So Gareth Cliff is insensitive for speaking ill of the dead. We should obviously now accept the word of the ANC that Manto Tshabalala-Msimang didn’t use her influence to hijack a donor liver from somebody who’d been waiting much longer than she had, and the stories about her kleptomania were surely contrived by her political opponents. What can’t be ignored, though, are the lives of the estimated 300 000 HIV patients who died on her watch. The world rejoiced when Hitler topped himself, Stalin’s departure certainly didn’t cause many tears to flow, Mussolini’s hanging was seen as cause for celebration rather than mourning, and the day that Mad Bob shuffles off into the unknown is unlikely to be seen as an event worth mourning by anybody other than his corrupt cronies in Zimbabwe and South Africa. While Manto wasn’t quite in the same league as those dictators, I’m certainly not going to start pumping out crocodile tears now that she’s gone, and, apart from loyal ANC members and Dave Harris, I suspect that most South Africans feel the same. The Sunday Times got it right. Manto was a drunk and a thief. She also callously condemned hundreds of thousands of South Africans to death, and turned our country into an international laughing stock with her garlic and beetroot treatment regime. Why should we suddenly pretend otherwise? Nobody accuses Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini’s critics of insensitivity when they speak ill of the dead.
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Insensitive, very much so!
What is wrong with the people these days?
It is such a worrying trend that it is white people who are so insensitive in this country. Anything black is viewed with disdain, save Mandela and Tutu.
well said, Foster. Manto was badmouthed by all and sundry - including me - while she was alive. to sing her praises just because she’s finally croaked would be hypocritical. with any luck, wherever she’s gone now, her reception committee will comprise all those people who died because she led the department that refused them treatment.
Agreed, on her watch she was responsible for the policies regarding HIV and she ensured that hundreds of thousands of people died prematurely or unjustifiable deaths. On her watch the health system slid into anarchy and a complete sham. Life expectancy for children dropped dramatically and all essential medical services went from first world to third world. She was a thief and alcoholic who did not bat an eyelid while sentencing people to death. In my books she is no different to Himmler, Goebbels, Stalin, Pol Pot, Gheorghe Gheorghiu or Mao Tse-Tung. To think that she will receive a funeral befitting a royal when those she condemned have nothing put a small cross and their orphans to remember them.
@Michel - why do you think that white people are insensitive just because a couple of white guys are. You must be a racist if that is the way you think.
A racist finds a racial solution to a situation before other more obvious solutions are accepted.
Hence Gavin and Gareth are insensitive and you are racist.
Those close by will mourn and that is their right to do so. However, in public life she was a classic example of one who was promoted to a level of incompetence. Few will mourn her, but many will bid good riddance to a minister who pushed our health system down the slippery slope we find ourselves in today! Gareth, your right to freedom of opinion is entrenched in the same constitution that protects against hate speech. Don’t make any snivelling apologies. Walk tall under the same constitution we now all have to live by and see if the judges will be able tell the difference between hate speech and opinion - and the freedom to express it!!!
Well said article..and well put “Exiled”.
If only the hundreds of thousands that she chose to be “condemned”..had access to the internet or some voice that might be heard…I would like to hear their comments. A tribute or some recognition to those that knowingly and silently suffered and died and still continue to … would be a damn lot more meaningful and appropriate…
@ shaz: “to sing her praises just because she’s finally croaked would be hypocritical.”
You’re talking unadulterated nonsense. I still have to hear someone saying we should sing her praises because she’s dead. Showing compassion isn’t the same as “singing her praises”.
Got what she deserved! The liver she stole could have saved a more deserving life. That’s one more life on a non-existant conscience! I am black, and proud to be such, but I won’t tolerate it just because we have the same skin colour. She is responsible for what she did, and ought to be answerable for that.
Death does not bestow sainthood. Manto’ decisions were politically expedient; they were not based on medical or ethical considerations. Her argument against ARVs was entirely spurious. Of course, ARVs are somewhat toxic to the system but they were the best treatment available and the medical evidence was clear: ARVs slowed the progress of HIV/AIDS just as chemo-therapy is toxic but slows or even halts the progression of cancers. “As we sew, so shall we reap.”
@Owen
I am observing the trend in this country of how white people always trash anything black, including black customs and culture. We respect people, white people want us to show disrespect. What was written about the late Manto is a gross violation of her dignity and that of her family. Can’t we be humane enough to respect her family?
You are not getting it Gavin,are you.Interesting that it takes some arrogant and patronising bigots to claim some care for the purported 300 000 dead,as if you care.Well ,we all agree about Manto ’s policy indiscretions.But that’s not the only part to her.She was a mother to somebody, a human to her people,a struggle veteran who dedicated half of her life to the course of her people.Talking about unintended consequences.I understand where you are from,it would’nt matter to you,you stand on the other side.Manto,agree or not deserves some respect.What is wrong with you white people.You take any chance to condesce,fire and discharge your world of racial hate whenever the chance present itself.But expect forgiveness,sow hate and hide behind freedom of speech and patronising care for’her people’.Atrocious article.
@ Match and Vusi
What’s racist about this? Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler were all white, and you may have noticed that I say Manto was not -quite - as bad as them. Hitler abhorred alcohol and smoking and loved dogs. He had friends and family who loved him. He loved children. He was white. Should I treat his name with respect and write nice things about him?
The only way you can respond is to allege racism. If you used a little logic in your arguments I’d be prepared to respect your views.
As in every person there is Manto the human being and Manto the politician. As a fellow human being we cannot put her down, after all we do not know what she was really like beneath the politicians’s veneer. Her family may know but even they could not look into her soul. As the human being dies, the politician leaves a legacy behind. I will not comment on the latter as a lot will be true and a lot will be hearsay. Every death, how eagerly or fearfully awaited is a little human tragedy: from a thinking, reasoning complex mechanism one becomes a cadaver to be put away soonest lest the stench of decay offends the living. Nobody but One has come to life again after death to judge the living and the dead, including Manto. And ourselves, in time. Maybe she sought to put things right just before the end, there are reports about it. But what we have done is done: the film of our life cannot be respooled. Mistakes, deliberate or accidentally cannot be made undone, however much we would wish to. But we can learn from our own, and Manto’s mistakes and that, my friends I would hope is her legacy. For the rest RIP.
Gavin,is it not ironic that most black South Africans(radio/print)have been outraged by Garreth Cliff’s detestable comments.While most whites think this is a mere freedom of expression.Your failure to accord respect to Manto’s family suggest something more than it meets an eye.When Malema spews the bile,these are the very first to cry racism fowl and hate speech.When the shoe is on the other side,well she deserves it.Gavin you know better,this country comes afar.Yes Manto bungled,but some of us know where she comes from and it means a lot to us.Not that it overrides her role in HIV/Aids but sensible balance and compassion would do.Respect Gavin is all I am asking.This is not about cultural differences but an exclusive racial approach.I would understand a reactionary young white man.That a heavily bearded mature person you are can;t find such nasty comments unbecoming suggest that this is no longer about Aids policy but something else.Gavin this was a human,gran,wife and mother to humans.No laboraty test is needed to prove this,common sense and what we know about hiprocracy of our society lends credence to the racist issue.
Surely it is not the same situation when “Malema spews the bile” vs “hen the shoe is on the other side, well she deserves it”.
Should I not treat someone who spits on me, different to someone who helps me when I am in distress. Manto has left this country in serious distress and should be remebered for this. Malema is spitting on anything “white” because in his rascist mind “anything black” is better than “anything white”. A classic description in accordance with the definition given by the Oxford English Dictionary.
Manto’s behaviour in life has had fatal consequences for hundreds of thousands of people whom she never even met! They suffered more and died sooner than they would have done if Manto/Mbeki had taken a rational view of the effectiveness of AZT and ARVs.
The real issue for both Manto and Mbeki was that the drugs came from ‘European’ pharmaceutical companies. These companies were ‘white’ in that they weren’t African in origin. Never mind that their research and development people came from all over the globe.
M&M were using HIV/AIDS as a political stick to beat the ‘white capitalists’ with. Never mind that the Gates Foundation and former U.S. President Jimmy Carter negotiated a massive programme of free drugs for SA including training for clinic workers who would oversee the administration of the daily medications. Never mind that the Soros Foundation did something similar. Never mind that sub-Saharan had– and still has– the highest HIV infection rate in the world M&M refused even free drugs whilst at the same time castigating the pharmaceutical companies for ‘over-charging’ for HIV/AIDS treatment. Their rationale? The drugs were ‘toxic’. But refusal of treatment was not toxic? That’s M&M speak. When all else fails accuse ‘the West’ of plotting to kill Africans with ‘toxic’ drugs.
The truth is that Manto and Mbeki were ‘toxic’ to this country. Death is not instant canonisation. Our deeds outlive us. That is Manto’s legacy.
insensitivity by the previously advantaged minors is coming to an end, the day we unite and forget the lessons of Mandela is near. The statements made by these people are the reasons conciliation is such a hard pill to swallow and why the majority are. listening to people like Julius Malema. Nobody is saying you should glorify the woman, just shut up if you don’t have anything nice to say. I didn’t particularly like the woman or her policies but you’re not going to catch me doing the jig on her gravestone!
Match is one of these dreamers who thinks that having a black skin acts like a magic force-field to shield you from any criticism penned or spoken by a white person.
Here’s a newsflash, Match: just as what blacks are allowed (and are actively encouraged) to criticise whites, so too are whites allowed to criticise blacks.
No, they do NOT have to get your permission first. It’s a revolutionary concept called “free speech”.
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Durban photojournalist Gavin Foster writes mainly for magazines. His articles and photographs have appeared in dozens of South African, American and British publications, and he's also instigated and researched stories for Carte Blanche.
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well said!
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