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	<title>Comments on: Ignoring the math: Political folly from the US to SA</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/</link>
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		<title>By: Hugh Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100898</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/#comment-100898</guid>
		<description>Phillipa Lipinski 
 
Get hold of stats SA and ask how many quailfied trades people have left the country? Then ask  many of those were Black or other than white. You will be shattered at number that have left in the past four years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillipa Lipinski </p>
<p>Get hold of stats SA and ask how many quailfied trades people have left the country? Then ask  many of those were Black or other than white. You will be shattered at number that have left in the past four years.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100895</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/#comment-100895</guid>
		<description>Harris 

It is proven time and again that 10% the population pays the most VAT as they have the disposable income.

Simple maths shows that combined child, disability, education, water and electricity grants are more than the VAT paid by the poor in any calendar year. 

Just find a copy of the last budget at your local newspaper, do the sums yourself and then tell us who pays the balance of the countries needs that the poor also use i.e. Roads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harris </p>
<p>It is proven time and again that 10% the population pays the most VAT as they have the disposable income.</p>
<p>Simple maths shows that combined child, disability, education, water and electricity grants are more than the VAT paid by the poor in any calendar year. </p>
<p>Just find a copy of the last budget at your local newspaper, do the sums yourself and then tell us who pays the balance of the countries needs that the poor also use i.e. Roads.</p>
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		<title>By: peter vlietstra</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100866</link>
		<dc:creator>peter vlietstra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Charlene, the quality of Thought Leader is improved by your contribution. Welcome back and well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlene, the quality of Thought Leader is improved by your contribution. Welcome back and well said.</p>
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		<title>By: feanor</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100817</link>
		<dc:creator>feanor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ Dave – your 3 “statements”

No but common sense does.  They are the most financially capable and as such they can most easily immigrate.  Also generally have the most skills.  

No it does not, but it doesn’t have to.  In any sufficiently advanced economy personal and corporate taxes are highly interlinked.  Extremely co-dependent.  And corporate profitability and continued existence is subject to the availability of skilled labour.

No, but again it doesn’t have to.  VAT is a slightly regressive tax, but the ones in the 40% marginal bracket still pays substantially more than those that do not pay income tax.

You are quibbling over unimportant details rather than arguing your case.  You are playing devil’s advocate for no apparent reason.  Why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dave – your 3 “statements”</p>
<p>No but common sense does.  They are the most financially capable and as such they can most easily immigrate.  Also generally have the most skills.  </p>
<p>No it does not, but it doesn’t have to.  In any sufficiently advanced economy personal and corporate taxes are highly interlinked.  Extremely co-dependent.  And corporate profitability and continued existence is subject to the availability of skilled labour.</p>
<p>No, but again it doesn’t have to.  VAT is a slightly regressive tax, but the ones in the 40% marginal bracket still pays substantially more than those that do not pay income tax.</p>
<p>You are quibbling over unimportant details rather than arguing your case.  You are playing devil’s advocate for no apparent reason.  Why?</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100809</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good article, Charlene, but why do you call the subject &quot;math&quot;, as the Americans call it? We South Africans call it &quot;maths&quot;!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, Charlene, but why do you call the subject &#8220;math&#8221;, as the Americans call it? We South Africans call it &#8220;maths&#8221;!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100769</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting article, however you got some of your facts wrong:

&quot;10.6% of the US’s 250 million people and three million out of work&quot; - The US population is closer to 350 million and the unemployment rate is 10.2%, not 10.6%.

&quot;During his election campaign (Obama), he promised to pull troops out of Iran and Afghanistan and to close Guantanamo Bay, but the man who is this year’s Nobel Peace Prize winner has fulfilled none of those campaign promises&quot; - The withdrawal from Iraq is on schedule as Obama promised in the Presidential campaign. I don&#039;t recall Obama ever promising withdrawal from Afghanistan until the job is done.

&quot;President Barack Obama, whose star is sadly waning as election promises go unfulfilled has an $85 billion healthcare bill to operationalise.&quot; There are several versions of healthcare legislation currently pending. The cost of these range from $800 billion to 1.2 Trillion US dollars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, however you got some of your facts wrong:</p>
<p>&#8220;10.6% of the US’s 250 million people and three million out of work&#8221; &#8211; The US population is closer to 350 million and the unemployment rate is 10.2%, not 10.6%.</p>
<p>&#8220;During his election campaign (Obama), he promised to pull troops out of Iran and Afghanistan and to close Guantanamo Bay, but the man who is this year’s Nobel Peace Prize winner has fulfilled none of those campaign promises&#8221; &#8211; The withdrawal from Iraq is on schedule as Obama promised in the Presidential campaign. I don&#8217;t recall Obama ever promising withdrawal from Afghanistan until the job is done.</p>
<p>&#8220;President Barack Obama, whose star is sadly waning as election promises go unfulfilled has an $85 billion healthcare bill to operationalise.&#8221; There are several versions of healthcare legislation currently pending. The cost of these range from $800 billion to 1.2 Trillion US dollars.</p>
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		<title>By: Blip</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100766</link>
		<dc:creator>Blip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/#comment-100766</guid>
		<description>Five years after being utterly nuked to submission was all the Japanese needed to rebuild itself into not only being the biggest, richest regional economy in Asia but the second-biggest, second-richest economy on the whole earth.

Five years is all it took for West Germany, bombed to rubble almost in its entirety and split asunder, to become the biggest, richest, most prosperous economy in Europe.

Five years.

Not fifteen and counting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five years after being utterly nuked to submission was all the Japanese needed to rebuild itself into not only being the biggest, richest regional economy in Asia but the second-biggest, second-richest economy on the whole earth.</p>
<p>Five years is all it took for West Germany, bombed to rubble almost in its entirety and split asunder, to become the biggest, richest, most prosperous economy in Europe.</p>
<p>Five years.</p>
<p>Not fifteen and counting.</p>
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		<title>By: nguni</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100761</link>
		<dc:creator>nguni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You&#039;re right on most points Charlene, just on the Russia/Iran story you are not: the Ruskies are more reliable as far as nuclear materials go, there is no muslim fanatacism there to blur judgments when it comes to the crunch..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right on most points Charlene, just on the Russia/Iran story you are not: the Ruskies are more reliable as far as nuclear materials go, there is no muslim fanatacism there to blur judgments when it comes to the crunch..</p>
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		<title>By: ian shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100760</link>
		<dc:creator>ian shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/#comment-100760</guid>
		<description>&quot;You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.&quot; 

 

          Adrian Rogers, 1931 
 
 

 

 
&quot;You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.&quot; 

 

          Adrian Rogers, 1931 
 
 

 

 You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.&#8221; </p>
<p>          Adrian Rogers, 1931 </p>
<p>&#8220;You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.&#8221; </p>
<p>          Adrian Rogers, 1931 </p>
<p> You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-100759</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2009/11/09/ignoring-the-math-political-folly-from-the-us-to-south-africa/#comment-100759</guid>
		<description>Seems the information is all reasonably valid and it is probably true that everyone who buys things is likely to pay VAT. It is also probable that more than half of those taxpayers [individual] to whom you refer are probably black and feeling the effects of progressive tax limiting upward mobility to anyone reasonably honest. 

Think of us all as turtles being slowly cooked in water that gradually gets hotter and hotter and that we are somewhere on the increasingly hot end of the heating scale right now.
Since the system is inherently unsustainable, and within your 8 year period of grace the economy drifts about in a probable state of stagflation the outcome is likely to be hugely unpleasant... 

The probability is that some fall guy will be needed to compensate those who have grown used to looting the State and as the funds run dry as they seem to be doing then kaboom... someone has to suffer the consequences... The 60,000 dollar question is WHO? 

The curious fate of the well-known liberation activist &amp; sympathiser BG... late of Escom... rather hints at what happens when the back is against the wall... This reflexive labeling response more than hints at the probable outcome when ordinary people reach the ends of their tether... as Socrates observed &quot;ordinary people would put a man to death and bring him back to life again, if they could, with equal indifference to reason [ref Crito... Plato]

Roll on Armageddon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems the information is all reasonably valid and it is probably true that everyone who buys things is likely to pay VAT. It is also probable that more than half of those taxpayers [individual] to whom you refer are probably black and feeling the effects of progressive tax limiting upward mobility to anyone reasonably honest. </p>
<p>Think of us all as turtles being slowly cooked in water that gradually gets hotter and hotter and that we are somewhere on the increasingly hot end of the heating scale right now.<br />
Since the system is inherently unsustainable, and within your 8 year period of grace the economy drifts about in a probable state of stagflation the outcome is likely to be hugely unpleasant&#8230; </p>
<p>The probability is that some fall guy will be needed to compensate those who have grown used to looting the State and as the funds run dry as they seem to be doing then kaboom&#8230; someone has to suffer the consequences&#8230; The 60,000 dollar question is WHO? </p>
<p>The curious fate of the well-known liberation activist &amp; sympathiser BG&#8230; late of Escom&#8230; rather hints at what happens when the back is against the wall&#8230; This reflexive labeling response more than hints at the probable outcome when ordinary people reach the ends of their tether&#8230; as Socrates observed &#8220;ordinary people would put a man to death and bring him back to life again, if they could, with equal indifference to reason [ref Crito... Plato]</p>
<p>Roll on Armageddon</p>
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