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	<title>Comments on: White privilege and the ANC</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/</link>
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		<title>By: goolam_d</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-3/#comment-17319</link>
		<dc:creator>goolam_d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-17319</guid>
		<description>Excellent. Without over-racialising the facts .. privilege does seem to foster respect where it&#039;s own institutionalised privilege is not compromised. We often here that Unionisation is a bad thing or bad when it doesn&#039;t follow business&#039;s rules. Government is bad when it caters for the masses aka government is bad because it can&#039;t meet the needs of the people. While I agree that we are at risk and &quot;true&quot; debate is necessary, I will not side with the boy who cried savage and demean the very valuable revolution that has taken place. Frankly, hungry masses care about as much for freedom of expression as &quot;liberal&#039; media cares for the hungry masses. In my opinion .. Come to terms with your own selfishness and the view will balance out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent. Without over-racialising the facts .. privilege does seem to foster respect where it&#8217;s own institutionalised privilege is not compromised. We often here that Unionisation is a bad thing or bad when it doesn&#8217;t follow business&#8217;s rules. Government is bad when it caters for the masses aka government is bad because it can&#8217;t meet the needs of the people. While I agree that we are at risk and &#8220;true&#8221; debate is necessary, I will not side with the boy who cried savage and demean the very valuable revolution that has taken place. Frankly, hungry masses care about as much for freedom of expression as &#8220;liberal&#8217; media cares for the hungry masses. In my opinion .. Come to terms with your own selfishness and the view will balance out.</p>
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		<title>By: mww</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-3/#comment-17287</link>
		<dc:creator>mww</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-17287</guid>
		<description>Instead of people trying to out do each other in terms of their culture, squabbling like two year olds over a toy, why don&#039;t they try and find the good in each, assimilate it and throw out the bad. Cross cultural exchange has been going on for centuries, people from one another and their differences. Apartheid or not, this country is what it is today because of all it&#039;s people, black, brown and white. Whites need to aknowledge the evils of Apartheid and the fact that the inequalities of the past need to be addressed. Blacks need to aknowledge that not all they&#039;ve inherited is bad. Not all whites are trying to bring them down and maybe they can learn something. Vice Versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of people trying to out do each other in terms of their culture, squabbling like two year olds over a toy, why don&#8217;t they try and find the good in each, assimilate it and throw out the bad. Cross cultural exchange has been going on for centuries, people from one another and their differences. Apartheid or not, this country is what it is today because of all it&#8217;s people, black, brown and white. Whites need to aknowledge the evils of Apartheid and the fact that the inequalities of the past need to be addressed. Blacks need to aknowledge that not all they&#8217;ve inherited is bad. Not all whites are trying to bring them down and maybe they can learn something. Vice Versa.</p>
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		<title>By: Lebohang</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14927</link>
		<dc:creator>Lebohang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14927</guid>
		<description>Thank you Christi,this is a stunning exposition of the mechanics of race and power relations in this country. The role of white capital cannot be underestmiated in suBugating  the Africa majority. And why do we feel the need to continue apologising for speaking truth to White power?

You are courageous and principled

Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Christi,this is a stunning exposition of the mechanics of race and power relations in this country. The role of white capital cannot be underestmiated in suBugating  the Africa majority. And why do we feel the need to continue apologising for speaking truth to White power?</p>
<p>You are courageous and principled</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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		<title>By: XNM</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14898</link>
		<dc:creator>XNM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14898</guid>
		<description>Both of these races you referring to consulting engineer despite using a derogatory term &quot;negroid&quot; are indigenous Africans period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both of these races you referring to consulting engineer despite using a derogatory term &#8220;negroid&#8221; are indigenous Africans period.</p>
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		<title>By: brent</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14765</link>
		<dc:creator>brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14765</guid>
		<description>&#039;This is untenable. Zimbabwe has shown how the perpetuation of white privilege and lack of redress (in their case land ownership) can supply ideological ammunition for an anti-democratic project&#039;

This statement seems to be fact but an examination of &#039;other&#039; facts says otherwise. I have seen Zimbabwe&#039;s 1979 Dept of Agriculture&#039;s annual report and plan for the future; there is not one page, one paragraph, one line or even one word on farm and land re-distribution. Then suddenly less than a year later it becomes the main Govt policy, not to redress the land issue (40% of white owned farm land was purchased after independance in 1980) but solely to preserve Magabe in power as he had just lost a referendum. Nothing more nothing less no matter how much intellectuals jap on and over analyse, holding on to power is the cause and reason for Zim&#039;s decent into chaos. The same is happening in Kenya and there is no white ownership of land/farms to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;This is untenable. Zimbabwe has shown how the perpetuation of white privilege and lack of redress (in their case land ownership) can supply ideological ammunition for an anti-democratic project&#8217;</p>
<p>This statement seems to be fact but an examination of &#8216;other&#8217; facts says otherwise. I have seen Zimbabwe&#8217;s 1979 Dept of Agriculture&#8217;s annual report and plan for the future; there is not one page, one paragraph, one line or even one word on farm and land re-distribution. Then suddenly less than a year later it becomes the main Govt policy, not to redress the land issue (40% of white owned farm land was purchased after independance in 1980) but solely to preserve Magabe in power as he had just lost a referendum. Nothing more nothing less no matter how much intellectuals jap on and over analyse, holding on to power is the cause and reason for Zim&#8217;s decent into chaos. The same is happening in Kenya and there is no white ownership of land/farms to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: cool down.</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14305</link>
		<dc:creator>cool down.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14305</guid>
		<description>Boginkosi

You cannot conclude that finds you are referring
were the origin of the &#039;black people&#039;.They are
more likely to be the ancestors of people
your ancestors disposed of their tribal land!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boginkosi</p>
<p>You cannot conclude that finds you are referring<br />
were the origin of the &#8216;black people&#8217;.They are<br />
more likely to be the ancestors of people<br />
your ancestors disposed of their tribal land!!</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14301</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14301</guid>
		<description>In every crime against humanity to-date, the perpetrators have been tried with specific instances, eg genocide or specific murders or actions, they have been convicted or acquitted and compensation payed when due.

Our Country is the only case where people, as an entirety, based on the color of their skin, have been convicted without trial, and are being forced to pay compensation - read - waive human rights and dignity. Are forced to apologize for a crime which they are accused of without any recourse , without any opportunity at defense - purely because they are white, they should without reserve plead guilty and be sentenced as such.

This is an atrocity beyond imagination, black victims of apartheid are acknowledged as victims but the condemnantion of whites to a status of convicted criminals without trial is something that the civilized world needs to take stock of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In every crime against humanity to-date, the perpetrators have been tried with specific instances, eg genocide or specific murders or actions, they have been convicted or acquitted and compensation payed when due.</p>
<p>Our Country is the only case where people, as an entirety, based on the color of their skin, have been convicted without trial, and are being forced to pay compensation &#8211; read &#8211; waive human rights and dignity. Are forced to apologize for a crime which they are accused of without any recourse , without any opportunity at defense &#8211; purely because they are white, they should without reserve plead guilty and be sentenced as such.</p>
<p>This is an atrocity beyond imagination, black victims of apartheid are acknowledged as victims but the condemnantion of whites to a status of convicted criminals without trial is something that the civilized world needs to take stock of.</p>
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		<title>By: Consulting Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14182</link>
		<dc:creator>Consulting Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14182</guid>
		<description>@ Bonginkosi

Who is using old SA history books? look at the latest DNA research in the genotype project. Check out a site on Natioanl Geopgraphic as well on that research. If I recall, Bantus fall in the M type, from the Cameroun Basin, but I can&#039;t remember. I also seem to recall the Venda are different than the rest of SA Black peoples. But can&#039;t remember exactly. I can look it up if you like.

Fact is, every race has been migrants. 
Can you provide any evidence that Negroids were always in SA? I can flood you with scientific research showing you Not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bonginkosi</p>
<p>Who is using old SA history books? look at the latest DNA research in the genotype project. Check out a site on Natioanl Geopgraphic as well on that research. If I recall, Bantus fall in the M type, from the Cameroun Basin, but I can&#8217;t remember. I also seem to recall the Venda are different than the rest of SA Black peoples. But can&#8217;t remember exactly. I can look it up if you like.</p>
<p>Fact is, every race has been migrants.<br />
Can you provide any evidence that Negroids were always in SA? I can flood you with scientific research showing you Not.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonginkosi</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14125</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonginkosi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14125</guid>
		<description>Yes, in the &#039;old&#039; history books, we were told that Ngunis are migrants.  I actually stopped believing that about 25 years ago.  It is a fiction that was created to &#039;equate&#039; the newcomer status of the colonialist to us.  We were never migrants, ever.  There is just way too much archeological evidence against this theory for any true thinker to believe it.  Yes indeed, my people, only the likes of Consulting Engineer, mr racial purity himself, would believe that.  (Sorry, Mr Engineer, you give engineers like myself a bad name actually.)

White power lives on in subtle and infuriating ways.  To the Black people, the language, the gestures, the raising of the eyebrow etc. which those of us who grew up way back when are very familar with, is a telling sign that the past is the present.

A useless comment from a cheeky Black like me.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, in the &#8216;old&#8217; history books, we were told that Ngunis are migrants.  I actually stopped believing that about 25 years ago.  It is a fiction that was created to &#8216;equate&#8217; the newcomer status of the colonialist to us.  We were never migrants, ever.  There is just way too much archeological evidence against this theory for any true thinker to believe it.  Yes indeed, my people, only the likes of Consulting Engineer, mr racial purity himself, would believe that.  (Sorry, Mr Engineer, you give engineers like myself a bad name actually.)</p>
<p>White power lives on in subtle and infuriating ways.  To the Black people, the language, the gestures, the raising of the eyebrow etc. which those of us who grew up way back when are very familar with, is a telling sign that the past is the present.</p>
<p>A useless comment from a cheeky Black like me.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Consulting Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/comment-page-2/#comment-14045</link>
		<dc:creator>Consulting Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/christivanderwesthuizen/2008/01/29/whiteprivil_anc/#comment-14045</guid>
		<description>@XNM

The point I was trying to make is that Blacks in South Africa, and Mozambique, Zimbabwe etc, are migraants and colonials as well that moved into the lands of another race, as did whites.

Hence we are both the same and being Black gives no special right in that regard. Maria tried to claim Blacks were indigenous to say some only whites are guilty of taking the land of others. That canard cannot be used to justify anything. 

If you say egyptians are african, and being african gives you rights to move around africa as you pllease, then do they have rights to just move anywhere in africa and take land? Clearly no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@XNM</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make is that Blacks in South Africa, and Mozambique, Zimbabwe etc, are migraants and colonials as well that moved into the lands of another race, as did whites.</p>
<p>Hence we are both the same and being Black gives no special right in that regard. Maria tried to claim Blacks were indigenous to say some only whites are guilty of taking the land of others. That canard cannot be used to justify anything. </p>
<p>If you say egyptians are african, and being african gives you rights to move around africa as you pllease, then do they have rights to just move anywhere in africa and take land? Clearly no.</p>
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