The imminent independence of the province of Kosovo from Serbia is at present the topic of hot debate and flaring tempers up north.
The United States and many European nations are solidly backing the call for an independent Kosovo, while Serbia and her long-time ally Russia are vociferously against such a move. The pro-independence faction cites democracy and an end to ethnic and religious tensions as the main reason for taking its stance, and views Russia’s opposing view as muscle-flexing and backing a long-time friend and ally in Serbia.
While there is much to be said for the merits of a fluffy democracy being patched together from a war-ravaged region, the motives of the pro-independence lobby do not appear to be any more sincere than they were when it invaded Iraq to liberate its people and find those weapons of mass destruction to save us all from certain doom. To push Serbia into accepting the loss of a sizeable chunk of its sovereign territory without actually being sensitive to the history and the implications would be to create another Israeli-Palestinian conflict right on Europe’s doorstep.
The history of Kosovo, and the Balkans in general, is complex, bloody, much manipulated and a subject often devolving into fierce argument. However, the generally agreed facts are:
Slavic tribes comprising the nucleus of people that became the modern Serbs moved south and settled the lands of present-day Serbia and Kosovo during the fifth and sixth centuries BC. That means that Serbs have been present there for more than 1 400 years. Albanians as a collective people were first recorded in 1043, in Greece and not Kosovo, roughly 500 years after the Serbs had settled the area. Efforts to place them as a people in Kosovo using linguistic techniques before this time have ended in pure speculation. Roughly speaking, Serbs controlled Kosovo for the next 800 years before losing a major battle in 1389 on Kosovo soil to the Turks of the Ottoman Empire, a solemnly infamous battle in Serbian history. There is some record of Albanians fighting on the Serbian side in the battle, but whether they came from present-day Albania or Kosovo is not known. At this time fewer than 2% of the farms and homesteads in Kosovo were Albanian by census. During Ottoman rule, the majority of Albanians and a few Serbs converted to Islam to avoid paying oppressive taxes, but most Serbs were driven wholesale from Kosovo and by the end of the 19th century, the Albanian population eventually outnumbered the Serbian population in the region for the first time. During the Balkan wars of 1912, Serbia again gained control over its long-lost province of Kosovo, then promptly lost it when the Albanians in the region sided with the central powers in World War I and drove it out again. The Serbs then took control after the war and were promptly driven out by Albanian fascist forces that sided with Germany and Italy in World War II. During the war, thousands of Serbs were killed by the Albanian army — more than 100 000 were driven out of Kosovo and actively replaced by ethnic Albanians from Albania as part of that government’s policy to dominate Kosovo ethnically. That is an event that happened in living memory for many older Serbs in the 1990s. After the war, Kosovo became a Serbian province yet again and part of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, Kosovo was given federal autonomy in order to weaken Serbia and thus strengthen Yugoslavia. Albanian numbers increased rapidly to the point where today they represent 90% of the population. Albanians used various tactics, including violence and protests, to push constantly for an independent, Albanian-controlled state. Milosevic used this as a catalyst to mobilise Serbs against them in the most recent Kosovo war that we all saw on TV. European negotiators actually brokered a ceasefire during the Kosovo war that was promptly broken by the Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) while Serbian forces were retreating. That brought new Serbian reprisals. Nato began bombing Serbian positions in Kosovo and eventually key strategic targets in Serbia and Montenegro, one of the most famous of which was a “stray” bomb that flattened the Chinese embassy on the outskirts of Belgrade, the shell and rubble of which can still be seen today among apartment blocks. Since the end of the war, the UN has administered Kosovo. Hundreds of thousands of Kosovo Serbs have fled Kosovo for Serbia after Albanian ethnic violence against them and the burning of Serbian Orthodox churches and homes. The UN is largely impotent in containing regular Albanian reprisals against the Serbian population living in Kosovo today.
While this is a much-summarised history, I think it presents a few interesting points for debate. Firstly, one should perhaps modify the view of the much-maligned Serbs being the only bad boys in this nasty spat. Nobody could argue that Serbian forces did not commit atrocities in recent times. Judging by the history of the place, however, it was simply the next swing of the deadly pendulum that has now, with Nato’s heavy-handed help, since swung back yet again.
It would seem that the Nato bombing campaign needed a “baddie” to appear justified, and the Serbs fitted the bill nicely at the time. The Western media played ball and what was actually a simple decisive strategic action to end war being waged too close for comfort to European borders became the usual good-versus-evil Star Wars fodder dished up to us by US broadcasters. This has placed the Serbs on to the moral low ground during the current negotiations for Kosovo. How differently we would have looked at this if the snapshot were taken during World War II when the Albanians were bedfellows of the Germans and Italians and engaged in their own campaign of ethnic cleansing just 60 years ago.
Within that argument lies embedded the deeper issue: Should Kosovo be granted its independence and on what grounds? Anyone on the ground knows that independence means Albanian control, a probable coalition with Albania itself and hellish reprisals against the last 100 000 Serbs living in the region as soon as Nato moves out. Of course it is an extremely attractive proposition for the Nato countries patrolling the area. They could extricate themselves from the mess into which they bombed themselves, claim to have installed a democracy, stop paying aid and separate the Serbs and Albanians for good. It’s attractive too for the Albanian majority who get control of territory they have been fighting over for hundreds of years.
What of the Serbs, though? They clearly have a strong legitimate historical claim to the territory, the territory is still a province of Serbia, the Nato invasion and occupation of sovereign territory was a breach of international law and external powers are now deciding that Serbia’s national and religious homeland will be removed regardless of their thoughts on the matter. It would appear they have a right to be concerned about the events in progress when you review the facts.
Enter Russia. It is looking past the emotive issues and is worried about precedent. If Kosovo is successful in its independence struggle, it will set a precedent and give hope to regional minorities the world over that they too can win their autonomy and govern themselves. Russia is up to its eyeballs in candidates there! It would seem it is thinking further ahead than Europe and the US are.
Notable exceptions to the Nato voice include Spain. The Spanish are concerned about independence claims in its Basque region. What about Sri Lanka, the Congo, Sudan, Indonesia, India (Oranje?) and countless other regions with minority groups pushing for independence? All have the same potential problem and that does not even begin to address the growing issue of rapidly increasing minority populations in parts of Western Europe and the US.
How would the US react, for example, if Florida declared its independence in 2020 because it had a majority Spanish-speaking population that aligned itself more with Castro than Bush? No different to the Serbian situation in theory, perhaps, but would it apply the same precedent and allow the independence it is pushing so hard for in Kosovo? I somehow think not.
Independence for Kosovo is looking like a hasty Nato patch-job for a prickly problem, and rather than fix the mess it could create a whole new era of instability, not just in Kosovo but also the world in general. There must be a possible compromise, perhaps involving a partition of Kosovo that includes important religious and historical sites being incorporated into Serbia and similar concessions made for the Albanians.
Alternatively, federal autonomous control but not independence has already been extended by Serbia to Kosovo but rejected outright as a solution by the Albanians, who sense that they can gobble up the whole cake so why accept a slice? It seems reasonable, given the history and the investment by both sides, to revisit this idea. This proposal also has merit when you consider that Kosovo’s economy is largely dependent on Serbian consumption for its survival and the reality for Kosovo, should it break away, could be economic collapse.
Whatever the final outcome, it is sure to set minds and wheels in motion around the world. The turbulent Balkans might even hold the key to future European and global stability as they so often have in the past. It’s not the time for a Band-Aid when stitches are required.
This article is full of lies and history fictions based on writer’s selfishness rather that true facts. I suggest Mr Grant reads more non-biased books rather than books that have tried to re-write the history. Book – Short History of Kosovo – by Cambridge professor Noel Malcolm can give the writer of this article a better knowledge of the history of Kosovo, unless he is trying to impose a mindset of the years he has grown with apartheid when minority ruled the indigenous people…
Grant!
You clearly have got those “facts” wrong.
I’d recomend a serious reading of the enciclopedia britanica to get the real facts and not spread misinformation like you are doing here.
And I may add – regardless of silly historical arguments – the right of a people for sovreignty from an oppressing powers trounces all else. Kosovo will be indipendent because the majority of its current populace want it. Plain and simple.
Dell Boy: The facts for this piece were, in fact, taken largely from Noel Malcolm’s book, Wikipedia and personal visits to Serbia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Your parallel with apartheid is tenuous since the facts (even in Noel’s book) indicate with certainty that between the two factions, the Serbs are the more ‘indigenous’ people arriving there in the 5th and 6th century. Recorded history (also from Noel’s book) first mentions the ethnic group Albanians in 1043, 500 years later, in a Greek battle manuscript. This is historical fact. A more accurate analogy would perhaps be the scenario of the Cape Province, through immigration and population growth, developing a majority white population at some point and declaring independence from a majority black South Africa. It’s a breakaway province, not a country under occupation or oppression.
As I said in the article, the solution will quite rightly be based on current status and not history from 1500 years ago but it helps us understand the other point of view and the emotions involved here…that of the Serbs losing their religious and cultural heritage. There are always two sides to every story.
Ervin: I have not read Britannica’s version, thanks for the reference. Perhaps you could illuminate the specific facts you find inaccurate? I also disagree with your reading of the solution as a simple one. Should Kosovo and NATO move ahead with unilateral independence, they could very well start another Balkan war in Kosovo at some point, this time with Russia’s overt backing and shake the stability of Europe and perhaps the world. It is not simple at all.
Well said!
I’m glad to see that someone is prepared to tell the truth and not just reproduce the propaganda of Nato (the North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation).
And if Kosovo becomes independent, what about Texas? What about Belgium — send in Nato (oops, thety’re already there, aren’t they?) to keep the language groups apart. What about Northern Cyprus? And how about a Kurdistan? Not to say anything about Bophuthatswana, where the difference is that Nato didn’t act as Mangope’s air force.
What Kosovo (and indeed the whole of the former Yugoslavia) needs is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Why, in the decade that we moved away from apartheid, did Yugoslavia adopt it, aided and abetted by countries in Western Europe and eventually Nato?
Grant you sound to me like a Nazzi reporter from the late 30′s who’s trying to justify the ethnic cleansing done by the Serbs on multiple occasions to the Albanians. Here is a clear history lesson to you about the Albanians, they have been living in the balkans since 1000+ B.C. knows formally as the Illyrians. Albanians are the most indigenous people in the formar yugoslav territory, which they controled during the Illyrian Empire.
So stop writing propaganda because you won’t fool anyone but yourself! You will see an independent state of Kosovo soon and no it won’t be like Palestine on the simple fact that Albanians are in their own land which they’ve been living ever since they’ve created their ethnic race, and the Serbs know it. See you can’t go to Africa and try to tell the black people that the Europeans are indigenous, same principle applies to the slavic Serbs, they can’t come to Kosovo and say they’re indigenous because they’re not! Serbs have their roots with the Slavic people from up north in Russia, Albanians have their roots from the same tarritory they are living now.
I could go on and on, but one thing is sure, just like the US was commited to defeat the Nazzis during WWII, they are yet again commited to fight the modern day Nazzis in the balkans.
The only reason it didn’t pass a UN mandate is because of veto power from Russia, if majority were to decide there would have long ago passed a UN resolution which Ahtisaari proposed.
Well according to you Albanians didn’t exist before 1043, they showed up from nowhere ?
Just because they weren’t mentioned that doesn’t mean they didn’t exist.
The name Albanian itself was first mentioned in the 2nd century BCE by Polybius (Arbanios, Arbanitai with their city Arbon), the 1st century CE by Pliny (Olbonensis), and the 2nd century CE by geographer and astronomer Ptolemy (Albanoi), as one of the important Illyrian tribes situated where is now Central Albania with Albanopolis as their main city.
It is supposed that Illyrians, one of the oldest peoples in Europe, emerged as Albanians during early Middle Age, the name taken from one the dominant Illyrian tribes Albanoi. Also the cradle of the Serbs is Raska, in nowaday Montenegro where the first Serbian state was formed and not Kosovo where Serbs settled much later. And Montenegro is now an independent country, free of Serbia, without a single life being spilled.
John: Albanians as we know them today are SPECULATED to descend from either the Illyrians or the Thracians depending on which historian you choose to follow. Nobody knows which or can prove this conclusively at all and thus it has no weight in this sub-debate. As the group of people we now know as Albanians, they are first RECORDED as a people in 1043 (Malcolm pg 28) – Fact!
My intention in summarising the history was to show why Serbs have a valid historical claim and an attachment to this province of their country, even though they have been largely driven from it, and not to justify behaviour of either side in recent or previous clashes.
As for your Nazi comment, I hope you see the irony in the fact that the Albanians sided with ethnic-cleansing Nazi’s in WW2 and not the Serbs. There are no angels on either side here and if you believe this to be the case, you are a victim of western media propaganda.
Sebastian: ‘It is supposed’ does not constitute recorded historical fact. People existed who at some point formed into a group we now call Albanians. Those people came from somewhere as you correctly state but where, bearing in mind we are looking at relevance to historical claim for Kosovo, nobody can say for sure. In short it is a very fuzzy history.
Your comparison with Montenegro is interesting and I wish I could agree that a similar peaceful transition could occur in Kosovo. Montenegro, however, was not a province of Serbia but an independent state after winning their independence from the Ottomans in 1878. Serbia has no claim to Montenegro hence the peaceful split.
1. if the albanians sided with the nazzi’s then why is it that we saved every jewish soul stepped foot onto albanian territory? Albanians didn’t side with anyone, they just had a common enemy with the nazzis, being the Serbs.
2. just because there are no recordings doesnt mean that it wasn’t like that. Serbs came from Russia, Albanians came from where? See, your theory is bogus, Albanians were there for thousands of years when the Serbs forced their way in that territory.
There is no speculation on the fact that the today’s Albanians are the former Illyrians, any historian out there with basic information can approve to that. You just choose to believe to some serb-propaganda.
You are just basing your article as if Albanians landed all of a sudden from the moon and pushed themselves magically into Serb territory. That is the most absurd theory I have ever heard! It’s classic, not even Serbs would dare to go that far where you’re going with this article.
The Albanian language, formally known as the Illyrian language, goes back all the way to the Indo-Europeans languages which means that the Albanians are in fact one of the ancient habitants of Europe, specifically in the territory of former Yugoslavia.
It isn’t a question of should it get it’s independence anymore, everyone agrees that it should except the Serbs of course, and Russia who’s just trying to hinder the process on UN stage. Question is, how can we get it independent without turmoil and protecting all the civilians that live in Kosovo, including the Serbs. Because everyone knows, as soon as Kosovo becomes independent, all the Serbs will flee since most of them still have blood on their hands from the ethnic-cleansing they committed in 1999. How can they stay in Kosovo after they killed, murdered and rapped the Albanians? It is a hard question to answer especially since not all of them committed the crimes, but certainly every Kosovo-Serb family had family members in the Milosevic’s Army who have done the most horrific crimes since Hitler.
That is why you will see the Serbs move out of Kosovo voluntarily because they cannot in fact live with the same people who they tried to ethnically cleanse and failed due to US intervention.
John: You have let slip that you are Albanian by the ‘we’ in your first point
I understand that you must have emotional investment beyond mine in this issue. I would urge you however to go back and read my article again, especially the end. It advocates a peaceful settlement of some sort and that both Serbs and Albanians should be accommodated. The current solution is too one-sided and convenient for Nato and the Albanians.
On the much-debated historical claim, you are correct in saying that just because there are no records does not mean that Albanians were not present there – it equally does not mean that they were. You are purely speculating and taking a convenient position. What is recorded, however, firmly places Serbs there for 14 centuries – that is a long time and indicates that although presumably present, the Albanians were certainly not significant in number, as they are now, by comparison. While this does not give anybody practical legal claim to anything in 2007, I highlighted the point to help readers understand Serbian feelings over the loss of Kosovo and to explain, not justify, their actions in the Kosovo war.
Your predictions of what will occur in post-independent Albania to Serbs living there is chilling but I suspect you are right on the money and have access to sentiment on the ground that I do not. After independence there would likely be a new wave of violence, forced migration or ‘ethnic cleansing’ if you like but of Serbs this time. It would certainly make it very difficult to maintain the current moral high ground enjoyed by Albanians in the eyes of the world.
Please note that my comments about facist Albanians is with respect to the events in Kosovo only. Albania itself appears to have a remarkable WW2 record as far as hiding and protecting Jews is concerned. Unfortunately, they were not able to extend that generosity to the Serbs in Kosovo, choosing rather to murder them and drive them out.
There is no presumptions that when Serbs moved south into the balkans that they were faced with the Albanians who had already lived there for thousands of years, it is a simple fact.
Moving beyond that, Kosovo’s independence is unavoidable. The people of Kosovo do not want to associate themselves in any kind of way with the Serbs. Differenct culture, different race. That’s what the west has learned in this negotiation process, that there is no negotiation. For as long as Kosovo isn’t independent, you will run into civil unrest. That’s already history, the independence of Kosovo has long been accpeted, where are you living man? Oh yeah that’s right, in the same country who was trying to tell the black people all these years that they didn’t belong in south Africa. The real problems are in Bosnia, Presheva valley and Macedonia.
‘Unfortunately, they were not able to extend that generosity to the Serbs in Kosovo, choosing rather to murder them and drive them out.’ What are you talking about? It’s the other way around pal!
So, I’m done here with lecturing a white boy slave owner. Hey white boy, you dont even have a right to even write about this issue considering your background.
Smashing article! One of the very few intelligent commentaries I have seen on this situation. Congratulations — you actually have mind, whereas so many others are simply scribes for the propagandists.
Thank you for providing such a heartening article to hold up against the surge of drivel being published in the wake of black Monday, December 10th.
I’m just sorry that some of your readers appear to be still so ignorant. Wake up, people! Serbia’s interests are the interests of the Western world. Bury the Serbs and you will be digging your own graves in the process.
This is a very interesting article as it gives a clear viewpoint on a subject that many people (especially younger) do not know about. It is also an extremely sensitive subject for the people who are from these nations. As a white South African overseas I often find that people pre-stamp words ‘apartheid,colonialist’and ‘racist’ on me before I have even had the chance to share my own personal viewpoints. But I can say that I am proud to be a South African and to present what is positive about our country to the outside world. Yes apparently 60% of the South Africans believe that all the races in our country are working together to produce a better future for ourselves in harmony. But there has been much forgiveness, sacrifice and compromise from all sides for this to take place. And South African history (since white arrival) has really not been that long at all in comparison to the history of the people of Kosovo, Albania and Serbia. How great is this challenge that they have ahead of them! I feel such a compassion as I try to understand a little of what they have had to go through and what they are challenged with. I hope that somehow, some way there will be an answer, a hope, a solution without suffering. They deserve our admiration for every positive thing that happens in Kosovo from this time onwards.
What a dissembling con job. “The generally agreed facts” omit any mention of the Serbs ethnic cleansing of Kosovo in the 90s. Worse, the piece pretends the province is on some sort of stage, unaffected by events in its neighbors — like the murderous ethnic cleansing instigated by the Serbs in Bosnia and Serb-instigated wars in Croatia and Slovenia. Of course, this was all just to provide a “baddie” for NATO and entertainment for bored Americans — had nothing to do with the Serbs liquidating UN safe havens like Srebrenica just a few hundred kilometers to the north. The affected pretense of impartiality is laughable.
Perhaps the US reaction is different because Spanish-speaking Floridians think of themselves as Americans, despite the ignorant implication that only English-speakers are American? Or because the US government isn’t rounding up Spanish-speakers, murdering them, dumping them in mass graves, exhuming them, burning them, and reburying them to hide the crime?
This piece needs either a radical rethink or to drop the pretense of impartiality.
There was ethnic cleansing on both sides — why should it be immoral on one side, but not the other.
And if Kosovo becomes independent, I predict that there will be more ethnic cleansing — first of the remaining Serbs who haven’t already been ethnically cleansed, followed by the Albanian-speaking people in the rest of Serbia.
Nato threw petrol on that fire, mainly because Madeleine Albright was as much a crazy war-monger as George Bush. Indpendence for Kosovo will be throwing more petrol on that fire.
The Albanians’ sins were enumerated and the Serbs’ many sins weren’t. That’s stacking the deck, and exposes this as untrustworthy propaganda.
Blaming Madeleine Albright or the US for the wars in Yugoslavia is revisionist and delusional, particularly whilst exempting Milosevic, Karadzic, Mladic and company from mention. Thoughtless anti-Americanism may be popular, but it doesn’t make it historically correct.
Gruntled: You are correct that more emphasis could perhaps have been placed on the Serbian ethnic cleansing campaign in the article. It is bordering on common knowledge, however, and was well covered by the media during the war and forms the core of what most people, removed from the situation, know about the conflict. For the record then, it was a horrific campaign involving mass murder, rape and the forced migration of an estimated one million ethnic Albanians by Serbian forces. It was also certainly mentioned in the article – ‘Nobody could argue that Serbian forces did not commit atrocities in recent times’. I assumed a certain basic knowledge of this by the reader but admit it as an omission under ‘generally agreed facts’.
One of the intentions of the article was to highlight the lesser known side of the story, the Serbian side which pre-dates the image and common perception the world has after the Kosovo war. In that sense some focus was placed on lesser known facts or enumeration of Albanian sins, as you put it, which explain historically WHY the Serbs were motivated to do what they did. Again, this is not an attempt to excuse their actions at all but to put them into perspective and to see the other side of the story, unpopular as that may be. It is relevant because to discount the Serbian side of the story and to impose a unilateral decision upon them could escalate things in Kosovo instead of resolving them.
The Florida example was a simple analogy that you have chosen to criticise literally for some reason.
all of the facts are 100% true here. the comment on top mentions Noel Malcolm? he is a writer who was paid to get on the “anti-serb” bandwagon in the 90s. in his entire book he used NOT ONE serbian source and yet he is writing about serbia with material he got from albanian and austrian sourc??? his bias is clear. as for the 2nd comment for the “right for self determination” does that apply to the serbs in bosnia as well? do they have the right to break away??? the first 2 comments were made by people who are out of their league on this topic.
i wanted to address “john’s” point from above;
1. not many jews dies in the albanian regions because of 2 things; first there were hardly any jews in albania (few hundred) and most importantly it is a fact that jews all over europe were better off in areas in which the locals were actually pro nazi (just like the albanians were, see;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Skanderbeg_(1st_Albanian)
just like in bulgaria where the locals were pro nazi many jews lived through the war. the nazis were especially brutal to locals and jews in the countries that showed resistance to them, like in yugoslavia where the serbs fought them.
2. the word Albanian was first used 600 years after the word Serb, that is a fact. All Serbs did not migrate to the region “from the north” as the albanians would want the world to think (by doing so they think that they can justify stealing kosovo with a “we were here first” argument. Look up the “Genetic History of Europe” and you can see that in fact it is the Serbs, Croats and Montenegrins (and some Albanians) who have the genetic markers of the that are different to the rest of Europe. A huge portion of the Croat, Serb and Albanian people have these “ancient” ties. In fact 80% of all the peoples in the Balkans have common ancestors. It is funny however that the Albanians only started to call themselves “Ilyrian” after they saw the Croats and Serbs do so;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_movement
this is why if you ask an Albanian to name 1, just 1 Albanian source from prior to the 19th century who makes the “Albanian-Ilyrian” analogy they stop the conversation BECAUSE THERE IS NONE!
Kosovo belongs to Serbia and Serbians. Albanians already have Albania, so if Serbian Albanians don’t like Serbia – let them move to Albania. Plain and simple, other populations have had to do the exact same thing in the past.
evidently there are two versions to the history. Now can somebody tell us which book represents comprehensively the history and origins of both the Serbs and Albanians, besides Malcolm’s book.
read any books written by westerners prior to the 1990s anti-serb bias. Rebecca West’s “Black Lamb Gray Falcon” is often regarded as the greatest book written on the region to name just one;
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Lamb-Grey-Falcon-Twentieth-Century/dp/0140188479
Whatever we’ve had done, we’ve done poorly considering what we should have done after the genocide performed upon us in the WW1 and WW2. That is the only regret.
And here we are: dissapearing as the rest of the Western world in the sea of Islam, third-world immigrants and pathetic liberalism.
Well done, white Christian man…
For those who seem to think that Albanians are the original inhabitants of the Balkans you are WRONG! DNA ancestry tests for both matriarchal and patriarchal lineages show that Serb’s and Croat’s ancestors have been in the Balkans for the last 20-30000 years. So the tragic state is that all 3 groups are most likely decsended from the Illyrians.
Books, did someone call for books? Okay, here are some very good books written on the subject:
The Balkans since 1453, L.S. Stavrianos
History of the Balkans, Scheville
And almost anything by the Seton-Watson boys.
These works are very solid and very scholarly. One must bear in mind that many of the publications that people are reading today are the works of journalists who parachuted in, often with very little historical background on the region and just started writing with no frame of reference. It always saddens me to see that so many of these journalist books are now being cited as history books.
Barbara Jellavich published a two volume History of the Balkans that is also quite good. Miranda Vickers has written a great deal on Albania.
nonsense… even if you were willing to embrace each and every bit of serb nationalist mythology of the dark ages…it can only provide motive NOT Justification.
There is No continuity between the medieval Serb fantasy land and the modern state of serbia.
Please join us in the here and now.
The Country Was Yugoslavia…and serbs and serbs alone are the only common denominator in all the violence that in the past couple of decades across all religious and ethnic lines.
Serbs wanted All of yugoslavia, and had mythological nonsense at the ready to try and justify all of it.
There is no justification…its all motive.
They failed miserably.
The country That was Yugslavia finally became todays republic of Serbia in name a mere 2 years ago when finally even there best friends montenegro washed there hands of them.
Serbia NEVER equated to Yugoslavia…it can only be considered a successor state today simply because it drove everyone else out.
Kosova is the SEVENTH country to formed of that failed serb experiment of recreating a medieval neverland that never quite was.
in regards to the authors comments on “How would the US react, for example, if Florida declared its independence…”
That analogy is utterly ridiculous… In an instant it whitewashes serbs and smacks of fear mongering.
For Florida to declare independence from the USA….what would that USA have to be?
Your analogy is ludicrous as it attempts to draw a direct parralel between Serbia today and the USA …wich is downright insulting to all americans.
the dynamics of Yugoslavia was much different from the usa…an analogy really should not be made…but since you Have, lets do it right…
Wouldnt a state like Texas(no offense texas!) have had to attempt to dominate the rest of the usa triggering a civil war first? Wouldnt nearly all of the other states in the usa have had to already broken away?
even though kosova only had federal Yugoslav autonomy…it did have its own elected FEDERAL representation and seat on yugoslavias rotating presidency Alongside the republic of serbia.
So Would not your imaginary florida had to have its senators and congressmen and all U.S. elected federal representation Forcibly removed and replaced by this insano version of the state of texas… as the serbia did in yugoslavia?
and when all the states in the united states of America declared independence…and texas being left alone.
Texas would have already had to have rewritten the Constitution a half a dozen times already and become a new country of “the republic of texas” in name wich would be a technical “successor” of the USA. as the current country of “the republic of serbia” came to be when montenegro left only 2 years ago.
THAT is what the United States of America would have to be REDUCED to (not even mentioning all the violence and death on all sides) BEFORE Florida would unilateraly declare independence.
Yes, your original analogy was simplistic and not based on any reality whatsoever…and by using “spanish speaking” floridians is utterly racist and does nothing but to Exploit existing immigration and demographic fears in the usa. By making a parallel to Albanians and “spanish speaking” floridians you OBVIOUSLY make the effort to cast albanians as the “other” or different or not of the norm.
Any parallel you try to make with serbia and the usa, would have to be an act of ignorance…or an intentional effort to ignore the realities the events of the balkans these last few years.
If the usa were ever to be reduced to the shambles that is currently whats left of yugslavia (namely serbia)…how would the usa react?
sure the remaining insano state of texas would be ticked off…but every one of the former 49 states of the usa would Understand Completely.
@Alan – Thanks for your somewhat simplistic and emotional analysis. While Kosovo has been used as a political lever by Serbia in recent years, it was certainly not a Serb fantasyland as you have stated. The Serbian orthodox religion was founded there in the 12th century and many 13th and 14th century Serbian monasteries stand in Kosovo today as proof (some of which ethnic Albanians have seen fit to burn down in 2004). The Battle of Kosovo in which Serb armies were defeated in present day Kosovo by the Ottomans in 1389 is documented history, not fantasy as you would have us believe.
What does come close to fantasy, however, are historical Albanian claims to be the rightful owners of the territory. Sure they were there in small numbers, we think, but only in recent times have they dominated the province numerically. I suspect that this is why the strongest Albanian claim to Kosovo is as the victims of the 1999 Serb aggression. There is little else they can claim based in history that could possibly stand up to Serbian claims.
You have also conveniently chosen to gloss over Albanian ethnic cleansing attempts in the last century. I suspect that they do not serve your purpose of engaging in more tired Serb-bashing. There are no clear victims and aggressors here when you look at it in perspective and not just in the isolation of 1999.
As for my analogy with Florida, it was off the cuff and only intended to highlight the fact that Kosovo is a province and not a sovereign country. You have decided to analyse it to depths it was never intended to represent. You alone know why you would bother, but substitute Florida for Matabeleland in Zim or any other region that fits the profile as you wish.
And as for Kosovo as a federation under Tito, a Croatian born to Croat father and Slovenian mother and not a Serb, it was given that status to separate it from Serbia in order to weaken the input of Serbia in the Yugoslav federation so that Tito could better control the various factions– tacit proof of its actual status during those times.
The complexity of this issue is the reason why only a bilateral negotiation will result in lasting agreement.
@Grant
Its a mystery why you feel the need to apply serb bashing to me, as I made a concerted effort NOT to serb bash at all. I made no mention of either Albanian or Serb violence.
It is interesting that in your analysis of the situation, You feel the need to re-enforce serbian historical claims IN relation to todays realities,
and tout the complexity of the issue, and traipse around various points in history to boot… how is it that you are able to have left a glaring black hole in regards to the last couple of decades… Not once did you mention Yugoslavia in your article nor the very real political events directly leading up to its dissolution and where the balkans are today…. the least “mysterious” situation of all.
I say to you again, Serbian Nationalist Mythology has no place in any intelligent conversation of Kosovo’s independence. All it does is provide Motive for serbs very real actions in what was yugolsavia.
You pretend to take an even stance by stating “There are no clear victims and aggressors here” wich is ironic since the bulk of your “analysis” depends entirely on that very same blame game….but in an even more useless Centuries long context, and still with Serbs as the ever perpetual victim.
Indeed… i suspect you have a pretty darn good grasp of the political events during your “black hole” decades that i bring up… and you yourself most likely come to the conclusion that it doesnt look favorably on serbs, am i to assume that is the moment i become an apparent serb basher?
The Mythology that comes into play, is the delusion of serbian continuity. Your analogy with florida was not “off the cuff” but clearly deceptive.
You say that i “have decided to analyse it to depths it was never intended to represent” … Im sorry, now you are simply being evasive because you clearly Tied it with the “serbian situation” what you seem to be upset about is that i applied to it… the very “black hole” of events you so gleefully evade.
Its pretty obvious why i bothered with a more in depth comparison… equally obvious is why you did not.
Alan, simply by insisting on calling it Serbian Nationalist Mythology your own bias is exposed. You accuse me of bias yet seem oblivious to your own. Which of the facts that I have stated is to your mind mythological and why?
History is relevant to the situation and hundreds of thousands of Serbs lived in Kosovo pre 1999. That is not myth, it is fact. ‘Lack of continuity’ as you put it was as a result of 500 years under forced Ottoman occupation after which the Serbs regained what was originally their territory. They fought for it, drove the Turks out and took it back as did many other nations that had been under their rule.
As for glaring black holes in my article, I did not set out to write a comprehensive history of the region – there are entire books you can read for that. I set out to give perspective and explain to people that the CNN version of events overly maligns Serbs and does not take their side of the story into account which I believe holds some weight. Thats all.
Perhaps I can pose you a simple question…should the Serbs, by some miracle, breed and outnumber the Albanians in Kosovo in 50 years’ time, would you agree that the territory should have a Serbian democratically elected majority government that would probably advocate joining Serbia again, even if the move broke international law?
I could almost assume that the comment:
“nonsense… even if you were willing to embrace each and every bit of serb nationalist mythology of the dark ages…it can only provide motive NOT Justification.
There is No continuity between the medieval Serb fantasy land and the modern state of serbia.”
refers to the scholarly works I cited. If so, I must assume that you have not read these books. I would like very much to see a single citation from these books that would give your comments a shred of credibility.
These works are hardly about anyone’s national myths. For example, these books open with an overview of the geography of the region. I think that one can see that this is a topography that tends to lend itself to structures that are clannish in nature. Some of these social structures remain stubbornly in place even today. I tend to think that anyone attempting to resolve some of the problems in the area would benefit from having this background knowledge in mind.
Furthermore, the various historical invasions in the region are also important – it can account for the seige mentality that can arise during a time of crisis. Understanding the 19th century client-state system that operated can certainly provide some insight as well.
Also the 2 Yugoslav experiments – how they are alike and how they differ – why each one ultimately failed and what scars were left behind.
Of course you are correct that recent events are much more important. In fact, bringing the failed Yugoslav experiments up as you did is quite relevant. In keeping with somewhat contemporary ideas, the 2nd one may be of more interest and provide more insight.
It was, as you well know, dominated by the personality of Joseph Broz, who oddly enough was not a Serb. He followed something akin to a rough draft of the Austrian model, in that he tried to balance the ethnic groups, often playing them off against each other. This was akin to stuffing a gaping wound with bandages and hoping against hope that it would go away.
In fact, I believe that until these historical problems are brought out into the light of day and examined clearly, with open and transparent discussion, it will be hard to reconcile these various groups.
I know that from the Civil Rights movement in the USA, that in some cases, examining historical events can provide a context for understanding the present and helping all parties find their way onto the road of reconciliation. I believe that someone once stated something that effect…let me see ..something along the lines of those who do not remember history….ah but I digress.
Independence for Kosovo is like independence for Bophuthatswana — an apartheid fantasy dream.
It also exposes the hypocrisy of the USA — recognising the UCK-led Kosovo, but not recognising the Hamas-led Palestine.
Greetings, and thank you for writing the truth! I found your excellent article on the Web while searching for material on Kosovo for my essay.
It is the best objective writing I have read among the several dozen since the “independence.” I would like your permission for the translation of your article in the Hungarian language for my website.
I am Hungarian, I live in Canada, and of course I am concerned about the Hungarian minority in Yugoslavia. Somehow I cannot accept the UN/NATO maneuvers, there is special secret interest in Kosovo for the West, in my opinion it has nothing to do with the freedom and independence of the albanian people. A reply would be appreciated. Thank you. Judit T.
@ grant
you did not accuse me of anti serb bias – you accused me of serb “bashing” thank you at least for the “downgrade”
You seem to think im attempting to argue the history of the middle ages…not at all. I take issue of the fact that you seem to think serbs place in the middle ages is anything but ludicrous when used as point in deciding on yes or no to independence today… especially when you made no attempt to go into any depth at all into recent events…. wich is exactly what i was trying to draw out of you.. since you made that highly erroneous florida comparison.
Serbian Nationalist Mythology…is not history. It is Serbs romantisized version of history and there place in it that they are still living in.
It is nonsense.
For example…if one were to make the point that that in yugoslavia serbs did not have the legal authority as a republic to remove kosovars elected federal representation in yugoslavia.
A counterpoint of “well, serbs built a monastary in the middle-ages” ..im sorry, it is nothing short of nonsense.
yet virtually every political action by serbs in yugoslavia is justified by just that sort of argument. Again, its motivation not reason.
You state…
“As for glaring black holes in my article, I did not set out to write a comprehensive history of the region – there are entire books you can read for that. I set out to give perspective and explain to people that the CNN version of events overly maligns Serbs and does not take their side of the story into account which I believe holds some weight. Thats all.”
thats Amazing to read. Your Article was not entitled “In defence of maligned serbs”…. it was in fact “No independence for Kosovo”.
Glad to see you confirm that you did NOT set out to provide a logical reason for No independence..as your article provided none.
Your article was also not entitled “serbs were in kosovo in the middle ages”
Im absolutely positive that cnn has never made a report about the “serbs who did not exist in the 13th century”
had they done so, your article would have hit the nail on the head and utterly destroyed that false claim.
as for the “events” were you trying to “set straight” ?
since you mention something that “overly maligns serbs..and does not take their side of the story…” one would have to assume you were speaking of Yugoslavia, its break up, all the violence that occurred, and the fact the serbs were the only common denominator across all ethnic and religious lines in all of it.
sooo… what did you set straight? what malignment did you correct?
as for your last “bit” on 50 years from now… really now, its a weak and evasive point. If you want to reduce it to a “if’s” argument…then one can say “If” the people in what is now known as kosovo were able to vote after the balkans wars to join with serbia or not…wouldnt you agree that all this could have been avoided?
But, To answer your question.
since you have a hard time making analogy out of the situation. let us agree first that in your supposition of 50 years from now that albanians would have had to FIRST destroy the politics and constituion of kosova and violently and indisputably deny serbs constituional rights within it using an nonsensical “kosova is albanian” mentality to justify everything they do. And it was clear that was in fact really illegal under international law.
Then yes, i can safely say i would support serb mytho.. independence.
@Ciganina
hi Ciganina, yes i did see your earlier booklist comment thanks.
It is not that i disagree with history… but if one is going to spout how unfair people are to serbs recently… and provide a defense of those misunderstood “actions” by ignoring it entirely by travelling through time a thousand years ago… then yeah, its nonsense.
Even if you are willing to embrace that “logic” … when speaking of Yes or NO to recognition of the Independence of kosovo… today in 2008, where one can pick apart and argue tons of political points regarding yugsoalvia/serbia/kosovo…
That one would still “with a straight face” ignore and refuse to confront the realities of recent events…and still present that time travelling facts as a main argument… im sorry is that is nonesense as well…how condescending must one be?
you made a quote of my comment “There is No continuity between the medieval Serb fantasy land and the modern state of serbia.”
certainly i could have used better etiquette, but theres is no argument there. Obviously i wasnt saying that there were no serbs as a people or a race since then and now.
But there is no question that there is no continutiy of the modern state of serbia and any kingdom/s of the dark ages… im not sure what there is to argue on that point.
@Alan,
Noone is spewing anything. I tend to look at the region as a whole. I am not launching an historical argument; rather I am asking why do these questions keep coming up again and again? It is certainly not only the Serbs – we have to look at the facts, quite historical I might add, that actions have been based on “might makes right”. I believe without the historical explanations as to where this kind of thinking originates – it will be difficult to get these people past it.
It is quite obvious that at this moment, the Albanians in Kosovo are riding the wave of victory, but the deeper question is how do they feel toward their minority populations? The question is how can these people, from every group, be convinced to cut this cord that ties them down to the past? Without a grasp of understanding the entire history of events – the way that each group has managed to manipulate the truth in order to shore up their ethnic claims – until we understand that, it is going to be hard to put the situation at rest.
I was not speaking of continuity, as you would realize upon reading those books, but rather what each group drags around with them as baggage that continues to make the water very murky.
In confronting realities, that is tough. I still remember the events of one March when Kosovo Albanian children had drowned in a river and there was outcry and media coverage that the children had been chased into a river by a “Serbian” dog. Wow! A Serbian nationalist dog. It could not have been a Serb, since the Serbs were in an enclave and could not move. This was a driven political agenda of a tragic event. There are just as many examples on any side of events in the Balkans. I am pressing for the importance of recognizing these forces so that we are not pulled into them.
I hope this clarifies my viewpoint.