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	<title>Comments on: The &#8216;I&#8217;m not a journalist&#8217; excuse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/</link>
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		<title>By: Yuki</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-22119</link>
		<dc:creator>Yuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-22119</guid>
		<description>I was pretty appalled at the level of misinformed notions about the Catholic Church that were revealed both in Grant&#039;s original statement, in his later responses, and in the allegations of those who took part in the debate. Seems like their opinions are based on information gained from The Da Vinci code.

Not only was the original BBC report thoroughly twisted. (Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church would have recognised that.) Most of Grant&#039;s gripes and responses about the Church were premised on pure prejudices, as were those of many who supported him. 

This was the first time I had read a (non-technical) blog, and it was the first time that I had taken part in a discussion. (It&#039;s quite addictive - I have to admit :-)) My conclusion was this: If that particular blog and discussion are representative of Thought Leader, then Thought Leader is not a blog site for thinkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was pretty appalled at the level of misinformed notions about the Catholic Church that were revealed both in Grant&#8217;s original statement, in his later responses, and in the allegations of those who took part in the debate. Seems like their opinions are based on information gained from The Da Vinci code.</p>
<p>Not only was the original BBC report thoroughly twisted. (Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church would have recognised that.) Most of Grant&#8217;s gripes and responses about the Church were premised on pure prejudices, as were those of many who supported him. </p>
<p>This was the first time I had read a (non-technical) blog, and it was the first time that I had taken part in a discussion. (It&#8217;s quite addictive &#8211; I have to admit <img src='http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) My conclusion was this: If that particular blog and discussion are representative of Thought Leader, then Thought Leader is not a blog site for thinkers.</p>
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		<title>By: BMX</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21865</link>
		<dc:creator>BMX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21865</guid>
		<description>Well it came across as if there were some connection between girls being Cathoilic and skinnering. I went to an all Girls Anglican school and there was a lot of skinner and cliques there as well. Maybe it&#039;s just private girls schools? I don&#039;t know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it came across as if there were some connection between girls being Cathoilic and skinnering. I went to an all Girls Anglican school and there was a lot of skinner and cliques there as well. Maybe it&#8217;s just private girls schools? I don&#8217;t know</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21855</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21855</guid>
		<description>@BMX
You evidently missed the point I was making. 

I said the way she wrote the blog was done like some of the girls used to skinner at my school.  Being Catholic, and having only ever gone to a Catholic school, it&#039;s the only &quot;school&quot; analogy I have and choose to make. 

It was aimed at the MANNER in which she wrote, not the doctrine (even though I have lots of complaints about the doctrine too, based on MY opinion, which is based on MY experiences with said Catholic doctrine and which I chose to drop years ago as I found it to be defunct).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BMX<br />
You evidently missed the point I was making. </p>
<p>I said the way she wrote the blog was done like some of the girls used to skinner at my school.  Being Catholic, and having only ever gone to a Catholic school, it&#8217;s the only &#8220;school&#8221; analogy I have and choose to make. </p>
<p>It was aimed at the MANNER in which she wrote, not the doctrine (even though I have lots of complaints about the doctrine too, based on MY opinion, which is based on MY experiences with said Catholic doctrine and which I chose to drop years ago as I found it to be defunct).</p>
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		<title>By: Do You Think Bloggers Are Journalists? &#124; Blogging Newbies</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21816</link>
		<dc:creator>Do You Think Bloggers Are Journalists? &#124; Blogging Newbies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21816</guid>
		<description>[...] to Jocelyn Newmarch at Thought Leader: absolutely.  If you want to engage in analysis — which most Thought Leader bloggers do — you have to think [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Jocelyn Newmarch at Thought Leader: absolutely.  If you want to engage in analysis — which most Thought Leader bloggers do — you have to think [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J Edgar Hoover</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21785</link>
		<dc:creator>J Edgar Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21785</guid>
		<description>Grant
It would seem that you have an agenda in what you write which is to put down Catholicism. You obviously believe it to be a great force for evil in the world and you feel you must oppose it. You have allowed that viewpoint to cloud your assessment of what the Church actually said about this so called list.  You have read into it what you wanted to find in it.  Trying to point out to the faithful what is morally incorrect in the 21 st century is not evil. Cutting down a forest by hand in Medieval Germany hardly counted as a moral wrong but cutting down the Amazon Rainforest in the 21 st century is. Why is that so?  Becuase the implications are different. In Medieval Germany you would not really be compromising the welfare of the whole planet but by stripfarming the AMazon you are. SO the essential sins greed, lust pride etc remain the same it is how they are implemented that changes thing. Now I realize that you don&#039;t liek the concpet of sin. I presume you feel that we humans are all inately good yet the Church has made us do all these terrible things. I personally think it is the other way round. ALthough I am more a Pelagian than an Augustinian I do feel that we are basically frail or sinful creatures and that is why we screw up so often. Now the guilt free self satisfied atheists well I admire you. Do you mean to tell me that you have never done something mean and base and spiteful just for sommer. I doubt there is anyone here who can say that. SO if humanity is so free and wonderful where do these base feelings and bestial behavior come from. My answer would be sin. I am not sure what the atheist answer is but I have yet to hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant<br />
It would seem that you have an agenda in what you write which is to put down Catholicism. You obviously believe it to be a great force for evil in the world and you feel you must oppose it. You have allowed that viewpoint to cloud your assessment of what the Church actually said about this so called list.  You have read into it what you wanted to find in it.  Trying to point out to the faithful what is morally incorrect in the 21 st century is not evil. Cutting down a forest by hand in Medieval Germany hardly counted as a moral wrong but cutting down the Amazon Rainforest in the 21 st century is. Why is that so?  Becuase the implications are different. In Medieval Germany you would not really be compromising the welfare of the whole planet but by stripfarming the AMazon you are. SO the essential sins greed, lust pride etc remain the same it is how they are implemented that changes thing. Now I realize that you don&#8217;t liek the concpet of sin. I presume you feel that we humans are all inately good yet the Church has made us do all these terrible things. I personally think it is the other way round. ALthough I am more a Pelagian than an Augustinian I do feel that we are basically frail or sinful creatures and that is why we screw up so often. Now the guilt free self satisfied atheists well I admire you. Do you mean to tell me that you have never done something mean and base and spiteful just for sommer. I doubt there is anyone here who can say that. SO if humanity is so free and wonderful where do these base feelings and bestial behavior come from. My answer would be sin. I am not sure what the atheist answer is but I have yet to hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21765</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21765</guid>
		<description>The furore about the media bias of the news organisations mentioned pre-supposes some kind of strategic intent. Most people who have worked for media organisations know that getting two journalists in the same newsroom to agree on anything is impossible, let alone an entire organisation. Which brings me to my second point - the notion of a &#039;media organisation&#039; - another of those delightful oxymorons, like British cuisine.
That newspapers, magazines and broadcasters produce anything with regularity is often by accident rather than design. Again, seasoned hacks will know all too well the perpetual state of chaos that rules the average newsroom.
Only entrenched propaganda vehicles are really capable of producing content with a consistent agenda - I suspect it&#039;s because they get their instructions from people other than editors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The furore about the media bias of the news organisations mentioned pre-supposes some kind of strategic intent. Most people who have worked for media organisations know that getting two journalists in the same newsroom to agree on anything is impossible, let alone an entire organisation. Which brings me to my second point &#8211; the notion of a &#8216;media organisation&#8217; &#8211; another of those delightful oxymorons, like British cuisine.<br />
That newspapers, magazines and broadcasters produce anything with regularity is often by accident rather than design. Again, seasoned hacks will know all too well the perpetual state of chaos that rules the average newsroom.<br />
Only entrenched propaganda vehicles are really capable of producing content with a consistent agenda &#8211; I suspect it&#8217;s because they get their instructions from people other than editors.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant Walliser</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21737</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Walliser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21737</guid>
		<description>J Edgar Hoover - I studied engineering and they didn&#039;t mention anything about personal bias, only the forward bias of a transistor junction ;) You may be right.

I take your point and largely agree but I ask you then if all sources carry some degree of bias, as they surely must do, what pray tell do you suggest I use? What is the location of the great, unbiased research source? I don&#039;t know one so I guess you must apply a filter to multiple sources to erase the noise and see what you are left with.

In this case I read the articles on CNN and BBC and watched the actual TV coverage of the story as well before writing the piece. I then read and commented on the original transcript on which the reports were based and I read rebukes of the articles on 2 Catholic websites and one religious website. I critically analysed the content (something they did teach us in Engineering) and I maintain my position.

Where, pray tell, should I have extended the research net to ensure no bias short of flying to Rome itself? And if all sources are inherently biased, as you claim, why is my article the only one expected to be 100% bias free? Why should I report with no opinion and who on earth would read an opinion blog with no opinion delivered? I have bias. You have bias. Noam Chomsky has bias. Everyone has bias. As long as that bias is not so strong that you resort to fabricating facts or making claims you can&#039;t substantiate with respected sources, in everyday conversation that bias is called opinion - some are for and others against, all with good reasons. We only call it bias when we wish to give it negative spin. Not so?

As for my purported double standards, would you not agree that the same publication might have greater or lesser degrees of bias when dealing with different topics? CNN can hardly be expected to be unbiased when reporting on America in Iraq but I would probably believe their reports on a Tornado in the Midwest. I would be reluctant to believe everything in the BBC reports on UK involvement in Afghanistan and I am certain they currently have a strong anti-Russian stance after the Litvinenko killing but might be less questioning of their reports on the French poll results or dare I say it, an interview with an Archbishop, especially since other news giants posted very similar stories. 

In addition, you mention I should mention my own biases. I went as far as stating that I am not a Catholic, that I believed the overall content of the message was noble yet the implications were not (something people repeatedly glossed over in their own bias) and that due to the content of the blog, I was at risk of insulting religious readers. More than this I can’t do. Suggestions welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J Edgar Hoover &#8211; I studied engineering and they didn&#8217;t mention anything about personal bias, only the forward bias of a transistor junction <img src='http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  You may be right.</p>
<p>I take your point and largely agree but I ask you then if all sources carry some degree of bias, as they surely must do, what pray tell do you suggest I use? What is the location of the great, unbiased research source? I don&#8217;t know one so I guess you must apply a filter to multiple sources to erase the noise and see what you are left with.</p>
<p>In this case I read the articles on CNN and BBC and watched the actual TV coverage of the story as well before writing the piece. I then read and commented on the original transcript on which the reports were based and I read rebukes of the articles on 2 Catholic websites and one religious website. I critically analysed the content (something they did teach us in Engineering) and I maintain my position.</p>
<p>Where, pray tell, should I have extended the research net to ensure no bias short of flying to Rome itself? And if all sources are inherently biased, as you claim, why is my article the only one expected to be 100% bias free? Why should I report with no opinion and who on earth would read an opinion blog with no opinion delivered? I have bias. You have bias. Noam Chomsky has bias. Everyone has bias. As long as that bias is not so strong that you resort to fabricating facts or making claims you can&#8217;t substantiate with respected sources, in everyday conversation that bias is called opinion &#8211; some are for and others against, all with good reasons. We only call it bias when we wish to give it negative spin. Not so?</p>
<p>As for my purported double standards, would you not agree that the same publication might have greater or lesser degrees of bias when dealing with different topics? CNN can hardly be expected to be unbiased when reporting on America in Iraq but I would probably believe their reports on a Tornado in the Midwest. I would be reluctant to believe everything in the BBC reports on UK involvement in Afghanistan and I am certain they currently have a strong anti-Russian stance after the Litvinenko killing but might be less questioning of their reports on the French poll results or dare I say it, an interview with an Archbishop, especially since other news giants posted very similar stories. </p>
<p>In addition, you mention I should mention my own biases. I went as far as stating that I am not a Catholic, that I believed the overall content of the message was noble yet the implications were not (something people repeatedly glossed over in their own bias) and that due to the content of the blog, I was at risk of insulting religious readers. More than this I can’t do. Suggestions welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: J Edgar Hoover</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21695</link>
		<dc:creator>J Edgar Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21695</guid>
		<description>Grant
I for one am under no delusions that BBC CNN et al have agendas in politics and in religion. There is no doubt that the popular media the Mail and Gaurdian in particular have an anti-religious bias. The BBC and CNN have major political elites that they serve. I agree with Noam Chomsky on this. You however are quite happy to say that they are non biased when it suits your anti-religious agenda but you squeal that they are baised when you are writing about world politics. Fair enough Americanpapist is also biased but you need to acknowledge your own biases if you want to be an honest journalist. Perhaps they didn&#039;t teach you that at university</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant<br />
I for one am under no delusions that BBC CNN et al have agendas in politics and in religion. There is no doubt that the popular media the Mail and Gaurdian in particular have an anti-religious bias. The BBC and CNN have major political elites that they serve. I agree with Noam Chomsky on this. You however are quite happy to say that they are non biased when it suits your anti-religious agenda but you squeal that they are baised when you are writing about world politics. Fair enough Americanpapist is also biased but you need to acknowledge your own biases if you want to be an honest journalist. Perhaps they didn&#8217;t teach you that at university</p>
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		<title>By: Grant Walliser</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21687</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Walliser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21687</guid>
		<description>Jocelyn - Perhaps the &quot;I didn’t want my post to come across as a personal attack&quot; excuse could be the topic of your next piece? Seems to be a common one as well ;) 

For the record (and apologies because I am aware this is not on your topic), the only other link provided that you could possibly be referring to was to a blog. That blog had an opposing opinion and a link to the official translation of the interview with Girotti. That official translation starts off with:

Genetic manipulation, environmental pollution, social inequality, unsustainable social
injustice: these are the new forms of sin appearing on the horizon of humanity, like a
corollary of the unstoppable process of globalization.

If anything, the article above goes on to support the facts of the BBC version and not discredit it in my opinion. The big difference...the BBC saw fit to extract the &quot;sins&quot; discussed generally and to bullet-point them in a list and publish it in a light-hearted piece instead of giving it the reverent tone Catholics obviously thought it was due.

Again, if you take issue with my research, please point out the specific issues so that I may defend them. That is the strength of Blogging vs. traditional journalism - the blogger is open to immediate, direct and public criticism, the traditional journalist in all other media is not. This, I think, is one of the reasons that bloggers tend to point out that they are not journalists. Perhaps more accurately they could state that they are not traditional journalists.

So to sum this up: I read and analysed all links posted, I used respected sources, I referenced my main source, I provided comment feedback and further opinion and justification thereof when people questioned my views. I cannot do much more except apologise for my personal opinion and views which I will not do. So lets agree to disagree.

Bygones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jocelyn &#8211; Perhaps the &#8220;I didn’t want my post to come across as a personal attack&#8221; excuse could be the topic of your next piece? Seems to be a common one as well <img src='http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>For the record (and apologies because I am aware this is not on your topic), the only other link provided that you could possibly be referring to was to a blog. That blog had an opposing opinion and a link to the official translation of the interview with Girotti. That official translation starts off with:</p>
<p>Genetic manipulation, environmental pollution, social inequality, unsustainable social<br />
injustice: these are the new forms of sin appearing on the horizon of humanity, like a<br />
corollary of the unstoppable process of globalization.</p>
<p>If anything, the article above goes on to support the facts of the BBC version and not discredit it in my opinion. The big difference&#8230;the BBC saw fit to extract the &#8220;sins&#8221; discussed generally and to bullet-point them in a list and publish it in a light-hearted piece instead of giving it the reverent tone Catholics obviously thought it was due.</p>
<p>Again, if you take issue with my research, please point out the specific issues so that I may defend them. That is the strength of Blogging vs. traditional journalism &#8211; the blogger is open to immediate, direct and public criticism, the traditional journalist in all other media is not. This, I think, is one of the reasons that bloggers tend to point out that they are not journalists. Perhaps more accurately they could state that they are not traditional journalists.</p>
<p>So to sum this up: I read and analysed all links posted, I used respected sources, I referenced my main source, I provided comment feedback and further opinion and justification thereof when people questioned my views. I cannot do much more except apologise for my personal opinion and views which I will not do. So lets agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Bygones.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/comment-page-1/#comment-21654</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/jocelynnewmarch/2008/03/14/the-%e2%80%9ci%e2%80%99m-not-a-journalist%e2%80%9d-excuse/#comment-21654</guid>
		<description>Jonathan
I think all Catholics do feel aggrieved at this. The Church is made up of human beiongs who are all sinners. So these sort of things will happen. ST Augustine said that the Church was a Church of Sinners. That is why we need the Church. Obvioulsy atheists like yourself are not sinners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan<br />
I think all Catholics do feel aggrieved at this. The Church is made up of human beiongs who are all sinners. So these sort of things will happen. ST Augustine said that the Church was a Church of Sinners. That is why we need the Church. Obvioulsy atheists like yourself are not sinners.</p>
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