Koketso Moeti
Koketso Moeti

When cruelty’s disguised as ‘civilisation’

As expected, the response to my previous post contained some of the usual commentary that taints any attempt at meaningful engagement on race relations in South Africa. From the usual allegations of white people currently being oppressed in South Africa, to how I am too young to comment on apartheid. Another usual assumption made is that calling out racism makes one a die-hard ANC supporter, who supports the current state of things, which coincidentally affects more black people than whites.

A comment that really disturbed me though was one that said Africans should be grateful to whites that they “no longer wearing animal skin” and that they are “civilised”. This comment really took me on an emotional roller-coaster. I went from being shocked at the sheer audacity, to feeling an overwhelming rage overtake me.

Has this person conveniently forgotten that as prescribed by the Bantu Land Act of 1913 and the Bantu Trust and Land Act of 1936, certain areas of the country were demarcated for black citizens? What this means is that, land was taken from people and those who were once able to feed themselves, their families and communities went straight to having nothing. You see, land is not ‘’just land’’ as many often insinuate. It is right at the centre of some of our most pressing problems today. Despite being an overwhelming 80% of the South African population, the land allocated for black occupation is believed to have been only 13% of the territory comprising the South African state. People were taken off land that had been in their families for generations and were taken from their homes. For some, it was the only home they had ever known.

Do you not remember the Truth and Reconciliation Commission? How for weeks we listened to stories of some of the most heinous acts committed by human beings. Detentions, murders, burnings, abductions, beatings, rape and the endless unspeakable tortures that had been carried out under apartheid. Have we already forgotten the haunted looks of parents and partners who wanted the bodies of their loved ones back and those who never got a chance to find out what happened to their children and loved ones?

Let me remind you that the: “Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) concluded in its 1998 report that the use of torture and assault during interrogation was ‘widespread and systematic’, used by security police at all levels and parts of the country, and condoned by the government as an official practice (Coleman, 53 and TRC Report, Volume 2, 187, 220). Physical beatings were the most common form of torture, followed by suffocation, electric shock, forced postures or body positions, and sexual abuse. Police also deprived detainees of sleep, food and drink, kept them naked, exposed them to cold, and even dangled detainees from windows. Many people were held in solitary confinement. This kind of treatment caused shame and humiliation in addition to physical pain and, when the police went too far, death. (Coleman, 54-55) The TRC estimated that, between 1960 and 1990, 80 000 people were held in police custody under security legislation that allowed indefinite detention without trial and reported that seventy-three of those detainees died while in detention. (Coleman, 56-57 and TRC Report, Volume 2, 187) The police detained not only political leaders, but people from all sectors of society, including children.”

Apart from this, we cannot forget that the system tore apart whole families in many ways. Grown men, our fathers and uncles, could be stopped and made to dance like monkeys for the pleasure of the apartheid police. Can you imagine the consequences of undergoing such humiliation in front of one’s family? This is but only one of many ways it was done.

The apartheid system killed many, much more than those recorded. There are many ways to kill a human being, without doing it physically and the apartheid system mastered this.

That anyone considers this to be civilisation of any kind that deserves any form of gratitude just goes to prove that the road to the ”rainbow nation” is indeed still a long way off.

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  • 43 Responses to “When cruelty’s disguised as ‘civilisation’”

    1. Zeph #

      I tend to agree with you on your points above. My gripe is the way whites are being portrayed and inherently nasty, evil and racist beings. It is as if the woes of this world are entirely the white persons fault. It is almost as if black people are not capable of any evil and if there is evil done by them then it is due to those darned whites again!
      I also resent the fact that people apply the morals and ethics of today on events that occurred over sixty years ago. Believe it or not; people and the world has moved on. Post WW2 one can say there has been a revolution in popular perceptions of the world and our place in it. To deny this is foolish as it is just as foolish to say we have finished that journey.
      This myopia is damaging to our nation as it builds false constructs which can only lead to trouble down the road.
      I also recommend a good read: External Mission: The ANC in Exile 1960-1990 Stephen Ellis – as the Economist said in a review, “The good guys were often bad.” It brings some perspective. To borrow from your title I could write – Why cruelty’s disguised as ‘liberation’.

      January 16, 2013 at 12:11 pm
    2. Tofolux #

      @Koketso, personally I think that this goes back and proves all Gillians claims as she appeals to her fellow countrymen. Inasmuch as she asks them quite sobrely not to get defensive, I agree that all the defensiveness has been quite maniac. The point you make and I am surprised that you are surprised at this aspect of dehumanisation. Yes, Gillians does appeal to them about these practises and once again, they couldnt desist. My concern though is that this dehumanisation is not new and it should come as no surprise that we suffer these on a daily basis. Now, given this and all of what Gillian has proved, how do we react and approach white raciscm in our society. I am glad that this debate is happening and I am glad that it is allowed to be on the radar screen for this long, so thank you. But clearly we cannot expell or interrogate forever. What is the way forward and how do we articulate to racists that blacks are generally gatvol of their barbaric attitudes.

      January 16, 2013 at 12:19 pm
    3. The Creator #

      For a white South African to say something like that, yeah, that’s a pretty good definition of chutzpah.

      But it’s interesting that white South Africans are so terrified of discussing racism. After all, they all say, on this thread, that they aren’t racists and that race is irrelevant to them. Then they go on to say that any person who raises the subject is obviously in league with the filthy blacks.

      I could go on.

      January 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm
    4. Buffalo Soldier #

      @ Koketso Moeti

      “That anyone considers this to be civilisation of any kind that deserves any form of gratitude just goes to prove that the road to the ”rainbow nation” is indeed still a long way off.”

      A government is nothing more than a reflection of the consciousness of the people.

      The road to the Rainbow Nation is far away as long as we have a corrupt incompetent government and people who continue to vote them in.

      Not one of the blogs I have read on apartheid/racism on Thoughtleader in the last three weeks has come up with a plan to make government accountable to the masses who are suffering from too many jumping on the gravy train.

      Lets have a plan of action. Lets move towards civilized government.

      January 16, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    5. Just a Thought #

      @koketso

      Do you think that there might have been a truth a reconcilliation process for the mfecanin the early 1800s? Because this was also an era of widespread chaos and warfare between the local african tribes. To form the Ndebele old Mzilikazi ordered the killing of his opponents. At one stage the whole transvaal region was almost depopulated because of these actions. Sounds a lot more violent than apartheid….Surely the people who suffered would have been devastated as well.

      I guess that history doesnt matter because it was black on black violence and fighting for dominance.

      But on a serious note, surely if the mfecane can be seen now as a process that united these populations, apartheid can be used to unite all south afriucans to a common cause in 2013.

      But it looks like we are intent on keeping this an issue and being bitter forever. The ANC liberated South Africa and is at the helm of restoring order. If they believe that we live in a finite world where the only opportunities sit in white hands then they have a very blinkered view of how an economy works.

      January 16, 2013 at 2:44 pm
    6. Marianne de Leuca #

      @ Koketso Moeti

      I completely agree with you. It seems to me from the responses to the various articles dealing with the issue of ‘whiteness’ that many (apparently ‘white’) people have failed to grasp the difference between overt racism and ‘whiteness’. The former, I think, is usually a conscious action on the part of the perpetrator, either deliberately with malicious intent, or through ignorance which may be offensive to the victim but is usually without malicious intent. From what I understand ‘whiteness’ is a passive form of racism, an unconscious or ingrained acceptance through social conditioning that ‘whiteness’ should be the normal standard for society ie. white is superior. ‘Whiteness’ does not question why that should be and is oblivious to the inherent privilege of ‘whiteness’, which is not visible because it is not material like wealth or education, and the natural consequence of ‘whiteness’ is the oppression of black people because it fails to regard ‘black’ as being of equal worth. This kind of racism, overt or passive, is learned behaviour and I believe it can be unlearned. The inherent privilege of ‘whiteness’ is conferred on an individual by accident of birth. How does an individual ‘white’ person escape that inherent privilege of ‘whiteness’? I don’t have an answer to that. These are my personal thoughts, and the best I can do, as an individual person, is to try to live with moral integrity and to continually question what…

      January 16, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    7. Juju Esq. #

      @Marianne de Leuca

      “Whiteness” is what confused people call the elite, so they don’t have to admit that the black elite and white elite both oppress the working classes.

      “Whiteness” is also a term used by those who don’t want to admit that class conflict cuts across race, they want drive a wedge between the different races for their own political or ideological agendas.

      “Whiteness” is also a populist racist label where other terms like wealthy classes would be more accurate.

      January 16, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    8. Benzo #

      @Marianne:”The inherent privilege of ‘whiteness’ is conferred on an individual by accident of birth. How does an individual ‘white’ person escape that inherent privilege of ‘whiteness’?”

      The inherent privilege of ‘blackness’ is conferred on an individual by accident of birth. How does an individual ‘black’ person escape that inherent privilege of ‘blackness’?

      Must all of us, -black, white and all mixes- become “reborn” and go through a rescholing process to forget and whipe out all memories of life’s events which have led to attitude, behaviour, prejudice and spontaneous responses based on this or -in short- forget our life long education????

      Is “whiteness” -as you suggest- an inherent privilege? Is “blackness” not??

      January 16, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    9. Lennon #

      I live behind what is known in the WC as the ‘Boerewors Curtain’ – that area north of the N1 and over the Tygerberg Hills which, at one stage, was predominantly Afrikaans “turf”.

      Having worked and partied in the area, I’ve noticed what I can only attribute as a “hangover” from the Anglo-Boer War in the sense that certain Afrikaaners have either a mild or sometimes not-so-mild disliking for English-speaking whites. While I am an English speaker, my family is not originally from England. This doesn’t seem to make any difference. I speak the language so I’m a “rooinek” or “Engelsman” (as a former manager used to call me – by name no less).

      Considering the Anglo-Boer War ended in 1902, is it really surprising that anyone who isn’t white might still have resentment or even hatred for whites in general? I think not.

      @ Koketso: As for that comment about about animal skins and civilisation, I believe the documentary ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’ is a good place to see just what European “civilisation” destroyed – no just in Africa, but also the Americas and Asia. If you can find it, I’d recommend that you watch it as it shows a side of Africa that you never see in the history books.

      January 16, 2013 at 5:02 pm
    10. Sandra Dickson #

      @Koketso Good writing as usual. Also very good points that you raise here and they are very true. Most whites are uncomfortable with these facts and will spend hours trying to prove that it happens everywhere in the world, that black tribes in the 1800′s were violent too. Nobody has the guts to take on current issues head on like you do. Like with Gillian’s writing, people attack her as a person, attack her past, attack what she stands for. Nobody takes on the real Issue here.

      I hardly see anybody taking the conversation forward willingly. People shift uncomfortable and are only too pleased if the topic is replaced with something lighter. White South Africans refuse to face the facts….they refuse to even listen to the facts.

      Thank you for a great piece of writing !

      January 16, 2013 at 5:35 pm
    11. No one is disputing the horrors of apartheid. It was cruel, and has done no end of harm to generations of South Africans. That said, one can also not forget other atrocities suffered by countless other people’s. the American native Indians were all but annihilated, as we’re the Australian Aborigines. The holocaust is another monstrosity that must never be forgotten, BUT we must learn from this suffering and make sure that these things don’t keep happening. Destroying the lives and careers of promising young South Africans because of the colour of their skin, is wrong. Racism in any form is wrong. The president’s constant referral to,”us” and “them” does nothing to foster reconciliation between the races and all of this is dragging our country into the mud. Allowing rampant corruption and incompetence to spite white people is not only wrong, it’s stupid. The education department is in crisis – that is happening here and now. Remember yesteryear, and fix the mistakes of the past by making a success of the present and ensuring the future of our children – all children, irrespective of colour.

      January 16, 2013 at 7:11 pm
    12. Momma Cyndi #

      Whilst it was a daft thing to say, did you ever consider that the racial nonsense being spewed out made the author of that go “from being shocked at the sheer audacity, to feeling an overwhelming rage” ?

      You are very young. You have no clue what it was like to be told you couldn’t go into a pub because you are a woman. You have no clue what it was like to be told you couldn’t have dinner with a friend at a restaurant because your friend isn’t lily white. It goes beyond insult – it makes you wish you could breath fire. Then you (with your limited inability to sympathise) tell people that they shouldn’t feel offended because they can’t get a job or a place at university because they are white? Not ‘can’t’ because they are not good enough but ‘can’t’ because of their genetics (be that chromosomes or pigmentation).

      Now don’t get me started on the ‘YOU stole our land’ bit. Piet Pommpies from Poffadder spent 20 odd years paying off his mortgage and gods alone knows how many sleepless nights (not to mention gritting teeth through the years spent kissing managerial behinds) to pay it off. To now call Piet a thief? Yes, the land was taken and yes, it was wrong but it wasn’t Piet! Stop calling poor Piet a thief

      I’m not excusing the daft comment but simply trying to get it through to you that (believe it or not) white people do have feelings. We aren’t some kind of alien species from the sci-fi channel. We get angry and frustrated too

      January 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm
    13. Azania #

      I fully identify with your sentiments. We need to expose these evil deeds. Those who perpetrated these deeds are impatient, arrogant and want us to accept that they are sorry for the past, and we should quickly lookup for solutions. They try to absolve their evilness by juxtaposing the wrongs of the current government with their rancid and rotten ways of treating other human beings as rubbish. We don’t need solutions now, but we need to expose them for who they are. They need to regret their actions for generations to come. Lest we forget.
      Good article Koketso. Keep it up!

      January 16, 2013 at 9:21 pm
    14. Free us from the ANC #

      We can never go forwards by continually looking backwards. We need to shake this legacy from ourselves and let the ‘born free’s’ take charge of our national discourse.

      Amongst these youngsters there is no hint of the ugly fears that the elders still harbour. It makes me happy to see them hanging out together and having a good time. They are the wise ones.

      January 16, 2013 at 11:24 pm
    15. Facts People #

      @marianna: “whiteness” in that context is a collection of influences that brought a broad ever evolving culture to a certain point. By next year it will be subtly changed again. Similarly one can say the same for any other color-ness. One can resent the influences of media/power cultures etc but play the ball, not an amorphous mass. Even the author of the article wears styles that are “whiteness”. Even Bob Marley singing about blackness wore and lived whiteness! Zuma lives in a heavily whiteness way. Ramaphosa sells McDonalds – you can’t get a worse vile whiteness that that – even whites agree!

      The point about the widespread destruction of Shaka’s impis is a truth no one wants to acknowledge. Wasn’t that power influence fundamental in defining Zulu-ness and to a degree dominant in shaping blackness in southern Africa?

      and that was only 200 years ago. If oppression has been for 400 years, who was doing over who and when?

      I do however earnestly believe that huge public resources should be geared towards opportunity for those who come from under privileged backgrounds. Opportunities, not back-handers, As a “white”, I am not going to beat myself up continually about what previous governments did. I am me and while I see an obligation to lift others, I am not going to be taken for a guilt-sucker for ever on account of actions of people I didn’t know anymore than the author did.

      January 17, 2013 at 12:44 am
    16. ntozakhona #

      Zeph, Buffalo Soldier et al. Do you mind detailing legislatively buttressed atrocticities committed by the Africans against colonials in South Africa? Koketso has provided a sample of the savagery perpertrated against Africans in the land of their forefathers.

      Koketso maybe it should be added that Africans had great civilisations in Mapungubwe, the Great Zimbabwe, Sudan. Timbuktu and the Great Makoko amongst others before being invaded by the descendants of barbarians. Even after the Land Act of 1913, most of the beneficiaries of the cruelty could still not farm and had to rely on Africans to transfer skills. The practise of sharecropping became widespread to the embarassment of the authors of the Land Act hence they amended it to ensure that the tranfer of skills becomes like that of slaves teaching Roman slave drivers skills.

      I am a victim of torture whilst a teenage high school and youthful tertiary institution student. I was detained in solitary confinement incommunicando by the veiligheid stak for indefinite periods. I know the ”civilisation” your correspondents would like us to bow down to.

      January 17, 2013 at 3:53 am
    17. DeeGee #

      You raise a very valid point and I can understand how shock could turn into rage. Similarly, someone posted on a recent blog about how Apartheid should be talked of in the same light as the holocaust. I cannot understand how that is possible. Holocaust, by definition, is genocide. Genocide is the destruction, or attempt to destruct, an ethnic, religious or national group (Rwanda, Germany, Cambodia, Sudan, Yugoslavia are reminders of how awful humankind can be). Was Apartheid a crime against humanity? Absolutely. But genocide it certainly wasn’t. Yes people were needlessly killed during Apartheid in the most unbelievable ways. On both sides (I remind you of the ANC’s Camp Quadro in Angola).

      We need to keep perspective, otherwise this debate we’ve been having over the last few weeks becomes a pointless exercise.

      January 17, 2013 at 7:49 am
    18. Facts People #

      I re-read the post as essentially the writer speaks from the heart. Question: Are we guilty for the sins of our fathers; and grandfathers and great grandfathers and great great grandfather etc up to 400 years? What if one was a benevolent missionary and one a farmer on land taken in 1913 – do they cancel each other out? What if I volunteer to teach in my spare time; can I then climb the corporate ladder in a freely competitive spirit?Do my 2 years forced military service being sweared at as “jou Ma se *^&^&^ (^&*&^” count for or against me ? Do the 6 times I have been robbed or highjacked and the murder of relatives during armed robberies count as fair retribution payments?

      Tax me, and give opportunities to the really down-trodden but make sure I believe that the system is not corrupt so that my reparations count for nothing.

      January 17, 2013 at 8:44 am
    19. Comrade Koos #

      “No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” – Nelson Mandela.

      If I look at the black people commenting on this article, I think they have every bit as much to learn as those whites that are still racist.

      January 17, 2013 at 10:40 am
    20. Zeph #

      @ntozakhona – there is no point as you have made your mind up and don’t seem willing to entertain anything else.

      January 17, 2013 at 11:21 am
    21. Mr. Direct #

      In context:

      Congo Wars (DRC): 3.8 Million dead
      Russian Civil Wars (Russia): 9 Million dead
      Dungan Revolt (China): 12 Million dead
      WWI: 65 Million dead
      WWII: 72 Million dead
      Holocaust: 11 Million dead
      Iraq war: 121 228 dead
      Boer Wars: 78 000 dead

      SAPS Crime statistics – deaths since 2004: 141 558

      Seems human beings are particularly good at killing each other.

      I am still not supporting apartheid, not in the slightest.

      I want to highlight that atrocities happen the world over, all colours and creeds, yet somehow the human spirit survives.

      My parents told me of the times that they lived in air raid shelters, scared of the German bombs raining down nearby. This was the bloodiest war in all human history. Should I resent the Germans? Should my parents have demanded apologies and compensation from the Germans? Do they have an excuse not reaching their potential? Do I?

      January 17, 2013 at 11:31 am
    22. Marianne de Leuca #

      @ Benzo.

      I don’t think that it is possible for black people (in our society as it is at present) to benefit from an inherent privilege. If I can give you an example of what I mean by the ‘inherent privilege of whiteness’ by relating what Arch. Emeritus Desmond Tutu said.

      He recounted how in 1972 he had been on a Nigerian plane where the entire crew, including the two pilots, were black. “We suddenly hit heavy turbulence and my first thought was that there wasn’t a white man in the cabin to bring us back to safety”.

      That anecdote of Tutu’s expresses how ‘whiteness’, a deeply internalised notion that ‘white is superior’, has eroded the self-image of black people. Another example I can give is the word ‘white trash’ which is commonly used to describe white people of a particular class in a derogatory way. Doesn’t the use of the racial epithet imply that being ‘trash’ is an aberration for white people, therefore by extension it must be normal for black people?

      Finally I can relate an incident from my personal experience which forced me to confront my own ‘whiteness”. A couple of years ago a medical practitioner had reason to refer me to another medical specialist, whom she recommended highly. She then told me that the specialist was from Zimbabwe and asked if I would I feel comfortable being treated by a black doctor. The fact that she felt it necessary to ask me that question made me realise just how much damage has been caused to all our psyches…

      January 17, 2013 at 12:28 pm
    23. Paul Barrett #

      Every time I read the claim that Africans must be thankful for Europeans bringing civilisation and technology, I cringe. And I have to wonder, is the author merely ignorant of what they are really saying, or are they actually bigoted (the possible hidden implication, sometimes stated outright, is that Africans would be uncivilised today without the arrival of Europeans.)

      I feel much the same when religious people claim that morality in modern civilisation derives from their religion and that even those of us who are not followers need to be thankful for their attempts to impose a morality on us instead of allowing us to develop our own.

      I second the recommendation of Guns, Germs & Steel for anyone stuck with the illusion that colonists were inherently superior in any way to those they colonised and inevitably brought improvements in their lives. I read the book, did not know there was a film version.

      January 17, 2013 at 12:53 pm
    24. Marianne de Leuca #

      @ Facts People

      I believe that every human being is born with an inherent moral worth, and that any claims of moral superiority or inferiority based on the racial stereotyping of a group of people reflects poor judgement because they do not take into account the personal histories and circumstances of individuals within that group. There is also always a risk that any discussion about race or the theory of ‘whiteness’ can be hijacked by individuals who use racial stereotyping as a means to escape personal accountability for their lives. I think that in the context of our racially divided society it is worth the risk, and also that reconciliation cannot be achieved without acknowledging the damage caused by the past.

      I understand that by virtue of my father having been a ‘white’ man, I have inherited the privilege of ‘whiteness’. Since I cannot escape that privilege, I need to live around it as best I can, and continuously question my thoughts and feelings. But that is my personal feeling as an individual, and I don’t seek to impose that on anyone else nor to judge anyone who may feel differently.

      January 17, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    25. Robert #

      Thanks Koketso for the riposte to the apartheid denialists. Marianne’s distinction between racism and whiteness is also refreshing in discussing race. Despite some people’s defensiveness I’m glad we are finally discussing race openly – it is the only way we will be able to engage on other matters of national importance such as politics and the economy, because race matters.

      January 17, 2013 at 1:40 pm
    26. Facts People #

      Sorry I think the biggest national irony and disgrace is that our soon to be vice-president proudly owns McDonalds SA – an American fast food franschise of dubious nutritional value and proven health damage. Furthermore a portion of in my opinion cardboard tasting hanburger sales goes overseas!!!!! Of something we can make in SA without the help of the Yanks!!!! It is bad enough that we buy consumer junk we don’t need ito electronics etc and waste foreign exchange, but at least that is for stuff where we lack the etchnological know-how. But the example set the nation for junk food like that is APPALLING! A truly cruel disgrace and un-South African suckering people into that junk-ness culture.

      January 17, 2013 at 5:58 pm
    27. ntozakhona #

      Zeph

      I thought you would not be able to, hence the challenge. There is nothing else to entertain, period.

      January 18, 2013 at 4:50 am
    28. Tofolux #

      @Deegee, there you go again. Always arrogating and pretending that this teacher-student relationship exists and insisting that you hold monopoly on knowledge. Apartheid and the deliberate destruction and dehumanisation of blacks in general and Africans in particular warrants description on the same scale as Holocaust or Genocide. What is revealing is that you cannot comprehend that all these destructive actions happened to human beings in your lifetime, with your participation and that you were the cause of our suffering. You forget that your history taught you that strandlopers were vermin and killed like dogs. Your forget that laws were enacted so that you could exact an imagined superiority you were taught had the blessing of God (no wonder you had those big churches to go and pray for your sins) You forget that you were taught that we had a certain behaviour that were unique to us only. I could go on, but please I have no amnesia around your behaviour and attitudes. Let me also remind you that your leaders of the apartheid govt were very close to the Nazis. They travelled to Germany and to America to study the programs of the Klu Klux Klan and Hitler. All over the world, there has been an acknowledgement and the taking of responsibility of these barbaric attitudes and yet here, you want to insist that apartheid ”wasnt that bad”.

      January 18, 2013 at 9:15 am
    29. Lennon #

      @ Facts People: But didn’t you know? Communists are excellent capitalists.

      January 18, 2013 at 10:21 am
    30. Facts People #

      Now the President gave his buddy the smart water meter job using USA parts at double the price of the local technology company…….

      Just good old greedi-ness but that is way these guys seem to do busi-ness.

      January 18, 2013 at 10:30 am
    31. Facts People #

      and they know they are doing wrong and being greedy and selling people down a river. they cannot even claim to have been brainwashed s kids

      January 18, 2013 at 10:31 am
    32. Zeph #

      @Ntozakhona – OK, let me try enlightening you to something. You are looking for specific acts of genocide by Africans against the colonialists?
      Well, you will not find many (or any) as they were not in a position to do so (due to disunity, insufficient armaments and the lack of practicing warfare for years with said armaments). This does not mean that they did not wish to exterminate and/or drive the white person away. They were just incapable at the time of doing so.
      Please read Guns, Germs and Steel as it might enlighten you as to circumstance coupled with the universal state of human nature.
      After reading this you might get perspective because your moral superiority is misplaced.

      January 18, 2013 at 12:02 pm
    33. DeeGee #

      @Tofolux. My goodness. There YOU go again. 95% of what you posted can be completely ignored, as you know nothing about my background, where I was educated and what I learned. But I will take you up on this – where did I say Apartheid wasn’t that bad. Monumentous fail!

      January 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm
    34. Zeph #

      @Ntozakhona – I don’t mind being descended from a Barbarian as it has a nice ring to it. I assume you put me in that group? Anyway, that was then and this is now so it has no relevance unless seeking petty scores.

      January 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    35. Tofolux #

      @Deegee &Zephr, its quite amazing that at the most appropriate times, you resort to amnesia, innuendo and gross misrepresentation. But sure, apartheid was a big lie and for all the beneficiaries to admit that they not only lived a lie but benefitted directly from a lie keeps their psychologists busy. Can I give you some advice, free yourselves from the chains of your psychosis and maybe you could end up being quite decent, honest, respectful and sobre in our discussions.
      Oh and by the way, you cannot enlighten on any subject because the ”verkramptness” and emotional unintelligence is way too obvious.

      January 21, 2013 at 10:51 am
    36. We the Ndebele, are also victims of genocide by the Shona tribe in Zimbabwe, we are a forgotten nation like we do not exist. The reason for that genocide and economic exclusion was to push us back to the so-called land of our origin, that is South Africa. When we escaped the evil Shona people, we thought we would be given a warm welcome from our fellow, Ngunis, Sothos and others, but alas to our horror, we were with black hatred which is on the same level as what we were subjected to by the Shona people in Zimbabwe. The only that we can interact with are whites and not our fellow African black South Africans. They call us horrible names,like for instance Kalangas or makwerekwere and yet not even one of us can speak nor understand isisiKhalanga a language that is spoken in South Western Zimbabwe. If we look at the evil that we have been subjected since our arrival in the land of our forefathers, I do not think anyone has ever been subjected to this kind evilness in history.

      Firstly our forefathers fled the evil Shaka(who is being championed as a hero by some here) and escaped to the Southern parts of the present day Zimbabwe, and theres after the attainment of the so-called, our soldiers who fought so gallantly during the liberation war were one by one detained and exterminated by the evil Shona regime and thereafter they came after the defence less civilians. Let me tell what I think black racism I think its worse white on black or black on white racism, zinukeni amakhwap

      January 21, 2013 at 2:19 pm
    37. Zeph #

      @Tofolux – another one of your ‘redirect fantasy tales’! You are amusing at times. Um, where did I say Apartheid was a lie? Where have I denied I benefited from Apartheid? Heck, get a grip please…
      My reference to ‘that was then and this is now’ was to my ancestors being barbarians. I even was even so considerate to think it would be misinterpreted and put it in a separate post relating to barbarians…any, back to reality.

      January 21, 2013 at 3:00 pm
    38. Jerome #

      “When we escaped the evil Shona people, we thought we would be given a warm welcome from our fellow, Ngunis, Sothos and others, but alas to our horror, we were with black hatred which is on the same level as what we were subjected to by the Shona people in Zimbabwe.”

      Do you think this could be because they remembered the genocide, slavery and other atrocities perpetrated on the Bakwena by Mzilikazi in what is today the Northern and Limpopo provinces during the eighteen twenties, or do you believe their hatred to be of a more recent origin?

      January 21, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    39. Jerome,all I am saying lets not play victims evrytime as Africans and yet we as African are equally guilty of hatred of our fellow human, as much as you people blame whites, you are equally guilty of thinking that just because you were on this of the river you are thus superior to other human beings born north of the river Limpopo, which mentality most 30 percent graduates espouses.

      January 21, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    40. Alistair McMillan #

      Yes, Koketsi, you are right. But let’s forget the color of the skin, let’s look at the colour of the, what shall I say, the heart, or the mind, i.e. the inside, the real person. There were many whites who abhorred what the Apartheid regime was doing, but only a few who had the guts to stand up against them. And I am proud that I physically tried to restrain some drunk white fools at my own risk. I’m not saying cultural or ideological groups aren’t important, that some groups (eg ‘whites’, which is in itself a gross oversimplification, but be that as it may) are not guilty, but sadly, that monster is a dead or dying monster and though its kids are running around wreaking havoc, there is a new big monster on the block and it is corruption, incompetence, selfishness, favors for friends etc. which is perpetuating the poverty of the masses. And dragging those who were previously the ‘haves’ down to become ‘have nots’. You just simply can’t say that it is all the fault of the whites. That only white people are bad people. I know, you did not say this. But it is what is not said rather than what is said in your article that implies this. Remember the power stuggles and the injustices between Shaka and Dingaan. Remember how the Koisan were driven from their ancestral lands – yes, by vile whites, but also at stages by blacks, more powerful and numerous, and better armed than they. That’s why I say, however unskilfully, let’s look at the colour of the heart, not the…

      January 22, 2013 at 1:18 am
    41. Alistair McMillan #

      Koketso, my apologies for getting your name wrong, sorry about that.

      January 22, 2013 at 1:26 am
    42. DeeGee #

      @ Tofolux. Why don’t you answer the question? Why must you obfuscate so? Try making a contribution to what is being discussed, rather than make it up as you go along.

      January 22, 2013 at 9:59 am

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