There are many reasons why DSTV should not have a porn channel, none of which have to do with morals. The debate about morals lands up with sex being a sin or at least frowned upon, and the idea of watching other people having sex is almost outlandish if not only a bit rude. But there are real reasons why porn should not be shown on DSTV, whether you have to pay for it or not. And here they are:
1.Porn displays both men and women in a way that creates a limited understanding of sex which is harmful to both men and women. Why? Because if the only sex I ever see or hear about is where a woman is face down in a pillow or a man has a member the size of the Eiffel Tower I’m going to a) as either a woman or a man have a warped understanding of equal and mutually fulfilling sexual relations. If I understand sex as a male-dominated arena, but I don’t desire that sexual space then it may lead me to think of my own sexuality as flawed/be angered when my partner doesn’t want sex like that. Furthermore b) I’m going to be very disappointed with the average man’s member if I’m a woman, or think my own member is teeny-tiny as a man. All round disappointment really.
2. Porn portrays unequal sexual relations as ’sexy’ and thus puts men in a position of power and women in a position of sexual submission. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes people want their partner to be in charge the sexual situation. Not all sexual encounters are equal and this is not always experienced as dis-empowering, especially when the sex is in a safe relationship. Porn is not about these relationships. It is about ‘women wanting it but not knowing that they want it’ and men ‘taking what they want’. This is a dangerous sexual situation to support in a country with extremely high levels of sexual violence and rape.
3. Porn creates an idea of women as hyper-sexual or ‘gagging for it’. I like sex as much as the next woman. But like most women (and I’m going to say men here too for balance) I’m not simply walking around hoping some man is going to tackle me in a lift and do me up against the mirror while the security company watches. I’m not likely to accept a gang bang in a club, or to suddenly have a stripper pole descend from my ceiling so men can watch. But porn says that I do want these things, and what’s worse, when you show it all day every day on TV, it tells women that they should want these things. As soon as something starts telling me what my sexuality should be like, it shouldn’t be on TV.
4. Porn casts some groups as more sexual than others. Porn constructs black sexuality as ravenous, rough and it constructs white sexuality as timid and lacklustre. Perpetuating racial sexual stereotypes is harmful to all parties, particularly in a country where there are already myths and misconceptions about the spread of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections (STIs).
5. The women in porn (and perhaps the men too) are often coerced into performing. The porn industry is notoriously linked to pimps, and the sex trade. Sex workers across South Africa face physical and sexual abuse daily and are frequently exposed to STIs. The reality is that selling sex is not a safe business for women, and unless we’re going to make our own porn here and ensure that it is filmed in a manner that is both safe and economically empowering for women, then we are allowing DSTV to perpetuate relations of economic dependence and sexual slavery for women.
If 5 reasons aren’t enough, then I’m not sure how many will be.
My interest is in what type of porn the company would like to show, because perhaps this indicates more about their own understanding of personal politics in South Africa. Will DSTV show gay porn alongside heterosexual porn? Will there be SnM? Will there be rape-porn (because this disgusting form of pornography exists)?
I hope that this channel does not go forward. South African’s already have a warped sexual culture that doesn’t need further confusion.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, March 9th, 2010 at 9:47 am and is filed under Perspective, News & Politics.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
85 Responses to “No porn please”
Oh god help us when the young and liberated join the ranks of the conservatives. My reasons to counter yours:
1)Giant members exist. Imagine your shock if you had never ever seen one and a guy whips one out. Are you disappointed that all men don’t look like Brad Pitt? Same argument. We are not idiots. Its a movie. Lack of porn creates a far more limited understanding.
2)Crap. Lots of porn shows a women dominating or women on women or women trapping and abusing a man. Watch more porn.
3)Yes porn shows women who are in charge and sexually liberated and very keen to have sex. Your point?
4)Again, crap. Watch more porn. I have seen porn with a white guy that made your description of a black guy look tame. Its all out there. It actually helps to debunk the bs that most people believe about different races. You can see all types and colours doing exactly the same thing.
5)It is precisely because of Victorian attitudes like yours that this is the case. Legalise prostitution, drop your Calvanistic ideas about sex and allow it to normalise and this seedy element will be replaced by proper professional and ethical operators controlled by law. You and all the church-going prudes are keeping it in the gutter.
Gay porn, S&M…why not. Its out there and I want to know about it. Rape is illegal so unless it is acted, no. Cont.
Well said. Have you read any of Prof Robert Jensen’s research regarding the porn trade ( together with Gail Dines). Most of his stuff can be found on the net.
Cont…I don’t see you trying to ban sex in movies or rape scenes in movies. If anything this Hollywood version of sex does far more damage than having to watch the real thing. Porn is graphic and more realistic. Hollywood creates the kind of false expectations you are so afraid of.
And remember the most important issue here…my right to choose. You are trying to take that away and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are quite entitled to keep your life porn-free but how dare you try to prescribe this for all of us?
On top of your gross presumption, you have no decent studies to show anything adverse related to porn and in fact porn may even prove to have been beneficial to the sexual revolution and an integral part of our more open dialogue on women’s rights and HIV? Porn may prove to be a safe release for paedophiles even reducing the rate of molestation. Clergy watching porn may settle them down and keep them away from little boys. We don’t know and neither do you.
You also lump all porn into into one box. There is good and bad. DSTV is exactly the kind of organisation you want to be screening the stuff and keeping the truly nasty bits away from unsuspecting subscribers.
You must have watched some porn to have your views (do you rape or molest?). You are deciding to deny others that chance. Shame on you.
1) Porn encourages us to explore our sexuality and shows us that there is nothing shameful about this.
2) Porn often puts women “in charge”, empowering women and casting men in the submissive role.
3) The idea that women can enjoy sex and seek it out is a positive thing for society.
4) This is a general problem with society, not pornography
5) This is total bunk, unless you mean coerced by economic prospects, in which case so is anyone who works in a high-risk, low-paying job, like mining, etc. If you mean forced by “pimps” to perform in sexual movies then you are simply wrong. Even among prostitutes most women are not actively coerced, except by economic circumstances, as indicated by the ISS’s 2008 study on selling sex in cape town.
Allow me to attempt a rebuttal:
1. A bit muddled but I think your reasoning is a limited understanding of sex occurrs because of(a) a lack of sexual variation in the material and (b)because the performers are selected for their physical attributes - attributes not shared by the average person. (a)In general there is a wide selection of porn filled with innumerable techniques available for your approval/disapproval so I dont follow that reasoning. (b)Porn is escapism - most tv/cinema is played by casts of people who it could be argued do not reflect the average person.
2. ” men ‘taking what they want’ ” this sounds like a rape fantasy and not reflective of general porn.
3. Once again, porn is escapism. It can sometimes create an image of a promiscuos female just as it can create an image of a promiscuos male. If you feel that porn pushes an image of sexuality on you, how do you respond to talk shows that discuss these topics? One could make a similar arguement that they project an image of sexuality(through the host/specialist), just not as graphically.
4. No idea what you are talking about here.
5. Selling sex is often not a safe industry for women, but a well regulated porn industry may be a better alternative than allowing women in the sex line to fall into the other alternatives you mentioned.
I disagree. If you don’t want it, don’t watch it. My wife and I regularly enjoy a porn movie just for fun. We enjoyed the stuff on TV, it was titillating and amusing. We don’t moralise or over analyse, we watch it for what it is intended; sexy entertainment. You are making silly analogies to ease your conscience. Should cowboy films depict cowboys as artificially rough and tough? Does it incorrectly depict them as being addicted to ham and beans? So what?
the first four reasons make the case for much mainstream media to be banned as well. i can only truly agree with the last reason - and only to some extent as well. the porn industry is not illegal, but it can be unsavoury - and bad elements - but bringing the industry under public scrutiny through presenting its products is surely preferable to letting it languish, coerced performers and all, on the fringe. not that it’s really a fringe pastime anyway … and yes maybe DSTV should be looking at female-friendly and gay porn
Thanks for writing this Jen, these are the objections that should be raised to porn, but everywhere - not just on DSTV. In fact, arguably, the porn on DSTV might be a good idea, if it serves to distract from the kind of material readily (and ubiquitously) avaiable on the internet. That stuff is even more guitly of the elements you mention above than anything you can imagine putting on TV.
People who frown upon pornography (not the beastality type - but involving two consenting adults) need to chill - If you like it, watch it, if not, go for a walk.
Jen on your point one - the porn avaialble reaches far beyond that narrow viewpoint/s.
However, for those who want porn, they can get it for free on the internet, download it, and watch it on their TV’s. Or go get a video. No big deal. Why make it available on a medium if it is only suitable to a few.
why is there always some people who think that they have the right to tell other people what to watch?
you either consider the population grown-up and let them decide what they like and dislike.
or treat them as kids but then start taking away their voting rights and leave porn movies last…
Porn is addictive, and the above commentators are just trying to justify their addiction.
What about the frequency of heterosexual anal sex that occurs in just about every porn movie. This is sure to give the impression to perveyors of porn that this is a normal sexual practice and should be expected from women to put-out.
It is man’s nature to seek greater and greater stimulation to the senses, and sexual arrousal from porn will need to be more and more ‘kinky’ in order to further this aim. Older men all fantasize about sleeping with teenage girls, and porn gives them this in the form of eighteen year olds that look like thirteen year olds. See where I am going with this? Am I talking about YOU?
Porn is not only demeaning to both men and women, but is also harmful to safe sexual practices.
jennifer - many of the reasons why this is a poor article have been raised in preceding comments. but why i want to object is because each reason you raise against porn has everything to do with morals, whether they are valid or not.
1) ‘Porn displays … a limited understanding of sex which is harmful to both men and women.’ the issue is intrinsically a moral one if your concern is harm caused to men and women.
2) ‘Porn .. puts men in a position of power and women in a position of sexual submission.’ this unequal relationship would certainly be of moral concern were it true. men in power have been known to abuse that power, and this seems very much to be your objection. again, it is on moral grounds that you are upset.
3) ‘Porn creates an idea of women as hyper-sexual …’ your point here though is that porn tells women that they should be hyper-sexual. ’should’ is a prescriptive word. and morality by definition is prescriptive. raising this point would only add to your argument if you mean to say that the sexual recommendation porn makes is somehow wrong or bad.
4) ‘Porn casts some groups as more sexual than others.’ this is a moral point because you say that ‘perpetuating racial sexual stereotypes is harmful to all parties’. harm to others is a moral concern.
5) ‘The women in porn (and perhaps the men too) are often coerced into performing.’ coercion in any form is wrong.
I hope DSTV go ahead. I’m not a subscriber and this won’t persuade me to become one, but it is always fun watching the holier-than-thou religious moralisers getting themselves into a lather.
I’m wondering what porn you’ve been watching to get all of the above? Rape Fantasies? Domination? Naughty! You go girl. Now if only you’d stop trying to stop others from seeing it and reaching their own conclusions, that would be swell!
Well done Jen - you’ve encouraged a debate! Both your points and the subsequent comments have been made before in numerous and different guises, but it is a debate we need to have continually- if only to reflect on our own stances to the world of sexual performance. I read an article recently by Elizabeth Bell which shows how pornography and weddings are “mirror doubles of the cultural performance of sex”, which I found delightful and interesting.
@Grant, I’m all for the legalisation of prostitution for the protection of sex workers sexual safety and sexual rights.
I’m not sure why you’re convinced that your 2) is a good reason why we should have porn. Why do you want to see men being abused by women and why is that sexy? Why is abuse sexy?
If you’re worried that there is no evidence for my suggestions, see R’s comment between your rants.
Ian, what I was trying to say is that if this channel does go forward (which I hope it doesn’t) then I hope that it shows gay porn, lesbian porn, bisexual porn etc. If you’re going to support it, it must be balanced.
Egalitarian, if you read the first study you suggest it says
“So in the last two decades, we have conducted a vast experiment on the social consequences of such material. If the supporters of censorship were right, we should be seeing an unparalleled epidemic of sexual assault. But all the evidence indicates they were wrong. As raunch has waxed, rape has waned.”
Yet in South Africa the exact opposite is true. Our sexual violence continues to increase each year, despite there being supposed constitutional protections against it.
@Jen I agree with this sentence under your point 5
….and unless we’re going to make our own porn here and ensure that it is filmed in a manner that is both safe and economically empowering for women, [and men and uplifting for sexuality I would add]…..
It would be great if someone in SA did this. There is a tasteful lesbian porn web site from Australia abbywinters.com which was founded by a woman because she found conventional porn sites so utterly, utterly appalling.
I agree with most of the above (leaving out the blinkered Calvinists - I like that).
A couple of points. On one hand I thought this article was about Porn on Dstv. Obviously Jennifer has not watched any of this, only hard core. I have watched a few minutes occasionally, and find it titillating. I don’t know where she gets the idea you can see members the size of the Eiffel Tower on these films. Darling, they are Soft Core. You see more on programmes like Nip/Tick.
On another hand, I think you will find, Jennifer. that this is one of the few industries in the World where women earn more than men. Empowering, possibly!
Facts negate your argument. Countries with some of the most radical porn in the world (Denmark, Sweden, eg) are also the countries with the greatest equality and real empowerment of women in society, business and politics.
I find it sad that people moralise so vehemently about sex and who should be in ‘charge’ of controlling and legislating it, while we glorify violence and murder. A film with people showing their naked bits gets rated 18, while a film showing someone’s head blown off gets a 13 rating?! Now THAT is the sign of a sick society!
“Porn is graphic and more realistic.” - Grant
I completely disagree. The argument/evidence that has most convinced me about the social harms of porn is the writing around “Deep Throat” (1972)in which Linda “Lovelace” supposedly gave these ridiculously impossible blowjobs. The film was extremely popular and almost went mainstream. What came out later was that she was drugged and coerced into performing those scenes, thus allowing her to perform the naturally impossible. Also after the release of the film a number of “throat rape” cases were reported in emergency rooms becuase of the many men who demanded these “realistic” (as grant uses it) blowjobs.
I agree with Jen. If you want porn go get it from a video shops where you can enjoy it in the privacy of your own home. And claiming to have watched a lot of porn doesn’t make you an expert in justifying it’s placement on television…
In Vol 24, Issue 3, Page 29 of today’s “The Scientist” an article by Prof Milton Diamond of the Dept of Anatomy, Biochemistry and Physiology of the University of Hawai provides a balanced view on the subject.
The reseach indicates that no correlation has been found between exposure to porn and negative attitudes towards women. Rsearch has also found that as pornography has increaed in availability, sex crimes have have either decreased or not increased. More information is availale at http://www.the-scientist.com/article/print/57169/
What Dstv are you watching? Members the size of the Eiffel Tower! Stop assimilating the porn you watch that you bought from a Hustler shop to the boring fare on Dstv. Nip/Tuck is more explicit that that fare Dstv plays out.
Crap article that is badly researched, and an insult to the intelligence. I agree with the majority of the contributors above (except the “Calvinists” - I like that)!
Another thing, Jennifer, the porn industry is one of the few in the word where Women performers earn considerably more than men. Also, look at the industry and see how many female Directors and producers there are. Empowering, possibly!
Jennifer sounds like a woman in a man’s world if you look at the comments. She needs some support. I wouldn’t watch porn if it were the only thing to watch. Watching others doing what I believe should be private, is not my style.
I do think Jennifer’s reasons are worth considering from the point of view that not all voyeurs are likely to be as sophisicated as the people who’ve commented on her post. If we could be sure that TV porn was not the only sex education kids were getting; that parents were taking an active interest in their kids’ (very) basic education and attitudes, I might feel differently.
Instead, there are already too many kids practising porn up against school loos, we are told. Where do they get it from? Probably the porn market.
See my note to Grant on his original column. It begins “what a load of self-serving crap…”
To think we can be really sexually satisfied without embracing another human being is so dumb.
I got more of a rush as a teenager with that first kiss than I have ever got watching porn. But then, I am in my sixties!!!
Great Article Jen. I wish I had the time to respond more thoroughly about the long term damage women in the porn industry suffer physically, and emotionally.
@ Grant ‘Oh god help us when the young and liberated join the ranks of the conservatives.’
Its is precisely because we are young and liberated, that we can recognise that sexual titillation which is systemically harmful, has no place in modern society.
I say ditto to all the things that have been raised in favour of porn… It’s good healthy fun and as for exploiting women, i have it on reasonable authority that the porn trade is one of the few occupation categories where the women outperform the men in the remuneration stakes [any puns here are intentional].
What has not been mentioned however is that the idea of living in a democracy is that the citizen is expected to be regarded as an ADULT.That is why we are free and can vote: because we are adults capable of adult decisions.
For as long as there are people representing their own fears/rage/anxieties [choose which applies] about something like, for instance, the act of copulation in all its infinitely curious disguises… and attempting to impose that limited worldview on society at large then to that extent we are all not free and to that extent we are refusing to grow up and be the adults our democracy is intended to serve.
It is not for you to decide what i should like to watch… If it frightens you press the big button. Remember: For many people the porn channel is the closest they may ever come to real sex.
Sorry Jen but your objections to a porn channel seem to be based on very limited exposure (understanding is probably a better word), to the material and a very narrow appraisal of human sexual relations.
The highly dubious “rape/porn/causative” argument aside - sex between you and your 3D, real-life partner will never be the same as what professionals (and by god they are athletes) can do up on the screen. The same way I’m not disappointed that my gf doesn’t have DD boobs and, for some strange reason, doesn’t want to go down on me all day, every day.
Porn is fantasy, role-play, a laugh and sometimes, an education. I learned much about pleasuring a woman from porn while fiends and classmates opted for the tried and tested “fumble til you get it right” method. Who had the happier girlfriends? Better still who would you rather have been with?
I’m 28, I can watch whatever I want and it’s the infringement of that right, my right to choose what goes into my mindhole, that I’m most insulted by. Regulate it, sure. But banning material is, to put it mildly, fucking archaic.
Don’t want to even get started on why women aren’t more insulted at being clumped together with children and people with disabilities.
Do men not get a Ministry? eh Ms. Sibiya?
@SKR. You are quite wrong about some Scandinavian countries. There is strong ant-porn sentiment in Sweden for those reasons of gender that you talk about. Many decision have been taken that restrict the availability of porn. For eg, no civil servant (includes armed force ) may even stay in a hotel that has porn channels. Porn is also not allowed to be distributed at military bases. Sweden also takes a tough stance against prostitution, criminalising the buyers of sex acts. In Norway hardcore porn is banned. They have similar policies to Sweden regarding prostitution. Denmark is now debating whether to follow suit and also criminalise the purchase of sex acts. Perhaps some revision of your impression of the Scandinavian attitude to the sexual exploitation industries is required
the reason i say you are in fact taking a moral stance is because you are trying to pass off these ‘reasons’ as amoral when they are anything but. you are trying to argue that there are good non-moral reasons not to broadcast porn - in addition to the alleged moral ones - yet you list inherently moral reasons.
the upshot is that it is difficult to read this piece without thinking that you are moralising, or worse, trying to disguise your moral agenda. i’m not sure it is your intention to try to pass off moral reasons as amoral ones. i just think you have not thought clearly enough about what you are trying to say.
like it or not, your objection to porn on dstv - as you have presented it here - is a moral objection. in other words, your piece adds little to the discussion, except by provoking one. it would have been genuinely interesting to hear of some non-moral reasons against porn.
@ Ken, I’m not sure if you’ve missed the boat, but DSTV would like to introduce a channel exclusive to porn. This is no nip/tuck, after 12pm tv experience, but a 24 hour channel of the stuff.
Nicholas, if abusive sexual relationships don’t scare you I’m not sure what button you’ve turned off.
D. The problem with morals is that they are so relative and much like culture are only called on to justify something for the benefit of one person or group. Morals don’t exist in a vacuum out there in the world. They are constantly renegotiated and changed to suit the powers that be. If I was unclear, let me reclarify - I mean to say that I do not subscribe to a particular doctrine of morality (e.g. a religious one, or an ethnic one) and thus my argument against porn is not based on my Christian/Victorian or Calvinistic way of thinking.
Though if you must ascribe me a particular moral standpoint then let it be feminism. I am a feminist and so that’s how I look at things.
And @Ladyfingers, if condescension is your only tactic when challenging an argument that says more about you than it does about me. I’m finished studying actually, thanks for asking.
It’s really simple. Why put porn on TV? If you love it so much, it’s always been available from wherever you rent/buy it. Don’t come with this nonsense about how beneficial it is to society and the rest of the rubbish you are talking about. You watch pornography because of your own sexual desires. No one is stopping you from watching it, we’re just saying that it shouldn’t come into our houses because we don’t want it there. Just continue getting it from wherever you are getting it. Simple.
I have a lot of respect for your reasons but I don’t think it’s as simple as either side makes it out. Sexual violence in our country stems from many things, not least of which strong patriarchal attitudes all round, general misogyny and gender inequality. Ours is also a violent society in general, for many reasons.
I believe that a lot of kids are exposed to sex too early and in the wrong ways - often via abuse, or seeing adults perform sexual acts in crowded situations where privacy is lacking. Children also see lots of violence done to women.
I will also mention what I said in another debate on this issue: I read a study where sex offenders were shown “normal” porn, and porn where force was involved. They “responded” more to the force scenes. Don’t have full detail now but the researchers’ conclusion was that these people have deviant pleasure associations and that the porn is not causal.
Another study showed similar stuff to “normal” guys and then asked them to rate their attitudes to women in a non-sexual abuse situation. The guys exposed to the sexually violent film had less sympathy. So the sexually violent film did desensitise them to violence in general, but the “normal” porn did not. So it appears there is a complex link between graphic sexual violence and violence, but not necessarily between porn and violence.
I think society needs a lot more help than banning a DSTV channel.
The proposed channel is a pay channel - if you don’t want to watch it don’t pay for it, it will not be accessible to you or your kids! Morally, imposing your narrow beliefs on me and removing my choice is worse than any of your proposed reasons, all of which lack any evidence and are purely your own opinions. If I believed religion was harmful (and if I chose I could find a great deal of evidence to support that view), should I be allowed to demand that it is not shown on any television channel? Do you really want to live in that sort of a nanny-state?
I am a woman, I watch porn, I have never felt exploited, I have never believed that it was a reflection of how I should behave in a sexual relationship and I have never felt pressured by anyone to perform as a porn star. People watch knowing that it is simply a film. I have never formed racial opinions based on it, nor have I ever felt that it inspired rape, molestation or any other violent non-consensual sexual act and I can say with confidence that nobody I know who watches porn has turned into a sexual criminal as a result of watching.
I truly think that the puritans who are so against this channel have their own insecurities that lead them to this moral outrage against a proposed channel - perhaps it is your own relationships that need examining.
It is the presumption that we need to be boxed into a padded safe world by people who decide the content of our experience that is at issue here.
Porn is here and always will be. It is up to us as a society how we process it. Ban it and make it a dirty evil like the church has done for centuries and it will go underground. Open up to it, watch it, debate it and choose what you like and we will dictate what is made and what ethics are displayed.
By having the attitude that all people should prescribe to your moral code, you are basically claiming to know better for all. Thats bullshit. Sorry but it is. I will not have you or any other human being telling me what I must watch or how I must think. The only boundary I recognise is the hurt of others by my actions. If my watching porn truly hurt other human beings then I would refrain. It does not.
If anything, it is the prudish, outdated behaviour that is displayed by many on the topic that hurts others, supresses thought and feelings and causes the harm you seek to avoid.
Again, you seem to have watched porn and yet are happy to try hard to prevent others from having the opportunity to watch it and make up their own minds. That is sensorship worthy of the NAT’s and the Soviets. It has no place in our new world.
John Kalala - I can barely understand the point you are making because you are quite unable to express yourself on sexual matters. I suppose you are trying to say that you have never masturbated to porn and that you value real human contact far more than porn fantasy. I feel there is room for both in this world. If you don’t, jolly good for you. Where you lose me, though, is where you seem to think that everybody must feel the same as you do. Please don’t presume to tell others what we should be doing. Who are you exactly to decide for us?
Jenny - If porn was mainstream, great directors would make it. It would be much less stereotypical and crass than some of it is and could overcome all of your objections. Only our attitude as a society prevents that. We force it underground and allow the seedy element to control it.
If we can agree that sex itself is not dirty then anybody anti-porn has no argument at all. Porn will evolve to our expectation and attitude as it always has done. Gustav Corbet’s “Origin of the World” hangs in the Musee d’Orsay in Paris alongside Picasso and Miro.
Porn or art?
If you decide art, then you have no case for porn for it is simply the reviled modern version. Film or photo is the medium Corbet would probably have chosen had it existed in his time.
I don’t watch rugby, cricket, cooking, travel, blah, blah. I only switch on to what I really enjoy - soccer, nature [I mean REAL nature], gospel, music. So even if DsTV WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to put a porn channel, I wouldn’t bother raising a finger on the remote control. But then that’s me. My boys? Umm, these are teenagers and I don’t even know what they watch on INTERNET, bt would certainly get concerned if i SAW them logged onto DsTV’s porn channel. Child lock? Maybe. Moral guardian? Me? No! Got better things to do. But probably their mother would STRANGLE them!
Great article! I’m glad to see that some men have come on this board and agreed that pornography is damaging. It’s revealing to me that those on this board in favour of porn are overwhelmingly men and that those against porn are overwhelmingly women. Just this observation alone should make us think seriously about its damaging effects!
I haven’t subscribed to DSTV yet. Most channels of the “prescribed” bouquet, especially the religious ones, don’t interest me. If I could subscribe ten or so channels individually I would consider. Porn then simply would not be my choice, like Mickey Mouse and Rap. Let others have the “Wank-o-Rama” in their bouquet. So far religion has caused more damage than the weirdest blue movies.
Simply:
Porn is tasteless and tacky and reduces one of our drives to a mindless comedy.
Might as well watch people chew gum with an open mouth and say - ‘this is eating’; it’s just a parody and a joke.
I’m NOT a prude but I’m in favour of taste (yeah, and romance)
Porn has its place, but not on SA TV.
If you want to watch it go buy a DVD or magazine.
@ R
Interesting to hear that Scandinavia has become so prude. This is a huge change in their mindset from the ’60s to the ’90s.
Jen Dear, I understand your points. However I would like you to focus on the most widely accessible porn which is on mobile. Why dont you petition the government to block all cellphones from searching & accessing porn. DSTV is a premium means where I would think ppl who can afford can be responsible as well.
Moral prudery in general is a bad idea, as is unhealthy view points towards sexuality.
I am not going to bother to pick apart the absurdity of this post as its been done already.
I do think these kinds of zealous and badly adjusted view points belong in a southern baptist fringe church or some ultra right wing feminist movement or some other unhealthy forum for the mentally or emotionally handicapped.
‘The problem with morals is that they are so relative…’
have you any idea how dangerous that statement and thought is? i presume you have an inkling, since you say morality can be used to justify anything. and indeed it is. but not because morality is relative, but because people are self-serving bastards a lot of the time.
morality is context related, sure. however, it is not relative. that is post-modern garbage, and for a self-proclaimed feminist i would expect you to think harder about matters of morality.
seriously, jennifer, that is a profoundly disturbing comment.
The commercial value in porn is the same as the commercial value in street drugs. Both are addictive and serve as a money-spinner for the low-life of this world.
Giving pornography a platform alongside other forms of entertainment is the same as adding a stripper bar next to the kiddies play area of a Spur steakhouse. Dont forget to bring the kids.
Do we really need it, and does Multichoice really need to profit from sleaze. That is the question we, and Multichoice need to ask of ourselves.
I strongly disagree. Being COMPLETELY open about all aspects of sexuality is what will liberate women, not avoiding the subject. Men will find porn whether it’s provided by multichoice or not.
@R - thanks for the update on the S’navian countries. I have been impressed by those countries’ long records of true equality for women. So a better argument is that despite porn being readily available in those countries, it has not resulted in a socially-accepted value of degradation and oppression of women, which is one of the many facile arguments used to preach against porn.
The ‘moral’ comments generally seem to stem from a 2,000 year history of control and oppression by men and religion over sex and procreation, thus legitimising control and oppression of women.
Best answer to everyone? - don’t watch it if you don’t want to and stop thinking you ‘know best’ for others.
And if you are a Christian and use a religious argument as your excuse to control and judge other people, then remember your own religious credo - don’t judge others.
“?Studies of men who had seen X-rated movies found that they were significantly more tolerant and accepting of women than those men who didn’t see those movies, and studies by other investigators—female as well as male—essentially found similarly that there was no detectable relationship between the amount of exposure to pornography and any measure of misogynist attitudes.”
From article whose thesis is: “…as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down”
You can barely understand the point I am making - which is, to repeat: “To think we can be really sexually satisfied without embracing another human being is so dumb.”
That is your problem, Grant. Your understanding is so limited. If you don’t get that then you really don’t get it at all. It is time for you to re-examine what a human being is, and why there is the African saying:”It takes a village to raise a child.” Sexual fulfilment without engaging with another human being , is not really real. It may be lust or it may be titillation; but is very incomplete.
Vicarious behaviour is never to be encouraged. Porn, in my experience, is for those who are too lazy, too dumb or too cowardly to attempt a real relationship, which, in my considerable experience, is much more fulfilling.
But then you may enjoy communing with a flat screen.
Our sexuality is an intrinsic part of being a human. It is sadly in the nature of individual, and groups of, humans to misuse intrinsic parts of our nature. However the correct response to that misuse is not to put a general clamp on the misused aspect. Historically a general clamping down on sexual expression has been the approach that has been followed by society. This does not solve the problem of misuse, as we know, it just creates an income stream for criminals. Charles Wesley the founder of Methodism said,why should good tunes be reserved for bawdy drinking songs and he used those very same tunes for truly uplifting hymns. Similarly why should our sexual expression become the preserve of criminals and pornographers?
Society should reclaim sexual expression from the rubbish dump we have tried to consign it to. Would it not be great to see the best and most creative amongst us, who feel so inclined, turning to the creation of what is now known as porn but which they will be able turn into works of art which will uplift us all. This will not prevent the misuse of sexual expression but it will not leave it just to the low lifes of this world.
‘Teenage boys watching hours of internet pornography every week are treating their girlfriends like sex objects’
Among today’s teenage girls, the chaperone has made a comeback and is not being forced on girls by controlling adults worried about honour.
The ‘third wheel’ has been re-invented by the girls themselves because they want protection from the sexual demands of their boyfriends.
When I spoke to many teenage girls, they told me these demands are both ‘disturbing and upsetting’, and they are certain they’re being fuelled by what their boyfriends are watching online: hard-core, explicit porn.
‘Boys just want us to do all the stuff they see the porn stars do,’ one 16-year-old girl told me. ‘It’s as if we have to pretend we are in a movie.
This deeply worrying trend is finally starting to be noticed by those in authority.
Psychologist Dr Linda Papadopoulos has just published a government report into the sexualisation of children, and is certain that exposure to porn is having an adverse affect on the lives of today’s teenagers.
‘My research has left me extremely concerned,’ she says. ‘A recent survey showed that 54 per cent of boys found porn “really inspiring” in terms of sexual performance. This worries me, because of the nature of the material they are now watching’.
The five reasons you cite sound rather familiar to anyone following Jacob Zuma’s personal life.
1) Zuma’s sex life displays both men and women in a way that creates a limited understanding of sex which is harmful to both men and women. Showers anyone?
2)Zuma’s sex life portrays unequal sexual relations as ’sexy’ and thus puts men in a position of power and women in a position of sexual submission. Is your daughter free?
3) Zuma’s sex life creates an idea of women as hyper-sexual or ‘gagging for it’. Was this not raised during the rape trial where he couldn’t walk away from a woman.
4) Zuma’s sex life casts some groups as more sexual than others. Any Zulu men feeling slandered or otherwise by Zumas cultural claims?
5) The women in Zuma’s sex life are often coerced into performing? Sure he was acquitted, but there sure are some power issues involved in his sex life and sex with friends daughters.
Maybe porn on TV is better than the pornographic president.
Jennifer: you don’t think it’s immensely condescending to tell people what’s good or bad for them to watch?
What none of the imbeciles debating this topic has brought up is that MultiChoice decoders have (and have always had)parental lockout codes. If you’re too stupid to lock your device to prevent your children seeing content you deem inappropriate for them, then you’re probably too stupid to have children.
Well, this article has certainly prompted a lot of comment, which I have not had the time or inclination to read. In case anyone is interested in my opinion, however, I have one point that needs making: The arguments that Jennifer makes are all valid arguments against porn (whether or not you agree with them). Hopwever, that is not really the issue. Our government, under the auspices of the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, has already decided that porn should be allowed, subject to certain exceptios (child porn, violent porn etc). The question at hand is that, given that this has been decided, is their any reason why DSTV should not be allowed to broadcast it? That is the question that she has not addressed.
Jen has her own opinion and she shared it with us. She also motivated her opinion. She is not ‘telling’ anyone what they may or may not do, and is definately not ‘immensely condecending’ by expressing her beliefs.
It is rather immensely condecending of you to deny her her opinion on the matter.
I think that it’s bad to watch the abuse of women. And I’m not ashamed to say that.
IF (and all you band waggon jumpers just hold yourselves back) porn displays the abuse of women and IF porn is mimicing sexual relations that are harmful to women, then I’m happy to say DON’T WATCH IT.
If you want to watch it and can live with yourself, that’s your choice.
But, Thanks Rod of Sydney, I am happy. No porn on DSTV. YAY!
There has been some really active debate online since DStv announced they had sent out a survey to find out people’s reaction to starting a subscription based porn channel. Bear in mind that this isn’t the first survey they have sent out as they are constantly engaging with their subscribers to find out what they would like to see on DStv.
There has been some really active debate online since DStv announced they had sent out a survey to find out people’s reaction to starting a subscription based porn channel. Bear in mind that this isn’t the first survey they have sent out as they are constantly engaging with their subscribers to find out what they would like to see on DStv.
@ladyfinger…ever so respectfully, aren’t you being condescending calling us all imbeciles and people who cannot lock up electronic devices too stupid to have children…. knowing how to press buttons is not an indication of intelligence but exposure to technology. Can you tile a house, design an amazing garden, fix a car, direct a blockbuster, invent penicillin? and one for the ladies, bake an unflopped souffle? those all require intelligence that has nothing to do with learning how to press buttons. by your view players of video games must be the brightest contributors to humanity.
Why ban the DSTV channel? Surely the intenet is the worst offender in distributing porn? Shouldn’t we be trying to shut down the internet then before we all become damaged goods?
@jean-Michel. You can do your best to block sites on the internet - the challenge however is global. The choice was, do we add a local challenge with another media to this? One has to do what one can for kids.
Yet here you sit typing in an internet forum, using a computer with a keyboard and mouse setup with over 100 buttons.
This luddite excuse of “well, normal people…” is hogwash. If you can operate your MultiChoice decoder (press “on” , change channel, look at menu, etc.) then operating the parental controls is hardly rocket science. You just enter the menu and set them, where they are clearly marked. You might as well make excuses for bad drivers (”not his fault he ran over a child, driving is hard!”). If you bring a gun into your home, you should know how to secure it, yes? Come on.
I also resent the hackneyed, Dworkin-esque idea that porn is always abusive, entirely filled with junkies and desperate victims of trafficking. It’s extremely patronising to women, in my opinion, to insist that anyone who chooses to make money doing something that’s distasteful to tertiary-educated, bourgeois sensibilites is automatically some variety of pitiful wretch.
All comments must be approved by our editors, click here to read the editorial guidelines for comments. Please allow some time for our editors to approve your comment after posting.
profile
Jennifer is a young feminist, activist and advocate for women's rights.
She is a big fan of debate and discussion, and always keen for a good constructive argument. Her interests like with all issues relating to the body and to the many ways that government and society regulate our bodies.
She likes talking about uncomfortable issues so that they become a little easier to negotiate in our day to day life.
She has started a women's writing project called 'My First Time' which can be accessed using the link below. She is thrilled with the results.
She's working at Rape Crisis Cape Town Trust as the researcher, loving the feminist vibe and is working on bits and bobs here and there.
My First Time A writing project that has blossomed into a blog. Over 80 women have written stories for me on their 'first time' experiences that have impacted their lives. You can read their stories and comment here.
Rape Crisis Cape Town Trust An incredible organisation working to achieve justice for women, and to provide support to rape survivors and their loved ones.
Victim Empowerment South Africa A blog about the positive side of being a victim of crime, how victims can empower themselves and what the law and policy says to support them.
I read with horror the reports of more gang rape in the DRC over the past weekend. Many women and young men were raped by soldiers (of a form), with g...
On Saturday night I made my way in a Rikki taxi to attend what I expected to be an Afrikaans sokkie-jol in the heart of a suburb of Cape Town. We pull...
I was reading an article about the rights that victims of crime have in terms of getting compensated after they have been to court. In this article, a...
A lot of the law around children requires ordinary citizens who know about child abuse or molestation to report it. It is in fact illegal to know abou...
Loading ...
Oh god help us when the young and liberated join the ranks of the conservatives. My reasons to counter yours:
1)Giant members exist. Imagine your shock if you had never ever seen one and a guy whips one out. Are you disappointed that all men don’t look like Brad Pitt? Same argument. We are not idiots. Its a movie. Lack of porn creates a far more limited understanding.
2)Crap. Lots of porn shows a women dominating or women on women or women trapping and abusing a man. Watch more porn.
3)Yes porn shows women who are in charge and sexually liberated and very keen to have sex. Your point?
4)Again, crap. Watch more porn. I have seen porn with a white guy that made your description of a black guy look tame. Its all out there. It actually helps to debunk the bs that most people believe about different races. You can see all types and colours doing exactly the same thing.
5)It is precisely because of Victorian attitudes like yours that this is the case. Legalise prostitution, drop your Calvanistic ideas about sex and allow it to normalise and this seedy element will be replaced by proper professional and ethical operators controlled by law. You and all the church-going prudes are keeping it in the gutter.
Gay porn, S&M…why not. Its out there and I want to know about it. Rape is illegal so unless it is acted, no. Cont.
(Report abuse)