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	<title>Comments on: Can Western civilisation survive without religion?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/</link>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-50959</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-50959</guid>
		<description>Herewith a quote from the nobel laureate Steven Weinberg:

&quot;Irrespective of religion, good people do good deeds and bad people do evil deeds; but for good people to do evil deeds, that takes religion.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herewith a quote from the nobel laureate Steven Weinberg:</p>
<p>&#8220;Irrespective of religion, good people do good deeds and bad people do evil deeds; but for good people to do evil deeds, that takes religion.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: graham</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-49573</link>
		<dc:creator>graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-49573</guid>
		<description>Can I suggest Sam Harris&#039; &#039;End of Faith.&#039; He argues not that western civilisation is dependant on religion (a desperate claim to make), but rather that religion is actually the biggest threat not just to western civilisation, but civilisation worldwide.

In a nutshell, his point is that in a world where the majority of people believe that the end of civilization will herald the return of Jesus (ostensibly a good thing) what incentive is there for them respond to the threats posed by global warming or the use of nuclear weapons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I suggest Sam Harris&#8217; &#8216;End of Faith.&#8217; He argues not that western civilisation is dependant on religion (a desperate claim to make), but rather that religion is actually the biggest threat not just to western civilisation, but civilisation worldwide.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, his point is that in a world where the majority of people believe that the end of civilization will herald the return of Jesus (ostensibly a good thing) what incentive is there for them respond to the threats posed by global warming or the use of nuclear weapons.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-47251</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-47251</guid>
		<description>Babaz

You are correct - but he also DID pay his tax when asked and said &quot;render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar&#039;s, and unto God the things that are God&#039;s&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Babaz</p>
<p>You are correct &#8211; but he also DID pay his tax when asked and said &#8220;render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar&#8217;s, and unto God the things that are God&#8217;s&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: babaz</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-47022</link>
		<dc:creator>babaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-47022</guid>
		<description>David

When the Jewish leaders arrested Jesus, one of His disciples (Peter) drew a sword and tried to defend Jesus. He(Jesus) restored the ear of His attacker and advised Peter that if He(Jesus) wanted He(Jesus) could call on God to send millions of His (God) angel to defend Him(jesus), but He(Jesus) didn&#039;t.

In court before Pilate they asked Jesus if He was a king and He answered that His kingdom was not of this world.

My point is that Jesus the Messiah has called us to look to a kingdom that will come when He comes back again as the King and seats on the right hand of His Father and our Father (God).

So the mandate of the church has always been to point people to Jesus Christ who can forgive their sins and restore their relationships with God and not to regulate, monitor or even influence the moral fibre of nations. 

Such task would then belittle the heavinly mandate for a political mandate, which is the case in most countries in the world that fight in the name of religion today. 

I do not know about other religions, but I know the mandate of the church is heavenly it will be a disaster to diminish it to simply politics</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David</p>
<p>When the Jewish leaders arrested Jesus, one of His disciples (Peter) drew a sword and tried to defend Jesus. He(Jesus) restored the ear of His attacker and advised Peter that if He(Jesus) wanted He(Jesus) could call on God to send millions of His (God) angel to defend Him(jesus), but He(Jesus) didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>In court before Pilate they asked Jesus if He was a king and He answered that His kingdom was not of this world.</p>
<p>My point is that Jesus the Messiah has called us to look to a kingdom that will come when He comes back again as the King and seats on the right hand of His Father and our Father (God).</p>
<p>So the mandate of the church has always been to point people to Jesus Christ who can forgive their sins and restore their relationships with God and not to regulate, monitor or even influence the moral fibre of nations. </p>
<p>Such task would then belittle the heavinly mandate for a political mandate, which is the case in most countries in the world that fight in the name of religion today. </p>
<p>I do not know about other religions, but I know the mandate of the church is heavenly it will be a disaster to diminish it to simply politics</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall Beddy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-46171</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall Beddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-46171</guid>
		<description>Blacklisted Dictator

Spot on - like this Serbian mass murderer who was teaching spiritual healing! Imagine what his poor patients feel like now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blacklisted Dictator</p>
<p>Spot on &#8211; like this Serbian mass murderer who was teaching spiritual healing! Imagine what his poor patients feel like now!</p>
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		<title>By: BLACKLISTED DICTATOR</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-46135</link>
		<dc:creator>BLACKLISTED DICTATOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-46135</guid>
		<description>ALMOST a third of British Muslim students believe killing in the name of Islam can be justified, according to a poll. The study also found that two in five Muslims at university support the incorporation of Islamic sharia codes into British law.

The YouGov poll for the Centre for Social Cohesion (CSC) will raise concerns about the extent of campus radicalism. “Significant numbers appear to hold beliefs which contravene democratic values,” said Han-nah Stuart, one of the report’s authors. “These results are deeply embarrassing for those who have said there is no extremism in British universities.”

The report was criticised by the country’s largest Muslim student body, Fosis, but Anthony Glees, professor of security and intelligence studies at Buckingham University, said: “The finding that a large number of students think it is okay to kill in the name of religion is alarming. ...

In addition to its poll of 1,400 Muslim and nonMuslim students, the centre visited more than 20 universities to interview students and listen to guest speakers. It found that extremist preachers regularly gave speeches that were inflammatory, homophobic or bordering on antisemitic.

The researchers highlighted Queen Mary college, part of London University, as a campus where radical views were widely held. Last December, a speaker named Abu Mujahid encouraged Muslim students to condemn gays because “Allah hates” homosexuality. In November, Azzam Tamimi, a British-based supporter of Hamas, described Israel as the most “inhumane project in the modern history of humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALMOST a third of British Muslim students believe killing in the name of Islam can be justified, according to a poll. The study also found that two in five Muslims at university support the incorporation of Islamic sharia codes into British law.</p>
<p>The YouGov poll for the Centre for Social Cohesion (CSC) will raise concerns about the extent of campus radicalism. “Significant numbers appear to hold beliefs which contravene democratic values,” said Han-nah Stuart, one of the report’s authors. “These results are deeply embarrassing for those who have said there is no extremism in British universities.”</p>
<p>The report was criticised by the country’s largest Muslim student body, Fosis, but Anthony Glees, professor of security and intelligence studies at Buckingham University, said: “The finding that a large number of students think it is okay to kill in the name of religion is alarming. &#8230;</p>
<p>In addition to its poll of 1,400 Muslim and nonMuslim students, the centre visited more than 20 universities to interview students and listen to guest speakers. It found that extremist preachers regularly gave speeches that were inflammatory, homophobic or bordering on antisemitic.</p>
<p>The researchers highlighted Queen Mary college, part of London University, as a campus where radical views were widely held. Last December, a speaker named Abu Mujahid encouraged Muslim students to condemn gays because “Allah hates” homosexuality. In November, Azzam Tamimi, a British-based supporter of Hamas, described Israel as the most “inhumane project in the modern history of humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: BLACKLISTED DICTATOR</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-46124</link>
		<dc:creator>BLACKLISTED DICTATOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-46124</guid>
		<description>David,

Sex, and its various manifestations, is a &quot;problem&quot; in all societies. Including strict Islamic societies where pornography and homosexuality is unlawful.
I am, moreover, wary of people who preach morality. Usually they are the most depraved. 

Female equality in Western societies, rather than a decline in religion, is the real reason for the declining birth rate. Japan is similarly affected with one of the lowest birth-rates in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Sex, and its various manifestations, is a &#8220;problem&#8221; in all societies. Including strict Islamic societies where pornography and homosexuality is unlawful.<br />
I am, moreover, wary of people who preach morality. Usually they are the most depraved. </p>
<p>Female equality in Western societies, rather than a decline in religion, is the real reason for the declining birth rate. Japan is similarly affected with one of the lowest birth-rates in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Jewish Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-44335</link>
		<dc:creator>Jewish Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-44335</guid>
		<description>@RF

I do not doubt the cruelty of the porn industry. I do not contend that your analysis is wrong. 

And I hate to sound callous, but if you are living in the western world, where big business rules, the abuse and misuse of persons in ALL industries is rife. Whether it is the coffee you are drinking, the carpets you are walking on, the strawberries you are eating - sadly there is abuse. However you drank that coffee today without shame, didn&#039;t you? You and millions of others. 

But my point is, the way I deal with my sexuality will determine how tolerant I am of others. 

I also never said that anyone holding a different view has issues. It is the passion with which one displays one&#039;s different view, as David has done, and the emotive words he used like &quot;scourage&quot;, &quot;debasement&quot; and &quot;brutish&quot; &quot;gratification&quot; which reveal an emotionality often known as projection. Your analysis had a completely different tone. 

And if I am the only one watching porns and noone is going to prostitutes either, then let&#039;s just say I am the only honest one left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RF</p>
<p>I do not doubt the cruelty of the porn industry. I do not contend that your analysis is wrong. </p>
<p>And I hate to sound callous, but if you are living in the western world, where big business rules, the abuse and misuse of persons in ALL industries is rife. Whether it is the coffee you are drinking, the carpets you are walking on, the strawberries you are eating &#8211; sadly there is abuse. However you drank that coffee today without shame, didn&#8217;t you? You and millions of others. </p>
<p>But my point is, the way I deal with my sexuality will determine how tolerant I am of others. </p>
<p>I also never said that anyone holding a different view has issues. It is the passion with which one displays one&#8217;s different view, as David has done, and the emotive words he used like &#8220;scourage&#8221;, &#8220;debasement&#8221; and &#8220;brutish&#8221; &#8220;gratification&#8221; which reveal an emotionality often known as projection. Your analysis had a completely different tone. </p>
<p>And if I am the only one watching porns and noone is going to prostitutes either, then let&#8217;s just say I am the only honest one left.</p>
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		<title>By: S is For &#8230; &#171; Antibloggergirldc&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-44237</link>
		<dc:creator>S is For &#8230; &#171; Antibloggergirldc&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-44237</guid>
		<description>[...] our cultural differences aren&#8217;t so far apart. Even in advertisements. On one post discussing religious issues there was an ad for an online Muslim marriage service followed a few paragraphs later by on online [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our cultural differences aren&#8217;t so far apart. Even in advertisements. On one post discussing religious issues there was an ad for an online Muslim marriage service followed a few paragraphs later by on online [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jean</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-44235</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/davidsaks/2008/07/10/can-western-civilization-survive-without-religion/#comment-44235</guid>
		<description>&#039;The official acceptance of homosexuality, to a degree not seen since the Roman era, is another sign of the times. Whatever one’s convictions on “gay rights” questions, it does not take a Mensa IQ to realise that procreation is not going to result from such liaisons. &#039;

Mr Saks,

while not homosexual myself I do loathe bad reasoning. The logical conclusion to your above comment is that homosexual intercourse is wrong because it cannot create life. If intercourse is simply to create life, then we must accept that heterosexual intercourse between couples who are infertile is also wrong because it does not create life; that heterosexual intercourse between partners after menopause is thus also wrong because it does not create life. 

Have you ever considered that its this kind of simplistic and flawed reasoning which emerges from a stubborn refusal to accept that the scriptures are sometimes just wrong, that results in religion becoming the taboo it is today in modern, well-educated, wealthy societies.

What is it with religion&#039;s aversion to sex? Is it because it awakens those primal instincts within us, reminding us that we are actually not that different from non-human animals. Save perhaps for our evolved ability to reason; or, at the very least, or attempts to reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;The official acceptance of homosexuality, to a degree not seen since the Roman era, is another sign of the times. Whatever one’s convictions on “gay rights” questions, it does not take a Mensa IQ to realise that procreation is not going to result from such liaisons. &#8216;</p>
<p>Mr Saks,</p>
<p>while not homosexual myself I do loathe bad reasoning. The logical conclusion to your above comment is that homosexual intercourse is wrong because it cannot create life. If intercourse is simply to create life, then we must accept that heterosexual intercourse between couples who are infertile is also wrong because it does not create life; that heterosexual intercourse between partners after menopause is thus also wrong because it does not create life. </p>
<p>Have you ever considered that its this kind of simplistic and flawed reasoning which emerges from a stubborn refusal to accept that the scriptures are sometimes just wrong, that results in religion becoming the taboo it is today in modern, well-educated, wealthy societies.</p>
<p>What is it with religion&#8217;s aversion to sex? Is it because it awakens those primal instincts within us, reminding us that we are actually not that different from non-human animals. Save perhaps for our evolved ability to reason; or, at the very least, or attempts to reason.</p>
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