market which Google clearly does not. Then the notion of regulation is fraught – how do you regulate and on what grounds do you regulate? Regulation is a perversion of the free market system which is best avoided.

“Nice try Sean Riley” – When you start doing investigative journalism you quickly realise that people will try and undermine you with cheap shots and vituperative vitriol. It comes with the territory so this comment holds zero weight for me. Interesting to note too that it is a well known propaganda tool to try and undermine the credibility of journalists (and other lobbyists) who write or broadcast damning stories on big brands and businesses. What this makes me wonder is why someone would go to all this trouble to try and discredit me. You’re not working for Google SA by any chance, are you?

wendy & Jonathan – What I am looking at here is a perceptual tipping point. If there are enough negative perceptual triggers for Google, public opinion would rise against them. This often happens when companies move from underdog to overlord, or from start up to monolith. The Google Earth statement was an example of the many different negative perceptual connections that could form a swell, which could reach a tipping point.

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:09:13 +0000

This post probably has some good points, but your continuation of the “Terrorists use google earth” meme makes everything else you say look dumb.

By: wendy

wendy — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:07:58 +0000

or when the company’s products and services are ‘used to do harm as seen with media reports that Google Earth was used by terrorists in the Mumbai Attacks’
erm, ok then if I use scotch tape when making a bomb dopes that make scotch tape bad?
Im no fan of Google but that’s a rather sensationalist statement

By: Nice try Sean Riley

Nice try Sean Riley — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:38:01 +0000

So Mandy,

how much did Sean Riley pay you to publish this article? If you’re looking for questionable ethics then you should look to the guy who paid you off to do this article – that’s evil right there – ripping off clients then crying to the media.

What you’ve got to realise is that there is mention of BPF as well (in your behemoth article) – do any of you agencies out there really know what BPF WAS? I say was – as in – it’s not going to exist anymore – did you know that?

Mandy – as for saying the CEO of Clickthinking was sent to Redmond – Microsoft SEM is far different to Google SEM – so being asked to go overseas hardly makes this person an expert.

The main point here is this: Google encountered the same problems in the UK – agencies and the media running them down and questioning their practices – then they became enlightened and they ate their ties. Maybe the community here should learn quickly before all bridges are burnt.

By: Sean Riley

Sean Riley — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:14:52 +0000

Mandy – do you know whether Craig Rodney has resigned from the Google account since the news of attempted media manipulation have been corroborated?

I fully agree with the debate that we can’t promote other search engines until we have a decent alternative to Google – which we don’t. However, if the monopolistic, dominant market leader is engaging in anti-competitive activities, then how can we expect a decent competitor to emerge?

Google offers a great product – they just need to be regulated since they have demonstrated the inability to effectively self-regule. Until this happens there will be no good alternatives sprouting up anytime soon…

By: FeistyFemale

FeistyFemale — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:15:05 +0000

A thought-provoking read. Thank you for being the journalist with guts!

By: John

John — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:40:42 +0000

Thank you for the excellent article Mandy and thank you for saying what other people are scared to say. Much more can be uncovered if you know where to search for information. Google South Africa is becoming a disgrace.

By: Jean

Jean — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:59:50 +0000

The company I work for has had good feedback from Google South Africa. They are much more helpful than Google USA. Google may only be helping established SEM companies at the moment.

The Search marketing field is growing in SA, we can see this by amount of new companies advertising online.

With regards to the money going to Google Ireland – that is their base of operations for finances for countries outside the US.

I hope Google doesn’t get roped up in equity, BEE etc.

By: GS van Zyl

GS van Zyl — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:27:32 +0000

Ok Mandy I am considering the points you made.

The problem is how are you going to convince me, my friends, my mom and most of the people in South Africa that it will be beneficial for them not to use Google services? They search engine are by far and away the best, and they their free services (which I know is not really free) like gmail, google talk and Google Earth is excellent.

Local is only lekker if it is just as good or better.