a fully fledged Puppet

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Yo Dave yo hit the nail on the head!!!

“…transformation are resisted, simply because, if progressive changes come, they literally imply that whites will have to readjust their lives to live a common and equal material life as everybody else, as it normally should be the case”..

However here’s where the crux lies…These people will not give up their privilege, they have fought hard and long for it and i think you are bit too optimistic is your think that we could by some means, work constructively at eradicating and ditributing that unearned privilege…

We simply cannot, white folk are privilege BECAUSE black folk are not…this is not an unintended consequence…100 years ago and today its the same story…What makes you think that our whites brothers and sisters are ever going to give up their privilege? Damm man after 15 years these people are still living it up and finding all sorts of weird ways to justify it (meritocracy, blaming the state etc…)

They ensured property rights in the negotiations, cheap black labour is still a plenty &they have carved out a “society within a society” along time ago…

Drastic changes are needed, they could be violent or they could be not, but the current system under the current regime is equally unsustainable…

I’m serious, what has made you think that we could work towards a common goal when the one’s goal is based (directly orindirectly) on the lack of attained of the others?

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Jody - I accept that I am priviledged, I accept that many of my achievements are probably linked to the fact that I’m white. What I don’t accept is that had I been born somewhere else on the planet I would not have achieved anything. There are white doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers etc. in other places who did not have the advantages that whites in South Africa had, but they still managed, somehow.

Instead of wishing to bring down everyone to the same level, you should be taking advantage of the times and uplifting yourself. There’s nothing stopping you now, other than your own will, and that of the people you voted into government. You have the same advantages now that I had 20 years ago. My parents weren’t wealthy, I had to work my way through university, and I did. Now it’s your turn.

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Jody, you are dripping with racism! What privileges does the “white” population have above those of the “black” population? None, as far as I know. Stop promoting violence, because with violence you can break your finger in your ear. Any privilege is earned through hard work, something you most probably haven’t heard of. It is not for free. Cheap labour disappearred long ago. Thank the unions for that, and have a look at the unemployment- and mechanization rate in all industries, evidence that wages are too high. After 15 years of ANC rule, only a few people are rich, not the rest of the “free”. Property rights are the base of a prosporous society, evident in the number of “black” people who aquired property rights over the past few years. If you deny people the right to own property, you will be left with countries like Lesotho and Mozambique, where everything belongs to the government, with no incentives to allow development.

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Dr Jansen was right; his whiny crybaby critics were — and still are — wrong. Dr Jansen is sage enough to keep a silly student prank involving tap-water in perspective. Build a bridge and get over it.

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David,

Do you realise how racist your letter is ? Your assumption (above) is that that all racists are white. Yeah right - and I’m the Pope !

Where do you get your moral highground ? Flesh-eaters like Idi Amin ? High-government policy like the Zimbabwean “grab a farm for your own personal use” approach ? Ubuntu policy like “buy a Benzi” ?

Racism was always about domination, power and control. Go ahead - tell me that Government has not abused those three issues today !

And talking of racism - what about South African attitudes to fellow-African refugees ?

Racism is being used to hide the inadequacies of those in power. It was the case in Mugabe’s time (he was happy with the white farmers until he realised he might lose an election!) and it’s true in our lifetimes - including the present - and here I include judges who won’t shake a white man’s hand…

Talk about a hypocrite !

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I think that this Professor Jansen is a puppet at best. Whatever his past achievements and accolades, this is one very WRONG DECISION and which will not help the situation at this University going forward. I would be interested to know how much of this decision is actually his, as opposed to the University Council which he chairs…and my guess is that that University Council is made up of the same individuals who have been presiding over the University during the pre-Jansen era. In short, I believe that he was coerced into ‘owning’ this decision whereas its motivation came from somewhere else…nothing new from ‘Rent-a-Black-Shareholder’ institutions.

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You state “racism is based on the foundations of privilege”, and you equate this to white privilege under the old regime against black underprivilege. If this is true do you accept that there is racism within race groups. Both whites and blacks of privileged standing treat those of their same race with less privileged standing as inferior, and believe psychologically that they are superior. This is called social class, upper, middle and lower. Should a son or daughter decide to marry another of different class the parents very often object and thwart the intended union. This is because of different social standing, not racism, but it would be called racist if it were to be a mixed union. Of course we have a racism problem in SA, and it resulted from apartheid privilege of whites, but lets not accuse those of generally high social standing of racism just because of their privilege.

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@anne

Thanks for your concern however I am final year chemical engineering student at UCT, handing in my thesis on the 11th NOv - Just in case you thought I was some struggling bitter black..I am in a good position bu worked very hard but my conscience is not easily appeased.

Anne the problem lies right here “…had I been born somewhere else on the planet”..You are quite right but you ask the wrong question. Rather, what if that baby that is being into squatter camp poverty RIGHT NOW was born somewhere else???…That’s where the problem with white folk lie…its the depth of your critique..And my argument is that its not coincidental, you have that viewpoint “what if I were born somewhere else” to justify yourselves in the face of Criticisms thrown at your privilege…A boldly conscious white will soon realize that paying thousands of rands for PRIMARY and HIGH school is actually not the norm…NOW what?…you have to ask yourself where the money came from to pay for those fees?..your parents of course! Where do they get the money?…They work at probably quite well paying jobs…If they have tertiary qualification, they studied under apartheid (read “white affirmative action”), if they have a house/property that might have been inherited from their parents - strictly due to apartheid. The houses that their might have built/bought are probably worth alot since white property in white suburbs is valuable - another apartheid perk!

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These guys have not even take responsibility for their actions. How can there be reconciliation un such circumstances.

I am sure we all fill in forms of all kinds. One gap i always find perturbing is the race gap and nationality.

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Jody - congratulations, and good luck with your thesis.

You are quite right, of course - a child born somewhere else rather than in a squatter camp is likely to have far more possiblities for a better future. However, your argument applies to any slum on the planet. On a visit to Mumbai, I was horrified by the poverty I saw there - it was also juxtapositioned with immense wealth, just like in this country.

The problem with the whites in Africa is that they brought the schools, universities, railways, roads and hospitals to it, but they didn’t share their knowledge willingly, and they looked down on the people they perceived as their inferiors. But now it’s time for you to take the best of what they bought, and get on with life - it will always be unfair to someone.

And just for the record - neither my sister, my brother nor my mother own any property. They also do not blame anyone else for this lack, or believe they are entitled to own property without having to work for it. I did not inherit a single thing from anyone - everything I have I have worked very hard for.

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David

I agree with you in most part of your letter but I believe that as much as the prof. was wrong by withdrawing the complaint by the UFS and allowing this boys back to study, I think the people that needs to be blamed here are the Government of our time. I think it was wrong for the ANC government and Mandela to make Reconciliation as the primary goal of the new government, this has made people to think that this was the primary objective of the struggle. The struggle was against the oppression of the black race, the despossesion of their rightful land and wealth and therefore for as long as the government continue to drag its feet in the restoration of the black man’s pride, this fight against racism will never be won. I mean the RDP houses they built for our people is worst than the matchbox houses the oppressors built, Low cost housing for blacks are still built kilometers away from town, the No-Fee schools for the poor have no infrastructure (Laboratories, books, libraries, playing fields, etc.), blacks are still taught under trees, the government put it as an achievement when the number of people getting social grants increase (meaning more and more people/blacks can’t look after themselves), the list goes on!! The government has a big role in the perpetuation of racism in South Africa.

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Anne and Jody, I really appreciate the candour and level of your discourse. Let it be an example for those who first reach for the ‘microwave’ resolution of debate.

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Guys! Stop blaming white people for your situation. It’s just an easy way out. I’m not suggesting that Prof Jansen was either right or wrong; he made what clearly is an unpopular decision. I doubt I would have been so forgiving in his position. I don’t think I would invite the perpetrators back.
However, 15 years later, consider this:
You like to think that the apartheid government (for which I did not vote) condemned you to so-called Bantu Education because they wanted you kept under. 15 years later, you have been unable to found a decent education system that treats all equally.
The same goes for housing, property, health and all other disciplines ; add piped water, electricity serivces and a million other little equalisers.
The fact is that in a country where a small percentage of the population pays nearly all the tax, it is very difficult to offer all a good standard of anything. And the more public money gets ’stolen’ from the system, the more difficult that becomes.
Now it’s your turn. I don’t vote for the ANC but can easily understand the difficulties they face: rot from within and insufficient money to give what it has promised, hence the education and other services this country (rich and poor) receives.
Our real enemy is not each other. It is the new, post-crisis economy. You understand what that did to the rich, wait and see what it does to the poor!

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David Maimela couldn’t be more right. In Prof Jonathan Jansen’s worldview “reconciliation” is an immutable, immanent principle, while “rule of law” and “equality before the law” assume a subsidiary, “cherry on top”, role in his response to white supremacist outrages that still plague our society. But this approach elides the fact that reconciliation, besides presupposing genuine contrition from whites that has been singularly unforthcoming, represented little more than an extraordinary stopgap measure imposed by the exigencies of a negotiated settlement.

Undermining the “rule of law” and “equality before the law” will inevitably have the effect of reinforcing the sense of superiority that whites still habour towards blacks, particularly in instances where attempts are made to diminish white supremacist crimes against blacks, and with deleterious implications for these principles.

It is not an accident that whites here were bitterly implacable in their demand for “rule of law” where Robert Mugabe and Zanu-PF were concerned, with many invoking the specter of the International Criminal Court in The Hague, while attempts to broker an inclusive settlement in Zimbabwe were treated with scorn.

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Oh MLH, how condenscending. “Stop blaming white people for your situation. It’s just an easy way out.”

And you understand “our situation” so well do you? Go and read up on your SA history my friend. It’s much easier to blame a “post-crisis economy” than to identify the real culprit.

Of course we need to move forward in the country lest we never exorcise the demon that is apartheid from our psyche.

However please don’t ever make such simplistic statements. It’s either you are naive or don’t have a knowledge of the facts.

Apartheid, my friend, was a SYSTEMATIC, deliberate machinery that was BUILT and engineered to perpetually subject the BLACK population to a life of subservience to the white master. So the SYSTEM made sure, that the black man be deprived of anything that would catapult him into a status of equality with the rest of the citizenry. So materially, mentally, psychologically and even spiritually programs were put into practice that would ensure this.

So you can’t come now and say just forget it. There is multi-generational damage that Apartheid caused that must be undone. You can’t wave a magic wand and wish it away.

All of us, especially white people, need to accept that we have inherited a crap legacy from ‘your’ predecessors and unfortunately we have to TOGETHER go through the pain of unravelling it’s devastation.

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David, although you did not write your peice so that anyone can agree or disagree with it. I find your article to be very interesting. It is obvious that you take your thoughts to a very deep level.

I feel very sad when I look at some of the comments here, such lack of depth, at times is best to not say anything.

Racism is not something that can be attributted to white people. It is a complex phenomenon. White people themsevles are just but one piece of the puzzle, there are many other issues involved.

The sad part in South Africa is that for as long as black people are in power, they will continue to look out for their damaged people. this can be good or bad, right or wrong but it is a fact. The end of it is that, it is a numbers game, there are more black people in South Africa than white ones. The majority rules. How well or badly is another question.

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I think the debate is getting side-tracked on what racism and who is a ricist. You do not have to be white to be racist, and that does not make it okay, but because of what happened in the past, and the refusal of other people to acknowledge the wrongs of the past and their desperate efforts to cling to the status quo, we shall always be divided along race lines. Jansen’s decision (if at all it is his) is wrong and should be reversed. Racism must be punished. Corruption must be punished. Finish and klaar.

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@ anne

yes you are write that it does apply to any slum on the planet… however not all slums/ghettos exist for the SAME REASONS, agreed?..

Here in SA…

1) Because of the racialized capitalist apartheid regime (remember they didn’t kill us all, THEY USED US, as opposed to some sort of genocide where they could have exterminated us if they really wanted to)

2)Because of the government’s inability to fundamentally alter the structure of the economy & way the country is run…

Now to me this is the trick of white privilege post 94′….If the g’ment works well - less poverty but still white abundance..If the g’ment doesnt work well - more poverty but still white abundance…Only difference is in the former scenario whites have to put up less electric fencing and hire less ADT neighborhood patrols…

White privilege is secure and only whites can deconstruct and break it down..or you could sit back and take a good hard look at our history: imperialism, capitalism, colonialism, missionary work, slavery, migrant labour&the indigenous peoples and maybe you will start to understand …

RE-rationalize the abundance in your life..PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT HARD WORK - MOST PEOPLE WORK DAMM HARD!…think about the female hawker sitting on the street corner who wakes up at 5 to make it to town…think about the grape picker who slaves whole day (to make wine) in the sun!! MERITOCRACY is a delusion that most (white) folk suffer from!

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@ anne…

for the record..

The problem with whites is Africa is that they USED indigenous africans to build those schools, hospitals,universities, railways & roads and these facilities usually were went for a purpose .i.e. roads were not built to improve the lives of the natives, they were built to connect some city to some major harbour from where those colonialists could export the rubber, coffea, oil, diamonds, gold all other other goodies that the indigenous laboured for and this drove the expansion of their economies back home (colonial )europe…

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Jody,
I have no doubt that somewhere in my past is an ancestor who was chucked off his land by a Roman, or a Viking or a Goth or a Gaul. He was probably also used for slave labour, denigrated and abused.

But when he bested his oppressors he had nice staight roads, viaducts carrying clean water, new building methods and various other things that went towards making life a little easier for him. Every nation, at some time in their past, was used and enslaved by another civilisation.

We are never going to agree. I can clearly see the wrongs that were done, often through sheer ignorance and insensitivity rather than through malice - and if it helps, I’m sorry - but you can’t see that, no matter what their motives were, without the imperialists, capitalists, colonialists and missionaries Africa might still not have the wheel or a written language, just as without the Romans or the Vikings my ancestors would also probably still be living in muds huts and wearing skins.

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Jody,

What rubbish…
Read some history of the UK or other places. Since slavery was abolished, no-one was forced to work - people flocked to the centres for jobs.

And since you carp about whites enjoying the fruits of apartheid - tell me, have you abjured the benefits ie your western clothes, infrastructure, education etc ? Do you draw water from the well or open a tap.

You can’t have it both ways. If you want equality - well, you’ve got it. If you want the whites to be enslaved to suit your version of justice - well, go to Zimbabwe. That’s what Mugabe wanted and look how he’s screwed his country.

And if you want to nuke the country so we all start equal - do you seriously think South Africa would rise from the ashes ?

Please quit this myopic whinging about how bad the white colonialists were/are. Far better if we focus attention on how to build an equitable society with jobs for all.

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Eish guys, stop whining and get on with developing South Africa. Particularly guys who happen to be black - stuff what happened, you’re in charge now; get the place moving and leave petty student issues behind.

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The comments have deviated from the point of the article, I just wanted to air my thoughts on the discussion between Jody and Anne.Having read both your comments I tend to lean in Anne’s favour. I think that as black people we are entitled to our anger or resentment and no one need give us permission for this, but there is a sense of us getting distracted when we talk of white privilege even though it is a reality. Right now as we stand there are no laws that intentionally oppress us, our challenges are not engineered right now. Is the solution for our freedom not within us and our government, to accept that we start from a weaker position but we’ll have to work harder fight more challenges than the average white person to get out? Is it not primarily through education, entrepreneurship and good governance that solutions for today lie?

I also wonder Jody what it is we want white people to do on an individual level? Like what else can Anne do as a person. Personally having experienced it, I don’t care anymore for individual white hostility, what I want as a black woman is an opportunity to rise above the circumstances I was born into, through good education, good healthcare and then leave me to struggle and succeed like everyone else, through racist white bosses and sexist black men or whatever, I’m speaking on a personal level here.

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Anne, I find the way you rationalize the past quite representative of white folks engagement with this issue…It really upsets me and many other black folk that you whites simply dont want to honestly and openly listen to black people and how they feel..is dialogue not the first step in a long process of RECONCILIATION? LISTEN anne, WE CANT EVEN GET YOU PEOPLE TO LISTEN!..

I tell you that the past upsets me simply just because your fore-bearers oppressed my people ON THE GROUNDS OF THE COLOUR OF THEIR SKIN and other external/cultural/religious traits…

I tell you that the present upsets me because your fore-bearers left behind a legacy that ensured that you - the oppressors offspring - have it well and that my people do not…

Now you come and tell me that gauls, goths or vikings oppressed your ancestors (whoever they are) and that that sort of thing is kind of normal when looking at things in a broader historical sense?..HOW CONVENIENT FOR YOU SINCE YOU ARE THE ONE THATS BENEFITING NOW?!.you go further to reiterate the racist notions of the past by telling me that in some sense i should be grateful for being ‘civilized’?…

Now please tell me how do you expect us to move past this if you just do not want to acknowledge how you benefit/ed from white supremacy and how this has shaped OUR society?

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@ peter win

When this native gets the chance to get his hands on a few history books he does indeed read them eagerly

Didn’t the trans-atlantic slave trade fuel the industrial revolution in England and Western Europe?…

yes I am ‘grateful’ for modernity, however what upsets me is that you think that your white ancestors were so great that they managed it all by themselves…they tramped and stood on many peoples to get there, but of course you don’t care about that coz you think everyone should be grateful for it all, that’s silly and a very artificial examination of the issue, However its well suited to you conscience!!

Haha i find the whole Zimbabwe ‘warning’ quite humorous time and time again because white people think that that is something that we black folk are afraid off…No Peter! you white folk are afraid of that (for obvious reasons) and stop projecting that fear onto us!

What are you talking about nuking, im trying to explain the historical process of the accumulation of wealth of white S.Africans and you talking about nuking….Yes i think i understand, If I couldnt have what i was taught was meant for me and my people I would also think that the country would be bombed..you are silly, again..

What I want is for you to be able to criticize yourselves without having to resort to flimsy excuses , there are actually whites who manage that you know…

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Diti - I really do hope you succeed in whatever it is you are aiming for!

From my understanding of the matter, Jody’s point is that it is extremely difficult for black people in this country to take advantage of what they now have because the education they have received is way below par. On an individual level all I can do is sympathise and try to understand the frustration this must engender - there’s not much else I can do.

I get the impression that Jody feels that all white people should give up everything they have and, I don’t know, leave, perhaps? If she really gave this some more thought, she’d realise that some of the problems we are experiencing in this country have come about precisely because that is what a lot of white people have done. We now have a void when it comes to skills that is going to take some time to fill, and in the mean time things are getting neglected and are deteriorating, like our power grid and our roads, hospitals and schools. Not the least of our problems is that so many black people in positions of power, at the moment, cannot see beyond the next German car or mansion in an elite suburb.

In my profession I meet many highly qualified black people, and the ability and potential are obviously there (sorry, don’t mean to sound patronising) - it is simply going to take time for things to equalise.

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After 15 years of democrisy and freedom ,the grass still looks greener on the other side and therefore,for some reason, those who reside there must be looked upon with detest and hate. If only those that are residing on the more barren patches of earth realize or even notice that the road taken to those greener pastures is not an easy road, but a road that takes responsability and discipline instead of having a WANT WANT WANT or something for nothing attitude then maybe we’d have a glimmer of hope for this country after all. Judging from comments provided by the likes of Jody, one can clearly see that forgiveness is not on the order of the day but rather a “I want to see you suffer” mindset.

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@ Anne

I think reason we are in this mess is that the inflated blaCK BOURGEIOUES goverment cannot think for themselves and are incaple of thinking outside the framework that they inherited..when the day comes we’ll go for them 1st - dont worry

..Of course very nice for you white people to believe that the country is in disarray becuase all the capable, experienced white folk left…that borders on delusion, however i have an explanation..As I wrote to Peter earlier, whites leaving this country is not something that black people fear, YOU FEAR THAT ANNE..white people fear that! and of course its perfectly understandable, you were born here and dont really know any other home..shame…thats kind of sad….However please stop projecting your god damm fear onto us, its pathetic..

White privilege is a mountain to climb just in one go, rather get to know the (greater) country first…learn an indigenous language, join one of various collectives/ngo’s/movements n meet real people,venture out of the suburbs a bit more into the ‘great abyss’ (that is everything outside the business centres and your leafy suburbs)..

Your final statement is cause for concern… Thanks for validating our abilities and (thereby) our humanity..YAY, WE GOT ABILITY N THE POTENTIAL IS THERE! Yay! This is why you must learn SAhistory.. you are validating the black and defining our capacity..if you knew anything you would know that that is an old hobby of your forebeares!

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For sure Africa was is and will still be hospitable. We lived our lives Peter that we did and well our history is really wealthy. Don’t make us feel as though without the western influence we would be extinct bra because if that was the case you guys wouldn’t be here. Unlike the western that took upon itself to play the role of God we respected one another until our innocence was taken away by a few selfish western individuals who dimmed important to partition this continent hence unleashing hell on everyone born and living here. Take time to read ancient African history for your awaking bra.

Yes most of us Africans (black and white) have lost the meaning of being African. For us to restore what is left of Africa, we all need to work together.

One cannot fight fire with fire but with water. So we need to deal with that evil that makes feel superior to others and also inferior for with one the other cannot survive.

Again every individual has to take responsibility for their life and most importantly their actions. Black South Africans needed to take responsibility of the opportunities presented to them and stop fighting the white people like wise white racists should also take responsibility and face the consequences of their actions.

As for the Zimbabweans you need to know what you want. How can 1 person put the lives of millions on hold under the pretense of AFRICANISIM? Take charge comrades.

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Oh for GOD’s sake! Who cares about who did what. The truth of the matter is that the Northern Hemisphere cultures developed a more complex means of survival due to harsher climatic conditions, enabling them to dominate Southern Hemisphere cultures (who where able to survive with relative ease) when they came looking for greener pastures. Was apartheid wrong - HELL YES! Did all “whites” consciously support it - HELL NO! Just as most of us don’t consciously contribute toward global warming, which is notably going to KILL US ALL! These guys from UFS are just kids who had no real idea what the consequences of their actions where going to be. To err is human!

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Are any among the bleating lynch mob above perfect, devoid of sin, blameless, eligible to cast forth the first stone. I think not!

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Hello Everyone!

WEB du Bois declared “The problem of the 20th century is the problem of the colourline”. The question in the 21st century is whether, have we, collective humanity that is, answered quite correctly and honestly this key question?

When racism or any other prejudice is discussed it has nothing to do with the person, for we will always forgive the person, it has everything to do with a backward, repugnant, stinking and myopic baseless ideology of white supremacy. All over the world we must ask the question and answer it honestly: why is that racism is always directed at those with a darker skin? And the answer can be found when we study the historical development of society.

Now, please folks stop looking within yourselves and stop making patronising blacks. We know many progressive whites fought against racism and they still do. What we must focus on is the ideology and system of racism wherever it manifests itself. Thats the central task of our time.

I wont make some whites feel good. They must feel good on their own. They dont need me who focus of the scientific make-up of the social phenomenon called racism. The oppressed in this country have long liberated both themselves and the oppressor. So, let all presently backward thinking people wake up and liberate themselves. Nobody but them will rescue them. I thank you once more!

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Hello Everyone again!

The other problem is that racism is so entrenched and so entrapped in the minds of many, something I call “brainwash” so much that people cannot even see or hear when they are making not only patronising but racist comments in the name of “not being racist”. So for instance, some people forget that sometimes people take a lifetime to undersatand this thing called racism. And it will still be unpacked for generations to come. So, even in the comments of many here in this blog against my views on Jansen’s decision, they are blatantly racist comments. Thats how systematic, humangus and deadly is the disease called Racism.

The space is small here to reflect broadly and in detail. I just give my summary but in case people want to engage me my email is dmaimela@gmail.com.

Bye

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@cano.
Very nicely put. However, with “the Whites took the innocence of black people away”, I cannot agree. For some yes, but look at the history of the Zulus. They where warriors and behaved accordingly.

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Guys, someone please help me understand racism, I am truly confused. If I detest my white neighbour its ok, nobody has a problem. If I detest my black neighbour, I am a racist. If I say Eugene Terreblanche is stupid, we all laugh. If I say Julius Malema is stupid, I am a racist. If I beat up a black guy during an argument and he dies, I am a racist murderer. If a black guys kills me during an argument, he is an ordinary criminal. So when is someone actually a racist?

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