I’m consistently amazed — no, make that, concerned — at the amount of seemingly intelligent people who still hold this opinion. It’s easy to write off the usual suspects for comments like this, but when people in their 30s with professional careers in high-powered positions make a comment like this around dinner tables, it beggars belief. Now I’m never one to begrudge anyone their opinion, but I’d like to blow this myth out of the water.
Firstly, let’s look at presidential politics. Mugabe moved very quickly after freedom to make himself a president for life. At that stage (early 1980s), Zimbabwe was a prosperous country and the world, facing other significant issues, turned a blind eye. Mugabe also made these moves quickly, at a stage when the populace was still blindly following him and, perhaps more importantly, before democratic institutions and checks and balances had found their feet.
Zimbabwe’s Constitution at that stage was also poorly defined and malleable (it was negotiated at Lancaster House in London, as part of a peace agreement ending years of civil war), which Mugabe leveraged very well. Contrast this with South Africa. We have an immensely strong Constitution that not even Thabo Mbeki (with all his paranoia and power politics) has tried to amend through two terms, and that remained robust under all the challenges of Madiba’s presidency.
The Constitution holds independent judiciary and has been well respected by all and sundry within the ANC, the party largely responsible for it. So, 13 years after the fall of apartheid, we still have a strong and unaltered Constitution with a range of weapons against an overbearing president.
In the Loony Tunes version of Zuma’s potential presidency, these same individuals see Zuma being given free reign to change the Constitution, change the entire economic progression of the country and make himself a corrupt, benevolent ruler. How so? What will the half of Cosatu members — supposedly his bedrock of support — that don’t want him as president (Markinor study earlier this year) have to say about that? What will the plenty of power players left in the upper echelons of the ANC say about that? Will Parliament just rubber-stamp any Bill in front of it, regardless of its merit? Will the judiciary stand idly by? These individuals will confidently reply yes to such questions, but there is no logical basis for this assertion, only prejudice.
Secondly, let’s look at the economics. South Africa is an immensely more powerful economy than Zimbabwe ever was. Yes, Zimbabwe was once the “bread basket of Africa”, but that was a reference to its agricultural production, a primary good that was delivered internally and for immediate neighbours. South Africa has a developed-world, complex good economy, strong in service and manufactured goods that makes the country irretrievably connected to the international economy. Look at the pressure Mbeki is under from international leaders about the state of Zimbabwe currently, and that is on humanitarian grounds only. A South African president would find himself or herself under unbearable pressure should any of these “mistakes” be made on his or her watch. Our economy is unbelievably robust, and is infinitely more difficult to ruin as agricultural production, the cornerstone of Zimbabwe’s strength, was by Mugabe.
Thirdly, let’s look at property rights. This is a huge legacy issue in South Africa, and it is incredible how little trouble it has caused thus far. The land-restitution process, although slow, has resolved almost all of the urban land claims peacefully since 1994, with the final claims being resolved by 2008, representing a total of almost 80 000 claims. That is staggering.
Agricultural land is more difficult, and the government is short of its target of 30% redistribution by 2014. However, this process has been slow because of the government’s absolute adherence to the letter of the law, not because of any improprieties. The land-restitution process allows for a willing-buyer, willing-seller process in almost every case, except when the seller is being obstructive in selling price (where a genuine land claim has been made on his or her farm) and negotiations have failed for six months or more. In this case, the government can appoint an independent adjudicator to review the process and decide on a fair selling price for the farm, which is given to the farmer and the land expropriated. This has only happened once so far, and is a far cry of land grabs in Zimbabwe.
Land restitution is something we have to live with in South Africa. That land was taken from people under apartheid, and there has to be restitution for them. Farmers get the full price of their land, and that will not change. In my view, property rights are cemented in the Constitution, and property rights are rock solid in South Africa.
Finally, let’s look at the global situation. South Africa is a strategic player on the world stage, for its position as the economic and political powerhouse of Africa, its control of globally scarce minerals and its importance as an emerging economy for the global economy itself. There are too many players with vested interests in the country for even hints of a “Zimbabwe situation” to occur. With all that’s going on politically in South Africa at present, read the European press, how interested they are in the local occurrences. There’s too much at stake in South Africa for anything to be allowed to flounder here. Unfortunately for Zimbabwe, the same could not be said for that country at the time.
Let’s add to this rebuttal in comments, and build a solid counter-argument for the dinner-party blow-hards. It’s time this was put to bed. And it’s time these apologists put their backs into making our proud nation work, and stop wishing it to fail.
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131 Responses to “‘South Africa’s going the way of Zimbabwe’”
Fantastic article, Jonty. This argument will be well used when I’m standing over braais in the near future. Well done.
If (white) people truly believed that SA was going to do a Zim, then they would be selling their Tuscan villas, liquidating their share portfolios, and start building a life somewhere else. Some have done so, but the vast majority don’t. Alternatively, they would start getting involved in political activism to to pre-empt our Zanufication. Again, we don’t really see that happening. But still, you hear the comments “we are going the way of Zim.” I don’t know why we do, but I don’t think they really believe what they saying.
I lived in Zimbabwe, through a lot of the nonsense that happend there, until I joined the “chicken run” and moved to SA.
I then set up a new life in SA, eventually with my own very successful business and a very positive attitude.
However, after Thabo Mbeki came to power, the parallels between Zimbabwe and SA soon became glaringly apparent, with the utterances and actions of Mbeki echoing those of Mugabe 20 years earlier.
After having relatives and friends violently murdered or injured, my family and I experiencing several violent crime events first hand, my business under threat by BEE, I decided it was time to join the new “chicken run” and moved my family to the UK.
I was astounded at how many South Africans were already here, and many of them well educated, wealthy and thinking people. Wherever I travel in the UK I encounter South Africans - and I do a lot of travelling.
Almost all ex-South Africans miss SA terribly, but most agree that the beloved country that we once knew and loved is no more.
From the way that Jonty Fisher writes, I suspect that he is one of the many remaing South Africans with no access to a foreign passport, or any other easy means of leaving the country. I have seen his type of attitude many times before, and invaribly it is from people who understandably are trying to make the best of a bad situation. He has my greatest sympathy.
South Africa was a fantastic country, filled with promise and hope, and sufficient natural resources and skills to have the potential to be one of the most wealthy countries in the world.
Sadly all is being squandered in a misguided effort to redress the wrongs of the past - real or perceived.
Sorry Jonty - I wish you well with your future in SA, and I sincerely hope that your efforts can somehow help to stem or reverse the tide that is heading your way from the north.
And before anyone else makes the comment - yes, I chickened out, I could not take the heat, and at the suggestion of the SA government itself, I left.
Hear hear. Not sure why it is, but when it comes to similar issues such as this, Saffas tend to back down and accept the opinion which is delivered the most confidently. For Pete’s sake, why? Just because some harr’gat oke, bangs on about how going the way of Zim is inevitable, one should accept it! Nonsense. Allan B mentions all sorts of problems with SA, however the article is regarding the Zim issue, and fails to see the point. Sorry Allan, but I think you’re mistaken.
I also, chickened out so I’m not pointing fingers. However, we remain optimistic.
What Jonty mentions is precisely the reason so many have there eyes elsewhere!
However, I stand (a little) with Allan, in that if you’re going to leave, leave already! If you’re not going to, for the sake of our children shut up and become the Saffa you were born to be.
I honestly don’t need your sympathy or your patronising attitude. I run two media companies, travel overseas each year, have access to a British passport (not that I choose to use it) and could comfortably choose to live in any country in the world I desired. With all this, I choose to live in South Africa, because the opportunities and quality of life I have here is incomparable.
I understand that you need to hold this view to justify and reinforce your decision to leave the country, but that does not make it a truth.
What you’re doing is hiding behind rhetoric, the exact rhetoric I’m debunking here. You say that “all is being squandered in a misguided effort to redress the wrongs of the past - real or perceived”. I suspect you’re referring to BEE and your view that it is ‘ruining our economy’ - is 5% GDP growth and the longest period of consecutive quarters of JSE growth in our history proof of this? Is it the fact that SA’s growth has been largely driven by Black middle class growth developed by BEE, and that the more moderate Black middle class is the ultimate bulwark against a future that you claim we’re already in. You talk of South Africa being “filled with promise and hope, and sufficient natural resources and skills to have the potential to be one of the most wealthy countries in the world.” What has changed since you left for the UK?
It seems that the people who make comments like “SA is going the way of Zim” actually have no valid reasons for their statements when probed. I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine about this very topic… she outrightly said that within ten years time all of us ‘white’ people would have to emmigrate. When I questioned her on this she simply said that crime is already so bad that one could only imagine how it would have escalated by that time! Am I missing something or are most/all white South Africans this negative about our state of affairs? According to the article above we’re a long long way off from ever ending up like Zim and South Africans need to realize this and embrace it. We live in a prosperous, beautiful country that I certainly am proud to call home. Here’s to hoping that people will wake up, smell the coffee and get out of their bubble of ignorance.
Wow!! Steady on there Jonty!! I misjudged you - you belong to the other side - making money hand over fist and living the life of Riley. Having been a business man in SA, I met a lot of people like you. But when/if the crunch comes you will also gather up your hard earned wealth and move on. That I can guarantee.
At the moment you will probably be living a comfortable life, far from the real world, ridiculing people like myself who have actually seen and experienced firsthand what happend in both Zim and SA.
Again, I wish you the best - enjoy it whilst you can. And if you consider my attitude patronising, I am sorry that I gave that impression, but having been on both sides, I feel genuine sympathy for people like yourself, and in fact the whole of the general population of SA - whatever colour or creed.
Andrew, you are quite correct - I did not speak of specific issues common with Zim and SA, but I instead spoke of some of their real world results. I would like to think that people who can see the parallels would have picked them up from Jonty’s article - despite the spin he put on them.
I could cite many individual specific incidences of the ongoing land grab and the intimidation and murder of white farmers and common folk - a lot of these incidences having occurred to people I know or have met personally - and it continues… The adherence to that brilliant document, the Constitution, is a joke.
I sincerely hope that you are correct, and that “alles sal reg kom”, and if that wonderful day should occur, I along with the several millions of Saffas who have left and are still leaving, will be back to rejoin and help rebuild the rainbow dream.
In the meantime I will sit here and despair at those blinkered by spin, and the others motivated by greed.
I like to think of myself as a realist. My family comes first and then the rest. I saw the parallels with Zim and SA, so instead of standing around the braai whinging, I joined the “chicken run” and took my family and my hard earned skills elsewhere to where they would be appreciated for their value and not for the colour of our skins.
And yes, Jonty can cite statistics until the camels come skating home, but anyone can spin statistics to look like anything they want them to - as I said, I have been in business in SA and still have family and friends doing business in SA and I know exactly what the BEE farce is doing to business and the economy. Yes there are success stories too, but the rest is costing the economy dearly.
BTW - I know it is off topic, but I am still not living in paradise - I see other social parallels with SA in the UK too… and I am afraid.
Why do there need to be two distinct and decided camps on this issue? I feel the truth may be somewhat hidden in the middle here, between the ‘positives’ and the ‘whingers’ as they regrettably have been branded.
Jonty, I am sorry but there are a great number of parallels between the situation that has developed here in South Africa and that of Zimbabwe and any other number of African countries correctly perceived to be on the wrong track. Nobody is necessarily looking at SA vs Zim, fact for fact as you do, checking to see if we comply, but the overall trend is there to be seen. The corruption, the nepotism, the effective ANC one-party state (who will challenge them in the next 10 years?), laughable politics such as floor-crossing, BEE deals to benefit the grossly enriched ruling party elite, arms deals to do the same, health ministers in the stone age, presidents who agree with them, chiefs of police with links to organised crime…its all here and its all real. In addition, our goverment gives tacit approval to Mugabe’s regime by saying nothing while we, its citizens live with the fallout of refugees and refugee-based crime. That, by itself, is cause for alarm and often the very reason why the dinner table pundits have the kind of ammo they do - if you don’t disagree with a tyrant, you either don’t care or you agree, not so? Quiet diplomacy is like the emporer’s new clothes, invisible and therefore probably not there at all.
Maybe you are one of those people who tend to be positive in the face of all fact and against all odds. Commendable in some instances but a little bit ‘hollywood’ mixed with ’self-help’ and sometimes perhaps one can also try realistic. Its ok to say that there is a problem and in certain areas we have some pretty damn big ones. Democracy is about balancing the ruling party with opposition. Why people decry opposing opinion as whinging in SA is totally beyond me. Democracy demands it or we become an effictive single-party dictatorship with no checks and balances. Whinge loudly I say when you see wrong happening or should we just keep quiet and tow the party line?
On the flip-side, living in the past and quietly wishing for the days of colonial domination is equally as idiotic, as is gapping it at the first signs of trouble or anything less than pure paradise. Lets be fair and realise that there is an inherited legacy of a lopsided system here and do what we can to help correct the problem. Lets not be obstructive, lets not make a career out of finding fault with people who are trying hard to change things, often with great resistance and lets realise as you have stated that BEE in philosophy, perhaps not always in its implementation, should create an emerging middle class with cash to spend and it will create jobs and stability. That does not mean, however, that we should keep quiet when we see the ruling elite becoming billionaires while the average South African is forced to strike to make ends meet. Thats not what the struggle was perportedly all about. That was not the line that was sold to the people who supported the ANC all those years.
One last comment, your faith in our constitution is commendable as is the document. It is only valuable while its ideals are being actively upheld here by all, especially the ruling party. Remember, Zimbabwe is supposedly a democracy with a democratically elected government (as endorsed by our government)…they may as well have a world-class constitution to throw in to the mix. It is meaningful only if it is respected, not just because it exists.
Having lived in both Zimbabwe (Mount Pleasant, Harare) and South Africa (Oranjezicht, Cape Town) in the early 1990’s, I feel qualified to at least have an opinion on the future of the white man in Africa. I live in the United States, my country of birth, and fondly remember my happy days living in Africa as a much younger single vagabond. Those were the days! Anyway, I see many parallels between majority black governments in Africa and majority black urban governments here in the USA. They are often marked by unbridled corruption, inefficiency and tribalism. In my hometown of Birmingham, Alabama, we have an election today for Mayor between an entrenched black corrupt elite, who feel untouchable and unaccountable to the voters. Anytime, they are confronted on their corruption and incompetence, they scream racism (i.e.colonialism) and sadly, many black voters so resent white success that they quickly fall in line and blame whitey for all of their problems. It seems that many blacks here and in Africa would rather be led on the path to Hell by a corrupt black man (i.e. Mugabe or Mbeki)than led to the Promised land by a white man or an honest black man because he is so easily demagogued as a sell-out. In this regards, we actually have a very qualified black candidate who is being called white because he is successful, enjoys widespread white support and, god forbid, was married to a white women, although they are now divorced. He is demagogued on black radio stations for acting white, which has always been the kiss of death, for a black politician here! Anyway, I am rambling but I can assure you that Africa will have a very difficult time prospering and offering opportunities for all of its citizens until it quits blaming whitey for all of its problems just as many blacks here in the USA have failed to prosper because they consistently refuse to accept responsibility for their own failures and blame the legacy of slavery for everything!
Thanks for your well-outlined comments. I applaud your want to find a middle ground, but my post is not targeted at your position, more on those that firmly do believe that South Africa is “going the way of Zimbabwe” and love to mention that at any occasion.
My argument is never that we should stand aside and let injustices occur, quite the opposite. We need it in spades. But what we don’t need, is absolute negativity that borders on wishing failure so that a few ‘disgruntleds’ can say “we told you so”. We need more positivity in this country, with a correlating commitment to making it work.
Let’s be clear, (and this is aimed much less at you and more at Allan B) there is nowhere in my post that I’m saying that South Africa is a perfect society, what I’m arguing is that just because we have issues (faced by ANY emerging economy) does not imply that we are going to be the next Zimbabwe, a failed state worthy of outside intervention that has a failed economy, is actively evicting racial groups without recompense, and is involved in violence against any dissenting voices.
Every emerging economy (think Brazil, India, China, Mexico) have similar challenges of corruption, nepotism, and crime. Why is there only optimism around those nations, but yet, there are people inside this country calling a failed state within the next few years. Why must people push their heads into the sand and immediately believe that there is this irrational foregone conclusion? If you would like to change the argument to say that all you’re implying is that South Africa is “on the wrong track”, then I’m willing to engage on that debate in a different post, but it simply does not imply a parallel with Zimbabwe, for exactly the points outlined in my post. What I’m arguing is that just because we are afflicted with of some of those issues that you’ve raised, South Africa is “going the same way as Zimbabwe” - it’s simply way too early in the game to be even considering that endgame. An argument that just because it could happen, it will, is nonsensical.
I disagree with the argument that BEE has not been a positive in this country. Yes, BEE has greatly enriched a small group of individuals along the way, especially in its initial frenzied status before the DTI’s scorecards were brought in, but it has also built a Black Middle class with a combined buying power that accounts for 28% of total SA spend, which will overtake white spend in the next 2 years, and which is growing at almost 30% y.o.y (Google “Black Diamond research”). One has to look beyond the easy clichéd arguments to truly form an opinion. People can argue all they want that BEE is unfair, but what is the alternative for reparation? Are they of the opinion that we should ignore reparation and have a huge majority of the population that are given no assistance to gain employment, even thought they, or their parents, were not given any opportunity to develop under Apartheid? They mistake poverty alleviation as BEE’s fault, it’s not. It is not BEE’s role to uplift the entire nation in a decade, that’s ludicrous, but it has done an enormous amount to build a platform for future growth, and future stability, through a strong Black middle class. It is Government’s job to lift the poor out of their misery, one which they are under more pressure to address by the left of the ANC.
On the final point of the Constitution, this is an argument perpendicular to my post. The point is not that the Constitution is infallible; it’s that the ANC currently respects the Constitution. Who knows what will happen in 50 years time, but why does that automatically infer that the Constitution is worth nothing? Can the same be said about the US Constitution? Or more realistically, of Brazil or India. No, because they have more time in them, more stable societies, and you have to have respect for that. But why does that automatically lead people to think that it will be cast aside on some political whim.
Call me an optimist, but I have a lot more faith in this country than seemingly do others. Great societies are created by those who believe and create change, not by those who wish the worst on it. If we all believed that just because something bad could happen then it will, we would not have any society to live for, anywhere in the world.
Jonty you are doing a heck of a job debunking these misleading notions. I think our constitution that limits the presidential terms is so crucial in differentiating South Africa from Zimbabwe. Furthermore the ANC is far from being a one man show similliar to the power that Mugabe wields in ZanuPF. I am sometimes unimpressed by the quality of debates that tend to go on in the ruling alliance, but there is clearly sufficient dialog and debates to avoid a dictatorship from developing.
As for the many problems of corruption, crime, nepotism, etc. that are cited frequently as evidence of going the Zim way, I just feel that they inadequately satisfy a condition to end up in Mugabe’s position. Even the USA suffers from some level of corruption and crime. This is not to make an excuse for what needs to be done with our local problems, but it is to say that our expectations should also be reasonable as a young third world democracy.
On a more positive note, we could be very surprised in the next few years to see Zimbabwe improving, without a regime change espoused by Britain and the USA.
Good article, nice to see some positive vibes for once.
There are plenty of things wrong with the country and these can only be fixed with action by everyday people. Whether it’s politics or Not For Profit organisations, get involved!
Take action. No matter where you live, democracy needs an educated and active civil society.
Nothing wrong with complaining, as long as you can back it up with action, which few in SA can. But no doubt after reading my reply everyone will and SA’s problems will be solved.
Ah Grant! The voice of sweet reason! Your eloquence exceeds mine sir! Thank you.
I find it quite amazing that the moment anyone takes an opposing viewpoint in this kind of debate, they are immediately branded as negative and spouting rhetoric. Never have I even remotely suggested that I wish anything but good fortune upon SA. However, from my perspective I do not believe that SA is going about it’s business the right way.
Your comments on the corruption and nepotism in SA would have applied equally in Zim 20 years ago. And this I believe is what the crux of this discussion is all about. It is not about people wishing ill upon SA, but rather about trends.
All forcasting of any sort is based upon trends, and if you look at the trends in Zim 20 years ago and compare them to the current trends in SA, you will see unmistakable parallels.
There has been a vast amount of excellent work done on various instruments such as the Constitution and well thought out laws being promulgated, but unless these instruments are vigorously applied, they are less than useless.
Instruments that favour one group over another, no matter how well intentioned, can only have overall negative results. BEE is one of these instruments.
Historically white people in SA held the power and the skills. Simply promulgating laws to force power and wealth into the hands of the black people in SA is at best a short term solution to appease those intent on revenge against the whites. In the long term it strikes a dagger into the very heart of the economy, because like it or not, the whites had the skills to run a successful economy. Those skills have fled SA in their droves! The brain drain as it is called. Once those skills are lost, it is exceedingly difficult to recover them.
Now, have a look at Zim 20 years ago and you will see exactly the same trend.
Real equal opportunities would have been far more appropriate.
The major difference between Zim and SA is sheer size. Zim is tiny by comparison to SA in all respects (except perhaps the ego of its leader). Inertia is the main factor keeping SA going. Yes there are all sorts of great initiatives being set up, but if you look at the overall picture - not just the questionable overspun statistics - you will observe a downward trend… just like Zim.
Comparing SA to the likes of Brazil, India, China and Mexico is invalid becaused these countries never laboured under the terrible mistake that was Apartheid.
Simply reversing Apartheid is not a solution. The TRC was supposed to reset everything back to a base line, and the Constitution was supposed to ensure that in the immortal words of Nelson Mandela “never again will one group suppress another group in this country”. Sorry Mr Mandela, your legacy has been corrupted.
I agree with Jonty when he says that “Great societies are created by those who believe and create change”. However, when the odds are stacked so high against those who believe in meaningful and valuable change, it is time to reconsider if it is worth it to even try.
I realise that this is a rather defeatist attitude, but it was not always that way: My wife and I were involved in all sorts of community based activities in SA, from donating our time sitting at the understaffed Police 10111 help desk answering calls, to chairing a comunity committee comprising an area of 10,000 households (including many black households) that met regularly with the local council and other political and civil authority figures. We saw the absolute worst side of humanity and encountered political manoevering of the most abominable kind, and in the end we just wore ourselves out, with no visible signs of improvement. Our beloved country broke our hearts.
I really do hope that SA does come right before it crashes, but the trends which parallel those of Zim are just too strong in my opinion.
Jonty, I vehemently disagree with you, our country with all the resources it has, has an enormous problem with crime, and the entire world knows this. Regardless of everything we have in South Africa, this single aspect will lead to the ultimate demise of this beautiful country, similar to what is currently taking place in Zimbabwe. The the western economic powerhouse companies are concerned with financial risk, and will not invest in a country at risk. When I can look out of my window and not see bars and 8 foot fences, then I might change my opinion. I lived in Atlanta for 7 years(a city of 4 million plus people) I had a remote control for my car garage, it was a luxury and not a matter of life and death. I lost the key to the front door of my house and never bothered to get another key because I never locked the front the front door, unless I went away for an extended period of time. That is the way it use to be in Zimbabwe and South Africa. I love this country but being ignorant to glaring obstacles and pitfalls, and believing the rest of the world would not let South Africa drown in its internal problems is totally unrealistic. The rest of the world has enough problems of their own, and they will not make risky investments, if their are safer alternatives. The bottomline is the rest of the world doesnt really care if we end up like Zimbabwe or not, (they will just take their investments ant holidays somewhere else), China is a glaring example of this, it has a poor human rights record, but it has amazing financial wealth and opportuniy, that is why companies are investing there. Fixing this country is our problem, and ours to fix, thinking a foreign country will come to our rescue in a time of need is naive, this is Africa, the last time somebody came to help was Somalia, they didnt stay long, regardless of the oil and diamonds in the area.
I think its not very forward looking and naive to assume zimbabwe is what it is without the interaction of white economic interests and black poverty in a manner that was like the legendery ostrich and its head buried in sand.Its naive to assume that Mugabes arguements/sentiments are without base.
to ignore massive poverty at the expense of ‘economic stability’ is to create economic instability.This is the tragedy of modern day South africa.It takes time for nations to grow,South africa is still very juvenile.
Black poverty,poor education,unequal economic opportunities,pathetic land policies…these are problems that can not be wished away.not even by the pseudo newly emerged black middle class.Its tragic to assume that the real economy of South africa is the superficial white ‘first world’ one.the real south africa is very poor and ill educated!And that is a time bomb.Any greedy opportunistic politician can exploit such a situation!
I am a South African (proudly) and having lived in the USA over the past 2 years (and having travelled extensively internationally in that period), I have come to realise that South Africa has problems like all other countries, but those problems are not insurmountable. Some people however choose to turn a blind eye to problems they experience in developed countries and always find reasons to say leaving their homes was the best decision ever. At any rate, getting into some of these debates normally turns out to be a fruitless excercise. Even when you bring facts and statistics it normally proves pointless because people use emotions and quote “overal trends” (?!?). All I can say is that South Africans will work a day at a time to redress past legacies and everyone is welcome to help (regardless of race). And yes, I am returning home in 2008.
Partially ill-considered I’d suggest and devoid of fact.
1. The SA economy is not ‘unbelievably robust’ - of course ‘unbelievable’ depends on what you believe so I dont quite know what you are saying. The SA economy is held together by the twin towers of personal debt and a house price bubble. If the bubble bursts there will be carnage.
2. Truely the only thing that keeps SA from going the way of SA is a robust tax collection mechanism. Mugabe cant collect taxes. The SA government can. If a major recession hits SA can ride it. But with a recession comes crazy economic, knee jerk policies. It is very easy to enter into a downward spiral.
Jonty, I will never leave SA. Since childhood I have told anyone who cares that if it ever comes to that, I will be the last person to switch of the lights (metaphorically speaking only - probably only after you :)). I strongly believe in this country and her people. Yet, I accept and respect the people that have left or want to leave for whatever reason. My brother was one, and my sister and her husband is soon to leave. But they know I wont leave. I accept and respect their decisions, as they do mine. I have no inherent need for them to justify it to me.
Having said this, I must agree with others that SA is so diverse that anyone can use any facts or statistics to substantiate whatever position they take, be it positive or negative. Why are people concerned with a Zuma presidency? Because prez Mbeki, who I admire, centralised power too much in the presidency to fulfil his noble aims of improved service delivery and other noble goals. But in the process have created a possible incentive / moral hazard for whoever may follow him, e.g. the power to appoint metro mayors, provincial premiers, use the state agencies to achieve political ends, indirectly encouraged empowerment to people with political connections, etc. In an effort to improve service delivery, he (with whom ultimate responsibility of his governments efforts reside) effectively removed decision making power and responsibility further away from the people and concentrated empowerment among the politically connected. I honestly believe that if there is one thing he does before he leaves office, is to restore this imbalance in order to protect democracy and the true aims of empowerment. Mr President: believe in South Afica’s people and its next generation. Believe that we can and will do the right things and make the right decisions. We may bang our heads and make mistakes, but that is part of the learning process. If we dont, will we ever really grow up (as a mature democracy)? In effect Mr President, we will have to learn to survive without you, give us the opportunity to learn how
Jonty, you say we have a robust constitution (for clarification, parliament is busy debating / assessing the 13th amendment to the constitution, so there has been changes to it). The US also has a robust constitution (and a very competent legal and representative system) yet it did not protect them from going to war on spurious charges, did not protect them from abuses by the highest office, did not protect them from spending the monies of future US generations that will now have to bear the responsibility of paying it back (similar to what the Nats did in SA between 1990 and 1994), and so forth. I am not saying we will go the same route, but please dont be blinded by your faith in the constitution. As you rightly highlight in your last comment, it is a living document that can change (slowly and in secret as in the US, or fast and open as in Zim). We have tried to cover every possible eventuality through establishing specific processes in order to allow deep thought and discussion so that we do make the right “rational” decisions, but there will always be loopholes and changes. As you say, who knows what will be the tastes and preferences of society in 50 years time.
I disagree with the West’s approach to the Zim issue, and support SA’s effort to find a solution through dialogue by Zimbabweans themselves. But I am sure SA invented the term “Quiet diplomacy”. I mean, before that it was simply “Diplomacy” - meaning dialogue. Why “quiet” - why all the secrecy? Are we afraid of the media and its “western” biased reporting? Or are we afraid of telling the “truth”, whatever that is? Are we afraid of having an “informed” citizenry about our success/failure? Or are we afraid of failing and possible stigma it entails - I mean, to date, no SA negotiation on the continent has “officially” failed yet, has it? - though Ivory Coast and Burundi is slipping? In diplomacy, if there is a breakdown in dialogue, then inform the world and put pressure on all parties concerned to return to dialogue. That is what happened in SA when our talks appeared to fail (remember Codesa 1 and 2?). But in “Quiet diplomacy” what is the pressure? Why should any of the parties return to talks if all of them are able to spread rumours and lies mixed with truth and thereby destroying any trust that dialogue creates? To be honest, I dont trust any party anymore, even the SA govt or media to honestly report what is happening in Zim. That is one of my many gripes with “quiet” diplomacy.
but in the end, I dont think or believe “SA will be like Zim”. Botswana, Angolo, Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania, Zambia, even the DRC is improving - why are we so fixated on Zim? I mean the general situations in Angola and Mozambique is still far worse than in Zim, yet our media don’t report on that - why not? We hardly hear anything about Namibia except when some minister or other said the dreadful word “expropriation” about a year or two ago - are they growing/developing faster/slower/parallel to us? (I read recently that even the old war horse, Sam Njumo, is finally retiring from politics (probably to his palace outside Windhoek)). Why are we so fixated on a country that is failing with which we share only, what 500km of boundary, that we dont see the many other successes or stable countries, with which we share over 3000km of boundary?
Interesting debate. I can tell from the time taken to put these views down that people on both sides of this debate either don’t have jobs or they feel extremely strongly about his issue and I am guessing the latter.
I think the real test here would be to see if we have ended up with a free and fair constitutionally reflective society here as opposed to that which Zimbabwe has ended up with. One in which particularly race is no longer an issue and one in which open debate is both encouraged and allowed.
In the last few years the ANC has made a play for and achieved media control, clamped information on its embarassing failure to control crime, implemented a policy of racial social engineering in BEE that boggles international investors in its charity-without-value approach (and places no end point on the table - this is a debate all of its own) and tried to pass legislation to reform the judiciary to its liking. It interferes in business, sport and smears its opposition (the recent attempt to align Helen Zille with the drug underworld in Cape Town was transparently malicious in the extreme).
So where does this leave us? Well in limbo I guess. Perhaps the situation here can best be described by two opposing forces of great magnitude pushing against eachother. On the one hand there are the positives outlined by Jonty and others which are great and keep people like me positive and enthusiastic and rooted firmly in SA.
On the other we have the negatives equally as valid and real, eloquently put forward by other contributors here today. At present these two forces seem to roughly balance out and hence we have relative day-to-day stability in our country. If one side should start to dominate however, the magnitude of the forces suggests a rapid slide or a meteoric rise gathering momentum as it goes. My concern is that our ruling party contributes far too much to the negative forces keeping our meteoric rise at bay. If the darker forces of crime, HIV, corruption, labour unrest, poor education, shocking healthcare and their buddies begin to dominate, the slide could be severe and rapid and in that sense alone, the parallel with Zimbabwe is not mythical.
That said, I agree that it is probably not imminent, it is not a given and it certainly is a very different situation with very different variables. It is also, however, foolish to ignore the signs and wave Chamberlain’s ‘peace in our time’ paperwork. As Mr Magazi says above, a poorly educated populace is a dangerous tool for the right person at the right time, ask Bob.
I am a proud Zimbabwean, quite ashamed at how everyone seems to be talking of “the Zim Issue” it sounds like some dreadful disease! Its also amusing because everyone seems to be viewing the issue from one angle in the terraces and only speculating on what it means or should happen. Being on the ground, bearing the brunt of shortages of all sorts, I can speak with a great degree of authority as to what really matters! You can have brilliant constitutions, spend billions sending delegations on expos, workshops and the like but if nothing is done on the ground to improve the lot of the people at grassroots, then SA will go down the same path as all countries sharing a colonial legacy have! “Ivory Tower” arguements seen in this column are self serving for people with selfish interests . To all South Africans, take the humble stance taken by your government and pick up lessons from our experience, this arrogant jibe in most of SA press will lead you to a REAL mess, its only a matter of time. In Shona we have a proverb which translates to : “Only laugh at a cripple when you are dead!”
Well done Jonty!
Not to say that I am in 100% agreement with you, but largely, your attitude is refreshing. I believe in SA too, and there are things that will allow us to continue our economic miracle, and develop our new democracy.
a) a strong opposition. The DA is not large in numbers, but they grow. They also punch above their weight in holding the government accountable, and offer citizens a real alternative government (see CT as a working example). Sure, most South Africans will have difficulty electing a government containing somw white politicians right now, but as voters become more mature, policy will increasingly become the basis of votes, rather than the president’s colour.
b) a free press. Sure, we don’t have tabloids like the UK, nor would we want that I think. However SA is lucky to have a lot of independant media, and journalists who are skilled, and couragous in seraching out truth from spin. Uncomfortable for politicians, but again, accountability is the key. It’s very hard to sweep stuff under the carpet in SA, despiter efforts by some to acheive this. Good examples here, are Manto’s continued protection, and the good commissioner of police.
c) Ordinary South Africans are decent, in nature. Examples are Mr Pikoli, and ex deputy health minister. There are many hundreds of thousands of people in this country, who are aiming at the moral high ground, and want the right result…….regardless of the peril they often face when speaking out. They provide inspiration to the rest of us, and also serve as a warning to politicians who wish to subvert opposition to their policies.
d) The growth of the ‘black’ (hate to use racially discriptive terms) middle class, means that a large amount of South Africans now share a vested interest in the success of our nation. This means that colour no longer divides us, rather, the colour of money unites us. We all want success for our kids, and ourselves.
In short, there are many good signs for South Africa, and people power is still alive. With peple such as Jonty leading the charge, the doom sayers, will hopefully have to eat their words 10 years from now, when the Zimbabwe chickens still haven’t rocked up to roost. This is for the doom sayers sake as well as those in the positive camp.
Well believe you me, I remember saying Zimbabwe would never go the way of Zambia in the eighties. I was right, it ended up even worse than Zambia economically. South Africa has a complex economy that will take much longer to ruin than Zimbabwe or Zambia. Therefore, it would be very naive to think that there is no way this could happen in SA with the big economic gulf you have between the rich and the poor.In addition to this, the quality of leadership seems to decline every five years. Remember, we are on a continent that has seen some of the most spectacular economic declines in history. Do not be surprised if SA somehow finds herself on the wrong side of history. You can have all the laws and regulations for good governance set in place, but if there is no political will to follow them then they are useless. Mugabe ignored somany laws within the constitution that it became nothing but a piece of paper. The opposition in SA is so weak that Thabo Mbeki is able to use state organs like the NIA and the scorpions to fight his political battles. No one seems to be able to hold him accountable, all they can do is go to the media and voice their concerns. He presides over the most ridiculous aids campaigns and comes up with questionable foreign policies (Zimbabwe). What is to stop the next president from creating even worse policies that take south africa in the wrong direction. Remember, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a few steps. Thabo has already taken those few steps in the wrong direction.
You are right, SA will not head the same way as Zim. The Zimbabwean economy was a one-trick pony dependent on agricultural exports. It was headed for trouble eventually. Look at New Zealand - it is dependent on dairy and livestock exports and the economy is really bogged down: interest rates are heading for 10%.
Let’s not forget that South Africa’s record years of GDP growth have coincided with the great resources boom in human history. The price of commodities has risen exponentially since 2000. GDP growth is still not fast enough to redress economic imbalances and an unemployment rate that exceeds 25%, and 50% of the population below the poverty line.
Obvious problems: huge skills shortage due to emigration, the inability of the Reserve bank to get infaltion under control through monetary policy, crime as mentioned, current account defifit that is growing, exports dependent on commodities, export growth dependent on increasing commodity prices, real estate bubble.
Overall this high level of GDP growth has not been translated into a meaningful increase in jobs. A slowdown in the growth of exports and retail growth without the Reserve Bank being able to get inflation under control could lead to the hell of stagflation.
South Africa has to tackle crime or the skills shortage will have a crippling effect on productivity and growth.
SA also needs to focus on infrastructure to ensure that growth is inclusive and it isn’t just white businessmen and their BEE mates who make all the loot. The electrical infrastructure is also a major hinderance to growth. Not to mention collective bargaining that is out of control.
As long as the “pan-Africanists” stay out of power in the continent and South Africa kills crime it should be golden.
These are just my random thoughts. You are right overall, but that doesn’t mean SA won’t go through some major economic hardships on its path to being the first developed country in Africa. It is certainly not going down the tubes. And, again, don’t underestimate crime as the key thorn in the side of the economy!
Having been “Overseas”for the best part of 9 years, I find all this argument of coming and going from SA a little amusing to be honest. Most of the South Africans living in London are here specifically with the intention of making money, myself included. Make no mistake, I miss nothing more than an ‘evening surf’, or a pizza on the beach at Camps Bay than the next guy, but, when the opportunity arises to make £40 per hour, for running a nightclub in central London, why on earth would I even consider living in SA again? The financial benefits of living in the UK are amazing, you can easily pay off a SA mortgage in 5 years, all in. Not all white people “ran away”, contrary to popular belief. Why cant we all just get on? Black and white must finally unite…
You are now classed as a “visitor” and sadly seem to have no gratitude for the places that offered you refuge. Guess once Gordon and the tubes get to you, you’ll move on and bash the mud island as well.
Crikey you must the life and soul of a team building session!
It is sad that this will not reach the millions of people that need to understand it. The people who need to comment on it will probably not.
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity”-W.B. Yeats
I am not saying that some of the articles are wrong but there seems to be a sense of trying to justify one’s means, ether to leave SA or not to contribute in nation building.
Nelson Mandela’s reconciliation politics’ are over and we here to build a country with President Mbeki. Don’t find fault in methods and compare it to a failed system(Zimbabwe).
Allan B I do not like to make personal comments but I am passionate about what I am about to write and the political debate although endless has been covered in some detail. I don’t think we want you back in South Africa to reap the rewards as you mentioned:
“I sincerely hope that you are correct, and that “alles sal reg kom”, and if that wonderful day should occur, I along with the several millions of Saffas who have left and are still leaving, will be back to rejoin and help rebuild the rainbow dream.”
Do you intend to ‘help’ rebuild a nation, that has already been rebuilt? Probably a reason why none of your businesses ever worked out in South Africa as you are a person who clearly expects a free ride?
I apologise for my directness but I get irritated with people who ironically say BEE is wrong but are more than happy to arrive back in SA when its over and expect everyone to welcome them back with open arms and say ‘come get a piece of the pie I worked hard at getting when the nation was still ‘rebuilding’. ‘
On second thoughts we would welcome you back because the people who stayed behind are the kind of people, who know past wrongs need to be made right (BEE, land redistribution, access to electricity, etc.) for us to move forward, and realise this does not happen easily and without a buy in from all the people in this wonderful country.
I have no problem with people moving overseas, I myself have spent many years outside the country, but it was based on career opportunities with companies based overseas I had aspired to work for and not on dumbfounded logic the country is going the way of Zimbabwe. I am back now and loving it more than I ever have. And I work hard to make a good life for myself, and do not blame the fact that I am white if I don’t do well. Any business arena one operates in there is predjudice (and it not only racial), overseas I exprienced many of them. So there is a business place environment, and you can choose to handle it or you can blame it. Success comes by handling it not blaming it, as you clearly do.
So I have genuine symphathy for you, and hope you can stop blaming external factors and get on and do the things that make you happy and successful.
I do hope to see you back here ‘rebuilding’ the nation with us one day. As I truly believe we have a great country and by the virtue of being born here you are born into this greatness.
Michael C,
You have hit the nail on the head, which is more than I can say for a number of the previous posts. It’s pretty sad the perception exists that any ‘Saffa’ plying their trade abroad are immediately ‘doom wishers’ or negative about SA’s future. That they’re ‘running away’ from the country of their birth..In my opinion it’s quite to the contrary - well if I take the general opinion of the many friends I have here in the UK.
Of course there are the issues of crime and BEE, coupled with the power of the Pound, that amplify the attraction magnate when drawing people away from South Africa onto Mud Island.
It goes without saying that Black Economic Empowerment is a necessary tool in fast tracking the previously dissadvantaged into a realistic proportionate of the economy - however, that said, it’s going to be an incredibly difficult task to end or put an end date to this process as the ‘Black before White’ mindset is already thick set in many emplyers minds.
I, for one, have mixed emotions when thinking about the future of the wonderful country that is South Africa. It saddens me to think of the corruption and brutal recurring crime that I, and my family, have experienced first hand (only last week being the latest occurance). There is absolutely no reason on earth why citizens of a ‘free and democtratic society’ have to live constantly watching their backs, or thinking do I open the gate now or when I’m closer. Don’t drive right up to the gate otherwise you can’t get away in an emergency. Oh, it’s dark and I’m the only car stopped at the robot, I better just slow down and drive through it.
I understand that the SAP have their hands full. I understand that the wheels are in motion for a better and brighter Rainbow Nation. I understand the motives of BEE are good and necessary. I understand that we have a constitution that is set in stone, as was the Bible 1000 years ago.
But, for all those assuming I have deserted or run away - understand that I have chosen not to become a statistic of Black Economic Empowerment. I have chosen to reside in a city where I am not at a 62% (Jhb) risk of becoming a victim of crime. I have chosen to live in a country that is very far from perfect, that has it’s own numerous social issues, but allows me to move freely while earning a considerable amount more that I would back ‘home’.
And no, I haven’t given up on South Africa. I still own numerous properties in and around Jhb and Durban and have no intention of giving them up for the fear of the downward spiral.
Richard B: go ahead, get as personal as you want it does not bother me.
However, you obviously have not read my posts properly. If you had you would realise that I am the type of person who has never asked for nor got anything for nothing. I have never had a free ride.
I started out life with a poor education and got a job at the bottom of the ladder, and clawed my way up to the top, until eventually I built my own very successful businesses, employing many people including a number of black people - there was no discrimination in my businesses.
My businesses and family also supported all sorts of community based initiatives - see my previous posts.
But then BEE came along and insisted that for me to remain successful in business, I had to effectively give half of my hard earned business away. That was one of the last straws. The others were the crime and corruption, and then when my children in their schools became targets, it was definitely time to leave.
Sorry Richard B, I am exactly the kind of person the SA needs - an entrepreneur who gives back to society. But when society demands that I give whilst severely impeding the means to do so, punishes me for being successful, and then tries to kill my children and steal my worldly possessions, that is the time to say enough!
The same sort of things happened in Zim, which is what this discussion is all about. The new leadership got greedy, and the same has happened in SA.
I am a pragmatist, so if and when SA gets its act together I will consider returning, but business is so easy in the UK that it will be a difficult decision. I will not come back to reap the rewards, but I will come back to help build a strong and prosperous nation - once all of the artificially created hindrances have been removed.
And unlike Jonty, I am not too big to appreciate your sympathy, and I do accept that external factors have influenced my decisions, but I will not stay in a society so at odds with itself, and so determined to follow the lead of Zim – consciously or not.
I feel the last line in one of your posts you some it up best: “I am afraid.”
In a nutshell, you are seeing the world as a dangerous and scary place, and that is exactly what it is becoming for you.
You will probably write that off as new-age nonsense, but I believe that you have the choice to either live in fear or in love, and you have clearly chosen fear. Sadly for you, once you have made that choice, and it is within you, you cannot run from it, it will follow you from Zimbabwe to South Africa, to the UK and wherever next you run to.
For me, I am trying to expell the fear from my consciousness. I LOVE South Africa, I LOVE being a South African and I LOVE living here!
I am giving as much LOVE as I can back to this beautiful place and am striving to create a positive environment for myself, those close to me and the country as a whole.
I am building a positive business that is both socially and environmentally conscious and I am striving to create as many jobs as possible as I know that poverty and desperation is a major cause of crime here.
I truly believe that you play a big part in creating your own reality: See the world as dangerous and scary and that is what it will be for you; see the world as a place of opportunity and a place to share love, and so be it.
Good luck on your search for peace, but remember, you can run, but you can’t hide if the fear is inside.
I give thanks and praises for every beautiful day I spend in this crazy, inspiring, stimulating, chaotic, challenging country I love to call home.
Um, that sounded a little bit ‘high on the intoxicating fumes of life’ for my liking, Tony B (and Brett A for that matter). A bullet is made of lead. It will hit you if fired at you regardless of your positive or negative attitude. A happy smile and jaunty jig will not stop the guy high on tik from pulling the trigger, not so?
I am not saying one should not be positive but what is this idiotic South African trait that endevours to ‘happy’ away all the bad stuff and constantly forgive the unforgiveable due to poor moral judgements made by a handful of our parents 50 years ago?
Be positive in your own life and look for the positive spins on your own experiences but when the STATISTICS say we have a problem, then demand change from those who rule. It is not for you to judge reasons that other people have for leaving or staying.
Leaving SA is a very personal choice. My brother has left, I am here. I know plenty of people who wait until they have had a bullet pulled out of them before they pack it in and others that don’t wait that long.
Last word on fear…fear is a built-in tool for survival in the wild. Animals born without it better be domesticated or they don’t last long. It is an early warning system of coming danger and leads to flight before the danger arrives. As humans we flirt with this impulse but it is there to be heeded for your very survival.
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Any person who thinks centuries of systematic oppression can be fixed in 13 years is delusional, and any white person who thinks they didn’t benefit from Apartheid is lying to themselves. If you are white and don’t live in a township then you have benefited from Apartheid.
I wasn’t old enough to vote during Apartheid and I used to tell myself that this absolved me. However the simple truth is that my parents got education and jobs because they were white, and so they could afford the same for me. This doesn’t make me complicit, but it does mean that I show some respect to those in the country who are still struggling and didn’t run is all into the sea in 1994.
White people who whine about crime should realise that they don’t belong in this country in the first place and should act with the humility of a visitor in someone else’s home who has already broken the furniture.
Fair enough Grant, or should I say fear enough…
Many valid points in there.
I am under no illusions that there is not a chronic problem in this country that needs to be addressed.
The point I was trying to get across is that living in fear and distrust of your compatriots because there are some who are out to get you is only going to compound the problems we face.
Yes, there is a criminal element here that is higher than in most other places, but I think if you still look at the country as a whole you will find that by far the majority of us are decent people who are trying to make the most of what we have.
Living in fear creates an “us and them” mentality. One that results in blame and accusations and predujice.
Yes, animals have built-in fear as a tool, but those that belong to a herd and rely on each other for survival also need to trust each other implicitly.
I believe humans (especially South Africans) are in this together now. we cannot hold onto tribalism or racial divides and the sooner we realise that we are all one, the better.
The statistics say we have a problem, but to quote a great man, Mahatma Ghandi, instead of demanding change, “Be the change you want to see in the world.” This is what I am trying to do.
Who knows, I could be shot by a tik-addict on the way home, or eaten by a shark on my next surf, or blown up by a terrorist on the london tube, or killed bt a tsunami on holiday in Thailand, or, or, or…
Damn, there are many terrible ways to go, and life is short, so while I am here I am going to live in a way that makes me feel good and avoid living in a way that makes me feel bad. Fear makes me feel bad.
this is not to say I am not aware of danger and walking about idiotically “happying away” any threat, just that besides a necessary vigilance that up to now has kept me alive and relatively safe, I endeavour to not lose my faith in humanity and especially not in this country.
If you find anywhere on this planet that is risk free and totally safe, let me know.
Until then I am going to make the most of the place I am in, and if I am unlucky enough that that tik-addict/shark/terrorist/tsunami catches up with me before my life has reached full circle (whenever that is supposed to be), at least I can say I did my positive best to make change for the better.
Damn, gotta love those intoxicating fumes of life…
What about white people that think, research and eloquently state good reasons why crime and the way the government approaches its solution is unacceptably poor? Do we not belong here either?
Are you saying that only those that are happy with the crazy crime levels and who say nothing about that crime are the good citizens welcome in ‘your’ country? That sounds like the kind of brainwashed arguement made by individuals I would rather have gone than present.
Do you realise that all you have done is to take up the spin-mantra thrown out by ANC politicians under fire for poor performance? When they have no response to uncomfortable questions from the opposition regarding this question that is the line they resort to…’if you whites don’t like it leave, you whingers’. Come Vincent, stand up, look around you, read and make up your own line and repeat that instead. Get over the guilt already.
Speaking of guilt, I am also fairly sick of the arguement that there is a legacy of hundreds of years to address here. It is an arguement that has no end, no happy ending and no logical place in a modern world going forward.
Lets take a scale and on one side put apartheid, colonial oppression and racism. On the other side lets put roads, schools, electricity, telecommunications, trade skills, mining, written language, television, radio, motorised transport, law, industry, sustainable farming and…you get the idea. Mix it all together, throw in pain and killing on both sides and see where it levels out.
Can we now stop this childish BS about the nasty white man that came and oppressed the poor peace-loving black people (who were killing eachother for control of this land just as we killed them!)and left them with nothing? Thats how deals were done 400 years ago REGARDLESS of your race and from one end of the planet to the other. The English, the Turks, Shaka Zulu, Mzilikazi…all did it! So why are we the only losers in the world harping on about how bad it was and how we must pay for it now? The rest of the world got on with things and are leaving us behind at a rapid rate.
This is my home, I am no visitor here and if I choose to break the furniture in my own home I bloody well will.
Point taken, although I still think a little more reality and a touch less ‘fuzzy wuzzy’ might get us on track quicker. I also like your herd analogy, it explains very nicely why people sometimes panic and leave even when they have not had bad experiences themselves but rather feed of the fear of others who have.
By the way, did anyone call Ghandi a whinger when he saw things that were not just or right around him and demanded change? Or Mandela for that matter? Why is it only white people on the topic of crime that justify that label? Just a thought…
Jonty, apologies, I think we have wandered far from the Zim topic.
I am not suggesting that crime etc is not out of hand, what I am saying is that at the root of the crime level is economic disparity caused by Apartheid and colonial rule. You don’t clean a mess like that up in a decade and putting that sort of expectation on the government is unrealistic.
You cannot simply wipe out all of that history and say it doesn’t apply anymore when its plain to see that the effects are going to take a long time to rectify. Sorry if this perspective offends your sensibilities, but I stand by it.
Fair enough Vincent, I take your points and agree in principle that we have a mess to fix…but wallowing in our guilt is not going to help and I perceive that a good deal of social engineering in reverse will not so much clear up the mess as create a new mess.
I disagree, however, with the comment about not placing expectation on government to address crime. It comes from the same deep-rooted paternal guilt that drives the ropey old reparations arguement.
“We must vote DA otherwise South Africa will be like Zimbabwe”.
I’ve heard that simple-minded equation a thousand times before, and it never ceases to enfuriate me.
I am highly critical of many aspects of South Africa, including the other side of the coin, mindless Afro-optimism (see my blog), but South Africa is not going the way of Zimbabwe.
The most important reason is that we have an industrial base and an organised working class.
Reading the comments, all I see is passion for the country, some are leaving some are staying and although their are mixed views there is love for the country.
I might be over the seas and far away but I miss it more than I ever thought possible.
Sometimes you have to realise everything has its positives and negatives and no one here can predict the future, as much as Jonty and Allan are giving two well thought out and contrasting opinions, neither can prove what 15 years down the line will hold.
If you love the country then stay - if you want to whine leave. Its a simple choice to be made.
I am an optimist: furthermore as an englishman, I would wish nothing but the best for South Africa and her european and other constituent races….
But we have to face up to the big picture: it is not just “going the way of Zimbabwe”
It is a continent-wide, 50 year pattern, that is A~Z, : Algeria to Zimbabwe. In between: Angola, Benin, Belgian Congo,Camaroon, Chad, Central African Republic, Darfur, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Ghana, Gambia,Gabon,Kenya, Liberia,Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Namibia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia: and that is not the complete list. For so many of these countries, post colonial times, similar expressions of optimism to that put forward by Jonty Fisher have been forthcoming for these countries too. Also, many leaders of these countries have said the right things, and attempted to implement the right things, but every time the train has gone off the rails. To different degrees these countries have enjoyed political support from the west, and financial aid, they have had natural resources, and local skills: but typically ethnic strife, ideological experimentation, “brain drain”, decadence and corruption, and the AK47 have brought everything to total and irredeemable ruin.
South Africa enjoys a wonderful resource in the inventiveness and self reliance of its people, but even the low labour costs cannot compete with China: witness the low-cost chinese goods on street-sale in Zimbabwe.
I would like to believe there is something sufficiently different about South Africa to these other potentially wonderful varied countries of the continent, such that it could buck the 50 year trend.
Suggestions have been the Constitution, the industrial base, the organised working class. Perhaps also the end of “communist” “sponsorship”. But that’s not much hope to set against a continent’s worth, and half a century’s worth of experience.
My heart’s with hope, but my wager would be with experience…
I think this sums up the feeling of any white south African who has left, for whatever reason.
Homeland
Within my soul, within my mind,
There lies a place I cannot find.
Home of my heart. Land of my birth.
Smoke-coloured stone and flame-coloured earth.
Electric skies. Shivering heat.
Blood-red clay beneath my feet.
At night when I am all alone,
I close my eyes - and I am home.
I kneel and touch the blood-warm sand,
And feel the pulse beneath my hand
Of an ancient life too old to name,
In an ancient land too wild to tame.
How can I show you what I feel?
How can I make this essence real?
I search for words in dumb frustration
To try and form some explanation,
But how can heart and soul be caught
In one-dimensional written thought?
If love and longing are a “fire”
And man “consumed” by his desire,
Then this love is no simple flame
That mortal thought can hold or tame.
As deep within the earth’s own core
The love of home burns evermore.
’But what is home?’ I hear them say,
’This never was yours anyway’.
’You have no birthright to this place’,
’Descendant from another race’.
’An immigrant? A pioneer? ‘
’You are no longer welcome here’.
Whoever said that love made sense?
“I love” is an “imperfect” tense.
To love in vain has been man’s fate
From history to present date.
I have no grounds for dispensation,
I know I have no home or nation.
For just one moment in the night
I am complete, my soul takes flight.
For just one moment…. then it’s gone
and I am once again undone.
Never complete. Never whole.
White Skin and an African soul.
The “apartheid did it” arguement is only going to cut it for so long. We must learn from the past, in order to never allow these things to happen again, however blaming apartheid/colonialism for everything that in’t working, is wearing thin for most South Africans. People aren’t stupid as a general rule. We have to remember the past, and look to the future, in order to have a future.
I also will break the furniture in my own home if I like. I am no visitor in my own house. Politicians always divide to rule, and springbok quota’s etc reinforce some peoples perceptions that some are more South African than others. Any race based assessments of a person’s ‘South African ness’ are invalid as I see it. Imagine the French soccer team requiring a proportionate number of indigeounous Frenchmen….
Do you have to have a point to point comparison with Zimbabwe in order to be able to think its going the same way? I don’t think so. There are some good points you raise on why you think it won’t go the same way, but what about:
The judicial system is an absolute joke, the health system even worse, the SABC, the correctional services, the police services all not even a laughing matter anymore, the decline of all these things contributes to peoples feelings of going the way of Zim (rightly or wrongly).
Rohan: “Imagine the French soccer team requiring a proportionate number of indigeounous Frenchmen….”
They certainly would if Shaka had invaded France three hundred years ago, put all the French into little villages with no education, electricity or rights and kept them there while exporting all the natural resources.
So long as we have a new president every 10 years with the out going one retiring from politics then we have hope. Like every other contry on this planet. Is the USA becoming an empire? That should worry us just as much as WWIII unfolds.
Grammar is not optional on October 11th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Apartheid did it… Yes it did !
It excentuated a divide that exists NATURALLY between races all over the world.
It created homelands, most of which are now the most beautiful parts of our country due to the non-development.
It created the platform for South Africa to take the world centre stage and show the rest of the world what incredible people South African’s are in their ability to FORGET the past and live in ’semi’ peaceful unity.
It created the demise of the AWB.
It changed the name of black board.
It saw the demise of the Golly Wog.
And most importantly - it created Madiba !!!
oh - dose anyone know what we now call those little colourful sweets we used to eat that changed colour the more you suck them ?
While there are some very salient points made here, my only question is is who are “they” who are not going to “allow” South Africa to flounder?
The “they” who did nothing to stop the genocide in Rwanda? The European press who have consistently reported on the horror that is Darfur, but whose governments have been unable to stop the rape and slaughter?
The only examples I can think of where vested interests have “not allowed” certain things to happen is in Kuwait and Iraq, which the Americans invaded in the interests of oil (oops, I mean democracy and human rights.) And look how that worked out…
Let’s forget about the romantic idea of the internationals community doing anything for anyone (particularly not anyone on the African continent)and take it upon ourselves to defend democracy and our constitution instead of imagining someone else will do it for us.
Zimababwe is in the terrible position it is because we (I am a Zimbabwean living in SA) became complacent about our democracy and placed too much faith in “the party of liberation”. Learn from our experiences so that they will not have to be repeated here!
I must admit, whenever I get exposed to these debates I find them fascinating beyond belief.
Is SA going the way of Zimbabwe? - Who knows? There might be parallels between SA today and Zim 20 years ago; but is it a forgone conclusion? I believe Jonty’s point is that it is not. SA (even) with the similarities to Zim is in my opinion far different. The future is however uncertain, so rather than being the prophets of doom, should we not be trying to ensure that we do not go down Zim’s path.
Is BEE ruining the economy? Let us ask the question in a different way, what should be done economically to redress the wrongs of the past? People WILL complain that things have changed. We have moved away from a system where a group of people were actively excluded from participating in the economy for decades. If no catalyst was introduced into the system, how long would it take for the situation to correct itself? Is the solution perfect? No. Is it fair? Maybe not. But the same people who are b*tching about the unfairness of it today are the very same individuals who benefited from the unfairness of the past. My heart bleeds.
I was not privy to dinner conversations 20 years ago (we were not allowed to mix, you know); but I’m pretty sure that no one was complaining that they were benefiting from an unfair system of government. No one was leaving the country because they were sick of what the then gov. was doing to its people. I might be wrong though.
BEE has been from the start labelled as a short term solution to build a sustainable black middle class which will help grow this economy. The government has been clear on this and communicated the timelines and target accordingly. If an entire nation can live with apartheid for so long, surely they can live with BEE for a decade?
This country is far from perfect and there’s still much that can be improved; let us however remember where we come from. Lets us also remember that it has only been 13 years.
Mphehliwayo the 1st on October 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Mphehliwayo, I enjoyed your well-made points especially your synopsis of the Zim vs SA parallel. The jury is indeed out and there are both worrying and encouraging factors so lets ‘work’ to make sure that we take the high road (that work may mean whinging when we see our elected leaders doing something we don’t agree with)
A concern of mine, however, has been the social engineering aspect of BEE and the lasting effect it will have on all of us living here. At present we have a system that is prejudicial, racist and debilitating for a lot of white people here that are not perhaps all as rich as black people seem to think we are. We know the reasons for BEE and I think in general, people have accepted that it is a necessary evil to get to and end. That is the WHAT. I would like to know WHEN that end is? To my knowledge there has been no end-point decided upon, no date and no measurable target. Arbitrary statements such as ‘when the wealth is demographically spread’is as close as it gets.
So my question is, how long do white males like myself have to hold our breath and pass the time as second class citizens in our own country? 46 years to match apartheid? If its ten or 15 years, then fine, if its my entire lifetime and that of my children, all the bosses are black and we have racial discrimination entrenched against white people wouldn’t you also leave? Many black people did and went into exile when they were second class citizens. Why should we be different? I think it is a question that needs answering. Eye for an eye won’t get us anywhere here, no matter how satisfying the prospect may be to many.
Thanks for the fantastic article Jonty, I really hope that you can infect other journalists with your informed optimism, instead of the usual doom and gloom that populates the majority of the SA’s media. I completely agree with your point of view regarding the Zim/SA debate and sometimes we as the public blindly accept what the media feeds us instead of doing our own homework and discovering what the real truth is (a la “crime expo website” and “2 woman are raped every X amount of seconds in SA”).
I originally wrote a huge response but then I realised I just wanted you to know that their are other south africans out there actively changing peoples perspective for the better one by one.
I have a foreigner count for all the people I meet and eventually convince to visit South Africa, currently that number is at 5 baby yeah!!!!
Jonty you scoundrel. Great work right here. I love how you have managed to weed out the professional moaners out of their hiding holes and wound them up to this level of rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth righteous indignation.
“I run a successful business and until now had a positive outlook…”. Me being me, this type of rationalization of internalized Afro-pessimism always amuses me no end.
You are correct and I agree with you whole heartedly. It cannot and must not last forever.
From an Employment Equity point of view, I know that companies were given 1 – 5 years from the time of 1st submitting their plan. That is, they have up to 5 year to achieve 50/50 representation at all levels at which point they would be deemed to have achieved a the government would stop monitoring them. The assumption is that after that period, the system will manage itself.
BEE is a bit of a grey area. The accepted wisdom is that it’s 10 years. The question is, 10 years from when? The biggest problem is that unlike Employment Equity there seem to be no clear targets to measure success or failure. Otherwise 10 years from now there will be disagreements and debates as to whether we have attained BEE or not, and which sector has or has not succeeded.
Mphehliwayo the 1st on October 11th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Can you believe the bag of emotions I felt while reading through Jonty’s article and all the comments following it.
I felt I had to add my two cents worth. As a 24 year old Xhosa woman who:
owns no property (yet);
has completed her undergraduate degree from the University of Cape Town;
has experienced being unemployed (if only for a relatively short period);
has been working for a year at one of the “Big Four” accounting and consulting firms;
has family “back home” in the Eastern Cape who need financial support;
owns no foreign passport (nor has any desire to leave South Africa);
dreads the next interest rate hike because it means the debt repayments will be a bit more painful to make;
owns no shares in any listed company but;
has no doubt that she will one day soon live in “financial comfort”;
loves living in Jozi with all the opportunity and “new experiences” it offers and yet;
worries about the reality of rape;
celebrates the “New South Africa” but;
does not support all the name changes;
and… and… and…
What I’m trying to say is that for some of us, this is home and we are here to stay. The problems are there but we live in hope that decades into our democracy the people who did the ‘chicken run’ can say that “We were wrong about South Africa” and those that stuck it out can stand proud in the knowledge that they did not run away in fear when things didn’t seem so rosy but instead helped build a great South Africa.
Look, lets set the facts straight. Our constitution may be one that the rest of the world considers progressive, but to even suggest that we have the resources or ability to enforce it is incredibly naive. “Presidential politics” of late have been nothing but a shambles. The Pikoli saga, the issues with the health department, quiet diplomacy, the Zuma conspiracy. If you honestly believe that we are being protected from corruption and mismanagement from senior government, you have been living under a rock. We may not face the possibility of a dictator just yet, but replacing Mbeki the scoundrel with JZ the COSATU and SACP puppet does not mean that we are free of potential tyranny.
With regards to the economic strength of the economy? Well, that is questionable. Debt may have decreased, but our Account Deficit is going to bite us in the arse if not dealt with. In all honesty, a large chunk of growth has been the result of consumers buying on credit. Furthermore, agriculture was the backbone of Zimbabwe. Policies were put into place to enforce a change of ownership in the most profitable industry sector in that country. In South Africa, we are enforcing BEE, which forces a shift in ownership, management and procurement policy in our most profitable industry sectors. Mines, tourism, IT, banks…they all have BEE charters they need to contend with. How is the enforcement of BEE policies any different from the initial land grabs we saw in Zim?
Regarding property rights, already we are starting to see talk of a new bill that is going to classify property owners by race. With BEE, medium sized business is being forced to sell off a percentage of their business to remain competitive. With regards to land claims, we are starting to see the benefit of Affirmative Action policies in Government departments. You have farmers being forced off their land through intimidation. Even though they are willing to sell up, Government red tape has made the process cumbersome. So much so, that the safety of the farmers and their families has become a concern.
With regards to international pressure to ensure South Africa is a success, I have my doubts. Russia and the CIS are more open to trade then they have ever been, and more of the CIS countries are beginning to join the EU. That opens up mineral reserves already. If we have learnt one thing from Africa, its that when it comes to minerals, it does not matter who is in power, your first world countries are going to be active in mining them. If you think the world relies on South African mineral reserves as much as it did pre 1983, you are clutching at straws. If you think the world needs a stable economy in South Africa to mine, you are mistaken. The only time it becomes a problem is when Government nationalizes business, like we have just seen in Zim
Lets look at the bigger picture. You have had aggressive AA policies transform Government and municipal departments. What we have is a crumbling public service sector, highlighted by the financial irregularities reported by the Auditor General. You have a shift in ownership with BEE, which is forcing business to hand over its profits to a few rich black ANC sympathizers who are buying up everything. Unemployment has not dropped since 94, even with the economic boom (which is poor in comparison with other emerging markets over the last 5 years). We have a huge problem with crime, which is not going to be resolved anytime soon. Healthcare is in poor hands, and education standards have declined. Skills are leaving in droves. The economy cant grow without people. The minority is being taxed to hell and back, through direct and indirect taxes as a result of poor service delivery. We have refugees pouring into South Africa, putting a further strain on social services and the fight against crime. HIV is not being handled properly.
People often accuse those who are negative as being the type of person looking to justify their reason to leave or for having left. If people are willing to accept mediocrity and the sham that is our Government simply because its positive or patriotic, then they are doing nothing but contributing to our many problems. South Africa will end up like every other African country for the simple reason that we are being run by Africans. Government is corrupt and incapable of meeting the challenges. South Africa will not see the decline as quickly as Zimbabwe simply because the economy is so big and there are so many skilled people still left here. The cracks are showing, as are the warning signs.
Nandi,
Some great points there. However, there begs the question regarding your statement, “those that stuck it out can stand proud in the knowledge that they did not run away in fear when things didn’t seem so rosy”.
How does one judge the actions of all those ‘Previously Disadvantaged’ individuals who took refuge (Exile) in foreign countries during the apartheid regime, and who are now members of parliament etc. ?
Do we look apon those above mentioned as ‘chicken runners’ or ‘freedom fighters’ ?
Very few, if any, participants to this debate will be swayed by the argument of either side, but I wonder how many of the so called “whingers” could easily be swayed to a positive attitude by an open, receptive government that admitted crime was a problem and was open to constructive criticism, no matter the source?
What Jonty and the likes of Charles Nqkula fail to recognise is that by and large the white people still in the country were not originally pessimists, most of those left 10 to 15 years ago, instead they are stale optimists and reluctant pessimists.
The country is currently facing severe challenges on many fronts, and it is not a foregone conclusion which way it will tilt. I truly believe that this country has massive potential, but as one of the correspondents noted, a reading of African history does not bode well for a positive forecast for South Africa while a self destructing ANC goes around stabbing all and sundry in the back. Every where in life we are ignore the signs at our peril.
Oh, as for apologising for my critisim? Not in a million years. I pay my taxes and I am a good citizen. I have every right to bitch about the state of the nation.
lets rather play a game called ‘democracy, equal rights and discrimination’. You play the game by taking a group of people, say white males or black males and then you apply those tags to them under our current dispensation and you see if they fit or not. I think you will find that white males are not a political influence in our democracy since their vote count is negligible, do not have equal rights regarding employment and company ownership and are therefore discriminated against on the basis of race both directly in the workplace, when tendering on projects or selling to large companies or gov. The others are not. In fact they are at an advantage in every way.
As I said in my little paragraph above, I understand WHY this is the case and in the interests of progress, peace and fairness I am prepared to live with it FOR A WHILE. Not for the whole of my natural life!
If, as you say, white males have, in fact benefitted most since ‘94 which to be honest is a rather nebulous and vague assertion at best, then I would have to say it has been on a more than level playing field and well done to them. Probably, if you look into those statistics you seem to enjoy, you will discover that wholesale displacement in government and corporate due to BEE has forced many white males to start their own businesses to survive. They have obviously done well. Others have been retrenched and have lost their jobs on the basis of skin colour - casualties of war perhaps, but discrimination whichever way you cut the cake.
Would it be a great relief if the good Nation Doctor emerged in his white coat to deliver the news that the patient is, in his professional opinion, not going the way of Zimbabwe?
Or would be a bit like the good Family Doctor confirming that you’re not facing quite the same health issues as the guy in the next bed, the worst guy in the ward, the guy suffering two broken legs, a cracked skull, a collapsed lung, a shattered pelvis and raging infection?
Well thanks, Doc, that’s a relief. But help me out here; tell me something, am I going to make it?
Hard to say, he would say. You’re a particularly rare case. You’ve had several blood transfusions and multiple organ transplants to solve the debilitating condition that was bringing you down. It’s a miracle your body is still functioning at all, let alone performing in any way. You’re lucky to have had such a strong physical makeup and natural resilience in the first place. But then you’re part of a family that’s got a terrible history of disease and self-destructive behaviour. And while you’re a sunny, positive character with plenty of talent and ambition, you’re not quite blessed with a consistent work ethic and you have a tendency to give in to temptation. And then you’re terribly accident prone. In my experience, patients in your circumstances don’t recover. But something tells me you might just prove the exception to the rule.
But will I ever compete again with the best? Is there any hope I will turn out to be a success?
Well, the truth is, you’re a success already. And where you go from here is mostly up to you. I would recommend you to take it day by day. Enjoy the things you’re good at. There’s practically no limit to the achievement of sheer will. But there’s a critical mass of will that’s needed to overcome difficult circumstances. And trust me, I’ve seen this before: the moment you fall below that critical mass, the moment you give up and give in, the spiral downward into darkness is swift and irreversible.
Preacher - brilliantly put. You said everything I said and far more in a succinct nutshell.
Tom Bono - I like your style.
Gareth - you also hit the nail on the head.
Now if only we could convince the others that we all love SA, but that some of us are just more pragmatic than others. For most of us, negativity just does not enter the equation.
Actually, the name calling going on is some of the worst negativity… funny how it always seems to be directed at those unhappy with the current state of affairs…
Its funny how easy it is for some people to look at one side of the coin ! African countries failure to develop after they colonial masters have been defeated. One name comes to my mind, Mark Thatcher (He was funding the mercenaries that were caught in Zimbambwe) how many others haven’t been exposed ?
All those who yearn and long for what was (Living larvishly, whilst millions were being deprived)go ahead emigrate,anyways you seem to respect and understand only those who have the same skin colour as you !
Don’t you think Black people are frustrated as well ? Pain is part of life that we also feel (Murders, Hijacks etc) but through it all, we are still living in the Townships (some still without running water and proper sanitation)but we strive to find a paradise in the poverty that we are still living in.
As for SA going the way of Zimbambwe, I bet that deep down no one who truly loves this country takes that seriously !!!
“Going the way of Zimbabwe” is the extreme low road. Maybe “going the way of Africa” is more apt. I concur that Mr Fisher’s arguments hold value at a certain level, but down on the ground, I have two words - “Hlope” and “Eskom”.
I dont claim to be the worlds most intellectual being.. yet I feel it necessary, after much consideration, to speak my mind.
To this end, there were points in your article, which I picked up via Seth at 2oceans, which I feel compelled to challenge.. I would appreciate your feedback.
You wrote..
“democratic institutions and checks and balances.”. Manto…? so its okay for an alcoholic, clearly incompetant train wreck to be protected and priveledged via this rigorous system of checks and balances…?
“a constitution…not even Thabo Mbeki (with all his paranoia and power politics) has tried to amend .. floor crossing, hiring & firing within the ANC, SABC at whim… thats cool too, I assume.
“a strong and unaltered Constitution with a range of weapons against an overbearing president…” Pikoli / Selebi debacle.. refer above two points..
(Markinor study earlier this year) .. are you kidding me? There is a saying - much - beloved by the Charles Taylors of the world -
“A bullet doesn’t lie.” Tell me this - are you going to be the one to hold up a Markinor study as defence??
I could go on & on. Jonty - I am a below-par public school educated survivalist. I have, through the blessing of my talents, traveled the world to extents way beyond my means. I have held a Permanent Residency to Australia in my hands - even living in Sydney - and chosen to return to this country that I call l home - South Africa. Please answer me this - can you honestly tell me that you hold NO cash reserves overseas? Please.
Secondly - If you do, as you claim, manage all these media concerns - then I feel you are severely misleading your readers if in your opinion you feel that is OK for the editor and Sunday Times journalists to be arrested doing their jobs. Do you even know whats going on in Burma? What about Tianemen Square? Do you even know that the very first thing to be shut down and suffocated in an emerging dictatorship is, and always will be, the media….?????
If not - you are selling your readers very short. Not a good place for a captain of industry to be.
I am open to this debate. No - SA will never be another Zim. But that does NOT mean it is exempt from becoming another African tragedy. One last thing. I have a 4 yr old son. My concern is not for myself, but for his life in 20 year’s time. A lot can change. Think about that.
You need only ask one question. Are things getting better or worse? With the current situation where government officials either have their head in the sand or their hand in the cookie jar, worse is in the forecast. People have become numb to their environment. Crime, corruption and incompetence is accepted on a daily basis. As a transplant to SA from the US, I was shocked at what people considered acceptable behaviour. It’s a beautiful country full of kind, intelligent people. It’s sad to see a paradise spoiled.
[…] ‘South Africa’s going the way of Zimbabwe’I’m consistently amazed — no, make that, concerned — at the amount of seemingly intelligent people who still hold this opinion. It’s easy to write off the usual suspects for comments like this, but when people in their 30s with … […]
The question that has to be asked is worse for whom?
It’s not rosy, that we’re all in agreement with. What must be remembered however is that for some people it is far better then what they’ve had all their lives.
It’s all a matter of perspective. For some, crime has increased tenfold and they can no longer live here. For others, who’ve had until 13 years ago a criminal system that controlled their daily lives, things have improved.
Perspective.
Some people are watching the paradise that they’ve know all their lives being slowly eroded by incompetence, corruption, crime and ignorance. They forget the foundation on which that paradise was built.
Others see the hell that they’ve known all their lives being slowly turned into paradise, they see the incompetence, corruption and crime as the pot holes on the road to their paradise. They also are frustrated; they console themselves with the fact that it’s been only 13 years. Rome after all was not built in one day.
“They forget the foundation on which that paradise was built.”
That was not the point. The point is clear, I think. Is SA heading the same way as Zim? Yes or no. Has got nothing to do with the bases on which SA has become a developed, industrial nation.
I do not believe so. There might be similarities, as others have pointed out, but as I said earlier, I do not think it’s a certainty.
What I am trying to point out however is that nothing exists in isolation. I’m merely trying to point out that this is new to us all and the road will be paved with mistakes.
More specifically, I’m addressing the accession that this country is moving from being a paradise to being the scourge of Africa. The point is, for some THIS is better than what they had before. This may very well be what blinds us to the much touted doom that is approaching.
It was also my way of trying to point out that the comments here are most about beliefs. These are centred on our different perspectives and as such we will not agree. At least not until we realise that what is a curse to you, is a blessing to me.
Mphehliwayo the 1st on October 15th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Mphehliwayo
Again some very good points and the ‘good for whom’ is perhaps one of the best perspective shifters of the entire debate. It gives insight into why many people are happy with the status quo while others complain and are thus seen as whingers when there is clearly ‘nothing to complain about’.
To add constructively to your view, could we not suggest that a certain blindness to the macro-reality then exists in those whose individual lives have improved materially while perhaps the fabric of society in general has slipped a little?
It is hard to bear and understand complaints when things are going your way as evidenced during apartheid. That does not, however, mean that the system responsible for that improvement is necessarily a just and fair system.
Off the topic, I watched the rugby at a venue last night and for the first time in my life I heard no discernable difference in volume between Nkosi and Die Stem - real progress in my book.
Mphehliwayo, even the simple fact that there ARE similarities (however minute, as you claim they are) is alarming. If we are to compare ourselves to Zim and find nothing wrong with that, then we truly are doomed.
You are advocating looking at the issue from a relativistic point of view, which is fine, except that countries and development are judged in absolutes not relatives, and the willingness to invest in SA is a function of absolute reality as opposed to “context.” If I am an investor, I would ask, is SA a safe/secure place to put my money in? If I am an investor, it would not matter to me if the average black South African is feeling safer than he used to be, or if he/she thinks that personal safety is to be sacrificed for the sake of other gains. What I am saying is very simple. Please read this in full before starting to type a reply. Think it over, and you will see that I am right. I posted this on a SA forum, and I will post it here too. SA is doomed to much worse than Zim-ification. It already is very close to competing with Zim (this does not mean we’re saying SA will experience exactly the same things that Zim is experiencing). Just check out the facts yourself. SA has already surpassed Zim in many negative aspects (check out the Mo Ibrahim index). Even I, as a very pessimistic South African expat, was shocked to see some of the detailed score comparison between SA and Zim (check out the post on my blog about that).
Anyway, enough about that, here’s the reply I posted, about the AA policies and its long-term impact on SA:
“AA causes a decline in efficiency and productivity in a society, and is a hurdle to development. What should be done instead is fix the things that need to be fixed, rather than lower the bar and thus cause a decline in skills and productivity. If education is a sector that whites have an advantage in, you don’t tell schools they need to have lower acceptance standards just so that more black kids can be admitted. You don’t tell schools they need to hire black school teachers even though a white teacher would be more qualified for the position. Instead you work on other mechanisms, maybe opening more schools that seek to reach the same educational standards as the supposedly ‘white-dominated’ schools. You would even aspire to hire better-qualified white teachers in these new schools so that these kids would receive a quality education. Instead, what the government is doing, is replacing teachers not based on merit but based on skin color, and in doing so, it is actually going backwards rather than achieving progress. In the long run this will be disastrous (its short-term effects are already alarming). It will put (has already put!) unqualified people in crucial spots, and this would severely threaten the future of the country. It would lower educational standards, and though opportunities might be bigger for blacks in relative terms, the absolute progress would be minute, because the real issue is not black vs white ‘who has better-paying jobs and higher positions’ childish game, the real issue is how far has our society advanced, what have we done to increase knowledge, skills, mechanisms to cope with the challenges that await our country. AA solves none of this. It tells people that they can be lazy as long as the color of their skin is the correct one. Another 10 years down the road, you will come to me and say, Ed Carson, you were right. We should’ve listened to your warnings.”
I have read with interest the article and most especially the comments over the past few days.
I understand these first comments are not directly related to the topic at hand, but in the context of the debate which has ensued since the article being published, I wish to make a few points.
I, like Jonty, am one of those optimist types and am often accused of being blinkered to the rest of the goings on in this country. I still believe, however, that reading the good news, recognising the positive progress where it exists and being generally optimistic about our future will do more for the country than outright negativity masqueraded as realism or pragmatism.
I’ve spent much time, energy and frustration trying to convince South Africans abroad that South Africa is worth being positive about. I have found that by-in-large the South Africans abroad that trash the country at braais, dinner parties and the like do so because of a need to justify their decision to leave South Africa.
We live in (legally) one of the free countries in the world. If someone feels like South Africa is not for them now, or too risky, or the economic interventions affect them too much, or crime is too much to deal or any other valid reasons, they are free to leave South Africa and venture abroad. Indeed, were it not for my business here in South Africa, I am sure I would’ve spent a few years here and there already myself.
Any South African choosing to leave South Africa, either temporarily or through emigration, should not feel they need to justify their decision by convincing themselves, as well as the people around them, that South Africa is a Zimbabwe in the making and that it is indeed a matter of time. Surely you can be a South African living abroad and still be PROUD of where you come from and of the positive progress being made back home. www.southafrica.info,www.sagoodnews.co.za,www.sarocks.co.za and the like will all give these people the information they need to be proud of the advancement everyday in this country.
Then to the not-so-good: we have a young baby of a democracy and a whole lot of growing up lies ahead of us. Right now we’re teething, and it hurts. The sagas around Selebi, Pikoli, Hlope, Manto and the like are all extremely difficult pills for us to swallow but these scandals are not insurmountable. Our media is still free and can (within the limitations of the law) ensure truth is demanded of those in the highest echelons of government. If the Sunday Times broke the law in getting the Health Minister’s Health Records, then, unfortunately, they need to be prosecuted. Nobody should be exempt from the law and the leadership challenge during this time of teething will be for President Mbeki to show us that nobody is immune from investigation and prosecution; not the editor of a national newspaper, not the Chief Justice, not the Minister of Health, not the Commissioner of Police and so on.
As to the topic at hand, both sides of my family tree arrived in South Africa with the 1820 settlers. Both sides then moved to Rhodesia and both sides returned to South Africa by the middle of the 80’s. It was clear to them then, only a few years into democracy, that the effects of the debilitating civil war coupled with the rushed and flawed Lancaster House Agreement which led to the farce that saw Robert Mugabe take power was a recipe for yet another African National Disaster.
No doubt when our time came CODESA, the GNU and indeed our own constitution all took into account the lessons learned in the rest of Africa. CODESA started negotiations in December 1991, the GNU took over national governance in 1994 and only in February 1997 when the constitution was finalized, was power handed directly to the ANC. The process of handing control of the country from the NP to the ANC took nearly five and a half years.
By comparison, Zimbabwe saw hostilities end with the signing of Lancaster House just before Christmas in 1979 and by April 1980 Robert Mugabe and ZANU-PF had control of the country.
Compare 5 months for Zimbabwe and 5 years for South Africa. We did it properly.
South Africa will not go the way of the rest of Africa. Zimbabwe is the quoted example at present because it is in such a shocking state right now. Have no misconceptions that most Africans states have not been where they are now. By-in-large, the rest of Africa have been to the lowest low and are now rebuilding. Zambia, Mozambique, Angola are regional examples. They are building their economies, attracting investors, focusing on agriculture (thanks in no small part to ex-Zimbabwean farmers), building competence as responsible democratic leaders and generally trying to ensure their countries move only forward.
South Africa cannot and will not go the way of the rest of Africa. We have enough examples to learn from, enough education, modernity and intelligence in our leadership and enough goodwill from our neighbours and the rest of the world to ensure we never forget what we’re working toward.
We live a miracle every day in this country, but like most things these days, that miracle is dynamic and changing. In 1994 the miracle was democracy without civil war, through the nineties it was Madiba and his capacity to reconcile and in the new millennium the miracle is the rapid progress and integration we see taking place every day in this country. We’re moving forward. We sing the national anthem like we don’t remember the old one. We get angry when some idiot pulls out the old flag. We have black South Africans in France supporting the Bokke alongside white. We have roads, water, electricity, telephones, clinics, houses and schools where there were never any before – the places white generally don’t go and thus progress whites aren’t seeing.
We have a long, long way to go and a very many challenges to deal with along that road. We will succeed and of that I am absolutely certain. How can I be so certain?
“All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke
The very fact that every single one of us, whether living in South Africa or not, is engaged in this conversation right here is testament to the sheer volume of resource, goodwill and hope behind the desire to see South Africa succeed.
I thank you all for your passion for our wonderful country.
Ed Carson - I thought you were going to make a valuable contribution after the ‘Hear me out in full plea’ and then all you did was rant on about Affirmative Action. AA is just one of many interventions currently in place by the government in an attempt to redress the imbalances introduced by the previous government.
Your speech on AA is fantastic. The problem is that you are wrong. You are not *here* to see the productive contribution being made by black managers, executives, employees in this new South African ecnonomy. People learn; they catch up; they gain experience; they learn about humility. Even 13 years is long enough for that.
Its amazing how we sugarcoat BEE and AA as being nothing more then policies to address imbalances of the past, yet slam the Nats for bringing in a policy that addressed economic imbalances brought upon the Afrikaner by the British invasion. Both are evil for the fact that we have classified people by race, and exclude people of certain ethnicity in an effort to improve the lot of certain groups. Just like we cannot justify Apartheid because of the Boer War and the communism (how absurd that all sounds now eh?) we cannot justify AA and BEE.
One may have been more aggresive in its approach, but the outcome will still be the same. Citizens will continue to feel divided by colour even though we now consider ourselves “democratic and free”. Hell, we can all vote, but we will always be a one party state. People are voting with their feet though, and we will continue to see an exodus of skills and tax money as we continue to marginilise people.
As for the comment that people are looking to justify their reason to leave? That is really starting to wear thin with me. Lets get a few things straight. Firstly, people are not looking for excuses to leave. They are being forced to leave. Either through economic exclusion or fear of safety. Secondly, they no longer feel welcome in their own country. The constant guilt we are forced to endure, often brought about for no reason other then the lack of an alternative excuse for the mediocrity that our Government continues to produce, is starting to take its toll. Whites voted for change in the majority, yet that same majority is wiping the spit of its face almost daily
People need to stop trying to apply European sensibilities to the situations of Africa and Africans. You can try and convince yourself and others that South Africa is protected by a solid constitution. You can also try and convince yourself and others that the problems we face are nothing more then media sensationalism and the perception of a public that refuses to accept change (albeit change they voted for, IN THE MAJORITY I REMIND YOU)
The simple fact remains that South Africa is still a country where race is a deciding factor in economic and social participation. Hate crimes against minority groups and Governments lack of action have further alienated that minority. Throw into the mix the constant threats to our safety, the fact that we are now one of the most heavily taxed people on the planet (direct and indirect taxes from lack of service delivery) AND the fact that we are still having our noses rubbed into a system our Grandfathers voted in?
Why the bloody hell should anyone stick around? People may be leaving out of fear, but there are just as many who remain out of fear too. People dont complain because they are looking to justify their reason to leave. They are complaining because they love this country as dearly as you do, they just hate to see it being run into the ground by a bunch of greedy, self serving incompetents
[…] ‘South Africa’s going the way of Zimbabwe’I’m consistently amazed — no, make that, concerned — at the amount of seemingly intelligent people who still hold this opinion. It’s easy to write off the usual suspects for comments like this, but when people in their 30s with … […]
After living in the UK for 7 years I am returning home at the end of the year. Why? Because I came to realise after extensive travels that there are problems everywhere in the world, no matter where you go. Yes, I agree that the ‘dark continent’ have totally different and much bigger issues than some of the developed nations, but the truth is: SA is the whole world in one country as described by a Guardian Newspaper Journalist. I also think that Saffas are a rather pessimistic bunch and that it is time for all to cheer up and try to make the country work. SA is the one country in Africa where things can work. And once it does work, I can positively says that I think the rest will start to follow. It will be a long and winding road, but hopefully Africa as a whole will eventually get there….. but a prime example is desperately needed.
John, having lived in the UK for two years and returning home with the same level of pride and optimism, it was a rude awakening. I wish you the best of luck.
I have read many of the comments on this article and unfortunately I have to say that while it is impossible to predict what South Africa’s destiny will be - it is far more likely than not that corruption, nepotism, complete disregard for the poor and the utter blatant alienation of firstly white and then non-black South Africans will lead to the down fall of this country.
All these so-called homecoming projects to try and bring skilled (read white) people back to South Africa will achieve exactly what? When they get back here they will fail to find employment because of AA and EE, they will not be allowed to own more than 66% of any company hoping to do even the slightest government business or to do business with anyone who does government business - they will have their news articles spoon fed to them by government censors and possibly in the near future be prohibited from buying land in certain areas because of their race! Now I ask you, why would anyone in their right mind want to come back to that.
I am a qualified professional and a white male - I have top marks and an excellent employment record. In my professions qualifying exams I was placed first once, twice second and once third in the four exams. Despite this I am told that I will not be considered for a starting position in a government department because I am immediately disqualified because of my race and gender. Furthermore, those who were lucky enough to be in employment when government clamped down - despite having loads of experience will not be promoted but the black people they trained are promoted over them.
You know what - I hope South Africa does well, my family is here and my brother has brought a new life into this mess - but for all your spin Jonty, you cannot get around the fact that the country of my birth has rejected me on one condition only - race. So I’m leaving - I’m going to a country where I am appreciated for my talents and not my skin tone - and I don’t mean to return. Good luck, I’m out of here.
Is it me or is just odd, that White males in South Africa are the most prosperous segment of our community? I think an attack on BEE and AA policies is a way to vent out the many frustration (some legitimate, some not) that white people have. This is done against a necessary change to redress the unsustainable past imbalances in SA socioeconomic situation.
To paint a picture that says white people don’t have a share of opportunity in SA is a blatant lie. They do have opportunities, more so than blacks, hence the need to balance access to opportunity. The country is in a shortage of skills as it is. By the way we should not assume that all white people will be better qualified in everything, some are hard workers and some not, and fortunately most of them are highly skilled.
Some folks in this blog make disingenuous examples when pointing to their lack of opportunity. They claim that they would not get posts in government, but for jobs that they very well know that they wouldn’t take anyway. Many people want high paying jobs in the private sector, where a large number of people being employed remain white more than black.
I dare not generalize but I suspect that many people who have trouble coming to terms with equality between blacks and white, will probably remain in such paradigms for a long time. If some people believe in their hearts that blacks are just inherently deficient to whites, I am afraid there will be no policy remedy that will heal this black and white divide for them. Moreover I am not sure if we can trust such people to be impartial in positions of influence, if AA policies were suspended with the current imbalance favouring white people.
The sad story is that the problems that South Africa faces are real and they hurt all South Africans. If an incompetent black guy gets a job he does not deserve it hurts all of us. If a white supremacist in an influential position gives special preference to white subordinates over blacks, it hurts all of us. When I look at my own personal development I see how important it is to have a privileged white Boss who can believe in one’s potential and nourish it, not because of affirmative action, but because he truly believes in me as a human being. Perhaps we may not realise it, but the solution of our country lies equally in all our hands black and white. The prosperity or fall of our country lies in all our hands. We all have a stake in fighting crime; after all the death of Lucky Dube should remind us that car hijackers don’t discriminate. We all have a stake in our economy, to ensure that our children have jobs in the future. The white population in the country is just too small to sustain the South African economy to cover all of us. Having many more black people active in our economy is good for all of us. We should not be scared of change but embrace it. Together we should try (even though I know it is very difficult) to work together to solve our problems. Perhaps these solutions don’t lie in the ANC, maybe there is a need for a colour blind mobilization of South Africans who can overlook our political and socioeconomic difference to do something for our future.
To those who are leaving to other countries, I wish all of you the best.
Mpho, just a thought here…if you want to analyse why white males are the wealthiest portion of the population you might want to also consider that virtually every skill needed for a modern economy was imported into South Africa by white males from Europe where the techniques originated. Every country has its wealthy elite and there are doubtless many reasons how they came to be. To simplify the situation to ‘white males are rich coz they had apartheid on their side’ is to look at only one facit, albeit a contributing one no doubt.
Its like me saying that black empowerment entrepreneurs in 2007 are ‘only rich coz government legislated in their favour and handed over the cash’. It does not take their skills, their vision, their network and their abilities into account. Not that simple is it?
Mpho - I am a white male. I am very much still in South Africa and have been for all 25 years of my life. Be careful of tarring all with the same brush.
I am white. I run an white owned and largely white male staffed business. We are growing. We have work.
The really important thing is this, though: I don’t want my business to be pale male dominated. I want black equity partners who will engage in my business and I want black staff and management. Not because I want to have the credentials to get work from Government and Big Business, but because I believe in BEE. I believe that BEE is an important intervention.
I do, however, disagree with the implementation of BEE because it forces black ownership but limits (because of business risk) the equity holders largely to a rich black elite.
So, when I find the right partner(s), I will give him/her a foot up that he/she night not have had were he/she white and make him a part owner of this business. That is the spirit of progress in South Africa and us here on the ground are the people who need to make it happen.
Some time back, my new online chum Ndumiso challenged me to show him my stats regarding the growth of wealth post 1994 in SA, stating that white males had done the best. Thankfully the M&G posted this article and it reminded me to comply…
…Total personal income for all race groups was calculated at R31,1-billion in 2000. By 2006/07 this had grown to R66,7billion. In the same period black income rose from R13,2-billion (42,6%) to R34,7-billion (52,1%) of the total. White income grew from R14-billion (45%) of the total to R23,4-billion (35,2%). While average household income in 1994 was calculated at R2 435, by this year it had grown to R5 319.
Relevance to Zim - the original point was being made about a parallel in the ever-increasing way the SA government is trying to interfere and engineer our society in its image.
I thought your article was reasonably well-argued and I think your quixotic stance is laudable. I invite you to consider the following before your next dinner party.
Zimbabwe was never prosperous. On a straight currency conversation, its GDP per head has never risen above US$ 1500. That means it was and, to a greater extent still is, a low income country. You could unearth some contradictory PPP figures for me but very few econometricians would take you seriously.
I agree with you that prejudice certainly informs dinner table pessimism, but to say that there is no “logical basis for (these) assertion(s)” by way of counter-argument is to make the mistake of investing current data with an illogical allocation of extrapolative consistency. Also, it is the classic philosophical mistake of begging the question which means assuming true that which you are trying to prove. I hope that a man of your intellect has not read and adopted any of the principles in The Secret.
Zimbabwe’s agricultural production was its biggest foreign currency earner. It was generally exported off the continent - not internally and regionally. That only applied to maize and winter wheat which were peripheral crops for most commercial farmers.
You read enough to know that the SA manufacturing sector is weak - we compete neither with first world manufacturing’s skilled labour, and the resulting productivity, nor the wage competitiveness of places like China. Ask a few of your high-powered friends in the textile industry. I would be happy to furnish you with the statistics if you so wish.
South Africa has a murder rate of 55 per 100 000 of the population. England’s is 6 per 100 000. The most violent city in the US has a rate of 12 per 100 000. 1 in 3 South African women lose their virginity to a rapist. These figures can be found in the Econonmist’s archives. See their survey archives.
South Africa’s Gini coefficient (measure of income inequality) is appoximately 0.65. Anything above 0.45 is considered a reliable indicator of potential social unrest according to Nobel Prize winning Economist Michael Spence who spoke at UCT in June and expressed concern over South Africa’s future.
I will stop there to avoid charges of pedantry.
South Africa won’t go the way of Zimbabwe but that is a redundant comment. It is similar to saying you and I will die from different causes. However, South Africa is more like one of the “Trouble Brewing” series of Gary Larson Cartoons. It could go either way.
Jonty, I know you and respect your intellect and business acumen. I don’t own two media companies and I have a low-paying part time job and an unpublished manuscript to my name. However, I feel qualified to comment because I lived in Zimbabwe for 22 years and, because I have more time on my hands, I read more than you.
Yours Respectfully
Andrew Alexander.
Andrew Alexander on November 1st, 2007 at 12:41 am
Dear reader and those joined in sanctamonios agreement with Jonty.
I think we should look at the basics and stop trying to impress each other with our clever wording,bulls**t stats and tecnical hoo-ha.
CRIME!!
How many of the south africans that have made the “chicken run” would not come flooding back home if only they could rest assured their wifes and children were safe from the ugliness of crime.
To all those optimists out there,those of you who find it fit to point fingers and condemn the decsions some of us have had to make about finding a safer haven for our loved ones.
I challange you to look on the bright side of a gang rapeing or child rape that has recently occured in Natal.
why dont we turn the negativity of an uneccessary murder in a quite coffee shop into something positive?Just for the sake of a brighter outlook!
How does the highest crime rate in the world find its way into your pesimistic mind and somehow get despelled or twisted into,”oh well another day in africa”.
Clearly these are the words of people who have yet to lose someone dear to them in the most hanious way the human mind could conjor.
I love my country to the point that i will never feel at home elsewhere in the world.
I have traveled extensively and lived as much through out the world and only have a true sense of belonging on the red soils of africa.
I am one hundred percent behind BEE,land destribution and most other government policies that us whites deam as so called reverse raceism.
after all ,what have we done through out our shaded past to help in the destruction of the beautifull continent?Is it not time and due that the africans have their share?
But i am not blinded by the fact that crime,when it rears its ugly head in South Africa, means death,rape and slaughter.
Will we end up like zims??Well who really knows.
We could spend years debating and argueing about it.I doubt it will go the same way once crime has been rightfully addressed and dealt with.
Conquer crime and ill be back.I’ll take the power shortages,the hooting taxis,the street vendours,the bickering politicians,the jozi traffic jams,bumpy roads,lower income,crappy medical services and persistant car gaurds.
I’ll take it all as this is what makes South Africa one of the most interesting countries on earth.A delicious recipe for a coulorfull,essentric and different cookie all together.
But the damn crime will destroy it all if we don’t beat it down.
here is to hopeing that 55 murders in 100000 becomes 5.(bollocks stat!)
clive
My comments were apparently unsuitable for your restrictive editorial guidelines (in my opinion) therefore I will rephrase my views and tone them down a little bit so that I might find expression in your otherwise interesting forum.My problem Jonty to cut a long story short is that I’m sceptical of your views.I am born and bred in Zimbabwe and you cannot suddenly make me forget several decades of racism.The race aspect inevitably has to come into any meaningful and intelligent debate on Zimbabwe and unfortunately its sometimes inadvertently ends up manifesting itself in so called ‘racism remarks’ or comments open to misinterpretation — as apparently happened to my previous views but I just see it as open debate or some form of literay fundamentalism.But here is what I think.Nothing personal.Zimbabwe is going the ‘Zimbabwe way’ not because of poor governance and maladministration.We introduced IMF SAPS in the early 90s to boost stagnating economic growth and embrace the realities of market liberalism.We did well in that respect.However,the benefits of openess also brought the danger of vulnerability — in terms of openess of economy to to external attacks or shocks by speculators and powers that be ie the US and UK — who constantly wanted to push political doctrines eg unilateralism and capitalism.We resisted.We even won prevailed on CITES — delisting of the elephant from APPENDIX 2 — much to the chagrin of western pple,some of whom had never seen an elephant before.Mugabe increasingly became a lone leading voice and a thorn in the flesh for bully boys in the western world.Eventually we attracted westerb isolation and sanctions and our economy started plummeting — to record inflation levels today.Mugabe resisted and still resists today even though the resistence has taken a new twist in that it means he can’t resign and he has become preoccupied with self preservation naturally.All of us would do the same.These guys will simply do to him what they did to Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosovic if they had a chance to ie Trumped up charges,UN Tribunal,incarceration and eventually a noose around his neck.Charles Taylor might suffer the same fate but interestingly Bush and Blair will walk scott free almost certainly.Just think of this for a moment (this is mind blowing)Hillary Clinton asking putting her case for a regime change in Gordon Brown’s Britain for human rights abuses and stuff.Its unimaginable pple–even to the most fanciful mind.So ladies and gentlemen,that is the Zimbabwe way.Thabi Mbeki has played the quiet diplomacy card well in many respects.Let him keep quiet and passively second everything the powers that be want and then South Africa will not go the Zimbabwe way.Let him let bygones be bygones and leave white South Africans alone,then SA certainly will not go the Zim way.And you Jonty,if you truly believe what you wrote,and carry on to express your views without bias or fear of offending opposing views,then some day 200 million years from now,you will be my hero too sir.
After reading all the posts, Hans Blix has hit the nail on the head. African leaders simply cannot afford to defy the west and have thier own opinions & policies. Zim is the prime example of what happens to a developing country that goes against the MIGHTY WEST. South Africa must heed this warning!!
Mphehliwayo.
You are wrong on one point. I was one young, white female who left this country in 1968, leaving my entire family behind and breaking their hearts and mine in the process.
Why did I go? Because I was sick of what the Government was doing to all it’s people, both black and white. Blacks didn’t have a total monopoly on suffering during the Apartheid years - some of us whites suffered as well, just in different ways.
I was lucky. I fell in love with my adopted country (England), did well and have now bought a house here so that I can spend the last few years that my mother has left to live, in closer proximity to her. Unfortunately, it’s too late for my grandmother and my father. What price can you put on the unhappiness my mother endured at never having the pleasure of seeing her granddaughter growing up. Yes, we ALL suffered.
My brother and his family are now gone too (victims of BEE) so I am all she has left. And, guess what, I am only allowed to come here for three months at a time. Yet more suffering for someone who put the masses before family and nowadays sometimes regrets it, when confronted with reverse racism - and there is plenty of it about.
I feel no guilt for apartheid - it was not my doing, I didn’t condone it (nor did anyone else in my family) yet by being here now, I am able to support financially, the education of two black children and hopefully do my bit to offer them a better life. This would be one good way for South Africans of all colours to invest in their future rather than resorting to racism and driving people out.
Ndumiso:
Isn’t it odd that you only made one comment - just a little bit touchy don’t you think?! Did I hit a nerve?
Sure, I’ll give you a blow by blow account.
My brother was a structural engineer with more than 30 years experience in one of SA’s major engineering groups. He had to stand by and have someone totally unsuited for the job, promoted over him. The man made numerous errors which my brother had to cover up. He now works for a major US engineering group where he is promoted on his skills and not held back by his colour.
My niece qualified as a junior school teacher but could not get a job in a government school. She was not interested in the private sector as she wanted to make a contribution to people who really needed her. She now works in the US school system in a predominantly black area.
My nephew was an IT specialist who could not get a job either other than in a fast food establishment. He now works for Apple in the US.
They left SA in 1995. Perhaps things would have been different now but they couldn’t afford to stay and find out.
One thing is for sure though, the US has certainly benefited from skills that South Africa could well do with now and they won’t be coming back - they are now all US citizens and totally comitted to their new homeland.
These two kids are now also separated from their mother who still lives in SA as her ailing parents needed her.
So, another generation of white South Africans has been split - and this time not by apartheid but by reverse apartheid. When will it all end?.
As I said previously, we have all suffered but in different ways. It’s time we buried the past and got on with the future so that no more highly skilled people (both black and white) are forced abroad.
Titty, it takes a little bit me more to get me riled up. I was just mocking you.
Now that we know your concept of BEE is a little warped, we can move on. So, your problem is with AA. Old argument, been there, moved and got the scars.
So, AA promotes incompetent, perhaps slightly dimwitted black people over brilliant, qualified white people. Got it.
Nudumiso:
Nobody said anything about dimwitted black people except you.
I was not suggesting that the man promoted over my brother was dimwitted - just under qualified through no fault of his own. Five years down the road, he may well have been equally or better qualified through experience, but he wasn’t at that time.
What about my niece who had the skills this country desperately needs? I know how desperately because I am putting two black kids through school and also supporting a local (predominantly coloured) school, where the government contribution towards reception class education is R4 per pupil, per day, at a time when the Government is flush with money.
So really, as far as education goes, not a lot has improved but a lot of people have got very, very rich and I am not suggesting for a minute that they are all black. This is the BEE problem and really AA is simply a form of BEE except that ordinary people don’t get filthy rich on it. I personally know white people (not previously disadvantaged!), who have gained huge benefits from BEE.
Take the blinkers off. Stop thinking that everyone is anti black. Give white people a chance and you will see that some of us really care and are doing our best.
l
“He had to stand by and have someone totally unsuited for the job, promoted over him. The man made numerous errors which my brother had to cover up.”
Hey, isn’t that like, what they did back in apartheid… ya know… qualified black guy teaching dimwiited white guy so that dimwitted white guy can be boss of qaulified black guy? Oh, wait a wimnute. That is actually what is still happening. At one of the few ‘real’ jobs that i’ve had, i recall dimwitted white guy being given prefernce by dimwitted white boss. Sheesh, the good ol days still rocks. I also remember hard working black guy being let go after contract was finished. I do however understand why dimwitted white boss let hard working black guy go. That dude was roo freakin black. I mean seriously, that dude is blacker than Wesley Snipes. No jokes.
Grow up! Learn to read what is written, not what you think is written, write intelligently and spell correctly and then make a considered contribution rather than the usual rant. That way I might give some credence to what you have to say. Clearly you didn’t “read” my second letter.
Just because “they” did it doesn’t mean” we” have to do it. We need to move beyond tit for tat, mature and help this country grow into the wonderful place it can be for all of us.
Get off your high horse, drop your anti white attitude (whether you are white or black), say goodbye to the past and move on into the future. If this doesn’t happen, there is no long term hope for South Africa.
I have been part of endless discussions surrounding this topic, and I am discovering the importance of observing what is happening in a more global context as well.
In a nutshell my current perception leads me to consider that we are facing a global challenge that is similar to challenges faced in other countries in the world, and we are at a point where history is in the making and the world dynamics are changing very rapidly.
These changes are impacting on Africa as a whole, just like they are also impacting on the American, European and Asian continents right now.
I read with interest, and a not so small smirk, most of the posts. You optimists are what makes a country great; unfortunately, you have little understanding of the dominant culture that is leading you. That history is conclusive: there is no chance for success. SA is doomed, it is merely a matter of time.
I’m am one of the South African’s who left. I left not because I hate South Africa, but because my beautiful wife is a Canadian girl. We lived for sixteen months in SA after our marriage and after an incredibly long time of being rejected from position after position we decided to apply in Canada (where I now live and work.) I was told countless times to my face that if I was black I would be the perfect applicant. What racism is this under the guise of rebuilding. Apartheid isn’t dead… it’s just changed ownership. There are several things that I refuse to apologize for. I refuse to apologize for a past I had no hand in. I was a kid when apartheid ended. Did I benefit from apartheid? Probably… but I didn’t ask for those benefits either. I am not a racist… I believe the lack of acceptance for any other human being is an incredibly destructive force, however I am proud of my culture…and will not say sorry merely based on pigmentation I share with some bigots who ran SA into the ground.
The second thing I won’t apologize for is wanting the best for my wife and kids. Does SA have a lot to offer? By all means. Was I satisfied with the level of security for my family and what I had access to as far as employment? No!!! There is often this depiction of ex-pats that we took the easy way out… Let me assure you there is nothing easy about uprooting all you have to make a better life and future for your kids. There is nothing easy about leaving behind ll that you know and love. I wish all the best to those who stick it out. We’re all a little brave and cowards in our own way.
whether or not zimbabwe’s economic crisis was because of poor management or poor governmental controls, this started even before mugabe was elected as a president, i therefor say south africa is heading nowhere near zimbabwe’s blues, blue collar or BEE.
i have read most of the comments, but what i have to say has nothing to do with race, but with gender. implentation of programmes like “take a girl child to work” undermines my confidence as a young fella from a township, to add on that more and more opportunities are being granted to females, what are we preaching gender equality whereas we don’t mean it, now the question : is affirmative action ferminine? south africa will never hit down bottom like zimbabwe did!
Just be careful what you wish for South Africa!.Isnt it ironic that just a couple of months later since Jonty posted this blog,SA is going the Zimbabwe way — whatever that means.In case you dont know,the signs include a depreciating/weakening currency,loss of confidence in the financial mkts,higher inflation,unemployment concerns,weak fundamentals generally — not to mention rolling powercuts by our beautiful ESKOM expected to last four years.You might want to blame it on govt profligacy,BEE,falling commodity prices,poor governance,poor investor policy or OUR ZIMBABWE indeed but bottomline is you’re eye balling the spectre of gradual and sustained economic malaise and ultimately,collapse — not withstanding that your correspondents from the STAR,M&G,SABC 2 and 3 and e-tv (from Beitbridge — poor Deborah Patter — I just love it) are busy trying to solve our problems while South Africa burns!.Told ya.Good luck.p/s dont mess up 2010 for us please.
Bongani M, I respectively disagree. Although Zimbabwe had issues before Mugabe they were never as severe as they are now. From the moment Zimbabwe removed farmers who had the ability to add to the GDP from farm land and handed it over to Mugabe’s cronies. The moment the country was crippled in it’s ability to produce it was all downhill from there. South Africa is walking a very thin line. There is discussion in SA parliament right now about the speeding up of an expropriation act. Land redistribution is a joke. Where do we draw the line. Surely land should then be returned not to the Zulus, Xhosas and Sothos but to the rightful heirs SA’s first inhabitants the Khoi San or “Bushmen”.) Land redistribution is nothing but a farce.
It will cripple SA’s farming. Our mining industry is already running at less than capacity because our politicians who have there heads so far up Mugabe’s rear are giving electricity away for next to free to Zimbabwe while SA can’t produce enough for its self. We can live in this delusion that SA will never become like Zim, but it’s merely arrogance we can’t afford. It’s time to stand up to foolish leaders (i.e. Thabo Mbeki) and begin to make healthy choices for South Africa and Southern Africa.
Clint B, Its very easy for you to say “Land redistribution is nothing but a farce” because neither you, your father & your grandpa were at the recieving end of the oppresive colonial/ apartheid regimes. Its people like you who are quick to say “it all in the past” presumably while sitting on your leather sofa and watching your favorite program on a 60″ television. Maybe i’m wrong about you but your comments have made alarm bells ring in my head. I’m keen to know how you would redistribute wealth/land in the new South Africa.
@wgotora - while I fully support the notion that land should be given back to its rightful owners once the invaders have been defeated, the rightful owners need to undertsand how to use the asset.
If property rights are not safe guarded by the government of the day then foreigners will not invest in the country. Without foreign investment (ie trade) local economies don’t thrive and grow and the land becomes less valued and useless.
Secondly there are now more people than land in any country. The land has to feed the people otherwise starving people tend to get rid of the government.
So you can take back your land BUT be careful that you don’t starve your people. The communists the world over have found this out to their detriment.
Uncle Bob is now so anti white that he is no longer pro black and his own people are starving.
Be pro black not anti white by first ensuring that your people are fed and then ensure that they can participate in the economy by using assets like land properly and don’t throw out foreign expertise before you have local expertise to replace it.
That is, manage transition from colonial rule to local rule. This takes at least one genreation to get right. There is no easy quick fix otherwise like Uncle Bob and most of africa you can throw out the baby with the bath water.
wgotora ,frankly I don’t give rats behind what you think you know about me. I was in school when apartheid ended… so I’m not going to apologize for something some Afrikaner did to your people. I refuse to apologize for sharing the same skin tone as some bigots whose actions I was never old enough to condone or approve. No black person is disadvantaged because of my actions. This is where affirmative action and land redistribution is critically flawed. Innocents are made to suffer for the screw ups of the guilty. An unhealthy cycle is created. When will my generation of young white folk be avenged for the way they have been treated. In 20 years will we need affirmative-affirmative action. Will land need to be claimed back for folk who didn’t gain there land through ill means in the first place. Marten Luther King Jr said it best… “An eye for and eye leaves every one blind.”
wgotora, I’m wondering how you suggest we handle redistribution of wealth/land in our country. If we’re basing it on returning land to it’s rightful owners, how far back do we go? Land in SA doesn’t then belong to Xhosa and Zulu folks as even they are not truly indigenous to SA… the first to move into the region were the Khoi San… if anything they should have it.
I was never handed anything on a silver platter. I completely put myself through college in a “free” and desegregated South Africa. I worked hard for everything I have. Even my school career was desegregated for most of my schooling. So… with zero white guilt… I don’t give a flying fig what you think.
Clint B,you are still young at heart good sir.You write so passionately about the world as you’d rather see it with your young eyes.You don’t want the sins of your ancestors to be visited upon you,and rightfully so.But WGOTORA has a valid point in that land redistribtion and BEE are policies or political processes that you cannot trivialize or just wish away so flippantly or frivolously.They are deliberate policy initiatives aimed at redressing past imbalances created by repressive,segregatory (if ever there was such a term!) policies which sought to empower a minority few at the expense of a million others.For as long as we have a powerful minority clique Clint B that lords it over an impoverished majority that situation is untenable,a recipe for a revolution — an accident in waiting so to speak.Therefore,the sooner the political leadership addresses the thorny issues of land redistribution and economic black empowerment the better for South Africa.In this regard I wish to empathise with Mr Gotora who writes knowingly about the years of racial abuse at the hands of white people we cannot suddenly disregard,whimsically.Let us embrace these policy initiatives that seek to cure a festering wound so to speak.I hope you understand what we are saying —- read this with an open,objective mind good sir.
Clint B & Owen, thankyou for your responses. both of you have missed my point completley. Clint B:- I did not ask for an appology from you nor is anyone forcing you to appologise for the “sins of your kith”. You obviously do not understand what land redistribution is all about. You seem to think that its all about revenge. The word “redistribution” is self explanatory, its mereley sharing the land equitably for all citizens of South Africa without racial bias. If you read my posting correctly, you would have noticed that i never said all the farms must be returned to its (in you words)”rightfull ownwers”, i was simply objecting to your comment that “Land redistribution is nothing but a farce”. You’re correct in saying that the land does not belong to the Xhosa and Zulu folks, in fact, the land belongs to all the citizens of South Africa and therefore MUST be shared equally & transparently. To answer you question “how far back do we go?” We go back to the time when white colonial settlers started to allocate for themselves some 80% of SA’s land at the expense of the local inhabitants. by the way, you still have not responded to my question on how you would handle the current imbalances of wealth in the new SA.
Owen - I agree with you in most respects except that i’m neither pro black no anti white, I am pro a South African Nation with genuine equality for all citizens.
pls excuse any spelling errors as english is my second language.
Hans Blix, I am young, but this does not disqualify me from seeing truth. From knowing what is right or wrong. you said, “They are deliberate policy initiatives aimed at redressing past imbalances created by repressive,segregatory (if ever there was such a term!) policies which sought to empower a minority few at the expense of a million others.” I have two issues with this. The first is this, is it not counter productive to correct imbalances by creating further imbalances? Maybe this is less true of land redistribution, but it is certainly true of affirmative action. Will there come a time when we will need affirmative action for white young people that have been marginalized by our government. Our current government has joined in perpetuating the cycle that apartheid started rather than trying to overcome it. Bee and affirmative action don’t cure the problem, but rather create new problems and new inequality. Sorry, I’m a big picture kind of person and looking down the road I see us needing to correct or “heal” the problems that the Current New Apartheid has made for us. I have a problem with the double standard philosophy that our government teaches. On one side we say, “There is no white or black or coloured or indian in South Africa… there are only South Africans…” but on the other hand we say, “In order to correct the imbalances of the past. The sinful system of apartheid that disqualified people based on the color of their skin… mere pigmentation… we must do the same thing. We’ll disqualify millions of young white south africans who had nothing to do with Apartheid based on the colour of THEIR SKIN!” Does this method not scream it’s flaws at you. Until South Africans are treated based on their shared birth right and their common inheritance their will never be true equality in South Africa. I’m not asking for you to agree with me, but to at least understand my point of few and where my intense frustration and anger comes from. I like millions of White South Africans did not ask to be born in South Africa, but we were. We did not condone apartheid, but it happened, to be deprived of our inheritance because of what Some racist e did does not breed a sense of equality, but further contempt and separation amongst South Africa’s youth. This approach will not bring the healing it so fervently claims that it’s trying to bring. The second part of your statement I take issue with is this, “For as long as we have a powerful minority clique Clint B that lords it over an impoverished majority that situation is untenable,a recipe for a revolution” Their has been for a while in South Africa a new minority that lords it’s power. However it’s no longer as clear cut as a Black and White issue. The current regime as well known for benefitting a mere few while the majority suffers. Bee and other reformative processes haven’t benefitted the masses, but rather a minority of Elitist Black folk. Here in lies the rub! For almost every third world or developing nation this has been the case and it is something I see behind the curtains in South Africa. The intentions are good… but it is naive to believe these tools benefit the masses. When our politicians put their money where their mouths are and and not into their own pockets maybe I’ll come around to your side a bit.
Wgotora, just two responses from your statements, ” its mereley sharing the land equitably for all citizens.” I hope you are right I hope it can be done so peacefully and productively. I wish I could have so much trust in the system, however it’s been a betrayal already to so many people both white and black that I’m not putting any money on it. I’m hoping that Zimbabwe isn’t a road map for South Africa. Where land didn’t go to who it should have, but rather to Mugabe’s elite. If we don’t implement adequate agricultural training for the new farmers and we don’t give them the skills… I’m pretty sure we will be heading down a dangerous road. You said, “You’re correct in saying that the land does not belong to the Xhosa and Zulu folks, in fact, the land belongs to all the citizens of South Africa and therefore MUST be shared equally & transparently.” That does not give me any sort of peace of mind us our Current government does not have a great track record when it comes to doing things transparently. There have already been so many accusations of corruption thrown around that I’m not holding my breath.
You also wrote, “To answer you question “how far back do we go?” We go back to the time when white colonial settlers started to allocate for themselves some 80% of SA’s land at the expense of the local inhabitants.” Who decides this…. Who set’s this horrible time in history as the time.” These settlers are dead… do we become the new colonials and chase farmers off their land who had no part in this.” If we’re going to address history and try and fix all our mistakes… we truly need to go back further and not a white or black person should own a shred of land. Like I have said repeatedly the Khois San were here first… I’ve always been a first come first serve kinda guy! I’m simply saying… that this can become obsurd. What if I went hundreds of years back and went to scotland and insisited I had land returned to my family… I’d be laughed off in a second. You have hundreds of claims for land by people who never lived on that land… not in their generation. The only place I say for land claims are in instances like district 6 where we have people who are still alive who were personally effected by that event, but to take land away from current innocents in order to correct something in some cases over 100 years ago is bordering on lunacy and will be committing the same sins against a new generation.
In response to how do we handle distribution of wealth and land in South Africa. I don’t say that I have all the answers. I know I don’t trust the current government to be ethical in their handling of this issue. We can clearly see that their elite has benefitted more than anyone. I do know their are things that need to be done correctly from as far as I can tell and I have read hasn’t been done. I think genuinely adequate training needs to take place so that the new inhabitant and all South Africans could benefit from the wealth of that land. If the land just becomes dry baron and abandoned the way it has in Zim, well than that land isn’t really good for anyone. Farmers who are requested to give up the land need to be payed market value for what they are asked to give up. As an alternative their should be a 50/50 or 60/40 land share proposal. What is wrong with asking farmers and potential new inhabitants to consider a share situation. We can not repair all mistakes of the past, but the least we can do is not further damage a new generation in the process. Wgotora, I could ask you the same thing. You haven’t really answered my question about how we should go about returning land and wealth to the people. The ANC hasn’t really pulled it off… so you must know of some other miraculous way to pull it off with out damaging our economy. Hope this clarifies things for both of you.
Well said Clint B.Your arguments are logical and quite reasonable but you have to appreciate the fact that governing a country is a very practical exercize,purely administrative in some respects viz the beaurocracy and stuff but at other times there is an overriding political landscape that leads to decisions being made which may be seen to be undermining the interests of certain races or groups.South Africa only got independent in 1994 if I m right,so point is its too early for white people to start complaining of being “marginalised” or left out in the dark.I do not in anyway condone corruption,where you claim a few black elite have hijacked BEE and affirmative action policies for their own selfish benefit but at the same time remember that we talking of so many poor black people who were disadvantaged in the worst concievable manner,by a system which was totally unjust and evil FOR SO MANY YEARS.Thats where the catch is.For white people to therefore start crying about being marginalised or left out of the political process (inadvertently in my opinion)is preposterous my dear friend.Its only been 14 years Clint B.Don’t be such a cry baby son.These guys have been decent enough to say lets forget about apartheid and try to co-exist peacefully with people of color.What more do you want?And dont talk about crime cause it affects everyone the same.Not to be too hard on you all i m saying is land redistribution and affirmative action are crucial to appease a hitherto disadvantaged black majority (its called national ethos or something) and I think for the time being lets overlook the petty issues of black elites and stuff cause these are arguments which detract from the overall objectives and achievemants of these noble policies.We cannot therefore stop BEE and affirmative action because Clint B and his buddies think its unfair to them?Can we?There is a season for everything and right now Patrice Motsope and the Cyril Ramaphosas and those other guys can go ahead and make their billions I m cool with that.White people dont want to see black people make money.Thats how it comes across.
Wow, I’m always amazed! As soon as somebody speaks up in South Africa and uses their democratic right to point out the injustices of our governing system or of the high crime rate in our country we’re told to hush up or to “stop being a cry baby” …hmmmm… kinda sounds like another system just north of our borders… Sir… you are lucky to have people like me in South Africa who don’t shut up and who speak up when they disapprove. THIS IS DEMOCRACY. Autocratic states and dictatorships tell us to shut up and stop being cry babies. Maybe that is what you want for SA… but it’s not what I want. Your statement about it being only 14 years is irrelevant. That would only have any logic if I had a roll in apartheid, which I did not. A country punishing innocent citizens under the guise of equality or as in the old regime, under the guise of keeping the peace is wrong. It was wrong during the old Apartheid and it’s wrong now during the current Apartheid!
P.S I’m very happy for black folk to make billions I think it’s awesome, not though when it’s done through means that cripple their own people. When an ANC politician spends funds on themselves meant for the uplifting of a poor community that annoys me.
Sir… there seems to be in your writing another motive, Something sinister. You see… I am truly pro South African… not white nor black but South African. I don’t want to see just some elite politician ( which I by no means see as a small problem) at the top taking the cream… I want to see all South Africans benefit from this…. Did you do something during apartheid that you need to ease your conscience?
You see… I don’t have any white guilt… to express guilt for sins I didn’t committ would be ridiculous. I think that’s exactly it… Maybe you treated maid or your gardner poorly during apartheid and this is your remorse? Jumping on the ANC propaganda band wagon and spewing out all their PC words… or maybe their is some way that you are benefitting from BEE and so it suits you to say all that you do.
All I can say is Viva the cry babies, because it will be a sad day for South Africa when that democratic voice is squashed. You may want a dictatorship Hans… I want to see a truly democratic SA where nothing is based on skin colour. That is the South Africa Nelson Mandela envisioned. Weather it be for 1 year or 14 years or 46 years injustice to any race is wrong. The kind of South Africa your prepose Hans makes you sound just a little like a Fascist. You want to oppress the voice of South Africa’s diaspora. There is a reason their is a mass exodus of South Africa’s youth. Again young folk who have nothing to do with the Apartheid regime other than the fact that they share the same lack of tan with PW Botha…. You can use pretty words like affirmative action and bee…. but when millions… MILLIONS of innocent white South Africans are displaced because they are not afforded the same rights as black people that is racism no matter how you paint it or what politically created word you insist on using. You talk about deliberate strategies from the government. You talk about it being just a clinical administrative process… that sounds exactly how Hitler and the Nazi party painted the beginning of their rule in Germany.
I left South Africa three years ago because of the crime rate where I was mugged twice and my brother’s house being broken into. I started to believe that South Africa was going the way of Zim but after much thinking I know in my heart of heart that that was not true. South Africa is in my heart - it is the land of ‘Cry The Beloved Country’. So many foreigners are crying to be there.
People from Britain come to settle down there. People from Mauritius, Pakistan and India find it a good place to settle and run a business. Water, electricity and needless mentioning the food are so cheap. With a salary of R5000 per month in Durban one can easily live and fill one’s fridge.
Your article is so genuine and factual that it has re-kindled my heart and given me a new sense of awakening.
It is just the crime rate that is affecting the lives of people. Fear of the unknown and intimidation can be the scariest experiences in one’s life. Hence, this is what happens when one is a victim of a bad experience. Like myself, I have judged the whole state because I was attacked and robbed.
I think much effort is needed from the Government to tackle crime in South Africa because apart from affecting the lives of simple people in many areas it has and is still affecting business on a large scale. Johannesburg and Hillbrow used to be oosmopolitan, safe and people could walk anywhere they want without any fear. But look at the city now. Buildings in ruins. no-go areas, derelict and investors have ran away to run their business elsewhere. This would not have happened if policing, patrolling and arresting criminals were more tough. The UK has the most number of CCTV cameras in the whole world - South Africa has the financial resources to employ more police with the latest fighting crime technology.
I have often been told that police in SA are not well paid and therefore they do not want to risk their lives for peanuts. So, the general attitude is that many of them will turn a blind eye when a crime is being committed. They need to be motivated and properly paid.
Anyways, SA is only going down on the crime rate but going down like Zimbabwe? No, I don’t think so. I miss my braai man at Blue Lagoon in Durban man.
Jonty Fisher… how arrogant and assured would your article be if you wrote it today. There have been so many things happen in very recent news that push us as a country ever closer to the brink of becoming the next Zimbabwe.
We have a president that quite frankly should marry Rober Mugabe already… I mean they’ve been courting for so long they may as well make it official. His “quiet diplomacy” is an absolute farce. Now we are seeing the repercussions of that lack of action. By not taking a stand and action against Zimbabwe we have reached critical boiling point in our own country. It had to happen sooner or later. Now we are left to pick up the pieces from this monumental xenophobia situation. Come on speak up… write us a new “insightful” article.
Yeah - go, on Jonty. Give us that rose-tinted whimsical fantasy you & Mbeki are clearly peddling… I could uses a laugh. Only problem is - the likes of yourself will be the first to jump ship when it hits the fan… thats if you’re still in town right now.
Yeah Jonty, who’s supposedly intelligent now? I have to admit your snotty condescension irked for a long while but anyone with such blinkered outlook was never going to read the signs and not see the trend. Actually I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you still think its hunky dory in sunny SA? I had noticed you have been somewhat silent in the last few months, could you really be feeling a bit of a …? As Clint B says, let’s hear what you think now?
Ten years ago I was a serious optimist, now I’m just really sad and if it all turned around tomorrow I would be ecstatic, but this country needs objective commentary, not your puppy dog optimism.
having seen what happened in zimbabwe & now in south africa you can understand why the whites of south africa did not want to give power to blacks. it was survival.
PLEASE GIVE ME EVIDENCE ON PAPER THAT BLACK AFRICANS OWNED THE LAND, ITS STRANGE THAT BLACK TRIBES MASSACRED EACH OTHER FOR AREAS OF LAND. ZULUS KILLED THOUSANDS OF XHOSA TRIBESMAN AND OTHER TRIBES. WHY NO TRUTH & RECONCILIATION COMMISSION MR TUTU???BUT WE ONLY HERE OF LAND THEFT WHEN THE WHITE MAN CAME.
I wrote more than 18 months ago as my wife and I left the UK for the pastures in SA, our baby daughter was born soon after our arrival here.
I am now more confident than ever that one of the good decision I ever made was to go to the UK, to explore the world, to see how things are done in the 1st world and to make up my mind about SA. I found that many Saffas living abroad live a lie, by constantly reminding themselves of how bad life is in SA and how grand it is over there. The harsh reality is that I was one of them, until I could no longer face the lie I was living in.
The other excellent decision I made was returning to this glorious country of ours. I truly feel at home and welcome. I can see that our daughter grows with enormous health here as the air is a lot cleaner, the food (yes believe it) a lot more healty.
People should focus and look at the positives. A culture shift is needed where all people, especially the ones from the poorer communities realise how important it is to be well educated. They will be pleasantly surprised to see how much this country offer. We must help ourselves and should not wait for the government to do it for us. The reality is that any government can only do this much …
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Jonty Fisher is a born marketer and a frustrated political pseudo-journo. He owns the integrated marketing agency, Traffic Integrated Marketing, as well as media company Mediaweb Online. He also authors the political commentary site, The Fishbowl.
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My Blog The full Fishbowl blog gives insight into current South African and international politics, with the occasional rambling into culture...
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Fantastic article, Jonty. This argument will be well used when I’m standing over braais in the near future. Well done.
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