I had a horrible flashback yesterday of this terrible sociology course that I took while at university. The course material and lecturer were stimulating enough, and the course was focused on gender, so it was really right up my alley. However, each session my temperature and the acerbity of my tone would slowly rise as this inane hamhead of a (sorry chaps but he called himself this) man went on random rants about the various ills that women caused men. My favourite example (and least favourite experience) was a lecture we had that somehow was steered towards sex and the negotiation of sexual encounters.
The delightful conversation went like this:
Moron: Women use sex as a manipulative tool in their relationships with men.
Me (temperature tepid): Have you actually had sex? I mean other than with yourself.
Moron: Of course I’ve had sex. And there is nothing worse than when you’re in the mood and your woman won’t put out. She’s holding back on you, because she wants something or you’ve done something.
Me (temperature bathwater warm): Have you considered that she just actually does not want to have sex with you because you say things like that. In fact, because you actually have thoughts like that.
Another woman in the class, who I will sadly label “Sell Out” hereafter: Moron’s right you know. We do do that. We use sex and we only have it when we get our own way. I do hold back when I want him to do something.
Me (I must admit that my face is going quite red now, not from the heat of the day, but with infuriation): So you say no, so that he’ll do what you want?
Moron: I told you. All women only have sex when they think they can get something. You people never just have sex. You’re always after something, or to put me under pressure, or to hold back from me because you think it gives you power.
Me (sizzling with the desire to phone this giant chop’s parents and tell them that they are wasting money educating him): Unfortunately moron I must believe the following things based on what you’ve said. 1. You must never have sex because you are so painful to listen to that she’s probably already asleep before you’ve got your pants off. 2. Women do not hold back on sex to torture men and Sell Out, if they are involved in this sort of game playing then they should consider whether they actually want to have sex with that person in the first place.
At which point our lecturer, bless his blushing heart, ended the lecture being the only other male in the room and probably trying with all his might to avoid being drawn into this increasingly acidic interaction.
I was thinking about sex yesterday and how important a role it plays in most relationships. It plays a role in sustainability. It plays a role in happy hormones and sleep-filled nights. It is just generally a great way to spend your time. So I think that when people say no to sex, it’s important to think the following:
1. They probably are not playing some mind torturing game trying to withhold nookie from you so that your balls turn blue or breasts explode with the sheer force of your desire. They undoubtedly have a reason for not wanting to have sex.
2. This reason should be respected.
3. They mean no.
4. In case you are particularly dense and haven’t understood me thus far, they don’t want to have sex with you.
The amazing thing about this is that there is no “you people” and there most certainly for the love of eggs is no such thing as “your woman“. The sooner you realise this the better.
Perhaps if you start thinking this way there will be more women who do want to have sex with you. Then again, maybe not. It’s their choice after all.
I just saw the heading for this one and instantly started the obvious complaint-answer – ‘women say no to sex because they don’t feel like having any right now, thanks, grrrrr’. I only came to read it to pick a fight with some idiot. So until someone provides me that idiot and the idiotic article I was looking for, I shan’t be putting out.
That’s that then.
Oh for the days of clubs (wooden ones) and drags (by the hair.)
Women want sex as much as men do. Is that a fair statement?
Men have more of a physical need and less of an emmotional need for sex and visa versa for women. Is this true?
Apart from sex between married, or long term couples, initiating first time sex with a woman is difficult because society would label her as a ‘slut’, and she therefore declines even though she may want it more than the man. An aroused woman loses this inhibition if the man is sufficiently skillful enough to manage this event and remove the ‘slut’ issue.
Its all just a game.
Sex is a very interesting subject with us human species, even those of us who dont posses the prowess are quick to comment on this subject.Fact of the matter is men and women dont have the same hormones.All I need to say is guys be creative cause even the word “sex” is just alarming.Women are suckers for romance, so if she declines there is something you are not doing right or you are just not right for her.
Guess the answer is to teach all males from primary school upwards that no means NO. I had women teachers in primary school and nowdays at least half of high school teachers are female so get them to instruct their captive receptive boys what no means – ladies the solution is in your hands, so Do don’t just talk.
Brent
Great article. Perhaps we should look at some of the reasons why women say NO eg. How has she been treated emotionally and mentally by her partner? Does he expect her to be enticed by the bulge in his pants or does he realise that there is so much more to it for a woman.
At times we seem almost incompatible, men and women.
This view by the author, is very simplistic skewed, and overly in defense of feminism. There’s no way that she can speak for every woman, and deny a fact raised by various men, who have experienced this type of denial.
It is a reality that some women will with-hold sex for some reason, maybe because she is angry at the time, or in fact uses it as a weapon to get her way.
And then would very merrily indulge the next time she is in the mood. And beware your soul if you try and with-hold!
This is just Jeniffer’s views, based on her own experince. She’s silly to make believe that she writes on behalf of all women. Women withold sex for many reasons, one of which IS punishment! It does not mean that a woman who say no today might not want to “jump” you the next day or when her moods change in a few hours!
Touche !
Maybe our moms can teach their sons to have more sensitivity that the cavemen had …………..
When does no mean yes? LOL is that enough ammo for an argument Kit?
Well sorry to take Sellout and Moron’s side here but anyone who believes that women do not understand and engage in the transactional nature of sex is blind to the true nature of our species. Sex, by nature, generally involves men asking and women allowing. Men biologically are triggered to want sex, in general, more often than women do.
Demand, therefore, exceeds supply of a scarce resource controlled primarily by women. That scarcity gives it value and with value comes the possibility of trade and a market is created. Were women more likely to want sex more often than men it would be the other way around. It is not.
The manipulation of this scarcity is obvious from the massive prostitution industry right through to the well known ‘headache’ which uncannily appears when women are not happy with their men. Again, were women more likely to want more sex more often than men, our entire society would be in mirror image with men selling their bodies on street corners to women not getting enough at home.
The reasons for women wanting less sex in general are not that clear and and may be biological as well as social and differ from individual to individual. Not sure there but the fact remains that on average it is obvious that this is the case.
In the classic stereotypical date, a man is expected to pay for the dinner and may be rewarded with a kiss or some nookie. Transaction all the way.
Gyvcer and co: so you use romance to game a woman into sex? I’m not surprised – heard a guy on the radio recently claim he made promises of love to get a woman into bed, then felt trapped by his promises.
Lesson: good sex is not gamed – whether by women or men. Good sex happens when you really, really want to be with that person, ALL of that person, and can imagine waking up the next morning and wanting to stick around for breakfast. You don’t have to want to be with them forever, but you’re a fool if you have sex because it will manipulate a guy into doing something for you; and you’re a fool if you babble romantic rubbish you don’t mean to get sex.
And I speak as one who had a lot of sex in the post-pill pre-AIDS era. Nothing wrong with a lot of joyous sex!
Guys what just happened. What was this article all about? Please help?
You see, women will have sex anytime but only with the one they are willing to. I have seen badly treated women running after their hot-headed losers like you can’t believe.
Also, other social dynamics come in to play, yes some women will tolarate having sex just because they will get something out at the end, so you can’t just dismis the fact that we do have quasi-prostitutes in our formal relationship settings.
Otherwise we wouldn’t be having so many prostitutes all over, even in countries where this practice is illigal such as South Africa.
When you are in a long-term, sexually intimate relationship, then a simple “no” is not going to cut it, particularly over the course of months and years. Witholding sex in such a relationship is cruel, confusing and ultimately destructive.
I am further dismayed by the implication by many of the commentors that it is the Man’s Job to initiate sex. Appalling and damaging point of view to hold in the 21st century.
dunno… this whole “women want sex just as much as men” is all very plausible, but:
i’ve met several women who have very plausibly and believably assured me that the fact that they’ve been single for over a year now (sometimes 2 or 3) and have not had sex during that time, is not a problem for them in the particular period that they’re going through. They were quite happy, content, etc. Show me one man in his 20s or 30s (as these women were) who would say that it doesn’t bother him that he’s not had sex in years!
What gives: were these women lying, or is there a difference after all in how much men and women need/want sex?
Foom: great statement there but you also need to acknowledge that as much as women enjoy sex and not up to man to initiate it, there are stereotypes centred around it. Some men finds it a bit of a turn off for a woman to actually set off sex and thus regarded as either too liberated, wild and men hardly control such females.
Yes, Jennifer when a woman says NO she means it, sex is not based on external motives, one does it because one needs it after all it stimulate ones body…
Hear hear! I can’t stand the accusation that women use sex as a tool of power – as that implies that a) women want sex less than men and b) that men are always the initiators of sex: implications that are complete fallacies! Of course, sexual desire waxes and wanes and is different to every individual, but most women I know enjoy sex and aren’t afraid to initiate. Come on, its 2010 – lets throw out the Victorian-esque sexual script of men being the active initiators and women being the begrudging recievers of sexual overtures: its just as harmful to men’s sexual enjoyment as it is to women’s.
Foom, well put. I asked the same question of a therapist, a woman, years ago and she had the same outmoded view. As it happens, my partner had serious sexual issues, among others, and never initaited anything. I gave and gave and got very little in return – it played a large role in the destruction of our relationship…
There are lots of reasons women may not want sex and some of them may not even be conscious. Sex is invasive of the female body. Men need to consider the MEANING of sex for women given the context of physical invasion.
For men, the action is external (erection) and release (ejaculation). For women the action is deeply internal and could result in pregnancy–than which there is nothing MORE INVASIVE, Chaps!
Men can have sex and nothing changes. For women, everything can change as a result of having sex. And it can happen every time a woman has sex–unless she is already pregnant.
Female contraception can fail and most men resist using condoms which can also fail. Because of the internal placement of her sex organs and their proximity to the urethra, a woman usually wants to prepare herself for sex with a cleansing of that area. Men often resent this and say they don’t care. This is NOT re-assuring to women! Nor is it “flattering”! Yet, many women ‘give in’ because they don’t want to offend the man–or because they fear him.
Pleading a ‘headache’ has become a polite way to say “No. I am not in the mood for sex right now.” Sex is rarely the objective for women; Love is the objective.
Perhaps some women ‘hold out’ and ‘want something’ in exchange for sex. But that suggests an unhealthy relationship such as Grant describes above.
Sex should never be “transactional”. How demeaning!
Rob, I think it depends on the individual. Perhaps women are more often brought up not to think of sex or that sex is for marriage only. My ex was brought up by a prude of a mother and it showed. My current partner has a sex drive equal to mine and I think there are plenty of women out there like her.
Why do I always find “you feminists” so damn sexy?
Some men just need to rethink their priorities, rob. Sex is the cheapest and best cure for most headaches, but if you are alone, you could give yourself a headache lusting after the impossible. A cold shower and a difficult crossword usually does the trick. Witholding sex? No woman who initiates sex when the rugby’s about to start, is likely to get it! So why should I be labelled because I’d prefer to be on time for work?
i know now that when my wife says no she means it, i’ve had not choice but to ultimately concede to the intentions of women issues education, and i’m saying women as human beings in their own right, as individuals,
i do however feel that this subject/ heading is deceiving, i was hoping for a more technical insight inside a woman, besides discussions about what she’d have gone through physically and mentally during the day, i help with most of those as well of cause,
You and your lecturer are on opposite extremes of the argument. truth is,woman do hold out 4 a whole range of reasons. For instance, I’ve bin turned down because the lady felt like it was too soon-its a reason.And in this specific case she did it so i work a little harder at it. I appreciate your articles but your feminist back ground makes you underplay some realities in an attempt to either protect women or to advance female-centric views. point of it all: i understand why you are angry, but it happens.So lets just treat each scenario on its merit.
Where do men get this notion of women ‘HOLDING OUT’ on them? Look at what you are saying, men! “HOLDING OUT” is used to describe a situation in which one party is ‘withholding’ something that the other party believes is RIGHTFULLY HIS.
Let’s get this straight, guys: when you have a relationship with a woman you do NOT acquire possession of her body. She is under NO OBLIGATION to ‘give’ you sex on demand! No one has sexual ‘RIGHTS’ over another in any relationship! You may have made a mutual promise not to have sex with anyone else but that does not mean that the woman OWES the man sex in exchange for his ‘fidelity’. Sex is not payment for ‘playing by the rules’, guys!
I think the truth is that men use sex as an escape–rather like computer games or porn sites. It’s all an escape from self-induced boredom! Here’s a secret, guys: Women are not here to relieve your boredom. We have lives that revolve around other things than your dicks. Instead of cultivating your gonads, try using that neglected organ between your ears. Find out what’s happening in far reaches of the universe, research a question that matters like what makes life worth living with less sex so you have something interesting to talk about! Maybe if you’re less boring, your partner might be more inclined to say ‘yes’. Maybe you wouldn’t even have to ask,,,
@Jennifer
If you wouldn’t mind, I would like to know your take on my comments in the Feb 5th posting above. I’m curious as to this view sits with a member of a much younger generation. The notion of men seeing sex as either an entitlement or a REWARD for fidelity raises my hackles. What about you?
again the feminist reasoning, and very white for that matter.
African women are trained to value their body and its potentialities and their multiple gifts and obtain compensation for them – have you heard of lobola, the supreme recognition of woman’s worth (dont understand why feminists object to it, they should rather want to generalize it )? from there to make sex conditionnal on a new dress or hairdo or schoolfees for a brother and the like is not a long way …. until at least sufficient trust in the partner -that he will heed request even in cooler circumstances- is instilled.
That is probably fair play as they know our priorities and they can do without it more than we can.
Fikezolo