As I celebrated the emphatic victory of the Blue Bulls over the Chiefs on Saturday, a bad taste was left in my mouth when I saw an old South African flag waving in the stadium. That flag is right up there with the use of the word “kaffir” as far as I’m concerned. If you wave that flag in front of me that’s what you are calling me. Having said that, I also know that not everyone who was there was glad that happened.
Did I enjoy the victory still? Yes. Did I celebrate? Yes. Was I proud of a South African team? Yes. But that does not take away from the fact that the flag dampened the mood over the occasion. In one second, it took us to the past. It has no future in the new South Africa.
The only place that flag must be in is a museum. I know that it still flies over the Castle of Good Hope in Cape Town, that is understandable, it is history. We cannot pretend that flag never existed, but we cannot hide the waving of the flag behind freedom of expression. Like any freedom we enjoy, freedom of expression has limits. A freedom with no limits leads to anarchy.
Chapter 2, section 16 of our Bill of Rights says the following about freedom of expression:
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes –
1. freedom of the press and other media;
2. freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
3. freedom of artistic creativity; and
4. academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.
2. The right in subsection (1) does not extend to –
1. propaganda for war;
2. incitement of imminent violence; or
3. advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.
That flag will incite violence in the right place and at the right time. It also advocates hatred based on race and ethnicity. Banning that flag does not only protect those who are subjected to what it advocates, but those who advocate the hate it symbolises too. Imagine what would happen to that guy if he were to wave that flag in a Kaiser Chiefs vs Orlando Pirates match. I am all for freedom of expression, but it can’t go unchecked. It must have limits.
I believed then just as I do now that the people who were around the flag carrier should have removed it from whoever was waving it by force. Remaining silent and doing nothing about the flag might be viewed as an endorsement of what it represents even if those who were around the flag carrier were repulsed by the man’s actions. In the words of Martin Luther King Junior: “In order for evil to triumph, good people do nothing.” We all know what it stands for. It stands for the dehumanising of people of colour, racism, oppression, torture and everything that was wrong and immoral about the previous regime.
We could make the mistake of reacting out of emotion and claim that all white rugby supporters are racist and therefore supported the flag waver. The truth is we know better than that.
If the Germans can ban the waving of the Nazi flag I don’t understand why we can’t do the same.
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Why not just accept the old flag as a symbol of the good in the past instead of only the bad? After all, it has also been incorporated into the new flag. I think those who react so violently to the orange-white-and-blue are the same ones who nurse stereotypes of Afrikaners as proto-Nazis and who can’t get over the fact that it was Afrikaners who after all established the most successful country on the African continent. The excellence of Afrikaner rugby is but the most sensational example of this remarkable people’s contribution to the excellence of the new South Africa.
Khaya, I think you should go read Ndumiso Ngcobo’s “Is it coz i’m black” chapter on the regular AWM – you’ll understand that some people are really nursing their bruised ego, and perhaps we should regard them as patients who truly seek help.
I dont know why you all are so in to the wrong things black people always complain about stuff that dont matter like a flag or changing a town name but you seem not to see things that really matter like the crime rate and we proud to be the 2 most dangerous country in the world with a low employment rate well we beat all rates of bad i will say , thats why i live in Germany now for South Africa is now ending up like the rest of Africa ,just not working out so yes let us talk about the 2010 that will be i joke with the crime and every thing that goes with it and people when they see the new flag they say beware of that country its dangerous ..
Why does the new South Africa seem to equate any thing associated with Afrikanerdom with apartheid? It was a period of history, not it’s entirety. It is not the same as banning the swastika in Germany, it is akin to banning the national German flag because of a dark period in their history.
Shall we ban the national flag of Zimbabwe because of Mugabe’s racist policies?
Must all of Afrikaner culture be destroyed before you are happy?
For surely this vengefull spirit is at the bottom of it. Or guilt in the case of Dave Harris and Ms Lipinsky.
One final solution to the problem: “ban all flags”.
Happy now??
As a 49 year old white male I would like to say that the old flag means NOTHING to me! I am very proud of the new flag and could not give two hoots if the old one is banned. It has serious negative connotations for me too. Ban it, get rid of it, lets move forward!
@ Phillipa Lipinsky
““We cannot outlaw assholes”, I sure hope that Jon and Richard P are listening. It’s about time somebody put them in their place.”
Are you going to volunteer to do that, dearie?
Very Good Article
You should get an award for this one!
Great Stuff!
Last person to wave the old SA flag at Twickenham was a black guy. Curious eh.
“That flag will incite violence in the right place and at the right time.”
being a foreigner in south africa will incite violence in the right place and at the right time.
being a [non-member of an area's dominant ethnic group] will incite violence in the right place and at the right time.
should either of the above be banned? you may think it sounds specious to go that route, but there are so many things in that category. germany and austria have banned outward signs of “nazism” and as a result there is a thriving underground neo-nazi movement in both places; banning had the exact opposite of the desired effect.
and given the overall crime rate in this country, you would think that people would actually obey this law if it were to be enacted anyway.
when i’m in parts of the united states where people fly around the stars and bars, i think “dumb redneck” and let it go, despite the grief inflicted upon my family by such people. [and such people have inflicted a lot of grief on my family, let me tell you.]
are people here really that fragile that an outright ban is necessary? giving the idiots attention, which is what a ban would be doing, would be making the problem worse, not making it go away.
A lot of SA Blacks suffered under that flag – always displayed at the local arrest and donner police stations.
Only one flag at Loftus – not many public losers left?
Well I don’t think we need to engage in comparisons or justifications. Fact is that for the majority of citizens in this country the old flag and those flags that it encapsulates represent oppression. We don’t need it, and those who hoist it in defiance should enjoy as must sensitivity to their disposition in life as what they show others, namely none.
Ban and then burn flag I say…
@ mundundu
“such people have inflicted a lot of grief on my family, let me tell you”
You reap what you sow. Remember your recent racist statement against Indians http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/franblandy/2009/05/22/the-art-of-logic-–-the-identity-row/
Just a reminder to keep things in perspective mate!
@Fhatuwani Rambau – don’t associate the ‘majority’ of white people with this. Every country has it’s problem children who cling to a disgraceful past – it doe NOT reflect the mood of the majority.
the argument of banning the communist flag is silly. the communist symbol is used by communist organisations around the world without issue. stalinist russia was a part of communism, not the whole of it.
arguing that the old SA flag was created by the brits is also irrelevant; it was the flag under which an apartheid government ruled.
so stop squirming and finger pointing and trying to be so smart! the old flag is offensive, recognise that, in balance i agree it shouldn’t be banned, but give the morons a good bollocking should you see them flying it.
big up to the white south africans who have commented here who have voiced their displeasure of the waving of the old flag even though others sound like they wish they could have waved that flag themselves.
old flag or not, we’re moving forward and there ain’t nothing those who still long to be excluded from the world can do about it. the past is past good-bye and move on or the past will distroy you. you will never enjoy the now if you are still stuck in the then. you who lives in the past also belong to the museum. i will take my kids around one time to see what the past looked like i hope you are a picture of the future not the past. big up mr dlanga.
here it is:
http://sportblogs.24.com/ViewBlog.aspx?blogid=5c9c7c8d-f6eb-4343-a5c0-b96758f5fa84
man – the best thing to do would have been to walk RIGHT up to this MORON, and taken a clear-as-day pic of him from the front waving that flag, and then put it out there in the blogosphere…
Khaya, instead of banning the obscene emblem how about making a fortune from it? … I have a business proposal that could make us billionaires … toilet paper printed with the old flag.
I am always gobsmacked by some white people’s views, they always leave me wondering whether people become defensive because they feel personally attacked when black people (or anyone else for that matter) brings up issues of racism and apartheid or because they truly believe what they say. I am always left wondering whether they realise what country they’re leaving in and the damage done by apartheid and colonialism to the majority of our people.
Any right thinking person knows that apartheid was evil and anything that symbolises it should not be allowed in this country still trying to come to terms with its effects, full stop! That some people don’t seem to get that is shocking and makes me think that we have a long way to go. I become hopeful, though when some white people are able to separate themselves from apartheid and racism.
It’s also always interesting to see that people find ways of justifying the unjustifiable – ‘well, the communist flag is offensive to me, so it’s ok that 90% of the population should be offended by the apartheid flag’.
Reconciliation and the generous spirit seem to be expected only from black people, who did nothing wrong in the first place. How shameful and ungrateful.
Obviously flag is offensive to blacks. So what if it came before the Nats – the previous crowd including the British gave no rights to blacks either.They were no better than the nats just smoother. Whites seem to think there were two sides who both had faults during the struggle. This is like saying the french resistance and the nazis were just two factions both guilty of atrocities. I don’t mind the old flag but that is just my opinion – it just causes unneccessay trouble
Come on, people. Whatever you feel about the past, let’s not call the flagwavers morons, idiots or rascists. They’re people with rights, just like you and me, and waving a piece of cloth with colours on it around pretty much is one of the most legal things you can do.
It merits repeating: nobody here knows what the waver’s intentions or state of mind was when they waved it. By shortguessing them as racsists you are merely guilty of stereotyping.
We don’t need stereotypes in Mzansi.
Wherever the hammer-and-sickle banner flew, that country was invariably a one-party brutal dictatorship where dissidents were imprisoned, tortured, forced into slave labour or, simply, executed.
Now THERE is an emblem much worse than the swastika or something as tame as the fine old orange-white-blue national flag.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20090604055503699C400786
Somebody made the big time. Good work Khaya.
Pity about the unfortunate COPE tendencies boet
Those waving the old SA flag 15yrs into democracy could be equated with those waving their “struggle” card at every turn. They cannot bear to accept the new SA.
They should all “get a life” and let us get on with nation bulding.
While I don’t agree, I did not hear you say that it’s probably not polite of Jacob Zuma to sing about his Machine Gun…if that doesn’t incite violence, then I don’t know. Also, lets rename a street in Durban Che Guevara.
Put your money where your mouth is and apply to the Constitutional Court to ban the flag. Then, ban Afrikaans, Pretoria etc. etc.
Grow up.
Get over it!! Stop living in the past and blaming apartheid and the old flag for everything. It’s time to grow up. By the way, that guy will NEVER go to a soccer match waving the old flag just as much as a Black man will go to a rugby match and sing “Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer”!…So what’s your point? Stop playing the “black and apartheid” card…it’s getting very boring. We as white people are moving forward and prospering. You can too if you’re only willing
My feeling is that we are not really changing or moving forward if we want to take legal action (what is proposed – beat him, lock him up without trial?) against someone (1 in 50 000) that waves the old flag.
The new SA allows me an opinion and the freedom to express it. It should be recognised that this freedom may offend someone but, in the new SA, he/she should recognise that this is a part of the freedom that was fought for.
Let’s move beyond petty things and try and embrace true freedom and equality. Then use our energy to make SA better by fighting crime, corruption etc.
This many posts on this subject tells me that it still hits very raw nerves – for everyone.
personally, I like the old flag. Not because I am white or think backwards or of white supremacy and all that bulls*it, but because that is the only flag I knew when growing up. As a 10 year old I was able to play outside in the veld until after dark, our school was never burned down, I learned of respect towards others in my school, I learned to keep my country clean and I learne what it is to be proud of who I am. My kids dont have that today, they are not safe, the ANC leaders sing of machine guns and the likes of Malema are complete racists. What is so much better under the new flag than the old one? I understand for some the association is traumatic, but that is because of ACTIONS against them. The flag did not hurt them, people did, just as PEOPLE today are hurting us, not the flag. I think tolerance is what we need in this country. Not cries of banishment.
Khaya,
Although I agree with your sentiment, don’t you think it’s time to write about the real issues in South Africa, rather than one idiot at a televised game?
My wife and kids were involved in an armed robbery at our house a year ago. My wife was beaten, raped and told that all white people must die. My kids were beaten and tied up for a few hours.
Now please tell me you’ve got the mentality to write about more worrying issues in our beautiful country than an idiot at a rugby match? Or are you gonna turn around and look the other way while this continues on a daily basis to our citizens? Tell me you are bigger than this?
It left a bad taste in my mouth seeing the old flag, but what is more worrying is the fact that this incident got the attention of the world, but daily incidents like robbing, raping and killing are overlooked.
Instead you find solace in overlooking one of the best Super rugby finals you’ll ever see, and complaining about an idiot with a flag. If that dampened your mood, then please look the other way in future when another idiot holds up an old flag at a rugby match, you know, like looking away at the real issues in our country!
As Scarface said: Grow Up!
don’t ban the flag. We cannot give our government that right. The issue I have is if that flag is outlawed today, what will be banned tomorow. Seeing how the ANC ignores the contributions of other Freedom fighter(Sobukwe, Biko), who knows what they will do with movements that will one day oppose them. I hate that flag, but i believe that it gives us an opportunity to deal with issues such as racism. Banning only gives the Racists more power. We may create an opening for froups like the Nazis and KKK. Waving their flags in secret meetings, planning crazy terrorist schemes. As long as its out in the open, I feel safer cause I will know when its coming.
A few days ago I was driving and decided to stop a second or two before the traffic light went red. I heard crazy hooting behind me, when I looked in my rear view, a white man a car behind me going furious, and saying he knows why I’m stupid – it’s because of the colour of my skin. I wanted to insult him too, but it was about 7.45am and I was not about to let someone ruin my mood for the whole day – instead I looked at him and laughed and he became more furious and I continued with my day.
My point – If someone doesn’t like you or hates you for whatever reason, it’s thier problem. There’s no point in wasting time trying to change thier mind. Let them live thier lives and continue with yours
Truly speaking,constutution aside and apatheid out the window, we need to focus on more important issues in our society than mundane things as banning of flags! Whoever that idiot was, am sure he flippin’ got the message now and hopefully he won’t display his stupidity in PUBLIC again. Fellow South Africans, be you black, white, indian, coloured, red, green…whatever colour you are, those days are over…get used to it. We will not tolerate your intolerance of the new South Africa. I may have not been around and I may have not studied history but what I do know is that we REALLY need to move on with the times….Blacks had it bad, so what? Get over it…People died in the process, hello??? they are not going to be resurrected from the dead (as yet), we are thankful for all they did, we respect their memory and we are truly greatful…we are moving on…all the whites, boers or british who think they are having it tough…GROW UP… “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen” Call me a “kaffir”, words don’t hurt me….let’s pull our acts together and live harmoniously, that is really not asking for much…or is it? It’s your choice….just remember though…THOSE DAYS ARE GONE!!!
I know I’m late, but I thought I’d throw this out there anyway.
People *died* under that flag. For that flag. Truly believing in their nation. And it paid off, didn’t it? We wouldn’t be where we are now if it weren’t for them.
So, go ahead, hate the flag if you must, but please remember the blood, sweat and tears spent by the people who died for us, before it got its negative connotations.
@frigmage: People died under that flag? Indeed they did. Protesters, strikers, people who suffered under the stress of forced removals, people who were prevented from access to medical care, people in unsafe working conditions in the mines. People beaten to death in jail. etc etc Yep. Loads of people died under that flag.
I don’t think we could ban it the way our freedom of speech works.
Khaya,maybe I would’ve felt the same as you if I were a black person,so I’m sort of trying to think me into your position.
Look, we can all get emotional about the old flag,black or white. We can also get emotional about the new flag too,good or bad.
I was raised under the old flag,I did’nt asked to be raised under that flag,it just happened to be. The old flag is all I knew. Ye right,bad things happened in SA while that flag was flying,but we have to get over it.Just as Afrikaners had to get over British domination, and we did, you must carry on too.We even had the union jack inside the old flag.
Remember,is just a piece of material man with a design on it. Personally I don’t accept the new flag,nobody asked my opinion or held a referendum on it. If you dislike the old one,don’t try and force it down the throats of people on the other side of the spectrum.
You do’nt see us carrying on about the new flag.Remember we lost our freedom because black people are in the majority,so you can’t just force the new one to be accepted just like that. We have a history as well,good or bad.
If the old flag was so bad why was’nt it banned at the CODESA negotiations,because they did’nt
deem it neccessary,that’s why. Then the old part of the national anthem(DIE STEM) should’ve also been banned.We can go on and on.
What concerns me,is that you have a big voice with the Mail & Guardian and I encourage you with your next article to paint both sides of the political spectrum and not just the one side.
Never ever can any law or so called political correctness force a person’s heart and mind in a certain direction.The National Party tried it for 46yrs and could not succeed. The ANC will not succeed either.
SMART is also trying through court action to get the flag banned.If I was a betting man,I would bet that they won’t succeed. It’s about freedom of expression within the context of the law and as it stands for now,it’s not illegal.Once it’s banned,what’s next?
You journalists know about the freedom of expression threat towards you guys,so please see it in that context. It’s things like this that prohibited SA from becoming a nation in unity after 16yrs.
The SACP is still using that much hated symbols of communism,which were responsible for millions of people dying throughout the last century. How about a discussion on communist symbols to be banned. Maybe something new to think about.
Someone made an interesting video about the South African flags, old and new.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huU5cJvbzjM
I think that people who still like to fly the old flag, should wake up and be flying it upside down as a sign of distress, like the video says.