A drive on a weekday morning around the township of Alexandra in Johannesburg will reveal to you the real face of unemployment in South Africa. On the corners of the many avenues in this sprawling township where I grew up, young men and women roam the streets. Some play dice and morabaraba and some are drinking beer, while others plan where they can go to steal in order to have something to eat in the evening.
Stop and ask them why they are not working. Most will tell you they have degrees or diplomas, but can’t find a job. Some have little or no work experience, while others have lost hope and have given up looking. Looking at these people last week, I started to think about my own life a few years back when I used to stand on those street corners hopeless and without a job.
I had a degree and did some short courses afterwards. I indiscriminately knocked on doors of potential employers. I wanted anything that could take me off the streets and enable me to live the life I’d always dreamt of. Everywhere I went the words “No jobs/ Awukho umsebenzi” became a familiar sound. And the only piece jobs I managed to get didn’t last for more than five days. I did everything from till-handling to packing beers at a nearby tavern, to distributing flyers at the traffic lights during peak hours. But I was happy. I had something to do, something to keep me off those avenue corners and out of trouble.
When you’ve been unemployed for some time, you are willing to do anything, even if it means not getting paid, just so you can get experience and be employable. When former president Thabo Mbeki launched the Alexandra Renewal Project in 2001, I started writing stories about the project for its newsletter — for free. Luckily, I was spotted by a Media24 publication. The rest is history.
I remembered this after driving around Alexandra last week and seeing the number of unemployed young people on the streets. The numbers have increased. Actually, they seemed to have doubled, even tripled. It made me wonder when this vicious circle will ever end.
Recent statistics tell us that one in four people is unemployed. And 72% of them are young people below the age of 35, like the ones I met in Alexandra. Does the government care about these unemployed youth? I believe it does, which is why in 2009 President Jacob Zuma announced the R5-billion youth wage subsidy to reverse the catastrophes of youth unemployment by enticing employers with incentives to hire youngsters, teach them skills and equip them with job experience. That sounded like a good plan.
But four years after the announcement by Zuma and the rubber stamp from finance minister Pravin Gordhan, the subsidy plan still hasn’t taken off. Recent developments suggest that this subsidy is supported by both government and business, but is being held up by the ruling party’s ally, Cosatu, which argues that the subsidy will displace existing jobs and only enrich employers. How? Cosatu’s explanation is not clear. The Democratic Alliance, which a recently confronted Cosatu by marching to its offices, estimates that 400 000 jobs that could have gone to the youth are lost. To prove a point, the DA has introduced a similar subsidy — “Work and Skill for 100 000″ — in the Western Cape, which it says has placed over 2000 first-time job seekers in six-month jobs, with about 70% securing full-time work.
Zuma said his government is not going to abandon the subsidy but has failed to give timelines. The DA thinks he’s toeing the line, and asked: “Are you allowing Cosatu to hold you to ransom because you want to be re-elected in Mangaung?”
To the youth, this politicking doesn’t address where their next meal will come from. All they care about is jobs and experience so that they can be employable.
I don’t buy Cosatu’s argument of young workers facing exploitation in the work place. The wage subsidy is going to be implemented within the framework of the labour laws which protect every worker. One may then ask why Cosatu is fighting so hard to block what looks like a wonderful policy.
The answer is easy: Cosatu doesn’t represent the unemployed. Cosatu represents those who are already employed. Cosatu doesn’t care if millions don’t have a jobs. If anything, Cosatu boss Zwelinzima Vavi is threatened that if new young workers, most of whom don’t like joining unions, join the job market, they will push out older members who form the core of Cosatu, and will weaken the federation.
It’s clear that Zuma is not going to act now. He is looking for a second term, so this would be a bad time to anger Cosatu. It’s also not clear when the National Economic Development and Labour Council (Nedlac), on which Cosatu sits, will make recommendations on the matter to cabinet. But unemployed young people cannot wait forever. This is no longer a battle between the DA and Cosatu. The youth formations need to stand up against the government and Cosatu and demand their jobs, without any fear of intimidation.
Countries in the Arab north of Africa underestimated the anger of the unemployed youth. The effects of that mistake are now well documented.
This article was first published in The Witness.
What COSATU cares about is “democratising Swaziland”.
What about “democratising Zimbabwe and Zululand and the rest of the Black Homelands”.
Instead of targetting the Brown Homeland, including by trying to reduce provinces.
The busing in of Xhosa into the Cape and the use of AA/BEE to deprive them of jobs in their own Homelands, while keeping all the Black Homelands still pristine Black, will go down as one of the most racist and despicable policies of history!
@ Isaac & Lyndall, Hear, hear!!
When you say “I don’t buy COSATU’s argument of young workers facing exploitation”, you make it clear that you have never bothered to read anything COSATU has said on the subject.
Their first complaint is that this is not about new jobs being created, but about existing workers being fired to make space for young people, who are supposedly going to receive training — but there is no guarantee of that, and meanwhile, though the young workers may be getting the jobs, the number of unemployed stays the same, so you don’t really change anything. (Chances are that the young workers will move into unskilled jobs, so won’t get real training.)
Their second complaint is that the young workers will be employed with low wages, no benefits and no job security. Obviously, if young people are prepared to face that, fair enough — but those are the conditions under which most young people are employed. However, firing people with higher wages, benefits and (former) security and replacing them with people who get none of that, is a step down the road towards the complete collapse of worker rights. (Since those young people will be unable to join unions, they will be in no position to improve their conditions of service.)
These sound like fair complaints. You can debate them. Falsifying COSATU’s complaints in order to make the wage subsidy look good suggests that you don’t have much of a case yourself.
@ The Creator: Firstly, no company worth its salt is going simply zap their older employees unless they want to deal with serious flak from the CCMA.
Secondly, the subsidy would cover the cost of employing extra staff. That’s why it’s called a subsidy.
Why would they not be allowed to join a union (assuming that they would)?
In South Africa Every One is looking after their Interests, they don’t care what purpose it serves.
Most of the world is still divided in “liberals” and “socialists” of some sort. Named “right”(ish) or “left”(ish). Governments -if not dictatorial-are the same.
The ANC -the SA struggle party after having outclassed all the other struggle people- is a mixture of the right and left flavors. The party knows it will be loosing the left support if it declares itself “right” of centre and vice versa. It cannot make a clear choice and keeps the balance by throwing bones to the left and by keeping the right, which includes its top men, happy.
Cosatu does not have the guts to break away, so can the SACP not break away from the alliance without losing their influence (power) and some interesting jobs for its top bosses.
The traditional “right” and “left” cannot sleep in one bed without compromising their principles….only in South Africa can this continue by lies, half truths and not fullfilled promises from government until the bomb really explodes. It is called “revolution”!!
Let the subsidy bring back apprenticeships with day release to college- we need young skilled blue collar workers
I have already pointed out that the “last in, first out” rule of staff reductions and redundancies would protect the older employees anyhow.
For many of these kids, a spell of working is essential to their completing theoretical studies and obtaining qualifications. Most would be far happier to move on, thereafter, if they can find better jobs.
I started working in the 70s: long hours, no overtime and chores like making coffee, sweeping the odd floor, etc. In the 80s, I met kids who begged to work for nothing, just to gain experience from a reputable firm. In the 90s, when the JSE crashed, retrenched workers would happily work for 10% of the going rate, just to have something coming in. All white youngsters, I add.
I’m not suggesting that race counts on this score, just that one must sometimes be prepared to forgo Utopia to achieve what one really wants.
If Unionised workers won’t be working for the same low salaries, why should the two conflict? These are short-term contracts.
@Lennon,
Exactly! Cosatu’s arguments are ludicrous. In many kinds of job, it takes years to become very proficient. Even in agriculture, wrongly believed to be work for the unskilled, it takes years for a farm worker to be highly knowledgeable and highly productive. No sane employer will jettison trained workers in favor of the untrained.
I am reminded of a strike at TEK in around 1990 or so. Striking Black workers were fired, and replaced by untrained Whites. Quality levels sank, costs increased, the co. could not meet it’s local and export requirements. It was forced, through business reasons, to rehire it’s skilled workers.
Thanks Isaac. I found the article very informative. You hear about unemployment. This gave me a real feel for it.
I found Lekota’s criticism of the Youth Subsidy totally depressing. We all hoped that Cope would prove a new and intelligent alternative to the ANC.
Lekota has confused lack of education with lack of jobs. There are highly educated people in Africa and the rest of the third world with no jobs as well as people with degrees from the Sorbonne working in menial jobs like as waiters, and there are unskilled and uneducated people all over the west who DO have jobs!
It is ECONOMIC policy which creates new businesses and therefore new jobs.
Lekota wants the 5 billion to go to education? What for? We already overspend on a totally dysfunctional education system – why throw away another 5 billion rand?
Lekota wants every family to have an educated child – and HOW will education guarentee them employment with the wrong economic policies in place?
Can “The Creator” live up to his/her name and tell us what solution he/she would propose for this horrible problem of unemployment. It is so much easier to criticize, than to create a solution.
It is so sad here in Cape Town to see every street corner with hopefuls pointing their finger in the air. I don’t know how they are able to exercise such patience.
Cosatu represents the employed, maybe the unemployed should get together and create their own organisation. Can you imagine that would certainly shake the ANC up. Perhaps a new job for motor mouth Malema? He would qualify being on the unemployed list by now.
A youth wage subsidy should be one of a group of initiatives/tactics that should tackle our unemployment challenge. Education is currently a devastating contributor to joblessness since it has been dumped down by this government and its alliance partner COSATU. This has to be sorted ASAP. The beneficiaries of this disastrous education should be reorientated in terms of their value system, trained in at least three vocational skills (3 – 6 months), e.g. plumbing, tiling, basic administrative, etc. and be given work experience in these fields. We can have a critical mass within 18 months should we not somehow find a reason to tender this out at an exorbitant rate to a tender boys.
Older, retrenched and recently retired employees should mentor these youngsters while the army – if it shares the patriotic values of discipline and hard work – can play a key role in re orientating the value system from entitlement to self reliance, pride and self respect.
We need a paradigm towards self reliance where the individual, by virtue of his/her enterprise and industriousness can ensure their own gainful employment because of their obvious value add. It is the learners from ex model C schools and those few previously disadvantaged schools that have been able to maintain good educational standards despite this sea of mediocrity that are sort out and remain first in line when prospective employers seek to employ.
Tragically, the powers that be will not listen!!
NO JOBS is a result of the wrong economic and labour policies – NOT anything to do with education.
There are NO JOBS for the educated as well as for the uneducated, for prisoners trying to rehabilitate, or young people trying to get into the job market.
The ideas of Lekota AND Nelson Mandela that eductaion gives you a job are over a century out of date.
Education does not even necessarily give you more income – there are plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, chefs earning more money than doctors or university professors, IF they work hard, have a work ethic, and establish a reputation.
BUT in the democracies of the West there are jobs both for the educated asnd skilled AND for the uneducated and unskilled. Because they do not have this communist ideal that all must earn the same – both the lazy and the hard working, both the criminal and the honest man!
south african political leaders,help the youth getting jobs!,otherwise:they may -kick you out of your political jobs!!
Suddenly the ANC has found 12 billion rand for a “job seekers fund”. They might as well seek for unicorns or fairies! What is the point in seeking for jobs which don’t exist?
And 12 billion rand is twelve years allocation by the ANC for puchase of farmland!
@Isaac, I agree with Creator, I dont think that you have interrogated or researched Cosatu’s response.I am quite disappointed that this inarticulation leads to further misinformation and fallacies. The response from the yyy also indicates a complete lack of understanding of the very subject matter ie the youth subsidy. Lets go back. Businesses in SA has leanerships and skills training for school leavers. Businesses do NOT pay a cent for these learnerships or skills training,they claim it through the Skills Act. In fact, these learners are paid a stipend through this very levy. So what new impact does the youth subsidy seek to achieve if business has this very ”programme” that already exists, albeit under a new name. Secondly, Cosatu is correct, what this youth subsidy seeks to achieve, is to erode workers rights, with new legislation. Hence if business has NOT upgraded youth into their ranks with current learnerships, why are they so hell bent on having this new legislation. ALso Isaac, there are more sides to the story here, and I NEVER see the argument made about the role of business. What is the role and relevance of business, today? And have they contributed to the alleviation of youth unemployment? I am very happy to say that the new policy by ANC on youth upskilling is revolutionary. This youth subsidy will seeks to marginalise the poor nd at least this new proposals targets ALL youth and not the usual beneficiaries that business parade to us as their success…
@Tofolux: Have you ever considered that not everyone who is trained under the learnership programmes either makes the grade or wants to stay with the particular company through which they received their training?
At my previous company, I was actually involved in their first learnership programme which took on 5 young ladies with no IT knowledge or customer service experience. By the time we were done, these ladies qualified as call centre agents. Only one of them opted to stay with the company and received permanent employment. The other four left for reasons I can only guess at.
Since (as you pointed out) we already have this system in place, would it not make sense to expand it (which can be done through the youth wage subsidy) so that businesses are able to increase the size of their learnership programmes?
@Tofolux,
My understanding (admittedly limited) is that not all costs are claimable through the Setas. http://www.oaitc.co.za/levyandgrants.php
Furthermore, setas deal with training, and training plans and training implementation reports must be submitted. No problem for a medium to large co. Which may have a capable training dept. or which can afford training consultants. But a one or two person PC repair co. may find that too burdensome.
Not every type of business follows a formal training program from day1 for the new employee. Some may only send employees on the first course after several months.
In the case of formal apprentice training, the training grants are very big, about R5 million for a business training several apprentices. However, the application the process takes about a year, and one starts by first training a skills assessor and a skills auditor. I know a consultant who takes companies step by step through this process, for a fee of R30 000 per co.
I know an experienced but unqualified (failed trade test) turner and toolmaker, trained to a high standard in a German co. With over 20 years work experience. He would love to train youngsters. He can’t afford the costs of getting the training grant. So he continues to drive a taxi for a living.
I agree with Lennon,
We should use Seta grants to recover some of the Skills Development Levy, and a Youth Subsidy to cover the costs of hiring additional people.
@Lennon, the point of learnerships and skills programmes are there for training and work experience which is exactly what the youth subsidy seeks to do. Incumbents are paid a stipend which is exactly what the youth subsidy wants to do. Business does not pay a cent for the learnerships or skills, which is exactly what the youth subsidy proposes. So it brings one to the crucial question.Why the duplication? The difference between the youth subsidy and the existing leanerships/skills programmes is the fact that the youth under youth subsidy will not be protected by worker legislation. It also allows business to have its whole workforce classified under youth subsidy paid for by govt. Now if that is not modern day greed and exploitation, then I dont know. I am so pleased tho with the ANC youth proposals. It packs that very proposal on top of the existing Skills levy programmes. Hence it challenges business counter programme when they create a bourgeosie with these learnerships. Learnerships and skills will be rolled out to the poorest of the poor and those are the people who should benefit the most and not these priviledged beneficiaries that business continues to create. Opportunites should be offered to everybody hence if all our youth have had exposure, imagine the possibilities. wow!
Cosatu is not a Western Style Trade Union movement – it is in fact more communist than the Communist Party is today – the SACP have moved to being socialist.
I tried to explain to Buti, leader of the Young Communist League, on the radio one Christmas Day a few years ago why the Communist Party should change its name to Socialist. Christmas Day seemed to be appropriate – but he did not understand a word I said, because none of them know the history of Communism and enforced atheism.
If you listen to Patrick Craven, Vavi, and Irwin Jim – what they are speaking is pure Marxist rhetoric.
Patrick Craven makes no secret of it -and openly says he has never taken a risk because he is “not a Capitalist” and promotes Das Kapital as his favoutite book.
Vavi is alwys accusing farmers of exploiting workers – with never any proof. I used to think this chip on his shoulder was personal, but now think he uses his personal history to back up the myth. After all the Alliance, including Cosatu, run the country. If all this exploitation is taking place – why are their own labour inspectors not taking the cases to court?
Farmers(landlords) exploited workers (serfs) is the main thrust of Marxist Doctrine.
Moeletsi Mbeki warned Nelson Mandela not to take the best brains out of the Trade Union movement – but he did not take the advice!
What the ANC calls “factionalism” is partly Tribalism (i.e. the right Chief/Leader will sort it all out), but it is also people grouping around leaders with DIFFERENT economic and political views (i.e communism versus socialism)
@ Tofolux: Did you even read what I had written? These ladies weren’t kids from middle class or wealthy backgrounds who would invariably have had superficial IT knowledge. They were from townships outside of Cape Town – Langa, Nyanga and Gugs. The lady who stayed on was talking about getting a flat near the beach shortly before I left the company. Not sure if she ever did, but that certainly constitutes a success: going from impoverished to a nice flat.
You also seem to have missed the part where I mentioned using the subsidy to expand on the existing programme.
Exactly my point, why is business not board with the skills training and learnerships. If they are so concerned about the poor and social investment, why didnt they lead and become progressive in their businesses, And yet it is this very business, who claims they will be different with the youth subsidies. How?
@Lennon, you are talking apples (as usual) and I am talking oranges. Point is, there is no limitations. I mean so how does youth subsidy improve on what is already there? If business was as wonderfully co-operative they would have had training environments in the workplace where school leavers and existing staff benefit. I mean this point was made that currently business does NOT embark and promote ongoing training. But I also made the point for learnerships in particular, that those who learn does NOT necessarily have to in that workplace post learnership. I mean since when does a learnership create wealth. It is meant to create work experience and skills. Furthermore, despite everyone’s experiences, I doubt they have looked at the legislation, the intention of the Act and what it seeks to achieve. The youth subsidy with no protected legislation will see that youth being fired, day in and day out without recourse on the business.
@Tofolux,
The intention of a Youth Subsidy is to enable a co. to take on ADDITIONAL workers. Companies do train new entrants, but generally only take on just sufficient to meet their requirements.
The youth DO need employment first and foremost. They WILL learn, once employed, EVEN if not on a formal and accredited training programme. At a large or certainly a very large co., new employees can teach themselves e.g. business or financial skills, using the free online training facilities all large companies now have, or should have.
Seta grants are only for accredited training courses, and not for training in general.
Effectively the Youth Subsidy idea is an apprenticeship system which worked all over the world for thousands of years – and was still in place when I was getting an education.
@Tofolux: The subsidy can EXPAND on the current programmes i.e. IMPROVE on it. MAKE IT BIGGER.
And you’re crazy if you think that youth employed under the subsidy would not be protected by the Basic Conditions of Employment Act.
@Oldfox, its obvious you know very little about the Seta;s and much less about the youth subsidy, so why are you commenting to ths extent on something that you clearly do not understand.
@Tofolux
Firstly, you write like someone who has never been employed in the private sector. If so, you are not qualified to write about what employers may/will do if a Youth Subsidy (first mooted by the ANC) is implemented. What you claim they will do, is preposterous, at least for the 3 private & state companies I have worked for, and I have no doubt, for thousands of other SA firms.
Before responding, I checked up on a few websites, including http://www.skillsportal.co.za
So I am not imagining how Setas work. I have, for a few years, been in a training dept. where I taught apprentices, among others. I am familiar with the bureaucratic processes under the old system, and I can hardly imagine that they were simplified under the Seta system, with it’s much wider and deeper scope. The accreditation process is not simple or quick, and training and skills auditing consultants make good money helping companies to follow the proper processes. I am quite sure that there have to be checks and balances, even more than under the Apprenticeship system, to prevent fraudulent training grant claims being paid out.
A Learnership must be signed by 3 parties, the learner, the employer and the accredited skills training provider. This can be inconvenient for a small business that is now forced to rely on external training companies to validate their training.
@Lennon, I think you guys are being tunnel-visioned. You are looking at this thing in your own and business interest and also becos DA wants this poorly-thought out concept. This thing impacts on various groups, ie workers in general, women in particular and the handicapped and disabled, hence it cannot be a narrow debate.
@Lyndall,
Wrong. The Learnership system can be compared to the traditional Apprenticeship system, except that the Learnership offers much more. Learnerships are not just for ‘blue collar’ workers. Experience is also transferable. E.g. Under a Learnership, someone could start studying carpentry at firm A and complete the basic training at an unrelated firm B. This was impossible under the Apprenticeship system
Nevertheless, the Govt has realized it blundered by almost killing the Apprenticeship system ( the only system known to old artisans, and they are the people who have to train the young). Govt now wants to revive the Apprenticeship system. See Business Day of the past few days.
The Youth Subsidy is unrelated to Apprenticeships/Learnerships. Let’s say a motor workshop has capacity to train and meaningfully employ only 3 new apprentices each year. With the Youth Subsidy, it could, each year, take on 3 apprentices and another one or two young people to work with the apprentices.
Unfortunately, many Setas were badly mismanaged, so a system that looks good on paper has played a minimal role in increasing the general skill level of the population.
Many people trained under Learnerships were not properly/adequately trained. If I need a carpenter, I’ll avoid using a young person trained under a Learnership, if I have a choice.
@Oldfox, wrong, it cannot be compared to the apprenticeships because the qualifications are not the same!
@Oldfox, noting all your experiences, please explain the differences in learnership, its qualification and who sets the standard? Who does the assessing and qualifies that assesment. Also the youth subsidies have NO qualifications because the SGBs have not written standards for this. Hence explain the qualifications of youth subsidies. ALso what is the difference between learnerships and skills training, Please explain the difference qualifications between the two. Also is this a national , provincial or local board that sits and sets the standards for youth subsidies and where are they drawn from? Who assesses the employers and what are their roles in this youth subsidy thing.
I await your answer
Oldfox
I agree that it is not as good as the apprenticeship system but it is better than nothing, and certainly better than the expensive mess made by the Setas.
@Tofulux,
Obviously the qualifications are not the same. There are some similarities though. I think the Govt thought a Learnership could totally replace an Apprenticeship because, at a very high level, there are similarities. Now Govt realizes that the Apprenticeship system must be revived, for Vocational Training, especially for training/producing artisans. There is no reason why there could not be a Learnership in Carpentry that produces a carpenter as skilled, if not more skilled than one who completed a Carpentry Apprenticeship in the old days. Such a Learnership has advantages, for example if the carpentry shop shut down before the Learnership was completed, the learner simply finds another place that can train carpenters to the requisite standard, as Learnership skills are ‘transferable’.
Regarding your list of questions addressed to me, there is absolutely no point in me explaining what is adequately covered in the Skills Development Act, as amended and the National Qualifications Framework Act, and so forth.
Discussion paper for Public Comment.
Confronting Youth unemployment: policy options for South Africa
http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/national%20budget/2011/Confronting%20youth%20unemployment%20-%20Policy%20options.pdf
@Oldfox too much googling does not ensure that you understand something. Your answer is fraught with inconsistencies and it is obvious again, that you have glossed over information that requires in-depth understanding.
@Tofolux: I think you’re scared that it might actually work.
The document “Confronting youth unemployment: policy options for South Africa” is well researched. Published by Treasury but it almost certainly had inputs from other departments and organizations.
Much mention is made of the productivity-wage disparity of first time employees, which acts as a disincentive to hire inexperienced people. The Youth Subsidy removes some of that disincentive.
The doc mentions utilization of both the proposed Youth Subsidy and Learnership grants by the same employer It mentions the fact that only 10% of Learnership grants went to small ( below 50 employees) firms, yet 60% of all employment is with small firms. Furthermore, Learnerships are not benefitting those at the lower and of the skill and earnings distribution, the very segment with the highest youth unemployment.
The document was closed for comments on 30 April last year.
@Oldfox, you definitely do not understand learnerships and skills training under the Setas. This back and forth is not assisting you at all, suggest you concede and plead ignorance on the subject.
@Lennon, above message proves my point. Googling does not make you a professor.
@Tofolux: I guess you are scared then. Would it be so bad if an opposition party has a plan which benefits everyone? Or is it blasphemy for the Holy ANC to be upstaged?
@Tofoluxq
In my previous post, I merely quoted facts taken from the document on policy options. Seems as though you did not bother to read that document. or if you did, you did not understand it.
I admit that I had supposed a subsidy covering 100% of wage was possible, but the document mentions 50%, in which case one only uses that if one has a vacancy, and not for the sake of reducing unemployment.
But, my statements in earlier posts about Setas were, according to the policy options document, all correct. That only 10% of Seta grants go to small and micro businesses, is of major importance.
I can now categorically state that Cosatu’s arguments against a Youth Subsidy, are irrational and unfounded.
@Lennon,
While it may be that govt only took the idea of a youth subsidy seriously after it was proposed by an international think tank, govt fully supported the idea. It was thoroughly researched by govt, as evidenced by the doc published by the SA Treasury.
I am not aware of the DA or any other opposition party having originated the idea.
@Oldfox: Sorry, you’re right. Thabo Mbeki proposed the subsidy several years back. The DA has supported it and has made its own proposals on how it should be handled – which obviously doesn’t sit well with the commies or COSATU since they automatically oppose most (if not all) of the ideas which the DA supports.
Either way, it still boils down to the DA possibly being right.