<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: (Mis)understanding ubuntu: A reply</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: mgeve</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-89222</link>
		<dc:creator>mgeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-89222</guid>
		<description>Hola Nonke!!
Old habits die hard. We have an issue here of projection and image of history. Culture therefore is the totality of group of all these human experiences, as per person, family, nation, Global humans. By the way, has anyone noticed that we are hanging in space in relation to all the other objects and phenomenon in the Universe? By creating  a full understanding of one another and not handcuffing other cultures from redefining themselves, could help a great deal. African History and African Culture have a rightful place in the annals of World history. It is therefore important to  recognize the reality that there is what is called African History and Culture; a lot of scholarship has been published and on video; DVD, etc.  A lot of people need to go and look for the Openheimer Library  and look into the shelves and pull books, out... In New York, go to the Schomburg Library and pull out books there; or, University Libraries, well stocked with books. Visit B&amp;Bs, get to live intimately with African Families- which will help to learn about Africans in South Africa. Talking  today, Most other races will be hard-pressed to see that we are constantly burying our African people at an alarming rate; People are building their houses; most streets are being tarred; Some housing units, roads, and so forth are being built(for 2010). Poor people coping with joblessness, Paidelectricity/water; poverty; disease, hope/Living there would help, dis-entangle cultural ubuntu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hola Nonke!!<br />
Old habits die hard. We have an issue here of projection and image of history. Culture therefore is the totality of group of all these human experiences, as per person, family, nation, Global humans. By the way, has anyone noticed that we are hanging in space in relation to all the other objects and phenomenon in the Universe? By creating  a full understanding of one another and not handcuffing other cultures from redefining themselves, could help a great deal. African History and African Culture have a rightful place in the annals of World history. It is therefore important to  recognize the reality that there is what is called African History and Culture; a lot of scholarship has been published and on video; DVD, etc.  A lot of people need to go and look for the Openheimer Library  and look into the shelves and pull books, out&#8230; In New York, go to the Schomburg Library and pull out books there; or, University Libraries, well stocked with books. Visit B&amp;Bs, get to live intimately with African Families- which will help to learn about Africans in South Africa. Talking  today, Most other races will be hard-pressed to see that we are constantly burying our African people at an alarming rate; People are building their houses; most streets are being tarred; Some housing units, roads, and so forth are being built(for 2010). Poor people coping with joblessness, Paidelectricity/water; poverty; disease, hope/Living there would help, dis-entangle cultural ubuntu</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sunchild</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-29340</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-29340</guid>
		<description>Some things dont change, and your words have given me some reasurance that I am not alone. My email is now compromised, and microsoft are still wondering how I managed to remove my computer from their registered list of XP2003. 

Ready to start another chanllenge - I am getting bored. Thank you for your guidance. You write good stories. Like the staff of the new organisations that pursue the higher arts - and sharing that instead. Much more sensible.

Knowledge to free. Wisdom came first.
Rachel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some things dont change, and your words have given me some reasurance that I am not alone. My email is now compromised, and microsoft are still wondering how I managed to remove my computer from their registered list of XP2003. </p>
<p>Ready to start another chanllenge &#8211; I am getting bored. Thank you for your guidance. You write good stories. Like the staff of the new organisations that pursue the higher arts &#8211; and sharing that instead. Much more sensible.</p>
<p>Knowledge to free. Wisdom came first.<br />
Rachel</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21907</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21907</guid>
		<description>Skizo
Every culture and tribe in the whole world was conquered by the same thing - superior weapons. Until the Atom bomb, when &quot;They&quot; (the politicians and Generals) realised &quot;they&quot; might get themselves killed. Shaka developed a better spear and impi formation and conquered other black tribes, till his tribe was conquered by guns.

Daniel
Japan is a small country with large cities with millions of people living in them, yet the water running through their second largest city is pure, and their environment is preserved. I don&#039;t know that we are doing better. They are an interesting people. Their language has no indigeneous swearwords, and relates to no other language in the world.

Consulting Engineer
Got the message - and your point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skizo<br />
Every culture and tribe in the whole world was conquered by the same thing &#8211; superior weapons. Until the Atom bomb, when &#8220;They&#8221; (the politicians and Generals) realised &#8220;they&#8221; might get themselves killed. Shaka developed a better spear and impi formation and conquered other black tribes, till his tribe was conquered by guns.</p>
<p>Daniel<br />
Japan is a small country with large cities with millions of people living in them, yet the water running through their second largest city is pure, and their environment is preserved. I don&#8217;t know that we are doing better. They are an interesting people. Their language has no indigeneous swearwords, and relates to no other language in the world.</p>
<p>Consulting Engineer<br />
Got the message &#8211; and your point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21904</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21904</guid>
		<description>@lynnedt - as a Christian myself, I agree with you that Ubuntu seems to echo the second of the &quot;two laws of Christianity&quot;.

I see these problems with Ubuntu:

What if you do not want to be part of the &quot;collective we are&quot;.  Will Ubuntu, as it is implemented, protect you and respect your right not to be part of it?  Or, as happened in my experience, will you be sidelined and excluded from the community?

Re: Felas comments:
In 40 years of living in rurual KwaZulu-Natal, I never heard of white people in South Africa referred to as anything other than &quot;umlungu&quot;.   Felas points out that white people have to prove that they have Ubuntu before they will be called &quot;umuntu&quot; (but all blacks are automatically &quot;umuntu&quot;).  This accords with my experience.  So to become accepted as a part of the Ubuntu community you first have to prove you have it.  So as a white person I am automatically excluded from being part of Ubuntu (called an &quot;umlungu&quot;) until I prove that I should be part of it.  That exclusion is based on my skin colour and ignorance about my beliefs.  

Ubuntu has the potential for exclusion from the community, and therefore has the potential to be racist, and I have to say that in my experience in South Africa, that is how it is implemented.

I dearly love the principle and would love to see South Africans embracing Ubuntu (or Christianity) to see in each fellow African another human being &quot;only&quot;, and despite the good that is being done(such as on Thought Leader), I fear that that day if far, far away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lynnedt &#8211; as a Christian myself, I agree with you that Ubuntu seems to echo the second of the &#8220;two laws of Christianity&#8221;.</p>
<p>I see these problems with Ubuntu:</p>
<p>What if you do not want to be part of the &#8220;collective we are&#8221;.  Will Ubuntu, as it is implemented, protect you and respect your right not to be part of it?  Or, as happened in my experience, will you be sidelined and excluded from the community?</p>
<p>Re: Felas comments:<br />
In 40 years of living in rurual KwaZulu-Natal, I never heard of white people in South Africa referred to as anything other than &#8220;umlungu&#8221;.   Felas points out that white people have to prove that they have Ubuntu before they will be called &#8220;umuntu&#8221; (but all blacks are automatically &#8220;umuntu&#8221;).  This accords with my experience.  So to become accepted as a part of the Ubuntu community you first have to prove you have it.  So as a white person I am automatically excluded from being part of Ubuntu (called an &#8220;umlungu&#8221;) until I prove that I should be part of it.  That exclusion is based on my skin colour and ignorance about my beliefs.  </p>
<p>Ubuntu has the potential for exclusion from the community, and therefore has the potential to be racist, and I have to say that in my experience in South Africa, that is how it is implemented.</p>
<p>I dearly love the principle and would love to see South Africans embracing Ubuntu (or Christianity) to see in each fellow African another human being &#8220;only&#8221;, and despite the good that is being done(such as on Thought Leader), I fear that that day if far, far away.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex Smit-Stachowski</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21872</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Smit-Stachowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21872</guid>
		<description>A thoughtful blog, thanks.

As an African now living abroad, I know that Ubuntu is real - whenever any Africans meet and sit down - they share the same values (family, work, doing their best, security) and spread brotherhood (in a non-sexist way) amongst themselves. Last year I was in Dubai on business, I rounded together my fellow Africans (two Nigerians, three South Africans and one Kenyan) - there were two whites in the mix, and we assembled an informal African Union for one lunch. We talked about our families, our social values and despite not knowing each other from a bar of soap - had Ubuntu in common.

No preaching, it just was. Sometimes I think we talk around the issues when we should step back and realise, we&#039;ve actually achieved a helluva lot in South Africa and as African, we should stop in-fighting and rather be proud of our achievement and show the world we&#039;re better than the CNN &quot;dying Aids baby&quot; myth they love perpetuating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A thoughtful blog, thanks.</p>
<p>As an African now living abroad, I know that Ubuntu is real &#8211; whenever any Africans meet and sit down &#8211; they share the same values (family, work, doing their best, security) and spread brotherhood (in a non-sexist way) amongst themselves. Last year I was in Dubai on business, I rounded together my fellow Africans (two Nigerians, three South Africans and one Kenyan) &#8211; there were two whites in the mix, and we assembled an informal African Union for one lunch. We talked about our families, our social values and despite not knowing each other from a bar of soap &#8211; had Ubuntu in common.</p>
<p>No preaching, it just was. Sometimes I think we talk around the issues when we should step back and realise, we&#8217;ve actually achieved a helluva lot in South Africa and as African, we should stop in-fighting and rather be proud of our achievement and show the world we&#8217;re better than the CNN &#8220;dying Aids baby&#8221; myth they love perpetuating.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stevenstoneu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21861</link>
		<dc:creator>stevenstoneu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21861</guid>
		<description>and foxes up to for the it&#039;s name I still by themselves suggested personalities. musician, I noticed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and foxes up to for the it&#8217;s name I still by themselves suggested personalities. musician, I noticed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Johan</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21859</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21859</guid>
		<description>Ah, it makes sense now, im enlightened...
I am who I am because of others around me; I am because we are. 
That explains the sheep mentality! And the penny drops. I am eternally grateful! Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, it makes sense now, im enlightened&#8230;<br />
I am who I am because of others around me; I am because we are.<br />
That explains the sheep mentality! And the penny drops. I am eternally grateful! Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Consulting Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21841</link>
		<dc:creator>Consulting Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21841</guid>
		<description>Ubuntu will save us. hallelujah! Its just the latest myth being peddled as a glib and easy answer to the problems of the most backwards and failed continent on the globe. 

The continent and this country are on the verge of imploding from corruption, crime and mismanagement and since independence African leaders have been trying to give content to invented myths of recapturing African heritage.

In the 1960s and 1970s it was freedom, slavery, colonialism, redistribution of wealth and socialist co-operative measures...blah blah.

Various models of African socialism in Tanzania, Zambia, Burkina Faso etc resulted in failed states.

Later it was &#039;democracy&#039; african style, with one party states or one party in power for life, like the ANC.

We also saw  pan-Africanism, African re-awakening, Rastafarianism, Black Consciousness, people&#039;s democracy, the African Renassance (which takes SA back to the dark ages without power), Empires (The Central African Empire), Warlords, dictators, tribalism. Its all a failure. Now we are fed uBuntu.

Africa has a capability within its cultural and intellectual traditions to clothe an invented myth in the powerful garb of an encompassing political framework in order to orientate Africans along new political lines so that their dignity could be restored.

When will the continent stop seeking to blame colonialism, neo-colonialism, Apartheid blah blah and whitey for its ills?

When will it realise we don&#039;t need words like uBuntu, we need good governance, a stop to crime and corruption, and the removal of the idiotic that passes for government and leadership in Africa.

For all the greed, evil, racism, lack of uBuntu etc. of the white man, and whatever other BS people want to peddle, Europe, america and Australia succeeded did they not? Their was good goverance and the people prospered.

uBuntu is the latest smoke and mirrors used to cover up failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ubuntu will save us. hallelujah! Its just the latest myth being peddled as a glib and easy answer to the problems of the most backwards and failed continent on the globe. </p>
<p>The continent and this country are on the verge of imploding from corruption, crime and mismanagement and since independence African leaders have been trying to give content to invented myths of recapturing African heritage.</p>
<p>In the 1960s and 1970s it was freedom, slavery, colonialism, redistribution of wealth and socialist co-operative measures&#8230;blah blah.</p>
<p>Various models of African socialism in Tanzania, Zambia, Burkina Faso etc resulted in failed states.</p>
<p>Later it was &#8216;democracy&#8217; african style, with one party states or one party in power for life, like the ANC.</p>
<p>We also saw  pan-Africanism, African re-awakening, Rastafarianism, Black Consciousness, people&#8217;s democracy, the African Renassance (which takes SA back to the dark ages without power), Empires (The Central African Empire), Warlords, dictators, tribalism. Its all a failure. Now we are fed uBuntu.</p>
<p>Africa has a capability within its cultural and intellectual traditions to clothe an invented myth in the powerful garb of an encompassing political framework in order to orientate Africans along new political lines so that their dignity could be restored.</p>
<p>When will the continent stop seeking to blame colonialism, neo-colonialism, Apartheid blah blah and whitey for its ills?</p>
<p>When will it realise we don&#8217;t need words like uBuntu, we need good governance, a stop to crime and corruption, and the removal of the idiotic that passes for government and leadership in Africa.</p>
<p>For all the greed, evil, racism, lack of uBuntu etc. of the white man, and whatever other BS people want to peddle, Europe, america and Australia succeeded did they not? Their was good goverance and the people prospered.</p>
<p>uBuntu is the latest smoke and mirrors used to cover up failure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21815</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21815</guid>
		<description>Ubuntu, like many beneficial humanity driven ideologies, is redundant in this globalising and ever consumerist dispensation.  I live in Japan and there is a kind of Ubuntu in operation here.  However, it is not inclusive of people outside of Japanese society.  This kind of Ubuntu is what Sandile is talking about and it only works in homogenous societies.  In a globalising world, Ubuntu has to shift its identity or otherwise face the severe constraints that Japanese society has imposed on itself with total isolation.  This route is not sustainable, even the Japanese Government will concede that.  South Africa, in many respects, is leaps and bounds ahead of Japan as a result of our heterogeneous demographic composition.  South Africans now need to turn this strength into something more positive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ubuntu, like many beneficial humanity driven ideologies, is redundant in this globalising and ever consumerist dispensation.  I live in Japan and there is a kind of Ubuntu in operation here.  However, it is not inclusive of people outside of Japanese society.  This kind of Ubuntu is what Sandile is talking about and it only works in homogenous societies.  In a globalising world, Ubuntu has to shift its identity or otherwise face the severe constraints that Japanese society has imposed on itself with total isolation.  This route is not sustainable, even the Japanese Government will concede that.  South Africa, in many respects, is leaps and bounds ahead of Japan as a result of our heterogeneous demographic composition.  South Africans now need to turn this strength into something more positive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alisdair Budd</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/comment-page-1/#comment-21800</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisdair Budd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/dumisanimagadlela/2008/03/16/mis-understanding-ubuntu-a-reply/#comment-21800</guid>
		<description>You use rather a lot of words to mean &quot;respect&quot;, &quot;humanity&quot; and &quot;community feeling&quot;.

Seems that SA is in a bad way if it has to be explained to them what they are.

Or invent a new word for them since the old ones aren&#039;t good enough.

Uhuru.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You use rather a lot of words to mean &#8220;respect&#8221;, &#8220;humanity&#8221; and &#8220;community feeling&#8221;.</p>
<p>Seems that SA is in a bad way if it has to be explained to them what they are.</p>
<p>Or invent a new word for them since the old ones aren&#8217;t good enough.</p>
<p>Uhuru.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

