Murder and violent crime in the UK are both at their highest levels ever, while gun ownership has never been lower – the British Olympic pistol team even has to go to Belgium to practise. What now?

Your Unabomber comment displays childish petulence due to an inability to come up with a logical counterpoint.

See also http://www.crimefree.org.za/Twocitiesf.htm

@Charlene. SA’s crime stats have been repeatedly proven to be flawed because many policemen are now so incompetent and corrupt that they a) don’t recognise a murder when they see one and b) are incapable of keeping proper records and submitting them to Pretoria. When a person who has been assaulted, shot or stabbed dies after a day or two, the records are often not altered to reflect a murder.

Then the politicians start fiddling the books to perpetuate the myth that things are getting better…..

Grasping quotes from foreign funded websites like GCA does not bode well for intelligence. Every single sensationalised lie fabricated there to justify it existance has been countered with logical and factual proof. It is said that if one perpetuates a lie long enough it will eventually become the truth.

I believe the responsible use and ownership of firearms are the only remaining option of survival for SA citizens. When a woman is about to be raped, would she prefer to have a gun immediately in her hand or the SAPS on hold on the other side of her Cell. Check this with your wives and daughters.

There is an old adage that is very true:
“you have never lived until you have almost died, for those who fight for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know.”

I have and I do. (If you can;t figure that out your PhD is probably from the EC. (probably your matric as well)

But back to the point, NONE OF YOU ANTI GUN NUTTERS have disproved anything Brett has posted.

yes you have denied what he said and have posted reference to denials but not a single iota of proof in rebuttal.

Typical – GFSA relies (odd ne’?) on LIES AND UNTRUTHS to garner support.

The average response time to a 10111 call is over 4 minutes.

The average response time of a 357 magnum is 1400 Feet Per Second.

Which would you prefer when you, your daughter, your mother, your sister or your father is the victim?

Be honest!

Mr Mpumelelo Mpisi, from the research unit led the presentation

Programme: Visible Policing
The programme had recorded a total of 1 223 505 arrests compared to 1 274 602 in the previous financial year. It also saw the recovery of 13 675 firearms, up from 12 765 firearms recovered in
the 2007/08 financial year. Mr Mpisi said that most of the firearms recovered were R4 and R5 rifles and it was common knowledge that in the majority of robbery cases, R5 rifles were
mostly used. It raised a critical question which was how criminals were getting hold of those weapons since the SAPS was the main custodian of R5 rifles. He said it would be interesting
to know how many of the recovered firearms belonged to SAPS and how many were linked to crime scenes

Charlene, I cited my sources! The article with the comparative homicide noting the drop from 1994-2008 appeared in Business Day! 1994 – 2000, the years coinciding with the fastest drop in the homicide rate, being the years when a million black families acquired licenccccccccced hannnddgggunnnnnnns! You understand? When last did you write for Business Day? One of the most authoritative newspapers in the world? Frankly, Charlene, I put it to you that you have misquoted Bheki Cele! I am no great admirer, but even he is not given to that much exaggeration….

Witless Ol Joe, could you please make a point? Denial ain’t rebuttal, no matter how hysterical.

I have sourced everything I have stated here! Even given you a PMG minute of the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Police’s pre annual-report presentation noting their biggest problem with stolen firearms being from the SAPS! What more do you want? Do you know what happens to people who keep denying reality?

“On Sunday 25 October 2009 at a political rally in Limpopo province, South African President Jacob Zuma publicly raised concerns about the number of firearms in the hands of private citizens.

In a move that is sure to anger the pro-gun lobby, Zuma suggested that a review of legislation governing firearm ownership was necessary in light of the country’s crime challenges and the number of legally owned firearms stolen from citizens. President Zuma’s comments were made in the context of the recent conclusion of a nationwide civilian firearms license renewal process, and legal action against the state by certain firearm owners and firearm interest groups in relation to the consequences of this renewal process.

……(Rudolf Zinn’s research which you either twist or are in denial about is then quoted)……

It is not surprising that according to the SAPS, firearms were used in the commission of 87% of business robberies, 77% of house robberies and 57% of street robberies in the 2008/09 financial year.”

http://www.gca.org.za/Home/tabid/1120/ctl/Details/mid/6094/ItemID/774/language/en-US/Default.aspx

I can accept limited guns with much stricter controls, but More Guns = Less Crime is imbicilic nonsense.

Your camparisons are flawed and you are in denial like a flat earther which you accused me of earlier.

I say I have provided the figures, cited them so you can rebut.

Denial ain’t rebuttal!

How do YOU explain the fact that South Africa’s homicide rate came down as a million black families acquired licenced handguns? How do you explain the fact that the SAPS commit more intimate femicide and violent property crimes with their service firearms than are committed with registered handguns?

What you just admitted to completely negates any moral justification for gun bans and you know it!

I guess your only defence now is to get abusive.

“a staggering 208 090 firearms were lost by, or stolen from licensed gun owners”.

“In recent research exploring the dynamics of house robberies and robbers, Dr. Rudolph Zinn of Unisa found that 97% of respondents used firearms in the commission of their crime. More than half of these perpetrators reported personally stealing licenced firearms.”

http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/208-090-reasons-to-limit-fireararm-posession/

No Guns = Less Crime

Oh, by the way the increase in number of privately owned cars has coincided with a decrease in crime over the last 10 years.

Therefore: More Cars = Less Crime