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	<title>Comments on: A crisis of opportunity: The state of education in SA</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/</link>
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		<title>By: Oldfox</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-55784</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-55784</guid>
		<description>Rachel,

The fact that something is &quot;well documented&quot;, does not mean that it is true.

I was on the Governing Body of a Model C school many years ago. Admittedly the majority of school pupils were black, by that stage, so the issue of excluding black pupils could not apply to such a school.   Income from fees have to match the expenditure on essential facilities not provided by the govt. (including school desks!) and additional teachers essential for a quality education. The is basic business/accounting principles, and has nothing to do with race. If it turns out that the resultant fee structure excludes many poor children, tough. They will have to go to govt. schools. But many poor parents DID make the necessary sacrifices so their children could attend Model C schools. One of those was a domestic worker, who spent 25% of her income on the monthly fees alone for one child(and there are other expenses like books and school uniforms that add to the financial burden of such poor parents).  

The crisis in education in SA today, can indeed be blamed ENTIRELY on poor leadership by the education authorities and also others in other govt departments (e.g. those who decided to shut down teachers training colleges).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel,</p>
<p>The fact that something is &#8220;well documented&#8221;, does not mean that it is true.</p>
<p>I was on the Governing Body of a Model C school many years ago. Admittedly the majority of school pupils were black, by that stage, so the issue of excluding black pupils could not apply to such a school.   Income from fees have to match the expenditure on essential facilities not provided by the govt. (including school desks!) and additional teachers essential for a quality education. The is basic business/accounting principles, and has nothing to do with race. If it turns out that the resultant fee structure excludes many poor children, tough. They will have to go to govt. schools. But many poor parents DID make the necessary sacrifices so their children could attend Model C schools. One of those was a domestic worker, who spent 25% of her income on the monthly fees alone for one child(and there are other expenses like books and school uniforms that add to the financial burden of such poor parents).  </p>
<p>The crisis in education in SA today, can indeed be blamed ENTIRELY on poor leadership by the education authorities and also others in other govt departments (e.g. those who decided to shut down teachers training colleges).</p>
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		<title>By: Siyakhula Education Foundation &#187; Education or Death</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-55005</link>
		<dc:creator>Siyakhula Education Foundation &#187; Education or Death</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-55005</guid>
		<description>[...] a very accurate and well-written description of the state of our township and rural schools, click here. (Note the suggestions in the last [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a very accurate and well-written description of the state of our township and rural schools, click here. (Note the suggestions in the last [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54867</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54867</guid>
		<description>Gus, I would be interested to hear what these prominent women thought was exactly good about the Bantu Education System. I am not one to throw the baby out with the bath water so if there was something positive in the structures and technicalities of the Bantu Education system, then lets hear it and use it for the current system.

What I do know for certain is that there was much that was wrong with that system. According to Nasson and Samuel (1990), secondary school teachers in black schools in 1976 were poorly qualified to take up their positions. 1.7% had a university degree, 10.4% had a matriculation certificate, 49.3% had two years of secondary schooling and 21% had only completed primary school. These are teachers teaching secondary school students! And Verwoed allowed for this! And then there were disparities in the amount of funding that was being dedicated to white versus black education that predisposed Bantu education to failing right from the beginning. And then there was the language issue that hindered black students from engaging with the curriculum effectively. All this while students were also trying to cope with breaking family structures and an impossible politico-economic climate. 

So again I would be interested to hear what the good parts of the Bantu education system were so that we can incorporate them into the current system. But let&#039;s not be quick to start pining for Verwoed as though his education system lacked flaws. It is the very system after all that is the root of some of the problems we face in today&#039;s schools. What we are dealig with here is a problem of inheritance and not just current mismanagement.

As for your lack of sympathy for blacks based on the fact that black leaders are failing: all I can say is shame. This habit of blaming black leaders for all ailments in South Africa is becoming really problematic. With regard to the education system, it has been well documented that many white parents have voted for fees in Model C schools to be raised so that these schools remain inaccessible to black students. All this for fear that black students would lower the &quot;standards&quot; of these schools. This has contributed to the perpetuation of &#039;access-strictly-by-class&#039; and has kept many poor people from receiving the kind of education that they could under a fairer system.

So let&#039;s not pretend that all problems In South Africa are solely as a result of poor black leadership. There are also poor white attitudes that need to be challenged alongside the poor leadership that you speak of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gus, I would be interested to hear what these prominent women thought was exactly good about the Bantu Education System. I am not one to throw the baby out with the bath water so if there was something positive in the structures and technicalities of the Bantu Education system, then lets hear it and use it for the current system.</p>
<p>What I do know for certain is that there was much that was wrong with that system. According to Nasson and Samuel (1990), secondary school teachers in black schools in 1976 were poorly qualified to take up their positions. 1.7% had a university degree, 10.4% had a matriculation certificate, 49.3% had two years of secondary schooling and 21% had only completed primary school. These are teachers teaching secondary school students! And Verwoed allowed for this! And then there were disparities in the amount of funding that was being dedicated to white versus black education that predisposed Bantu education to failing right from the beginning. And then there was the language issue that hindered black students from engaging with the curriculum effectively. All this while students were also trying to cope with breaking family structures and an impossible politico-economic climate. </p>
<p>So again I would be interested to hear what the good parts of the Bantu education system were so that we can incorporate them into the current system. But let&#8217;s not be quick to start pining for Verwoed as though his education system lacked flaws. It is the very system after all that is the root of some of the problems we face in today&#8217;s schools. What we are dealig with here is a problem of inheritance and not just current mismanagement.</p>
<p>As for your lack of sympathy for blacks based on the fact that black leaders are failing: all I can say is shame. This habit of blaming black leaders for all ailments in South Africa is becoming really problematic. With regard to the education system, it has been well documented that many white parents have voted for fees in Model C schools to be raised so that these schools remain inaccessible to black students. All this for fear that black students would lower the &#8220;standards&#8221; of these schools. This has contributed to the perpetuation of &#8216;access-strictly-by-class&#8217; and has kept many poor people from receiving the kind of education that they could under a fairer system.</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s not pretend that all problems In South Africa are solely as a result of poor black leadership. There are also poor white attitudes that need to be challenged alongside the poor leadership that you speak of.</p>
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		<title>By: Mal</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54814</link>
		<dc:creator>Mal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54814</guid>
		<description>Great Article Rachel,

Like all events that cause change, you need a spark that causes a fire to burn away the old forest and dead wood, so that new saps (ideas) can grow. Lets hope this article and others like it can make someone somewhere see sense and do what needs to be done to save the brilliant potential that is possible from the youth of S.Africa and other African countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article Rachel,</p>
<p>Like all events that cause change, you need a spark that causes a fire to burn away the old forest and dead wood, so that new saps (ideas) can grow. Lets hope this article and others like it can make someone somewhere see sense and do what needs to be done to save the brilliant potential that is possible from the youth of S.Africa and other African countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54800</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54800</guid>
		<description>What??? Ivan Illich and &quot;Deschooling Society&quot;? 

That was on every radical&#039;s reading list way back in the late 1960s!  That&#039;s about as &quot;cutting edge&quot; as crocheted doilies and macrame pot-plant holders!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What??? Ivan Illich and &#8220;Deschooling Society&#8221;? </p>
<p>That was on every radical&#8217;s reading list way back in the late 1960s!  That&#8217;s about as &#8220;cutting edge&#8221; as crocheted doilies and macrame pot-plant holders!</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54766</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54766</guid>
		<description>Come on! Illich&#039;s &quot;Deschooling Society&quot; was cutting edge golly-gosh revolutionary stuff in the late 1960&#039;s! It&#039;s half a century out of date along with LSD, tie-dyed lavender-purple grandpa vests and fondue parties and Hercules bicycles with three-speed Sturmey-Archer gears. 

Can&#039;t educational radicals come up with something newer than a recycled fifty-year old faded and drug-fuelled dream?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on! Illich&#8217;s &#8220;Deschooling Society&#8221; was cutting edge golly-gosh revolutionary stuff in the late 1960&#8242;s! It&#8217;s half a century out of date along with LSD, tie-dyed lavender-purple grandpa vests and fondue parties and Hercules bicycles with three-speed Sturmey-Archer gears. </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t educational radicals come up with something newer than a recycled fifty-year old faded and drug-fuelled dream?</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54753</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54753</guid>
		<description>....by the way, TM, I will be getting Deschooling Society on your recommendation...

BenzoL, great research you propose at the end. I might consider that for a PhD.

Correction to my profile: I have just completed a Masters in African Studies at Oxford University. I am not a BSocSci student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;.by the way, TM, I will be getting Deschooling Society on your recommendation&#8230;</p>
<p>BenzoL, great research you propose at the end. I might consider that for a PhD.</p>
<p>Correction to my profile: I have just completed a Masters in African Studies at Oxford University. I am not a BSocSci student.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54738</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54738</guid>
		<description>Such a critical topic and such critical and useful feedback that will surely influence my future research. I agree with all of you that saving the education system will equally require saving the political and economic system of this country. There are too may loose ends that need tightening and the effects of corruption, nepotism, the brain drain, BEE mismanagement and other such factors are not doing too well to tighten those ends.

I particularly appreciate your insight BenzoL. I believe that we agree on the fundamentals and if you read the piece again you will see that I acknowledge the &quot;heroes&quot; - teachers and students alike - who manage with incredible resolve despite the conditions under which they are made to teach and learn. Indeed my scholar-friend and myself (to differing degrees) are products of education backgrounds that were not so comfy resource-wise, but had teachers and management that were absolutely determined to make a success out of us. We were also fortunate to have a support system (parents, extended family) that allowed us to better cope with the conditions we found ourselves in and to deliver us to the space that we are in now academically.

It is on the second point that I would differ with you though not so greatly. I think that your statement &quot;some students work harder out of frustration, others respond destructive&quot; reflects the crux of what I am trying to highlight here. It is the conditions that lead to that very frustration that we urgently need to get rid of. I don&#039;t think that any child should be made to deal with some of the educational frustrations that I have seen from both personal experience and from my research. I have just finished my Masters research and some of the stories that students tell reiterate the point that these conditions surely do turn brilliant minds into victims. It&#039;s not every human being that exercises their fighting spirit and some find it easier to give in and let the difficulties of the day determine their direction. I have not come across any research as yet that measures at what point students fail to cope and turn to destructive behaviour as a way of expressing their anger at the system failing them. I would think that research would be useful. And I don&#039;t know if you ever experienced such anger as a child. I did, and trust me it is a thin line between conquering and giving in. It is unfair that children, based on their class and impoverished background, are having to grapple with such difficult issues, when other children, based on their wealthier status can breeze through the education system.

TM, dear scholar-friend, thank you for your story that has forever inspired me. Let&#039;s get in touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a critical topic and such critical and useful feedback that will surely influence my future research. I agree with all of you that saving the education system will equally require saving the political and economic system of this country. There are too may loose ends that need tightening and the effects of corruption, nepotism, the brain drain, BEE mismanagement and other such factors are not doing too well to tighten those ends.</p>
<p>I particularly appreciate your insight BenzoL. I believe that we agree on the fundamentals and if you read the piece again you will see that I acknowledge the &#8220;heroes&#8221; &#8211; teachers and students alike &#8211; who manage with incredible resolve despite the conditions under which they are made to teach and learn. Indeed my scholar-friend and myself (to differing degrees) are products of education backgrounds that were not so comfy resource-wise, but had teachers and management that were absolutely determined to make a success out of us. We were also fortunate to have a support system (parents, extended family) that allowed us to better cope with the conditions we found ourselves in and to deliver us to the space that we are in now academically.</p>
<p>It is on the second point that I would differ with you though not so greatly. I think that your statement &#8220;some students work harder out of frustration, others respond destructive&#8221; reflects the crux of what I am trying to highlight here. It is the conditions that lead to that very frustration that we urgently need to get rid of. I don&#8217;t think that any child should be made to deal with some of the educational frustrations that I have seen from both personal experience and from my research. I have just finished my Masters research and some of the stories that students tell reiterate the point that these conditions surely do turn brilliant minds into victims. It&#8217;s not every human being that exercises their fighting spirit and some find it easier to give in and let the difficulties of the day determine their direction. I have not come across any research as yet that measures at what point students fail to cope and turn to destructive behaviour as a way of expressing their anger at the system failing them. I would think that research would be useful. And I don&#8217;t know if you ever experienced such anger as a child. I did, and trust me it is a thin line between conquering and giving in. It is unfair that children, based on their class and impoverished background, are having to grapple with such difficult issues, when other children, based on their wealthier status can breeze through the education system.</p>
<p>TM, dear scholar-friend, thank you for your story that has forever inspired me. Let&#8217;s get in touch.</p>
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		<title>By: GUS</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54728</link>
		<dc:creator>GUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54728</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve said it before; this continent&#039;s biggest enemies are their own leaders.

2 highly prominent black women recently expressed the view that Bantu education was of greater quality than the crap you get now. Verwoerd, where are you, bra?

Change the government and things might improve.

I don&#039;t feel sorry for blacks, as the black leaders of this country have stolen our collective dream of the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said it before; this continent&#8217;s biggest enemies are their own leaders.</p>
<p>2 highly prominent black women recently expressed the view that Bantu education was of greater quality than the crap you get now. Verwoerd, where are you, bra?</p>
<p>Change the government and things might improve.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel sorry for blacks, as the black leaders of this country have stolen our collective dream of the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54717</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/09/14/a-crisis-of-opportunity-the-state-of-education-in-south-africa/#comment-54717</guid>
		<description>Great article, Rachel. Thank you.

Another factor - which I think BenzoL also alludes to - is learners&#039; complicity in their own socio-economic stagnation.

A week or so ago, here in Grahamstown, one of the local township schools was broken into by suspected former or current pupils (suspected, because they knew exactly how to get in, where to go, and what would cause the maximum damage). The science lab was trashed, and bottles of chemicals smashed on the floor such that the teachers and cops had to close the school temporarily the next morning in order to safely clean up the dangerous mixed chemicals. This happened during Matric trials week. On one of the chalkboards in the classroom, underneath where the teacher had written up the learners&#039; homework questions for the day, one of the burglars scrawled &quot;The answer is fuck you!&quot; This incident is just the latest in a long line of school break-ins and trashings that have occured in Grahamstown this year.

It depresses me profoundly because I know a number of learners at that school whose Matric preparations have been thrown into disarray, all because of the retarded actions of their peers.

Why would learners want to do such a mindless and stupid thing? No amount of government funding, policy shifts, imbizos, whatever, can achieve anything when faced with such an attitude on the part of some learners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Rachel. Thank you.</p>
<p>Another factor &#8211; which I think BenzoL also alludes to &#8211; is learners&#8217; complicity in their own socio-economic stagnation.</p>
<p>A week or so ago, here in Grahamstown, one of the local township schools was broken into by suspected former or current pupils (suspected, because they knew exactly how to get in, where to go, and what would cause the maximum damage). The science lab was trashed, and bottles of chemicals smashed on the floor such that the teachers and cops had to close the school temporarily the next morning in order to safely clean up the dangerous mixed chemicals. This happened during Matric trials week. On one of the chalkboards in the classroom, underneath where the teacher had written up the learners&#8217; homework questions for the day, one of the burglars scrawled &#8220;The answer is fuck you!&#8221; This incident is just the latest in a long line of school break-ins and trashings that have occured in Grahamstown this year.</p>
<p>It depresses me profoundly because I know a number of learners at that school whose Matric preparations have been thrown into disarray, all because of the retarded actions of their peers.</p>
<p>Why would learners want to do such a mindless and stupid thing? No amount of government funding, policy shifts, imbizos, whatever, can achieve anything when faced with such an attitude on the part of some learners.</p>
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